User talk:Susan Irish


Mansells [28 December 2009]

Hi Susan,

I'm finally able to get back to the Mansell line. I'm descended from Elizabeth Mansell's daughter, Mary Mansell. I believe Mary was illegitimate, but have no way to prove it. The birth registry lists John Thomas as the father, and his occupation as "fitter upper" Elizabeth and John were not living together in the 1841 census, and Mary's name is given as Mary Mansell. Elizabeth later married John Williams, and this caused us no end of confusion as Mary sometimes put Williams in her name and other times didn't.

Anyway, I see that you kindly put up the information from a church record cd. Would you mind sending me an exact transcript plus the title of the cd to me for all the Mansell records you put online? I would really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Margaret Rutledge (Mitzy Moo)--Mitzymoo 19:58, 27 December 2009 (EST)

Large-scale clean-up of colonial lines [11 January 2010]

Hi, Susan--- This is just in the way of a heads-up. I've been putting off uploading my last GEDCOM because it's all colonial (Mass/Conn & Dutch) and I knew there would be a lot of overlap with existing pages. But I finally took a deep breath the other day and did it. Now I'm beginning to go through that 1,200+ people in FTE, cleaning up each page in turn. (I've done that with every GEDCOM I've uploaded, which is why it takes me awhile. I hate drive-by GEDCOM-ing.) My watchlist this morning shows a bunch of pages you've already begun working on, too, of some people we have in common, so I just wanted to let you know it's only just begun, and where all that stuff is coming from all of a sudden. I'm also taking the opportunity to match-and-merge all those multiple Person & Family pages that keep showing up on the search results list, esp for the New Netherlands folks. I'm not in a hurry, so you'll probably have an enlarged watchlist for awhile. And, of course, feel free to keep right on doing what you're doing. Maybe together we can bring some sort of order to this chaos. . . . --Mike 12:48, 1 January 2010 (EST)

Thanks Mike for the "heads-up" I had noticed that we have a common interest in a number of families. --Susan Irish 16:29, 1 January 2010 (EST)
I'm researching colonial New England, too-- mostly Massachusetts with some Connecticut. I haven't seen any cross over of your pages (both of you) with mine just yet, but I'm glad to know that this is going on in the background. Jillaine 19:20, 1 January 2010 (EST)
UPDATE: I am now noticing the cross over with both of you. You're showing up on my watchlist now. Susan, I have a request: would you please use the Edit Summary when you make changes? My watchlist is huge and it helps when scanning to read the Edit Summary. Thanks! Jillaine 10:29, 11 January 2010 (EST)

Mary Stream citations [16 January 2010]

Hi Susan,

What a coincidence that we're citing the same person today. I'm sitting here with copies of 'The Baldwin Genealogy 1500 to 1881' trying to clean up and add info on the BALDWINs. --Neal Gardner 15:28, 16 January 2010 (EST)

Solomon Baker [1 May 2010]

Hi Susan

I have been trying to find the parents of Solomon Baker, b 1750 (RI), m Lydia Kenyon 1770, Richmond, RI.

I do have a Solomon Baker b 1750 in Beekman, NY, son of John Baker and Elizabeth Adams.

Also, I have the Trial of Solomon for Treason, Hung in Poughkeepse NY 1783, for Treason.

Do you have anything in your files that could help sort these guys out?

Thanks Bonnie (Baker) Weber--Bboops 08:38, 1 May 2010 (EDT)

Change of birth of Sarah Currier [19 May 2010]

Hi Susan,

The birthdate for Sarah Currier of "Aft 1685" does not fit with a marriage date of 1689 and the birth of their only child Hope Rogers in 1690. Where did this information come from ? --Neal Gardner 09:38, 19 May 2010 (EDT)

Henry Flannery and Alice Booth - Aunt Ida, Margeret, Harry, etc. [25 May 2010]

--Vanbookie 11:51, 25 May 2010 (EDT) Susan,

I am another Kirlin related to Henry Flannery via Harry Foster, my great-grandfather. Are you working directly with the Kirlin line. I am working on that direct line.

I've been thru Henry Flannery's farmhouse several times now and in Douglassville several times.

George Kirlin

ROSSER [8 September 2010]

Hi Susan My name is Tony Rosser and I have research on the same Rosser's you have recorded in a big tree.

Be interested to hear from you.

Kind Regards Tony Rosser

Website.... 04:48, 28 July 2010 (EDT)

Susan, I see you deleted abt from the birthdate for Frances Foote. Do you have information on her specific birth year, or was the deletion accidental?--Scot 17:57, 8 September 2010 (EDT)

Kingdom of England [9 September 2010]

This bogus placename is the result of a GEDCOM upload by user DonEThom. I got a couple of dozen notices of page edits by him that consisted solely of replacing Place:England with Place:Kingdom of England. When I looked at the current page, it seemed they were redirecting back to Place:England.--Scot 10:59, 9 September 2010 (EDT)

McClare and Winthrope [13 September 2010]


How are you connected to the McClare family? I have done a full history on them.

Gail--Tjemcee 08:55, 13 September 2010 (EDT)

Sherman/Shearman [24 September 2010]

I added Shearman as a related name to Surname:Sherman. It may take a couple of hours but searching should soon work with either form. Of course, it doesn't hurt to add it explicitly, though, anybody that does any research on Shermans should already be aware that this was a common spelling variant. --Jrich 12:48, 24 September 2010 (EDT)

David Lee Moore [20 October 2010]

I noticed your revision on David Lee Moore, adding his Date of death. I've been told that there was an OBIT in the paper and wondered if yu had that OBIT. If so, May I have a copy of it?


Jim--Tarbet 17:25, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Newtons [21 October 2010]

Susan, You have obviously been around this WIKI long enough to know what you're doing. I'm new to it. Could you explain what's going on with the gedcom I uploaded on the Newton's, and what am I supposed to do with all the changes that are happening?

Thank you for your help

Jim--Tarbet 05:35, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

Lewis [18 December 2010]

I noticed you were doing "cleanup." Am I doing something creating problems?--frothingham 17:10, 18 December 2010 (EST)

Mary Bunker [20 December 2010]

There is no real evidence that Person:Mary Bunker (7) was born in Nantucket, since her birth is just listed in William C. Folger's records, and not in the actual town records. Further, stories about her father suggest the family was living in Topsfield at the time she would have been born. Source:Sinnott, Mary Elizabeth. Annals of the Sinnott, Rogers, Coffin, Corlies, Reeves, Bodine and Allied Families (on, p. 73, says Mary's father's probate files in Essex County list among the children Mary age 6 as well as Elizabeth, William, Ann, and Martha. Now, Newburyport is not Topsfield, but I have not found her birth listed in either place so never bothered to change it, being at least the right county. Perhaps it should just say Essex, Massachusetts, United States? --Jrich 09:59, 20 December 2010 (EST)

Good point. Perhaps it is best not to add location to the name pages for people from the Nantucket Vital Records who only have PR38 as a source until more family information is located. --Susan Irish 13:09, 20 December 2010 (EST)

Thank you - Civil War veterans categories [9 April 2011]

Hi Susan! I just saw that you added some of the new Civil War veterans categories. Thank you! I'm sure that this will greatly aid people who are researching CW vets, especially if they're looking for those from a specific unit. If you don't mind me asking, how did you find them so quickly? We just started adding them this morning.-- Amy (Ajcrow) 14:43, 9 April 2011 (EDT)

6th Michigan Cavalry Regiment - Civil War [11 April 2011]

George Washington Alford was in Company D of the 6th Michigan Infantry Regiment; he enlisted on 20 Aug 1861 and died at Baton Rouge, LA, from wounds he received in action at the Battle of Port Hudson on 28 July 1863. Aged 29. He is buried in the Baton Rouge National Cemetery, the original one in the city. His name is misspelled there: Alfred.

Sorry, I don't know how to insert this information into the "Category" you created for this regiment.

Regards, James Gunn--Gunnj 21:33, 10 April 2011 (EDT)

Thanks again [21 April 2011]

Hi, Susan. I saw that you're adding the "new" version of the Civil War categories. Thank you! Sorry for any confusion. It wasn't until we started the categories that we realized we were going to run into trouble if we started similar categories for the Mexican-American War or the Spanish-American War, as all 3 wars named the regiments in the same style. Hence, we needed to specify which war we were talking about. Wish we would have thought about that before we started adding the categories :-) -- Amy (Ajcrow) 16:16, 21 April 2011 (EDT)

Harkness [16 June 2011]

Hey Susan, I'm very new to this (today) so forgive me if this sounds like a dumb question. But I was wondering how you got all of the information you put up on the family of James Harkness and his son John Harkness? Some of the info you had I haven't been able to find, but then a lot of it isn't filled out. So I guess, I was wondering if you are related to the Harkness' or how you came across the info. Thank you.--JWashington 01:12, 16 June 2011 (EDT)

Elizabeth Dewey (1) & (10) [21 June 2011]

Hi Susan,

I see you merged Elizabeth DEWEY (10) with Elizabeth Dewey (1) which proposes that Elizabeth gave birth to a WEBSTER child in the middle of having a dozen NOBLE children. A little farfetched ? Any backup for this ? Who has the incorrect Elizabeth DEWEY ? Cordially..--Neal Gardner 13:28, 21 June 2011 (EDT)

I suspect I would have done the same merge. You had two Elizabeth Dewey pages with the exact same birth and death dates. Separate marriages to be sure, but one had no date, so the overlap wasn't obvious. It could have been two marriages of the same person. Neither page added the extra little help that a source citation can give. Thinking through how the merge process works, the 10 Noble kids would fill up one column and the Webster kid would be way at the bottom because he did not match. So it would have been far from obvious that it didn't mean the same person, especially given how often pages are entered into WeRelate straight from AFNs or Ancestry trees and include such errors. --Jrich 19:20, 21 June 2011 (EDT)

Klaas Bakker [16 July 2011]

Hi Susan, I noticed the conversation on Lena Denadel's page about cremation and burial information being combined on Find A Grave. I am wondering if this might also apply to your edits on Klaas Bakker's page. You recorded that Klaas was buried as Gerrit Klaas Bakker in Monumenta Cemetery, but Find A Grave has a photo of his gravestone in Montana (as well as an empty listing in Washington). --Jennifer (JBS66) 05:57, 16 July 2011 (EDT)

Margaret Hubbard [26 July 2011]

You just wiped out a half hour of work removing caps.--jaques1724 00:05, 26 July 2011 (EDT)

Charles Morris-White [21 August 2011]

The Van-Fraser Heritage Club is an association of long-service and retired Canada Post employees in the Vancouver area. One of our goals is to honour the memory of those Canada Post employees who served in the Canadian Armed Forces in WWI and WWII.

In the Autumn of 2009 workmen, conducting renovations in the Main Lobby of the Vancouver Post Office, located a plaque honouring Vancouver Post Office employees who had volunteered for service in WWI and WWII and were killed. One of the names on the plaque was Charles Morris-White who was a Letter Carrier at the time of his enlisment. He served as a driver in the 1st Brigade, Canadian Garrison Artillery.

On November 10, 2010 the plaque was rededicated by the Regional General Manager, Mike Shearon and Lt. Col. Acconci, Deputy Commander, 39th Brigade, Canadian Army.

Our research has determine he was survived by a son, Thomas Charles Morris White of Vancouver, who died July 17, 1985. We are attempting to locate further family members.

If you would like any additional information or have any you may be able to share with us please contact us at

Jim Bain Van Fraser Heritage Club--Vanfrasernews 12:13, 21 August 2011 (EDT)

Sylvia Mansfield [31 August 2011]

Hi ...I was so happy to find the pictures of my great-great Grandmother Sylvia Mansfield. I was able to visit her grave in July of 2011. What is your interest in her?

Thanks, Mary Balow--Chatfield 21:15, 30 August 2011 (EDT)

Sylvia... [1 September 2011]

Hi Susan.. Thank you so very much for writing back so quickly. Did you post all the Pattridge pictures that are found on here? They are amazing.

So, you are descendant from Sylvia's son Albert, well, I am descendant from Sylvia's daughter, Caroline Pattridge Heydon. Caroline married my great-grandpa- Horatio H. Heydon and they lived in Chatfield MN. They had a son Claude, my grandfather, and Claude and Rose had my dad, Morris Heydon. All of those folks are buried in Chatfield MN.

This summer my sis and I went to "Grandma" Sylvia's grave. I have photos of all of the grave stones that we found there. They include Sylvia's sister Achsabell.

Where do you live? I moved from MN in 2003 to NC. However, all of my roots are in Minnesota.

THanks again for writing. Would love to collaborate. My regular email is: 20:29, 31 August 2011 (EDT)

Patrollers group [12 September 2011]

Hi Susan, your user rights have been updated and you are now in the "Patrollers" Group. There is a bit more information about this here. To have your edits automatically marked as patrolled, please go to Settings>Editing and check "Mark edits I make as patrolled". Let me know if you have any questions, --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:25, 12 September 2011 (EDT)

Horatio Heydon [24 October 2011]

Hi Susan.

Have been trying to remember something about Chatfield MN and my great grandpa Horatio Heydon. He was one of the mayors of Chatfield. They have a history museum there with donated items as well as portraits of the former mayors. That is where I've seen a picture of Horatio.

Hope you are well, Mary Heydon Balow--Chatfield 20:33, 23 October 2011 (EDT)

Jedediah Irish [3 November 2011]

Hi - Just trying to figure out all this genealogy stuff, but if I am doing it correctly (which I believe I am), Jedediah Irish born 1688 was my grandfather (x9)--Tbw10567 15:05, 3 November 2011 (EDT)

Osborne [18 November 2011]

Why are you changing details on my family tree--Spookie121 15:52, 18 November 2011 (EST)

Montagu Obituary Transcription [24 November 2011]

Saw the image you added and took advantage of it, as I've been looking for an opportunity to create a "good" example of how to handle an obituary transcript. Would appreciate your thoughts, I've started the discussion at [1]. Thanks!--jrm03063 15:34, 24 November 2011 (EST)

Keyes' [31 December 2011]

Hi Susan, I have just found your information on we relate. John Keyes is my ggg grandfather. I have a feeling we may have contacted each other before?! I have some additional information if you wanted it. How are you connected?

Dona Keyes

PS: sorry email sounds a bit disconnected - trying to multi task!--Dona Keyes 20:50, 30 December 2011 (EST)

Keyes' [9 January 2012]

Hi - thanks. It was just that your name was a Watcher on the Keyes page. Do you how to find out who put the information on? I noticed it was also connected to the Rogers that are also in my tree?

thanks Dona Keyes--Dona Keyes 04:40, 9 January 2012 (EST)

Lucy Hannah Unknown [11 January 2012]

Hello, Susan! Thank you for tidying up Lucy Hannah Unknown and her family the other day. Did you see the question I asked on the talk page? Do you have any info, or were you just tidying up in general? (There's still a lot of tidying up to be done in the New Amsterdam families like the Quicks, I'm sure.) BTW, where piped places existed which omitted the "United States" for events before 1776, I had been leaving them. Which is why that one was there. --Pkeegstra 09:32, 11 January 2012 (EST)

Tjoelkers in Whatcom County [18 January 2012]


Many thanks for all the help with the Tjoelkers so far! I found 3 more children for Charles/Tije and Antje/Anne Tjoelker, but since they were born after 1900 the system won't let me add them without a death date. By any chance, do you have death dates for Bessie (b 1905), Martje/Martha (b. 1911), or Edna (b. 1921)? --Pkeegstra 09:47, 15 January 2012 (EST)

Did Martha marry her brother-in-law's nephew? This page for her brother-in-law's brother mentions a son Nicholas who was born in California and dies in Lansing, MI. Is that Martha's husband? --Pkeegstra 16:37, 17 January 2012 (EST)

I made pages for both of the Nicholas Roordas (Nicholas Roorda (1913-2000) and Nicholas Roorda (1924-1982)) but haven't linked either with Martha for now. But the younger one would be kinda young to be marrying in 1936, right? --Pkeegstra 12:36, 18 January 2012 (EST)

Since Nicholas Roorda (1913-2000) died in the same city as Martha I think he was her husband. --Susan Irish 13:39, 18 January 2012 (EST)
The combination of the two pieces of evidence sounds good to me. I just made the link. Thanks! --Pkeegstra 14:40, 18 January 2012 (EST)

Lincolns in Thurston County [19 January 2012]

That's an amazing find! I was a bit skeptical how my girlfriend's great-great-aunt got from Wiscasset, Maine literally to the other side of the country, but it's all explained here, along with a pair of Mary's brothers who match identically the Lincoln family Bible. (Are there Washington State burials for Foster and Nathaniel?)

BTW, interesting that the Crosbys have a Chillingsworth Foster connection, since so do the Lincolns. (And I think I was misreading the father Nathaniel Foster as the first spouse and getting confused that he married Mary Lincoln while Ruby Foster was still alive.) --Pkeegstra 09:38, 19 January 2012 (EST)

BTW, FindAGrave records that the death of Nathaniel Crosby in Hong Kong happened 17 Dec 1856. --Pkeegstra 15:55, 19 January 2012 (EST)

Simeon Williams [19 January 2012]

Hi Susan I am new to Werelate and still figuring out what's what. I would love to share info about Simeon Williams, son of Samuel and Lois Allyn Williams. I have lots on his descendants but struggling to find the maiden name of his wife. Kate--K8renn 15:42, 19 January 2012 (EST)

Hello Kate, For some reason your "talk page" is not accessible which is where I would be responding to you. I was doing "clean up" on the GEDCOM uploaded by genealogist84 who is no longer active on WeRelate. Please do add additional information on the families.--Susan Irish 16:31, 19 January 2012 (EST)

Charles C. Grinnell [22 January 2012]


First time using this site but had some discrepencies with some of this info. Charles C. Grinnell's (24 nov 1857) oldest daughter was my great grandmother Alice Grinnell Hanson Laird. I knew her as a young boy. In the 1900 census I find his wife Delia living with her children (except Alice, who had just married) at 248 silver st in Boston. In the same apt were her parents John and Ellen Leahon (age 69 and 65). I have their marriage certificate and a small photo of Ellen.

This website shows Delia's maiden name as Lane, yet her parents were Leahon and she was born after they were married. It also shows Delias parents as John and Mary.

Can you help straighten this out? There was a story from my grandmother years ago that her family traced back to a bridget Lane from Ireland. My grandmother is long gone (Edna Hanson Sawyer...Alice's older daughter) and we have no other info on this.

Thank you, Drew Sawyer--Drew Sawyer 13:50, 22 January 2012 (EST)

Hello Drew, For some reason your "talk page" is not accessible which is where I would be responding to you. Please contact the Admin. who assisted you in joining WeRelate to solve this problem. Thanks, --Susan Irish 15:02, 22 January 2012 (EST)
Drew's talk page is accessible, it's just that nobody has welcomed him yet so there are no entries (hence the red-link). A message can still be left on the talk page by clicking on Add topic. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:08, 22 January 2012 (EST)

Charles Grinnell [23 January 2012]

Hi Susan,

I hope you can respond to me on this now. Charles Grinnell was my great great grandfather. His oldest daughter, Alice May was my greatgrandmother and I knew her when I was a child. The 1900 census shows Charles' wife Delia living at 248 Sliver street Boston along with her daughters and son (Except Alice whom had just married Albert Hanson)and her (Delia's) parents John and Ellen Leahon. I have John and Ellen's marriage cert and a photo of Ellen. However your sight shows Delia's maiden name as Lane, our records show as Leahon. Any idea why the difference? A story that came down thru Edna Sawyer (Alice's oldest grandmother) was thet her family came down from a Bridget Lane of Ireland. Now I am confused! Any ideas? Drew Sawyer Sawyer 13:51, 23 January 2012 (EST)

As a watcher of Susan's page (our research area overlap somewhat), I saw your first post and checked the source that was cited on the page Family:Charles Grinnell and Delia Lane (1), which is Source:Massachusetts, United States. Vital Records, 1841–1910. What is posted in WeRelate reflects what is found on the scanned record of marriages in the town of Boston for 1879. Note: this source is a series of scanned images of records housed at the Massachusetts State Archives, viewable as part of the website. From the description: "records were originally kept at the town level and a copy was sent to the state." Apparently, whether intentionally or not, her name was recorded as "Lane", and the parents are listed as "John and Mary". Of course any single record can always be wrong, which is why collaboration in WeRelate holds so much promise. It sounds like you have documents to show this is in error (i.e., that Ellen is not a second wife), so they need to be cited and the data updated. Presumably the page would be renamed, but if so, I would think Delia Lane should be left as an alternate name to retain its findability for others who may not be aware of the other sources. --Jrich 14:37, 23 January 2012 (EST)
The same source (p. 143:55) lists the birth on 16 Sep 1861, in Boston, of "Elzrie Leahon", a female, to parents John and Ellen. The residence of parents is listed as "Athens", occupation of father is laborer, and birthplace of both parents is Ireland. Could be what the E. in Delia E. Lane stands for? --Jrich 14:55, 23 January 2012 (EST)

Speedy delete [23 January 2012]

Hi, first thanks for all your efforts at WR. It is greatly appreciated. Two things--you put a number of pages into speedy delete as living people. 1) Would you please note in the explanation field why you believe these people are living. 2) It would save me a lot of time if you would put the date you mark the page for speedy delete in the explanation field. I have to give people a few days to respond before I delete the pages. Soooo, I have to check the history for each and every page before I can delete it unless that info is in the notice. Thanks so much, --sq 18:46, 23 January 2012 (EST)

Solveig and Susan, often, when users mark pages for SD, they mark only the Person page. However, I notice that both spouses of a family could be deleted, but their nearly empty family page will remain (for example Family:Unknown and Alma Unknown (1)). It's tough for the person working down the list of speedy deletes, because you aren't able to see the big picture of why a page was marked in the first place, if you're only able to look at the Person page. What I mean is, if you look at a page like Person:Lamont Unknown (1), you can't tell why they would have been placed in SD because the page for his mother has already been deleted. --Jennifer (JBS66) 19:08, 23 January 2012 (EST)

William L. & son John Queen Additional info. [20 February 2012]

Susan, I have added some census info and the SSDI info on these two people. You might be interested in this information after your recent changes. Jim--Tarbet 20:07, 19 February 2012 (EST)

Pilon in Whatcom County [8 March 2012]

Hi, Susan! Bensinnema just drew attention to the Pilon family in Whatcom County. Could we perhaps get you interested in helping out trying to characterize the Netherlands-born Pilons I found in the 1930 census and listed on Ben's page. I remember you were extremely helpful with the Tjoelkers and the Lincolns. --Pkeegstra 11:51, 27 February 2012 (EST)

Hi, I find a short list of Pilon people buried in Monumenta Cemetery. The oldest members of the family appear to be Jacob J. Pilon b 23 Dec 1843 Stedum and wife Hilje Werkman b 28 Jun 1853. There is also a Gerrit J. T. Pilon b 1 Mar 1891 Dutch East Indies. --Susan Irish 13:34, 27 February 2012 (EST)
OK, those are definitely in the right ballpark. The first two already have pages, Jacob and Hilje/Hilda. HIlda is listed in the 1930 census. The Gerrit who has a WeRelate page looks to be someone different. --Pkeegstra 13:46, 27 February 2012 (EST)

Was Alice Pilon married to Klaas Boerhave(n)? He's the only older brother of Johannes, who married her sister Grietje. --Pkeegstra 20:59, 27 February 2012 (EST)

Alice's husband was called Nick Boerhave, b. 9 Feb 1874, son of Jan & Margaret (Hagen) Boerhave. --Susan Irish 21:53, 27 February 2012 (EST)
Yup. Nick == Klaas. Klaas is a traditional Dutch short form for Nicolaas. Thanks! And I see Minnie is a Boerhave too. --Pkeegstra 06:59, 28 February 2012 (EST)

I created the entire family for the Assinks and the Boerhave(n)s. Did the parents Boerhaven make it to Washington State? I didn't see death records for them in the Netherlands. I see from the 1900 and 1910 censuses that the parents Assink made it to Washignton State. Any chance you have marriage records for Nick and Alice and John and Dorothy? Thanks again for helping us out with this! --Pkeegstra 12:19, 28 February 2012 (EST)

I found a Michigan birth record for Gertie Hendriks to confirm the county. But I was pretty sure it wasn't the Allendale in Clare County, because there is negligible Dutch settlement up there. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a marriage record for Hiram (b.1850) and Hattie (b.1850). BTW, everyone but Gertie seems to use the 'c' in the last name, so I'll note it as an alternate. --Pkeegstra 16:23, 28 February 2012 (EST)

I couldn't find the Netherlands birth record for Thomas Heeringa, but I did find one for Gertie De Vries. I also found her first husband, Evert Jongedijk. The only Netherlands death record I could find looks like his first cousin a year younger, so did he die in Washington State? (Something funny: The mother of Gertie De Vries is Trijntje de Jong, the same name as my great-grandmother.) --Pkeegstra 06:49, 29 February 2012 (EST)

I found the marriage record for Christina Youngdyk and James De Bruyn. They were both born in Antrim County, and married there. The biggest oddity in the marriage record is that there is no Ellsworth Township in Antrim County, so that must be a typo for Ellsworth Village. (No Jacksonville anywhere to be seen, which is good, because there is Jackson, MI, but no Jacksonville.) --Pkeegstra 12:15, 29 February 2012 (EST)

Jennifer thinks she's found the death record for Sytske Sybesma, mother of Thomas Heeringa. Do you concur? --Pkeegstra 12:29, 29 February 2012 (EST)

I linked Clarence Haveman to his parents and added Albert Haveman because he was in the SSDI. I have 6 more daughters in that family I can't link to SSDI unless I know their married names. BTW, have you seen any Vander Werffs? That's the other Lynden family I'm related to. --Pkeegstra 07:54, 3 March 2012 (EST)

Two more daughters I found mentioned in Ruby's obit are Bertha, wife of Clarence Hawkinson, of Tacoma and Henrietta, wife of Richard Gering, of Vancouver, WA
As per the 1920 census (in Polk County, MN) Henrietta was born in 1920. If I call up the 1930 census (back in Whatcom County, WA) I see that Bertha was born after 1920, specifically in 1922. Not sure what happened to Anna, born in 1905. --Pkeegstra 19:01, 3 March 2012 (EST)
The Van der Werff names are: Aggie (De Vries), Albert, Jacob, Johan, Margaret (Kiel) and Roy. --Susan Irish 13:38, 3 March 2012 (EST)
I don't see them in Washington State in 1930. So I'll need to do a little bit of research. BTW, I see the latest spouse you've found is a Bode. I think my first cousin is married to one of them. Oh, and Gertrude Bode Hendricks isn't in SSDI as that, so either she doesn't make it to 1965-1970, or she remarries after her husband dies (Spanish flu?) in 1918. I wonder if my cousin would know. Ah, but it's not essential, since she was born more than 110 years ago so we don't need a death date "in hand". --Pkeegstra 19:31, 3 March 2012 (EST)

"I see a Richard Gering in 1920 living in Snohomish County, born 1918 (2y11m) in Idaho. Looks promising, but I don't see him in 1930, and that worries me. There is an SSDI record for Richard D Gering born 30 Jan 1917 died 22 Sep 1994, which is also promising. Is that good enough? --Pkeegstra 08:38, 4 March 2012 (EST)

The Richard D. who died in 1994 is probably the right one as Vancouver, WA is in Clark Co. --Susan Irish 13:10, 4 March 2012 (EST)

Looks like we both tried to create Adrian Jongeneel at the same time. I merged the two together. I was defeated in my attempt to track down a Netherlands birth record. The obvious record was from a child who had died a few months later. --Pkeegstra 17:30, 4 March 2012 (EST)

I just created a page for Rev. Abel Brink, first pastor of First CRC of Lynden, who apparently moved back to retire there. --Pkeegstra 18:02, 4 March 2012 (EST)

I added Eerke Eerkes, who is almost certainly the Ed Eerkes in the obituary of Geertje Boerhave(n). Is his wife Augusta (b.Apr 1863 in Netherlands) someone you've already done? (Not sure how Reinder Eerkes got to be E. Eerkes too; he's definitely Reinder and Geertje is definitely his wife in the 1910 census.) --Pkeegstra 09:46, 7 March 2012 (EST)

Oops, I guess Eerke wasn't Ed. But he definitely immigrated to Washington State with his wife Augusta. --Pkeegstra 16:01, 7 March 2012 (EST)

I started creating John Van Mersbergen's wife Pearl when I realized she's less than the 110 years of age threshold. She's not in SSDI or the Washington State Death Index. Is she in your burials collection? --Pkeegstra 16:01, 7 March 2012 (EST)

Wendelina Vrieling [8 March 2012]

To answer your question about the number of wives of Arend Brink, it looks like there was only one, but her name and the names of her parents were Americanized in a variety of creative ways. --Pkeegstra 13:42, 8 March 2012 (EST)

Whatcom County Places [8 March 2012]

For the Forest Grove, Whatcom, Washington place of death for Mary Kortlever, Google finds a point of interest Forest Grove Farm near Nooksack. We could define a place on that basis, I suppose. It's confusing, because there is a Forest Grove, Washington County, Oregon but that can't possibly be a place of death on a Washington State death certificate. --Pkeegstra 12:55, 6 March 2012 (EST)

Forest Grove was near Lynden. I believe it had it's own column in early Lynden newpapers. I also used Ten Mile as a location for another person. Ten Mile should have had its own place location as it was still a functioning community in 1900 between Bellingham and Lynden.--Susan Irish 13:13, 6 March 2012 (EST)
If you can give me approximate road intersections, I can make the places. (We can make a place even if it was a ghost town in 1900.) Forest Grove Farm is on the opposite side of Nooksack from Lynden. Am I looking for a place between Lynden and Nooksack then? Ten Mile Creek is on the other side of I-5 from Ferndale. Does that sound like the right direction? I like tracking down ghost towns in Michigan, but it's a bit harder in a county I've never visited. --Pkeegstra 13:37, 6 March 2012 (EST)
I will work on this later today - have to leave now. --Susan Irish 13:43, 6 March 2012 (EST)

Plan A didn't work for tracking these places down; they weren't former railroad stops listed on my Rail Atlas of all North American rail lines that ever existed. Plan B is to look at topo maps. I'll start by checking with my friend from church, the descendant of Vos and Tjoelker. If he doesn't have them, I'll use the free interface to Topozone. --Pkeegstra 09:46, 7 March 2012 (EST)

Forest Grove and Ten Mile are there now. Ten Mile was labelled on the topo map, but I had a bit less to go on for Forest Grove. I also did a bunch of towns along the defunct Milwaukee Road line. If there are more towns you have a need for, I'd be glad to have a look at them. I see a couple person pages need Licking, Whatcom, Washington, but that's not on your map or any of the other easy places for me to check. --Pkeegstra 16:47, 8 March 2012 (EST)--Pkeegstra 16:48, 8 March 2012 (EST)
This is funny -- I just spent 10 minutes trying to find your message about Licking and couldn't figure out why I couldn't find it -- now I see you moved it to a more logical place/sequence. In 1910 Licking was a precinct near Goshen. The old Licking Cemetery is now called Hopewell Cemetery which is very near Nooksack Cemetery. I see I forgot to change the link to the 1909 county map on my website and since those files are on a different computer I will have to make the correction later --Susan Irish 17:22, 8 March 2012 (EST)

Was Licking on Hopewell Road at the Northern Pacific tracks (now BNSF)? --Pkeegstra 17:38, 8 March 2012 (EST)

Sorry for confusing you by moving place discussions to their own section. I added Licking and put it on Hopewell Road at the tracks. If that's wrong, I can move it. Note that the topo map calls Hopewell Road Goodwin Road, and the southern extension of what is now called Goodwin Road it calls Stevens Road. --Pkeegstra 18:05, 8 March 2012 (EST)

More Whatcom County Dutch Families [16 March 2012]

I saw some Noteboom and Polinder spouses. Those are families I'm interested in. I'll see if I can find when they left Netherlands. I still owe you to learn when the Vander Werffs came to Whatcom County. Also, I think I found the ancestors of all the West Michigan Holtrops, and saw some Whatcom County Holtrops and wondered if they were also from them. Also, did you give me everything you know about Benjamin Oosterbaan? I'd still like to track him down. --Pkeegstra 10:49, 15 March 2012 (EDT)

Oosterbaan's name was not found in the Coroner's Report although there were reports of people who died in the woods and in sawmill accidents. He would have been one of the very early burials in Monumenta Cemetery as the land for the cemetery was purchased in 1902 and had to be cleared of stumps. He is the only person of that surname buried in Whatcom County.
The earliest Holtrop appears to be John b. 10 Apr 1863; father Ralph; mother Trientje Van Loo.
OK, that is a different Holtrop line, but I have it in front of me now, so I can add pages for them. --Pkeegstra 14:21, 15 March 2012 (EDT)

I found a John and Annie Oosterbaan living in 1900 in Antrim County, Michigan. They were married in Netherlands in 1878. Her mother was a Westra, so she may be related to me. They had a son Menne Jans born 31 Dec 1879 and a daughter Anna born 1881 in the Netherlands. (n.b. the 1990 census has her birthplace wrong.) Any idea whether that's our Benjamin, and if so, how to demonstrate the connection? --Pkeegstra 11:24, 15 March 2012 (EDT)

Those Westras don't seem to be related to me, but Menne does seem to be a good fit for Benjamin. --Pkeegstra 14:21, 15 March 2012 (EDT)
The first family of Polinders shows up in Whatcom County in 1910. (I'll create the parents and see how many of the children meet the 110 year old cutoff.) I created the whole family of Holtrop and Van Loo in case any more of them show up in Washington State. --Pkeegstra 16:21, 15 March 2012 (EDT)

Waupun. I know the town well. My Dad used to have to preach there when they didn't have a minister, so he'd take all of us along. The City of Waupun is on the county line. But then, just to confuse us, there is also a Town of Waupun. I'd say go with the city unless otherwise specified. The city should have an "also located in" for the other county and the town should say "(town)", I think.... (I don't have that kind of map for Wisconsin, but I'd guess that the Town is what was left of the township which contained the city and it incorporated to keep the city from annexing anything more.) --Pkeegstra 07:10, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

Nice cleanup [22 March 2012]

on Family:Joseph Lovell and Ruth Richards (2). I can't believe I left that. I must have still been in my "these-people-must-know-what-they-are-doing phase". --Jrich 09:49, 22 March 2012 (EDT)

Mullins family [23 March 2012]

Susan, I see that you have made some corrections to the Mullins file. I would be interested in knowing where you are in the family. My line is me, Ralph Z. Mullins, William H. Mullins, Thomas Jefferson Mullins, John W. Mullins, Green B. Mullins, John Mullins, Thomas Mullins.

Graham K. Mullins 15:35, 23 March 2012 (EDT)

Graham, not sure which edits you are referring to. I am doing "clean up" on person and family pages as I find them -- such as removing "all caps" and question marks in name fields, etc. per WeRelate guidelines. --Susan Irish 18:10, 23 March 2012 (EDT)

Charter Members of First CRC, Lynden [22 April 2012]


I just received a list of the 14 families which were charter members of First CRC, Lynden, Washington. Many of the names look very familiar.; I suspect we have already captured most of them. The list is here in my MySource namespace, but I encourage the WeRelate community to help me complete this. --Pkeegstra 20:41, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

Hi, I added Douwe J. Zylstra. I have a John Derks Helder d. 10 Sep 1906 ae 60; wife Trintje -- could be Jan D. Helder in your list. If you think this is the correct person I will make the pages for him and wife. --Susan Irish 21:17, 21 April 2012 (EDT)
That looks promising; that's a common Americanization. --Pkeegstra 21:41, 21 April 2012 (EDT)
also see a Fred Bierlink d. 1907 ae 61; wife Johanna b. Germany.--Susan Irish 21:38, 21 April 2012 (EDT)
That looks promising, too. --Pkeegstra 21:55, 21 April 2012 (EDT)
I think Peter Dykstra is probably the half-brother of Tjitske Dijkstra. --Pkeegstra 21:42, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

Hints for the Origin of Florence Gertie Vander Meulen [25 April 2012]

I have been trying to track down Fred Stremler's wife Florence Gertie Vander Meulen in the Netherlands with no luck. GENLIAS knows of 250+ van der Meulens born from 1877-1879, and does not show the birth day unless you open each record. Neither AlleGroningers nor AlleFriezen show anyone likely looking with birthdays on either 7 Mar or 7 May. (There was one Maria, I recall.) So just a little hint would go a long way. --Pkeegstra 07:15, 23 April 2012 (EDT)

I believe this is her. Here is the marriage record for Fred & Gertie/Florence. --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:05, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
Aha. Dongeradeel is not yet in AlleFriezen, so I would not have caught that in my search of the list of van der Meulens sorted by date. And I didn't think to look for a marriage in Michigan because they were in Whatcom County by July, 1900. Many thanks for catching the clues I missed! --Pkeegstra 12:10, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
And that brings me back to where I started. Florence Gertie Vander Meulen's grandmother is Antje van der Woude, a relative of Trijntje van der Woude who was the first person outside my family I added to WeRelate to memorialize her after her untimely death from complications of pregnancy since I wasn't sure if she had family who would remember her. --Pkeegstra 12:54, 23 April 2012 (EDT)

I've found a whole bunch of Rozebooms who may have or did come to America, and am wondering how many of them made it to Whatcom County.

--Pkeegstra 12:29, 25 April 2012 (EDT)

Only Henry John Rozeboom b 13 Aug 1887 Sioux Center, IA
His father Jan Rozeboom comes from the Netherlands. As per 1900 census he was born Apr 1840. Which I am unable to match. I find a Groningen emigration record for a Jan Rozeboom born about 1844. Of which I have two (this and this), neither born in April.
I also have a Jannetje Hoksbergen. The name matches the marriage record, but the date matches neither that nor the Apr 1861 of the 1900 census.
I put Henry John Rozeboom into the system. Is his father already in the system?
I have added all I have for Henry John Rozeboom. I now see there was a George Rozeboom who married in 1940 who may still be living; wife Elizabeth (DeKoekkoek) died in 2007; she was from Edgerton, MN --Susan Irish 18:13, 25 April 2012 (EDT)

I added James Roosma the other day. I have more information about his mother and spouses but would like to get mother's maiden name correct before adding his parents. --Susan Irish 13:17, 25 April 2012 (EDT)

Susan, this may be James' birth info. The dates & surnames match up, but it's a little odd for Yde to be Americanized as William. --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:42, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
Unfortunately this link brings up an error message. --Susan Irish 15:59, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
Try this. I've seen Americanizations a lot more far-fetched than that one. And my gggf kept switching Americanized names like a fashion accessory. So he remains Metske to us. --Pkeegstra 16:12, 25 April 2012 (EDT)

Sipkje and Jacob Roosma [26 April 2012]

FYI, Jacob Roosma living with James and Sipkje in the 1910 census is listed as his cousin, but it's also her brother. (And I'm very interested in the van der Pol connection; my Dad's favorite uncle was married to a van der Pol.) --Pkeegstra 13:03, 26 April 2012 (EDT)

(But it looks like it's a different van der Pol. My Dad's aunt's line runs out at Durk Beerends van der Pol, this line at Jorke Klazes van der Pol.) --Pkeegstra 13:38, 26 April 2012 (EDT)

Jennie Bouwman [27 April 2012]

Something seems very odd about Jennie Bouwman. If she really is the child of Frank Bouwman and Grace De Vries, their marriage is easy to find and was in 1902. And they have a child Jeltje born in 1903 who would make a prime candidate to be Jennie. But that would mean that she has two husbands by age 14. --Pkeegstra 17:48, 26 April 2012 (EDT)

I have nothing else right now. Perhaps she was adopted.
She was his first child by his first wife, Aaffien Goed. And her birth record was not in GENLIAS, only in AlleGroningers. (So he had a Jentje and a Jeltje. Probably about as confusing as my ggm and her sister Harmke and Hinke, both Americanized to Hattie.) Oh, and Jeltje b. 1903 needs a death date before we can make a page for her. --Pkeegstra 21:03, 26 April 2012 (EDT)

On another topic, I have a record for Ouke Post d 1909 ae 84; could he be the father of Johannes Post? --Susan Irish 19:57, 26 April 2012 (EDT)

That looks about right. He was born in 1824. --Pkeegstra 21:03, 26 April 2012 (EDT)

Thomas Minor/Miner [1 May 2012]

Finished the father and the first son. Nine to go and three bogus children to deal with. You could at least let me get some sleep and finish the job later rather than reverting my changes out of hand.--jaques1724 03:48, 1 May 2012 (EDT)

Veleke [6 May 2012]

Any chance you have a hint for the parentage of Aart Veleke someplace? I have an 1831 Netherlands wedding of Gerrit Veleke, 25 and Bethje de Zwaan, 21 which is a promising candidate to be his parents. --Pkeegstra 13:25, 2 May 2012 (EDT)

--henk 15:19, 2 May 2012 (EDT)

Many thanks! That's great that that site gives us reasonable answers. But I'd be a lot happier if I could find documentation for Aart's birthplace and parentage from a source other than something traceable to OWT. Unfortunately, there are no filmed birth records from Ermelo for the relevant decades here. --Pkeegstra 17:50, 4 May 2012 (EDT)
I couldn't find any more information from home. There is probably an obit but I am not in a position to go look for it right now. No phone book listing for that surname. --Susan Irish 17:58, 4 May 2012 (EDT)

Here is some information from Streekarchivariaat Noordwest-Veluwe ( btw, there is a very helpful site for finding the smaller local archives that often have information that Genlias does not:

Veleke; Aart 
Ouders: Veleke, Gerrit en Zwaan, de Betje
Geboren: Ermelo 25-11-1845 Akte: 126

Aart Veleke (from Genlias)
Geslacht: M
Overlijdensdatum: 27-03-1846
Overlijdensplaats: Nunspeet (Ermelo) 

Veleke; Aart
Ouders: Veleke, Gerrit en Zwaan, de Betje
Geboren: Ermelo 19-09-1854 Akte: 92 
--Jennifer (JBS66) 02:34, 5 May 2012 (EDT)

Thank you so much! That's quite different from the Monumenta Cemetery birth date, but it looks like it's the right person. --Pkeegstra 20:10, 5 May 2012 (EDT)

Any Hints for Potgieter or Tap? [1 June 2012]

Susan, I am down to two remaining unidentified families in the First Lynden CRC charter members list. By any chance can you give me any sort of hint on them? I have sections set up for each on the talk page. --Pkeegstra 11:48, 1 June 2012 (EDT)

Dedham Vital Records [9 August 2012]

Wondering if you were really accessing the 1997 Robert Brand Hanson version or the much more widely available 1886 version edited by Don Gleason Hill. The reason for the question is that the page numbers you gave when sourcing the birth dates of four of the six younger children of Family:Robert Hinsdale and Ann Woodward (1) match the 1886 version. It could be a coincidence or just a slip of the mouse. Thanks--jaques1724 17:31, 9 August 2012 (EDT)

Hi, I was using the images of Dedham Vital Records 1635-1845 online at and down in the fine print it does say edited by Don Gleason Hill, 1886. I probably didn't notice there was more that one choice for Dedham Vital Records when I selected the source. Thanks for pointing that out. --Susan Irish 18:19, 9 August 2012 (EDT)
OK. I'll change any I run into. Thanks again1!--jaques1724 19:11, 9 August 2012 (EDT)

your recent chg to James Ireland [31 August 2012]

Hi Susan, Thanks for fixing the civil war citation for Person:James Ireland (8) but I'm wondering why you changed his birth location from Warren County, Ohio to Warren, Trumble County, Ohio. I don't see a source for that. Before I change my database, I thought I should check with you if you meant to make this change or perhaps it is one of those drop-down menu woops. --Janiejac 12:50, 31 August 2012 (EDT)

Sorry, I didn't mean to change location; probably removed data afer "|" Not making any excuses but am begining to find these drop-down menus getting "cluttered." --Susan Irish 13:30, 31 August 2012 (EDT)
I agree with you on that! Often the drop-down covers the search box making a search for what I've typed difficult - or worse, if I'm on a roll and going fast, it substitutes it's own notion of what I want; what I call 'a drop down woops'. I fixed James. --Janiejac 14:12, 31 August 2012 (EDT)

Barbour Collection and other vital records? [15 October 2012]

Hello - I have a question and hope you have some ideas.

I was wondering if there are any particularly good close-to-original ASCII transcriptions of New England vital records, that are in the public domain? I was thinking about what would be involved in bringing some of those transcription here - doing to them something like what I've been doing with Savage.

Thanks for any ideas... --jrm03063 18:30, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

Hi - I can't think of any right now. As you know many MA town vital records were published in book form and are out of copyright. NEHGS originally published many of them and has been scanning them and placing the images online. For CT the vital records were collected by Lucius Barbour - hence, the "Barbour Collection" which was microfilmed and made available to libraries many years ago. Now NEHGS has a printed version of this collection that they have scanned and placed online. Maine, Vermont & NH records are scattered "here and there" in town histories, etc. There is a central file of state vital records for VT in Montpelier, VT and for NH in Concord, NH which are now showing up at --Susan Irish 19:54, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

If people want to access transcriptions online, there are several such collections for some of the towns, but no complete ones covering everything. For Massachusetts the has provided transcriptions of many towns that are linked to scanned pages of the original document (for some towns they only provide an index, not a transcript). These are useful for searching, but I always attempt to create my abstracts from the scanned page because despite undoubted efforts to proof-read them carefully, the error rate in the transcripts is not negligible. It is really a finding aid,not a replacement for the published records. Source:Connecticut, United States. Barbour Collection of Connecticut Town Vital Records lists several towns in Connecticut with such transcriptions. I am less familiar with the error rate on these. Further, has several scanned vital records, and they have a OCR tool that would allow one to get a relatively good transcriptions (compared to other OCR engines), but still they are error-filled due to different type-faces, faded type, stray marks, and the OCR engine of Google removes all the punctuation because they intend to enable searching.

Undoubtedly the published vital records have errors, too, though it is doubtful that the general user reading original colonial handwriting could be given as much credence as the published vital records compiled by someone who might be considered an expert.

As Jaques1724 said, it might not be that useful. The sequential records are often not related to each other. Also the vital record has little context about a person, and it can be very difficult to take a vital record giving, say, a single date of birth, perhaps turning out to be a child that died 6 months later, and finding enough information to be sure you have linked it to the correct individual. I tried once starting at page 1 of Concord Births and it took weeks of research to finish working through the page.

The opposite approach, of knowing about a person, and trying to identify the specific vital record that describes them, and adding a transcription of that specific record to their page as part of a source citation, has been going on steadily all along. --Jrich 19:56, 15 October 2012 (EDT)

Deleting pages and user status [22 October 2012]

Hi Susan,

I've noticed that you do a great job of finding and marking living Person/Family pages for Speedy Delete. Members of the Speedy Delete patrol are discussing ways to streamline these efforts. I've suggested that we change your user rights to Admin. This would allow you to delete pages for living people without having to place them into Speedy Delete first. Is this something you might be interested in? Also, if you are interested, you may want to consider joining the Speedy Delete patrol since I believe your work in deleting living people would overlap with this group. --Jennifer (JBS66) 09:42, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

Hi Jennifer,
I have been cleaning up the categories where ? and ?? appear in name fields for the better part of 3 years. It is in this process that I have found a large number of abandoned GEDCOMs containing living persons and have been marking them for speedy delete. I appreciate your comments and would be interested in the ability to delete directly and save some one else the time and energy in completing the delete process. --Susan Irish 15:14, 22 October 2012 (EDT)
I've updated your user status which means you now have the ability to delete pages. If you have any questions at all, just let me know! --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:28, 22 October 2012 (EDT)

Caldcleugh [11 December 2012]

I'm new to WeRelate and I hope I've added details of Arthur Lewis who married Margaret Trenham Caldcleugh, (my 3rd great grandmother) correctly and without breaching any protocols. I have more information but thought I'd just try this before jumping in boots and all.--CJLWheeler 18:05, 11 December 2012 (EST)

probate files [21 December 2012]

Just fyi. You might have noticed I added 14 Sep 1759 to the text of source for Person:Consider Howland (7). I don't like to assume the death date will always say what it says now. This is particularly possible in this case, because it is an estimate, and could be refined. So then the source citation would be left without any date of when admin granted. --Jrich 20:57, 20 December 2012 (EST)

Good point -- Thank you--Susan Irish 21:58, 20 December 2012 (EST)

Pattridge [3 January 2013]

Hi. My name is Richard Oelkers. I am not a Pattridge descendant, (well, actually I am, but but probably not the same Pattridges). However, I have some photos and other information that are Pattridge related. This material once belonged to Sherman Wood, originally of Pleasant Grove, MN. His parents were Hiram Wood and Delia A. Pattridge. He and his wife, Clara Olive Wood, had one child, Hiram Wood. Hiram never married. When he died in 1964, my grandmother inherited his estate. I would like to share this information with anyone who is interested in it. Some of items I have include photos of Hiram, Sherman, Olive, and Vira Pattridge. One of the photos may be of George Pattridge and his wife, Mary Parks. I also have newspaper clipings of the George Pattridge death notice. Feel free to contact me at Oelkers45(at) Please replace the (at) with "@". (Done to foil spammers). Sincerely, Richard "Dick" Oelkers--Oelkers45 16:45, 3 January 2013 (EST)

Brick Wall [8 January 2013]

Hi Susan,

I'm hoping that we can feature the Family:Andrew Mott and Unknown (1) page for our next Brick Wall, but I'm wondering if you would be willing to create a talk page entry on that page, describing all of the places that you've already looked, what clues you have, etc.?

Thanks! -- Jdfoote1 23:01, 6 January 2013 (EST)

I don't have a research log that I can type from onto the talk page. This research was done onsite in Saratoga County and at the Family History Library before we all had computers and I had learned the value of documenting sources. I summarized my search efforts when I posted this family to the brick wall page. Days later I scanned the various documents I had collected and added them to the pages of the various family members. I will think more about what I could put on the talk page but I won't be able to do this tomorrow. --Susan Irish 23:37, 6 January 2013 (EST)
I think what we have now is good enough. If you have time to flesh it out sometime, that would be great. -- Jdfoote1 22:08, 7 January 2013 (EST)

Two John Greenes [16 January 2013]

Hi. I was wondering how you determined that Barbara Holden was married to Person:John Greene (89) instead of Person:John Greene (91) - the latter of which I just added. Both Johns are sons of Richard Greenes, but both Greenes of Rhode Island and Roger Williams Family Association match Person:John Greene (89) to Person:Mary Greene (89). Greenes of Rhode Island also matches Person:John Greene (91) with Barbara Holden. I haven't found vital records or wills to link the correct John to the correct spouse, but you seem to have better access and expertise for that sort of primary source. Let me know what you think. Thanks! Colby Farrington 01:29, 15 January 2013 (EST)

Hi, I changed the spouse of Barbara Holden to match the research of George Sears Greene. Arnold usually more clearly identified a father in a marriage record listing when there was more than one obvious choice, but not this time. This is not my line and I don't have any information to challenge the George Sears Greene conclusion; also I do not have all the published abstracts of Warwick probate records. Thanks for finding this error. --Susan Irish 21:51, 15 January 2013 (EST)

Jos Palmiter [19 January 2013]

Hi Susan, I see that you are watching Joseph Palmiter. Is he part of your family and if so do you know anything more about him that might connect him to David Palmiter. Thanks,--Sheri 16:21, 19 January 2013 (EST)

Person:Sarah Clarke (46) [1 February 2013]

Hello again. Sarah Clarke Greenman came up in conversation and I noticed her record here was added by you. Do you know if you had any sources for her? Thanks. Colby Farrington 09:29, 1 February 2013 (EST)

Hi, Sarah was the last daughter named in her father's will and called Sarah Greenman. --Susan Irish 13:33, 1 February 2013 (EST)
Okay, but any idea where the dates came from? Colby Farrington 14:11, 1 February 2013 (EST)
The dates may have been taken from Source:Morrison, George Austin. Clarke Genealogies--the "Clarke" Families of Rhode Island. I no longer have access to this book and I cannot verify them which is probably why I did not add a source. --Susan Irish 17:10, 1 February 2013 (EST)
Morrison is on if you have that. Doesn't seem to give any dates nor any events that would lead directly to those estimates (e.g., will of brother Jeremiah who d. 1752 doesn't mention a sister Sarah, no birth dates for any siblings, no marriage dates for the parents), but does present one important item: will of George Sisson of Portsmouth, proved 20 Sep 1718 mentions daughter Elizabeth Clarke and granddaughter Sarah Clarke. His conclusion then is that Sarah is the only child with wife Elizabeth, the other 4 belonging to second wife Deborah Peckham (daughter Deborah Clarke mentioned in will of William Peckham of Newport proved 1734). --Jrich 17:21, 1 February 2013 (EST)

need sources even for admin work [17 February 2013]

1709 was correct I believe, per sources I find. If there was is a source you consulted to say 1700, then both need to stay. --Jrich 10:09, 15 February 2013 (EST)

jrich, since you have access to a source supporting the 1709 date, I hope you'll add that information. Jillaine 10:27, 17 February 2013 (EST)
I did. Make sure you are looking at the current version. Person:Peter Tinkham (1). --Jrich 10:52, 17 February 2013 (EST)

Your usage of the RI Vital records [22 February 2013]

Hello Mrs. Irish,

Ive been going through a number of the pages in the Chase of Yarmouth line, many of whom later lived in RI, and a number of them you added a source from the various RI vital records that are scattered on the internet. But something confused me; on a number of them you leave a page number but no volume number so I have been unable to track where alot of them are. But I admit my working with the RI vital records is somewhat limited. Right now the example I am looking at is Family:James Chase and Huldah Winslow (1) and their marriage date, but there was many others.--Daniel Maxwell 01:50, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Hello Daniel,
The Rhode Island Vital Records by James N. Arnold consists of 21 volumes. The "Swansey Record of Friends" and other Quaker records are in Volume 7. There is a general index to the contents of each volume here [2]. Each collection within the volume has it's own numbering, so you will find page 23, for example, in several collections within each volume. So look for the title of the collection, "Swansey Record of Friends" which I include in my source citation. --Susan Irish 13:33, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Main Page [9 June 2013]

Just a note to say thanks for your edit to the Main Page. Regards, AndrewRT 18:05, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

Rosanna_Hill_(1) [7 September 2013]

Susan: Please take a look at the comments I have added to the following page and let me know your view on how the issue should be resolved: Thanks, Tbrady--Tbrady 16:30, 7 September 2013 (EDT)

Hi, I think you have made a good case for removing Rosanna Hill as the wife of Stukely Westcott and the mother of his children and I see no reason not to remove her as his spouse. Personally, I would like to see the films of registers for this parish and verify for myself that the births/baptisms of Robert Westcott and other children appear or not before merging the two lists of children. Without a reliable source for the birth/bapt. dates of his children I would be inclined to leave the two sets of children for now. Others watching this talk page may choose to offer another opinion. --Susan Irish 21:08, 7 September 2013 (EDT)
Sometimes, a short cut for getting the film is to check IGI on (the part that indexed films, not the user submitted stuff), but I search for various combinations, and I don't find either the marriage or the baptism of Damaris or of Samuel listed. Besides some general searches, specifically, a search of the catalog shows Yeovil, Somerset, England baptisms on film 1526122 (Bishop's transcripts of Yeovil, 1607-1861). A search of this film for the name Westcott, the spelling in the quoted baptism records, yields nothing pertinent (it does yield some results -54,838 of which 258 fall between 1619 and 1630), suggesting it may have been indexed). Of course, Bishop's Transcripts are probably copies, not originals --Jrich 22:49, 7 September 2013 (EDT)

Christening versus Baptism for Thomas Miner [3 October 2013]

I think the discussion for christening versus baptism as they apply to Thomas Miner is on DataAnalysts's page. So I'll add my two cents there. --Pkeegstra 13:17, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for Catching That for Maggie Dyk [10 November 2013]

Thanks for catching that I had the wrong marriage for the parents of Maggie Dyk. I see most of the Ancestry trees make the same mistake. Unfortunately, there are two obvious Sara Boer(s) in the Netherlands, but neither seem to match up, so tracking her down may prove to be a challenge. (But of course I love such challenges, even if sometimes I need to call in help.) --Pkeegstra 23:40, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Death Date for Jennie Brink [16 November 2013]

I've been doing the ancestors and half-siblings of Maggie Dyk (mentioned above), and I seem to have gotten stuck. Maggie's half-sister Jennie was the second wife of Peter Hoksbergen. My assumption is that that means he was widowed. But I cannot find a death record for his first wife, also named Jennie. Any ideas? (Please followup to Person talk:Jennie Brink (1).) --Pkeegstra 15:01, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

== Mary Ormsbee(Ormsby) [22 November 2013] ==3rd Wife of Abiah Carpenter who died 1732

Do you or anyone else have any info on who Mary was? My sister and I suspect she may have been a widow of an Ormsbee but have not been able to get a match in any of the old Rehoboth records. Some say she was the dau of Richard Ormesby who came from England about 1635 but we have never found he had a daughter Mary. Any ideas would be appreciated. We are desc from Richard and have most of his tree down to us but like everyone else are trying to tie up little loose ends. John Ormsby--JWOrmsby 04:44, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia [16 February 2014]

"At the present time I would NOT like to see WeRelate became a part of Wikipedia" - If you would, could you leave your thoughts on wikipedia at the 'Changes' page? Hopefully the word of admins will carry some weight.--Daniel Maxwell 02:03, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

This page here: Currently it seems pretty divided what it would mean but I do not think things like transcriptions would last very long. I also believe we will have our editorial policy dictated for us, not to mention the undesirables that WP would bring over.Daniel Maxwell 11:40, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Anachronistic places [15 March 2014]

Hi Susan,

Lately you've reversed some edits I've made regarding anachronistic places piped from the canonical place name.

My understanding and decided preference is that the place names displayed (piped) for an event be the historical names used at the date of event. This provides a historically accurate context for understanding the biography of an individual and her environment. This was one reason I chose to contribute to WR.

I hope we can resolve this without reverting each other. I refrained from further re-reverts after I noticed the pattern of you reverting my edits. --Prcb 22:46, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

I was hoping Susan might reply, she being a very conscientious contributor, I was interested in her opinion. But I will add my comments to represent the other side of this discussion, which has probably been had dozens of times over the years. I don't mean to speak for Susan, merely to respond to your post. You didn't give an example, but it appears that one case being referred to is Person:Moses Cleveland (1).
First, the pipe mechanism typically indicates a GEDCOM upload since it is a way to preserve the original input of the GEDCOM while letting the computer link to the appropriate Place page. So as a matter of process, when one notes the link was made to the correct Place page, then there is no real need to keep the original input. A human verifies the computer made the right choice by removing the pipe. The history of the place, plus the various historical names should be described on the place page, instead of redundantly and tediously entered on each Person and Family page.
A quibble about the word above, "preference". I think there was originally some idea that the pipe would allow some personal freedom. However, there is little place in a community database for personal preference. I notice that in changing the page to your preference, you changed it from Woburn, Middlesex County, Massachusetts to Woburn, Middlesex, Massachusetts. I have become aware that there are a few people whose preference it is to have the word County be explicitly included. So whose preference is more important? Some of us (me that I can vouch for) tend to remove piped names just to remove the source of such disagreements.
A point about "historically accurate". This is a nearly impossible goal and something very few people actually turn out to do properly. For example, in 1701, there was no Massachusetts, there was the Province of Massachusetts Bay, as opposed to the current Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and the previous Massachusetts Bay Colony. But who wants to have to figure when the counties came and went, when the charters started and stopped? We are naming a location, the convention is to give the location with the name it had in 1900. That way when a date (e.g., an estimated birth or death is adjusted or converted to an actual date, or correcting an error in a date) changes, you don't have to change the location as well. If you identified the physical location of the event properly, naming it once as it was named in 1900 should not need to be updated.
Just like dates, assertions about places need sources. Sources have free-form area where it is very easy to provide the explanation and description mapping whatever name is given in your source to the standard name in the place field. Since it often happens that another source uses a different naming convention (i.e., one is historical, the other uses the modern name, etc.), each source may or may not need such elaboration or explanation. So embedding such mappings in the source citation seems the appropriate place to do this. Some people do do the work with deeds that is needed to pinpoint the old homestead. I believe there is a help page that describes how to embed GIS coordinates in the description field if you have the sources to be so precise.
Of course when I add "United States" to the place names, it does not mean that I think the United States existed in 1701, this being effectively the change Susan apparently undid. (Ironically, it seems to me that the very same user who don't know when the U.S. started are might be the ones most in need of the "United States" to give them an idea where the place is.) Of course there could be some disagreement about when it did start: 1776 when the phrase was used in the Declaration (though united was lower case, i.e., merely an adjective, and not a proper name), 1781 when the Articles of Confederation were ratified and there was actually a government, 1783 when the Revolution ended and the government was recognized, 1787 when the Constitution was written, or 1788 when a committee is created to put it into operation after ratification, or 1789 when the first Congress is seated. Do we really want every user to worry about this stuff? I don't. --Jrich 19:45, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
There was a time when I bothered making such a distinction in my tree (I remember I had the single Italian line of mine with a birth showing in the 'Republic of Venice') - up to and including the reshuffling of colonial administrations - but states, governments, principalities change too often for this to be tracked. Daniel Maxwell 19:48, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
For some reason Susan Irish chose to respond on my talk page instead of here. See . She has not (as I write) responded to my remarks there. --Prcb 21:05, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
@Jrich & DMaxwell: A large part of the reward I get from the hobby of genealogy is a strong sense of the reality of history. I do not find many others get this, so I do not expect every WR contributor to share my preference for historical accuracy. Clearly neither of you are very concerned with historical accuracy. Fine. I ask nothing of you except that my preference be respected. As I mentioned to Susan Irish, I strongly feel that your attitudes _against_ historical accuracy are harmful to WR. Please stop your misguided efforts against historical accuracy. A little dose of historical reality may reward anyone who is open-minded and receptive. Also, you misunderstand or misrepresent my position with your fixation on the word "preference". To reiterate, adding "United States" to the location of an event that took place in the colonies is absolutely, categorically, historically incorrect. That event _did not_ occur in the United States. This is not a "preference". It is a fact. My "preference" is to accurately represent facts; Your stated preferences are to misrepresent facts and give excuses as to why historical accuracy is too hard for you to attempt.
@Jrich: Thank you for your thoughtful discussion of when the USA started. I don't know of an accepted cutoff date. If a contemporary document is the source and it had a place name specified then one should of course consider that. Otherwise I generally use 1784 as the cutoff (that is, events in or after 1784 may have taken place in the USA), which is about 2 months after the signing of the Treaty of Paris between the USA and England. This choice allows some time for news of that event to have reached people in the new country. Perhaps there is some room for preference here, as the situation is ambiguous to us moderns for certain dates and places, and the perceived situation to contemporary people may have changed gradually and differently for different people.--Prcb 21:05, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
The word 'preference' was indeed accurate. Susan Irish did nothing wrong. Whether or not it is written in stone (maybe it should be), the practice here has been to use the modern state/government/country. The historical place is secondary, though it is not intrinsically against the rules. Right now, you're changing things to match your preference of how you want things to be displayed. Maybe Susan Irish shouldn't have just reverted a reversion without making a post on the support forum or water cooler, but neither are wrong exactly. As for this remark: "Clearly neither of you are very concerned with historical accuracy." - yeah, I just spend hundreds of hours cleaning up families and person pages of people completely unrelated to me, what would I care about historical accuracy? Daniel Maxwell 21:18, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
This is definitely a subject that needs to be brought before the overview committee. I don't agree with the idea that the pipe mechanism was designed for gedcom uploads. This is incorrect. Also if you read the help files the Colony of such and such is recommended. Yes, being precisely accurate is difficult as I have been made aware of but it is also absurd to enter the place as United States before the United States was a country. Y'all can argue about when the USA became a country; not getting into that. But I cannot believe that someone is deleting the pipes for historical places. Why exactly?--Beth 01:55, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
But Beth, the difficulty about when the USA became a county is exactly the point. If you're not going to get into that, then you miss the whole reason why historical names are impractical. Not only that, but then there would have to be a WeRelate policy agreeing on exactly when the US became a county so that people know when to use United States as opposed to the colonial name. There is a period in colonial America where the charters of the various colonies were invalidated and it was two years before the new charter was issued. Do we still call it Massachusetts Bay Colony in the interval? No such thing existed legally. Why aren't we adding Kingdom of England at the end, too, since technically it was. And in 1707, it becomes Great Britain, so if an estimate is changed from 1706 to 1707, should we change the place name from Kingdom of England to Kingdom of Great Britain? I imagine issues in other areas of the world like Poland and other parts of eastern Europe, Alsace-Lorraine, Africa are even worse. People chafe at the name of the country in 1900 because it represented some form of imperial domination. But we're not naming the government, we're naming a place, and if everybody puts aside personal preferences and follows the guidelines, then naming the location as it was named in 1900, you have indicated the location, and maybe, someday, the computer can allow personal preferences to display it in the manner the user wants to see it, either historically or standard form or modern. But if you let personal preference rule, it will be edit wars and meaningless and needless changes by people who want to pretend they are championing historical accuracy, but who almost always are using a name that never existed at the time because they have not done enough research to know what the real name was. --Jrich 02:54, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
It boiled down to a preference, Beth. Susan pr
It boiled down to a preference, Beth. Susan preferred the modern place name, 'Prcb' preferred the older colonial name. It sounds like there was something of a revert war. Both are right and there shouldn't be a fight over it, though the site policy seems clear that the historical colony/place is secondary (yet it can be used). But if we want to get very exact, this could lead to alot of hair-splitting and what I like vs what you like, etc. Probably needs to have a formal policy and be discussed first because right now I foresee alot of toe stepping. Daniel Maxwell 02:00, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
By what authority did you Susan decide to this? I know that you have been a long time contributor to WeRelate and should know that the pipe is used for historical place names. But anyway I guess we need another discussion. But if there is too much hair-splitting I may decide to quit cleaning up my pages and just delete them. --Beth 02:29, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
'Susan and I' decided nothing on our 'authority'. When I was new, this is what the other heavy editors did and I simple did what they did. I wasn't aware this was controversial. Apparently I was wrong. I've started a discussion at the watercooler with what I think is the best compromise because otherwise it could lead to hairsplitting, though we aren't big enough for this to have become a problem, yet. Daniel Maxwell 02:36, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
How are toe-stepping and hair-splitting a problem? These are made-up issues. Most historical place name changes happen on a definite date. The USA location is surprisingly rare between 1776 and 1789. There was a war going on. None of the reverts in question occurred then. It seems to me that the toe-stompers are complaining about sore toes. I did not raise this issue to try to force anyone to use historical place names, it came up when my edits were reverted.--Prcb 02:54, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
They are not 'made up'. Let me give you an example - I am also a Cleveland descendant. Maybe I don't like the historical places (or quasi-historical, since 'Massachusetts' didn't exist yet - that would be the hair splitting I could do if I were to nitpick) on Moses Cleveland's page, and I change/revert them, as you did to the page, which was already sourced. We shouldn't be fighting/reverting over what seems like a really minor issue. I've started a discussion on the watercooler about this. BTW, let's keep cool over this, and avoid getting upset about it (such as the accusation that I don't care about historical accuracy). I am not saying I'm wrong and you're right, or vice-versa, or even that both of these could not co-exist. See my suggestion on the water cooler. Daniel Maxwell 03:00, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Well in the help files for WeRelate you may enter Colony of whatever after the pipe. What does it matter to anyone whatever one chooses to enter after the pipe and why change it unless it is just repetition from a gedcom upload.--Beth 03:12, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
It really doesn't matter to me. You won't see me reverting this on pages that you have that way. The point is Susan and 'prcb' were, so something should be worked out, lest they revert each other all over the entire site. Daniel Maxwell 03:18, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Because anything entered after the pipe is inherently a personal preference. You are naming a physical spot on the globe, not a government, so the fact that the United States didn't exist in 1701 is irrelevant: that spot of dirt being indicated was in the United States in 1900 and that is the WeRelate convention for identifying a particular spot of dirt where an event happened. And the use of pipes tends to hide the fact that the wrong Place page has been linked-to, because only the after-pipe information is displayed unless you are in edit mode (which of course you won't be if the page appears correct). Thus, a recent conversation mentioned a place in Canada that was often linked to a Place page in England and nobody noticed because the page displayed with a reasonable place name. Personally, I cleaned up a lot of pages saying Kingston, Massachusetts that were actually linking to the Place pages for Kingston, Jamaica, or Kingston, Ontario, Canada, or even Kingston, Tasmania. Besides allowing for the verification of automated place matching during GEDCOM uploads, the only valid use of pipes to my mind is when you need to add a qualifier such as "Probably" to the place name. And why do you mention a caveat, i.e., "just repetition from a gedcom upload": do you expect people to look at the history and choose to leave or delete the exact same piped name based solely on whether it came in by GEDCOM or manual edit? --Jrich 03:47, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
First, there was no revert war. When I realized what was happening I stopped & wrote an entry on Susan's talk page. I never made a "hot" edit, and I don't think Susan did either.
I apologize for saying that WR contributors don't care about historical accuracy. However accurate places are part of historical accuracy, just as accurate dates and family relationships are. I am not a professional historian, and I make mistakes in historical place names. Correcting these, with an explanation so that I may learn not to repeat the error, is not nit-picking or hair-splitting. It is part of the collaborative process of improving a shared genealogy. Historical place names are not "personal preference". Please stop repeating this obvious fallacy. Historical place names are not turned into a personal preference just because they appear after a pipe on an edit page. This is simply untrue. Historical place names are first-class facts just like the name of my gr-gr-grandmother (who was called Gaga by her grandson). Why is the fact that some canonical names on WR are laughably wrong an argument for or against historical place names? It is an argument against canonical place names, if anything. Any type of fact may be disputed, stepped on, or nit-picked. This does not mean we should abandon facts in genealogy. Please stop insisting on this nonsense of using 1900-era place names in preference to historical place names. That is historically incorrect and is _contrary_ to WR policy. There is a lot of smoke and mirrors and very little substance being piped about here.
The pipe system works pretty well. When you click a place with a historical name after the pipe it takes you to a page titled with the canonical (1900-ish) name. So you get both. That seems pretty fair. If you don't like using historical names because they're too much trouble don't bother with them as far as I'm concerned (although clearly I don't make the rules around here).
The pipe system could be improved. I can foresee a system that uses geolocation and date to get a historical name, however that's a big lift and should probably be borrowed rather than built for WR. That would be an improvement over using 1900-era place names as canonical names, which is clearly confusing to many people. And I don't think WR should build a system that lets people ignore historical reality because they fear the complexity. Should there also be a system that displays personally preferred counter-factual dates or relationships? --Prcb 05:01, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

double-dating [1 May 2014]

When people put "between" with two dates one year apart it almost always reflects a lack of understanding of how double-dating works.

diff of changes

It really meant 3 Mar 1677/68, except that date comes from secondary sources, the primary sources say 4 Mar. --Jrich 20:44, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Mercy Barber [2 August 2014]

Susan, From reading one of your sites it appears that your watch on the Barbers is more administrative than personal. Still, I first found your name while trying to sort out my "brick wall" with Mercy Barber, b. btw 1700 and 1725, depending on the source. The sources that crop up first and most consistently have Mercy the daughter of William Barber and Sarah Mumford, and give her birth date as in the early 1720's. She is shown marrying Joseph Carpenter in 1733 and giving birth to Fenix Carpenter in 1734. If 1720 something were true, she would be marrying at anywhere from age 11 to age 14, and somehow I doubt it. But the information I found on We Relate lists her more reasonably as the daughter of William Barber and his first wife, Mercy Smith, who married in 1710. That record indicated that Mercy Barber was born in 1713, and I find that matches my own surmises. But I am hoping to find the source that confirms this, and so far I have been unable to. Is there any attribution to go with the Mercy Barber or Mercy Smith record?

Thanks for helping a newcomer get started.--Miel41 16:55, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm going to offer some links. I don't think there is an actual birth record available, as I think there would be much more consistency in sources if so. I can't speak for Susan but I would guess the estimate is probably based on the marriage date to Joseph Carpenter: married one year before the birth of Fenix, so married 1733 at age 20?
this link shows a book that suggests there were no children of the first marriage. But, as has been posted on the WeRelate page, William clearly had a daughter named Mercy and grandson Fenix since he named them in his will (or see here). William married Mercy Smith in 1710. William married his next wife in 1720 (see here). If the choice is that Mercy is a daughter of the first wife, or not born until after 1720, knowing that Fenix was born in 1734 is sufficient to show the above source cannot be right. Whether one chooses about 1711 or about 1713 or about 1715 is not all that significant, the key part is recognizing she must be a child of the first wife. --Jrich 20:24, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to WeRelate Miel41. You are correct in thinking that William Barber was not my ancestor but his brother, Moses Jr., was my ancestor. As Jrich pointed out from sources available, the daughter of William Barber who married Joseph Carpenter could not have been a daughter from the second marriage. Since no birth record has been found we can only guess that her age was somewhere around age 18 - 22 when she married. --Susan Irish 05:49, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Andrew H Mott [19 January 2015]

Hi Susun I Found this link to a Rebecca D Mott, who I think is the mother of Andrew Hattaway Mott. I found it on, so perhaps you know it already.

Greetings Paul Snip--paulsnip 10:19, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Hello Paul, Thank you for your interest but Rebecca D. Mott was his aunt - sister to his father, also named Andrew H. Mott. Andrew (Jr.) was born after his father had died and the first trace of him is in court records at age about 3 when his paternal grandparents became his guardians. The record states clearly that the deceased Andrew H. Mott Sr. was the father but has no mention of his mother. Darn it! --Susan Irish 01:34, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Aslett/Aslebee [21 February 2015]

FYI, I created the page as Family:Samuel Frye and Mary Aslebe (2) knowing the marriage record said FRY, Samuell, and Mary Aslett, Nov. 20, 1671 since I cited that marriage record. Probably should have used Aslebee. I haven't done an in-depth study of the family, just the daughter Mary Frye, but had looked several places for information on that, and Aslebee seems to be how the name is spelled in literature (for example searching for Aslett in the index of TAG misses the article in Vol. 40. entitled Aslebees of Andover, and an article in Vol. 41 mentioning them, only returning a reference to an article on the Salem Witch Trials). It appears that only the town clerk of Andover during the small period while the child were born choose to spell it Aslett? The brother of Mary "Aslett", John, has his will stored as John, Lieut. ASLEBEE and John's widow as Mary ASLEBEE, no wills seemed to be stored under Aslett. --Jrich 19:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for this additional information. --Susan Irish 19:55, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Ads [28 March 2015]

Mrs. Irish, I don't know if you saw Dallan's comment on your post on the Watercooler, but the ad placement is a work in progress, and we will be working on them in both placement and size so that they are not intrusive. I sympathize with this; the site needs to raise revenue at times, and this is one means to do it. However I also agree with you that the user experience with this initial setup was quite poor.--Daniel Maxwell 07:58, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Phineas Kenyon (1) [18 April 2015]

Hi Susan,

I came across a Marr. Record in Woodstock (CT) Vital Records for a Phinehas Kinyon to Elizabeth Rogers in 1767. I believe Elizabeth Rogers b 1751 is a sister of a direct ancestor, as she was born nearby in Canterbury, CT and a transcribed Bible Record I have states that she married a Phin. Kinyon. I don't have access to any of the sources in WR that might state if Phineas married in Woodstock. Do you have any further sources that may tie him to Windham Co, CT ? I tried the Rhode Island Vitals; no clues.

You have Phineas Kenyon (1) b 1744 as son of David. By the way, other Kenyons appear in Windham records a bit later. A Thomas Kenyon appears to be of the same generation. Thanks Neal--SkippyG 01:13, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Phineas & Elizabeth [18 April 2015]

Thanks Susan,

I have the complete Woodstock VR. I'll not connect them yet, but I've put the marriage record as a note on Elizabeth's page, until I can find more proof. I really appreciate the help..Neal--SkippyG 03:36, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

LAY family [19 October 2015]

Hi Susan, Thanks for working on the Lyme LAY family. Regrettably I've not worked on this line for several years since I entered those pages in 2009 & 2010. Regards Neal Gardner--SkippyG 22:53, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Woburn Records [12 November 2015]

Just fyi. Source:Woburn, Middlesex, Massachusetts, United States. Births, Intentions, Marriages, Deaths, 1641-1843, 1768-1849 is not the same thing as Source:Woburn, Middlesex, Massachusetts, United States. Woburn Records of Births, Deaths, and Marriages. The first is a film, now also online. For example, Rebecca Wyman's birth is on p. 44. The second is the published book, and is the one that has Rebecca's birth on p. 286. It may seem like splitting hairs, but Edward Johnson, the compiler of the published records, inserted a lot of personal preferences in his book, which would make the film a lot better source if it wasn't so much harder to find records (also the cited film happens to be a copy made in 1846). Also, the published book is a 10 volume set, so Rebecca's birth is Vol. 1, p. 286. --Jrich 06:09, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for this addition information. I was not aware of the familysearch record online. --Susan Irish 06:17, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

James Whitney DOYLE [10 January 2016]

I have received notice that you want to change the records of James Whitney Doyle, to delete his date of death. This conflicts with my records, do you have research/documents to support the change?

Mike Crosby--Mike Crosby 16:07, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Lucy Bugbee [28 January 2016]

Hi Susan, I see your working on the William Marcy & Lucy Bugbee family. There is a Lucy Bugbee b 1734 in WR. who is probably William's (b 1730) wife. No other Lucy Bugbee appears in Woodstock records, but I've hesitated to merge them.--SkippyG 20:08, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Neal, I haven't started work with the CT family yet; just piecing together some of the VT records for the children of William & Lucy. --Susan Irish 20:15, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Old GEDCOM: Nicksayers [5 March 2016]

Hi, Susan

Dallan has asked on the Old GEDCOMs Talk page whether or not to delete the tree Nicksayers (because the reviewer did not make a clear recommendation). Based on the reviewer's comments, I would recommend the tree be deleted. I noticed, though, that you have done a small amount of cleanup on the tree and are watching a couple of pages.

Would you be willing to update the Old GEDCOMs Talk page and make a clear recommendation one way or the other? If you are okay with deleting the GEDCOM and losing the bit of cleanup you did, please ask for the tree to be deleted. Otherwise, someone should go through the tree and individually delete pages for potentially living individuals. I can do that (and it appears you can too) but I'd rather use my time on trees that appear to be worth keeping. Thanks - Janet. --DataAnalyst 21:53, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Julia A Unknown [14 March 2016]

I received a message concerning Julia, wife of Lylr Grant Gable. Having seen your edit, I went on Google and found her obituary. It included her maiden name as well as other information. Her maiden name was Bucci. My question is, do I send you the information I have in a message like this or do I have to enter it into a database such as FTM and then send you a GEDCOM based on that? It would be faster to do it via a message like this, but I don't want to complicate things for you. The obituary can be found at: It includes her birth and death dates, birth place and names of children and spouses, and grandchildren and greatg-grandchildren. Through further research on Ancestry I found her parents as well as names of siblings..

So, do I do a message or create a GEDCOM?

I have a few other minor questions but they can wait.--Wcoup 05:26, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

There is only one problem I see with Julia Anna Bucci's page. Both the Find a Grave and obituary give 2 August as her date of death. Find a Grave has a picture of her marker and the obituary states it. I sure wish we had an official record.--Wcoup 13:08, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Reverting ? [26 April 2016]

Hello, Susan ! ... Where was the problem ? --> Can you explain ? Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 04:28, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

The change you made added nothing to the content of the page and served no purpose that I could see. Personally I prefer using a cap "A" for about and cap "B" for before as the previous edit had used.

--Susan Irish 04:35, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Harriet Clark Diary and Seth Clark Bible [28 May 2016]

Hi Susan - I have been researching George Clark (d. 3Jun1851 Portland, Me) and see your reference here to a Harriet Clark Diary and that she possessed a Seth Clark Bible. Can you tell me how she is related to George and Seth? Do the bible and diary still exist? I'm a direct descendant of George's daughter Sarah Ann Clark Andrews. Thanks, Sarah Andrews--Sandrews-wwh 02:35, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Question about deleting bad sources [23 June 2016]

Hi Susan - I've been working on several maintenance areas and have some questions about how best to handle a situation. I am currently working from the Special:Wantedpages list, so for example MySource:Researcher/Board.FBC.FBK.FTW shows up on the list now because you deleted it in March and there are still 1,208 pages that are trying to link to it. I don't disagree at all with your decision to delete it. I am just curious if there was a follow up plan to remove it from each of those 1,208 pages? Was there any discussion about this? Thanks, --cos1776 21:34, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

ps - I should add that I didn't clue in to what was causing this until a couple of sources in, so we might need to re-delete some of them. --cos1776 21:36, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi - From time to time I delete bad sources on people and family pages that are linked to those large bad sources but this one MySource:Researcher/Board.FBC.FBK.FTW doesn't look familiar to me. So I will work on deleting the source on those individual pages. Through the winter and early spring I was primarily deleting 32,000 Living xxx pages.--Susan Irish 22:42, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
This really sounds like the kind of thing that could be handled by a bot, don't you agree? Are you aware of a similar situation here where one was employed for this type of thing? --cos1776 22:47, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
I have no familiarity with bots so I don't know how to create one or use it. --Susan Irish 22:54, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Lynden Death [14 August 2016]

Hi! As I recall, we worked together at one point on some Lynden people. I have one Katherine (Kay) Ribbens Vogelzang (1925-22 Feb 1989) who died in Lynden as per WA Death Index. I was wondering if you had sources for her other than that WA Death Index; sources with a date of birth would be great since she doesn't seem to have been known to Social Security. (I haven't created a page for her yet hoping to find her date of birth.) --pkeegstra 15:49, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

1930 census
1940 census
--Jrich 16:52, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
Many thanks, JRich! I had the censuses, but not the obituary. And the obituary does have all the information I was missing. --pkeegstra 01:51, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Need for sources [31 August 2016]

Hi, Susan. You have recently made changes to Person:George Tribble (2), but have not provided any sources or reasons for doing so. The original page lacks any sources -- sadly a common situation for early members of lines related to George -- but I don't understand how that information can simply be deleted without reference to some explanation and source. Do you have a source for the changes you made? Thanks, Gayel --GayelKnott 15:31, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I don't think the parents need to be added in, but I do get a bit leery about some the efforts to "clean up" WeRelate that result in deletion of information without explanation or sources, which is why I asked. I have a bit of a reputation for getting grumpy over the need for sources. I try to keep it toned down, but . . . Gayel --GayelKnott 22:56, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Henry Rosser [22 October 2016]

Hi Sarah

I have a query. On another ancestor website I have seen that the Henry Rosser who married Sarah Goddard was born to Edward Rosser and Mary Tomes in Gloucestershire. Please could you tell me your sources for connecting Henry Rosser (born to William Rosser and Martha Hancorne in llanblethian) with Sarah Goddard.

Thank you.--Jesmond 22:37, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

I am not knowledgeable about this family, but this website seems to agree with the WeRelate presentation, and if you read the wills, the spinster sister Mary names as nieces the two daughters named in the will of Sarah (Goddard) Rosser. So if Mary is placed in the right family, it suggests Henry is as well. --Jrich 03:28, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
That is my website.--Susan Irish 03:33, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Henry rosser [22 October 2016]

Thank you for your replies on this person. I am researching the Hodson family. On Henry Rosser (in the Hodson tree) 1743-1812 is listed as born in Gloucestershire to Edward Rosser and Mary Tomes. Your information about the bequests to Hodsons in the will of Mary is very helpful. Also some other siblings of Henry mention Hodsons in their wills. Some Hodson family trees on DO list Henry Rosser as the son of Martha Hancorne and William. Thank you for clarifying this for me.--Jesmond 14:18, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Joseph Woodmansee marriages and children [16 February 2017]

Confusion seems to stem from marriages to two cousins Sarah Lester (Lyster) and Hannah Lyster (Lester). It looks like all children born before 1719 children of Sarah and those born afterwards children of Hannah. I can't find any evidence of a wife named Alice.--Tammyhensel 19:45, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Joseph's will names a wife Alice. I don't know who she was but she was his wife by 13 Feb 1750 (maybe 1750/51) when Joseph wrote his will. I have access to some Richmond, RI deed extracts and will look at them in the near future to see if anything else on this family can be posted.--Susan Irish 21:50, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

They are not in my direct line, as I'm descended from Joseph's brother Thomas. But I did connect with one of Joseph's descendants through DNA testing, so adding the family to my tree and helping her confirm what she has.--Tammyhensel 23:04, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

They are not in my direct line, as I'm descended from Joseph's brother Thomas. But I did connect with one of Joseph's descendants through DNA testing, so adding the family to my tree and helping her confirm what she has.--Tammyhensel 23:04, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Nutting merges [13 March 2017]

Susan, Thanks for doing the merges. I had put in my third GEDCOM and got tired of waiting. Figured it was not going to make it just like the previous tries so I started putting people in one by one. Great fun to see new people now added to my tree. Thanks again Ward--WHindman65 02:21, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

I loaded images of Rufus Nutting to his page. How do I move the silhouette up to the top of his page?--WHindman65 03:14, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

On the edit page scroll down to the "Images" section. There is a small box before the title of each image. A check in that box will move the image to the Name Section. I moved it but look at the edit page and notice this checked box. --Susan Irish 06:19, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Got it. Thanks very much. Here's another question. I have family photos that go from a few years ago to over a 100 years ago. No idea who took them - most likely family. What do I show for copyright? I have pictures from 50 years ago that look like posed family photos, probably done by a pro. No idea who. Can I use them? How do I code them?--WHindman65 01:51, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Ward, I am not a copyright expert. My suggestion would be for you to look at several pages where pictures have been added and see what was used as a License/Copyright selection then decide where your pictures fit best and make a determination on each picture separately. --Susan Irish 05:50, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Daniel Vaughan and Dinah Watkins [17 May 2017]

Hi, I see that on Daniel Vaughan and Dianah Watkins page it shows the Copy of a page out of a bible. I was curious whos bible that was, and if there are more pages? Also. do you have any information past Daniel and Dianah? Their son Jacob Vaughan was my husbands great great grandfather and of Course that would make Daniel and Dianah his great, great, great, grandparents. I have quite a bunch of information on Jacobs family if you are interested. Please let me know at I hope I'm doing this right, I'm new to this site.--Virginiavaughan 06:38, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Daniel Vaughan and Dinah Watkins [17 May 2017]

Hi, I see that on Daniel Vaughan and Dianah Watkins page it shows the Copy of a page out of a bible. I was curious whos bible that was, and if there are more pages? Also. do you have any information past Daniel and Dianah? Their son Jacob Vaughan was my husbands great great grandfather and of Course that would make Daniel and Dianah his great, great, great, grandparents. I have quite a bunch of information on Jacobs family if you are interested. Please let me know at I hope I'm doing this right, I'm new to this site.--Virginiavaughan 06:39, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Deleting MySource pages [16 June 2017]

Hi Susan - A recent discussion has been taking place regarding the pages that appear on the Wanted pages list - how they get there and the best way to resolve them, etc. Some of these are MySource pages that have been deleted by admins, such as this one. Since you are a valued long time contributor who occasionally does these types of MySource deletions, I was wondering if there is some history involved behind that decision that you can share. Deleting MySource pages without resolving all of the corresponding links doesn't fully solve the problem of an undesirable source and the citations to it. However, it does flag the issue for further resolution, so I was thinking that it might have been endorsed as a step in the right direction by past admins. Can you shed any light on this practice? Thanks, --cos1776 12:46, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

William Chamberlain 28 [9 July 2017]

Just fyi: the parents page was named correctly and represented a marriage that actually happened, had a link to the wife of that marriage Lydia Buck, and a date, and multiple sources all correct for the marriage. What was wrong was William having those parents. By renaming the page, it effectively erased a valid marriage and the data and sources for that marriage. The data on Lydia Buck had to be looked up again and re-entered into a new page. What probably should have happened was that William should have had his parents removed from his Person page and replaced by the correct ones. --Jrich 00:39, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Voting [24 July 2017]

Hi, Susan

I noticed you voted for requests today. This is just to remind you that you have to vote your points as a multiple of the points assigned. So, for example, if you want to "Sort by page title" (which is assigned 4 points), you have to vote 4 points (or 8 or 12). For "Research site speed" (assigned 2 points), you have to vote 2 or 4 (or 6,...) points.

Sorry - I know it can be confusing, and I might use a different system next time, but I felt that if anyone really wants an improvement that takes more effort, they have to want it badly enough to vote at least as many points as it will take to get it done.--DataAnalyst 01:20, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Martha Waite [25 August 2017]

It is not clear to me what "Exeter RI Town Council puts this Martha Waite/Weight in East Greenwich in 1750" means and certainly won't mean anything to people that look at the page without looking at the edit summaries in the history. Can you please post whatever sources you are relying on, as you have effectively invalidated a respected genealogist in a respected journal without any evidence. He very well could be wrong but his publishing means it needs explaining. Thank you. --Jrich 13:26, 25 August 2017 (UTC) P.S. the context of the record is very important, as one Martha Waite, who lost her father young and may be the subject of interest for that reason, was only 12, whereas the other was an adult of 24 and one would think, more likely to be named individually as opposed to some phrase, like his or her children. The other Martha was born in Dartmouth but her birth is recorded in East Greenwich when her father moved there in the late 1730's here but in Arnold also. --Jrich 15:28, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

I put the full text as transcribed by Alden Beamon on Martha's talk page. Thanks for the link to East Greenwich records; I will see what else can be found there.--Susan Irish 17:36, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

GEDCOM Export Ready [12 November 2018]

The GEDCOM for tree Default is ready to download. Click here.

Susan you just updated the records of Jacob Katz - I am his grand grandson, grandson of Hudel Katz and Moshe Buller and son of Zecharia buller-Nishri, Living in Israel. Are you a family relative? how do you relate To Katz and Prostak families ?--Moshe Nishri 17:17, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

G.h.vandoorn [13 feb 2019]

Beste Susan en Pkeegstra, G.h.vandoorn heeft bijna alle gegevens die hij in voerde verwijderd. Ook waar ik aan werkte maar niet volgde, omdat het geen directe familie was. Is het mogelijk dat dit terug wordt gezet?

Dear Susan en Pkeegstra, G.h.vandoorn has removed almost all the data he has imported. Also what I worked on but did not follow, because it was not a direct family. Is it possible that this is put back?

Kan ik helpen? / Can I help?

Groet, Lidewij 16:29, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

You have links to the history, you can use that to hand type in the page to re-create it. Or wait for an admin.

You probably know, if only one person is watching a page, they may delete the page with no questions.

If you are interested in a page that somebody else entered, you should watch it, so it can't simply be deleted.

The worse case is no watchers. Somebody can adopt the page by watching it and then delete it even though others created it.

I'd try translating but you're probably better at it than I. --Jrich 23:02, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

@Jrich, you wrote,
"you can use that to hand type in the page to re-create it."
>>Is een bad idea. The old pages were provided with sources.
You probably know, if only one person is watching a page, they may delete the page with no questions.
>> Yes, the bad side of WeRelate. This made that genealogy on this site is not my hobby anymore.
Ik deed hier vooral onderhoud/reparatie aan de pagina's. Vele uren en dagen was ik bezig. Zocht bronnen bij de personen. Omdat het niet mijn familie was, nam ik het niet in mijn volglijst. Mijn bijdragen waren op meer dan 1000 pagina's. En in een minuut verwijderde iemand alle pagina's. Niemand kwam in Actie. Bij het maken van een gedcom verwijder je eerst op de eigen computer de personen die al op WeRelate aanwezig zijn. Dit kost dagen werk. Na een paar jaar zijn de personen niet meer aanwezig. Op deze manier gaat het nooit lukken om één stamboom te maken.
Op mijn thuiscomputer staan meer dan 100.000 personen in de genealogie. Ik zet geen 100.000 pagina's op mijn volglijst.
Ik ben hier nog wel miniem actief, hopend op betere tijden.
Op Wikipedia zal het je niet lukken om overlegpagina's of hoofdpagina's te verwijderen. Op het moment dat je een pagina opslaat, heb je de tekst aan het project gedoneerd.
I mainly did maintenance/repair on the pages here. I was busy for many hours and days. Looked for sources from the people. Because it was not my family, I did not include it in my watchlist. My contributions were on more than 1000 pages. And in a minute someone removed all pages. Nobody came into Action. When creating a gedcom you first delete on the own computer the persons who are already present at WeRelate. This takes days of work. After a few years, the people are no longer present. In this way it will never succeed to make one pedigree.
My home computer contains more than 100,000 people in genealogy. I do not put 100,000 pages on my watchlist.
I am still very active here, hoping for better times.
On Wikipedia you will not be able to delete consultation pages or main pages. The moment you save a page, you have donated the text to the project.
Groet, Lidewij 01:49, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
I noticed the deletions too. Suddenly one of the pages I was watching was updated and the parents page for that page was gone. I undeleted all that tree, and I was going to ask Ron to see if any of these pages mostly from Gelderland were ones he was interested in. I don't know any way to systematically get these pages back with just user access, but if that's what we want to do I would probably start with the red links from his contributions page. --pkeegstra 12:16, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
Am just now back from a week in Algarve, Portugal. 18 degrees Celsius, blue sky, sun all day. Life !
Anyway, i am unaware of deleted pages caused by myself, so please let me know which page(s) and i will restore. Thx Ron.

>> >Lidewij's talk page.

Peironnets [17 August 2019]

Hi Susan,

Are you related in any way to the Peironnets? I am descended from Henry Miller Pierce and Susan Bishop Peironnet. I ask, because I am always looking for information on Susan’s uncle, Thomas Peironnet, d. 1820, Friendsville, Pa.

Santa T.--Santatraugott 19:09, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Recent changes [5 November 2019]

Person talk:James Cobb (2)

I am unsure of the reasoning for erasing the birth and leaving the baptism, but it appears the opposite of what should have happened. As mentioned on the Talk page I cannot see the cited source, but believe I have refuted what was posted. Hoping that I haven't overlooked something I should have considered.

It is nice that pages are being cleaned up, but cosmetics doesn't make the data correct. Knowing you are one of a handful of contributors that understands correctness, it is frustrating that cosmetics seems to be the only goal of some of your recent edits. It hides pages that need serious review by making them look cared for. --Jrich 15:01, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Since baptisms rarely occur on the date of birth I assumed, incorrectly in this case, that the source the poster had used had given the bapt. date. When I see a page or family where the surname is in all caps I change it. Usually these are in GEDCOMs uploaded before 2014 and appear abandoned. If I am on a page for some reason and notice the date is in all caps I will change that too as well as removing the leading zero on a date and might change the entire family too before moving on.
BTW, I appreciate your finding free familysearch links for some of the probate records I have posted using ancestry links. --Susan Irish 17:18, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

== [4 January 2020]

Camden: Camden Town and London Borough [6 January 2020]

I have come across a number of families in the "What links here" list under Camden Town where you are noted as the contributor. I began to feel that you might like to know why I have made the alterations to the places these people lived in.

Camden Town has a long history, but it covers a much smaller footprint than the London Borough of Camden that was formed in 1965. Please have a look at the descriptions in [[Place:Camden Town, London, England]] and [[Place:Camden (London Borough), Greater London, England]].

Shortly I hope to add a map of St. Pancras parish in 1885 to the Camden Town page which should clarify the problem. The map is currently the second one on the St. Pancras page, but it is twice as large as it should be and I want to reduce it before I copy it to the smaller places within the parish/borough. I thought I had solved this problem with the map a few weeks ago, but I got diverted and with Christmas I never got back to it.

Regards --Goldenoldie 16:54, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. I defer to your expertise with all these London area parishes.--Susan Irish 20:29, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Sussex town name [18 January 2020]

Hi Susan

Ancient handwriting is not one of my specialities and I am very surprised to see it in a document from the 1700s. I'm not even sure which word I ought to be puzzling over. If it is the last word in the line immediately under the title, that could be Sussex.

Into the bargain, Sussex appears to be a county I started on, but never got to grips with. Why it was ever divided into East Sussex and West Sussex I have never understood, and whether the two parts ever got back together is another problem. It is also not a county I have had much personal contact with. So much for the negatives.

The Lashmar family appears to have links with Brighton, so that's where I would start. Brighton was in the hundred of Whalebone which had only two other parishes: Patcham and West Blatchington (see Patcham was merged into Brighton in 1928 (see along with a number of other places, any one of which might be a possibility. Also take a look at the alternate names for Brighton itself close to the top of the page (Brighthelmstone?). Vision of Britain is a website that takes a lot of getting to grips with, so I will also recommend GENUKI for discussion of Sussex, Brighton and Patcham. Please note I haven't inspected what GENUKI has to say, that's for you to do.

The law profession in England included people called writers who spent their days copying out old documents. They were not transcribers; they had to follow the exact shaping of the letters in front of them. I recall hearing about writers in an episode of "Who do you think you are?", UK version. Most interesting.

Good luck. But you may have to get in touch with a handwriting specialist.

Pat or --Goldenoldie 10:50, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Oh, how it pays to try another tack. So glad you found it.--Goldenoldie 16:35, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Aletha Downing granddaughter to oscar amd levern [2 February 2020]

Hello, I saw that you have family of mine on your tree, I was wanting to know more, any info thank you , my email is Downing 06:05, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Aletha Downing granddaughter to oscar amd levern [2 February 2020]

Hello, I saw that you have family of mine on your tree, I was wanting to know more, any info thank you , my email is Downing 06:05, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Dedham records [2 May 2020]

I am posting because you are not watching all the pages you change, and do not see corrections, which would also reflect this.

On Person:Mary Gay (7) you added Source:Dedham, Norfolk, Massachusetts, United States. Vital Records of Dedham, Massachusetts 1635-1845 by Robert Hanson Brand. Notice the publication date. This book is under copyright and not available at any of the usual online places. I saw it once and it is quite different I believe than the source you mean to cite. I suspect if people look on page 25, they will not find the indicated birth record.

Your page number "Volume 1, p. 25", happens to match where the birth is found in Source:Dedham, Norfolk, Massachusetts, United States. Early Records of the Town of Dedham, Massachusetts, a different book. I assume you meant to cite this source.

At the risk of throwing out too much data, I will add more details.

Alternately it can be cited as Source:Dedham, Norfolk, Massachusetts, United States. Record of Births, Marriages and Deaths, and Intentions of Marriage (1635-1845) which is a separate source page describing just Volume 1 of the above series. I assume that if this source is cited, there is no need to add Volume 1, just simply cite p. 25.

Source:Dedham, Norfolk, Massachusetts, United States. Church Records, Baptisms, Marriages and Deaths, 1638-1845 describes volume 2, which is useful for baptisms. Alternately, this can be cited as volume 2 of the Early Records source. There are also other volumes containing town meetings etc, which apparently weren't useful enough to cause somebody to create a source page for them.

There is, additionally, a confusing volume numbering issue going on. Volume 1 of the Early Records series is a single published volume that covers two volumes of the original records, Volume 1 and Volume 2. Since the published transcription is being cited in the source citation, Volume 1 should refer to Volume 1 of the series. And page 25 is the page in the published transcription people turn to, to see the birth record. We are not reporting volume 1 of the original town records, and the transcription does not give page numbers in the original records, so we can't even attempt to report the original page number. It turns out anything after published page 129 comes from volume two of the original records, but people citing the published records, even pages after 129, should still be cited as volume 1. If somebody goes to a library, the volume they pull off the shelf to see something on p. 130 is volume 1, not volume 2. (I say this just because other users have made this error on this source, and I believe a similar error has made by you when you cite Barbour, giving the original page number when the context wants Barbour's page number.)

Some town records are online (I believe they are copies, old in their own right, but not the authentic original). But the order and wording appears to match the published transcription. Mary's birth is found here, near the bottom. I am not sure what the page number is, but this source would be cited as Source:Dedham, Norfolk, Massachusetts, United States. Births, Intentions, Marriages, Deaths, 1635-1853, where the author is the town clerk, not Don Gleason Hill. --Jrich 14:59, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Clean up vs delete for living persons [11 May 2020]

Hi, Susan.

I noticed that you cleaned up a number of pages contributed by Pawsonlady where the birth date is "private", such as this one: Person:Joe McKissick (1). These pages are for people considered to be living by WeRelate policy (born within the last 110 years with no death info). I just wanted to give you a heads up that I am in the process of deleting such pages, because I don't want you to feel that your cleanup efforts are a waste of time. I know you used to have the ability to delete pages yourself, so if you still do, you can delete these pages. Or you can just leave them and I will delete them probably within the next 10 years.

I am researching pages where I can't tell if someone is living (e.g., someone whose mother was born between 1865 and about 1890, depending on my mood) or if there is a deceased spouse and I prefer not to have to create additional links, but I don't research everyone and you shouldn't feel you have to either if you want to simply delete them when the birth is "private" or there are other indications the person was born within the last 110 years.

Let me know if you have questions about the policy. Thanks. - Janet --DataAnalyst 13:34, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Janet.
I did delete a few pages of people who I considered to be living but I did leave a few marked "private" because I thought they were probably deceased but didn't want to take the time right then to research them. --Susan Irish 14:08, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

History of Jonathan Jackson and family [3 July 2020]

History of Newton by Frances Jackson published 1854

Edward Jackson

son of Edward: Jonathan (oldest son of Edward) m. Elizabeth (?)

son of Jonathan/Elizabeth: Jonathan born December 28th, 1672 m. Mary Salter

son of Jonathan/Mary Salter: Jonathan born April 28, 1701

son of Jonathan: Edward Jackson m. Dorothy Quincy

son of Edward/Dorothy: Jonathan born June 4, 1743 m. Hannah Tracy (his sister Mary married Oliver Wendall)

some of his children: Robert b. March 4, 1774; Henry January 12(forgot to write down the date) d. 1806; Charles b. May 31, 1775 graduated Harvard 1793; Hannah b. 1776 m. Francis Lowell.--Njackson 13:58, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

I am the many great granddaughter of Edward Jackson and his son Sebas. Anyone interested in the Jackson family can contact me. I have letters from the Revolutionary War through the 1800's. My history going backwards to that time is as follows with some birth dates left out:

My father: Charles Augustus Jackson b. November 4, 1918 m. Ruth White b. May 22, 1912

Grandfather: Pearsall Bradhurst Jackson b. 1870 (?) d. 1939 m. Nathalie Constant L'Hommedieu b. 1882 d. November 1963

Great Grandfather: Charles Augustus Jackson born 1840 d.1906 m. Mary Elizabeth Bradhurst d. 1922

Great Great Grandfather: William Augustus Jackson murdered in New Orleans 1847 m. Helen F. McCarty one son only, Charles. She was one of the first 100 members of the New York Social Register.

3x's Great Grandfather: Charles Augustus Jackson m. Harriet

4x's Great Grandfather: Simon Jackson

5x's Great Grandfather: General Michael Jackson

I have more information and dates. Didn't have all in front of me at the time of this writing--Njackson 14:17, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Other spam messages [1 February 2021]

Please ... I found : --Markus3 09:36, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello ! ... another : - --Markus3 06:37, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
And a new one ! ---> - --Markus3 07:50, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Please check again [20 March 2021]

I still refuse to believe that someone who was born and died in 1578 was married in 1573!

This is copied from Thomas Mowry's page:

Name Thomas Mowry
Gender Male
Marriage 18 May 1573 London, England to Elizabeth _____
Birth? 26 Mar 1578 England
Death? 26 Mar 1578 Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, England

Regards, --Goldenoldie 11:30, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree but I don't have any sources for this family at the present time. I thought about deleting the page but then changed my mind. --Susan Irish 13:05, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
This bad data may be found elsewhere as well [3]. I think in cases like this that appear so bad, usually, somewhere in the process, it has been miscopied by a newbie from a readily available source. So it if often not that hard to figure out some of the confusion. In this case Find A Grave probably gives the correct death date, and it appears that this record [4] suggests the marriage dates belong to his parents. Thomas' supposedly married a woman named Elizabeth born in 1590, so the date should clearly be more like Bef 1606 when the alleged son was born. Of course, this is still not reliable genealogy, much more research would be needed to do it right, but at least the broken dates could be made feasible. This isn't enough to guarantee that the son of George actually is the Thomas who had a son Roger, and this could only be creating add yet another mistaken variant to be found on the Internet. The only way to fix it right is to invest in the research, or delete it. --Jrich 14:30, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Ancestry Public Tree as source [5 April 2021]

Hi, Susan

I just restored Ancestry Public Tree as a source on Ina Crawford's page. I appreciate that this is not considered a reliable source and I understand why you normally remove it. However, I would ask you to leave it, for several reasons:

  • As you know, Ancestry Public Trees are notoriously unreliable for older time periods. If someone cited Ancestry Public Trees as the only source for someone born in the 1600's or 1700's, and I suspect something fishy with the data, I can do the appropriate research and feel comfortable updating the data without worrying that there is a credible source behind the "fishy" data. On the other hand, if I don't yet have more reliable data, and there is a working link to the Ancestry Public Tree, I might follow it to see if any sources are cited. I have occasionally been surprised to discover that "something fishy" turned out to be supported by good evidence.
  • Most of the work I am currently doing involves people born in the last 150 years. I've found that Ancestry Public Trees are considerably more reliable for this recent data. Yes, there are many blunders and much copied data and one needs to be cautious, but the data is surprisingly robust compared to data for older generations. In fact, I've found it to be the most efficient place to find data on people born in the last 150 years. This is where people report data on their recently deceased loved ones and on the people they've come to know through family reunions, and as such, is a source for birth and death dates not easily found elsewhere. When a photo is included, it is likely that the data came from reasonably close family or has been copied from data provided by family.
  • I am doing a massive project to find and delete pages for living individuals, and to enter birth and death dates for anyone who could conceivably be living. To accomplish this in a reasonable time period, I don't have time to add all the sources I would like to, especially since I'd like to find them in a free website rather than When I find an Ancestry Public Tree with sources, I link to it, with the hope that I can come back some day and include the appropriate sources directly in WeRelate. Even if I never get a chance to do that, others with an Ancestry subscription can follow the link and see the sources for themselves. It's not perfect, but it's better than not having a source at all.
    • In the case of Ina Crawford, the Ancestry Public Tree I linked to includes 4 sources verifying birth and death dates, as well as several census records - an excellent example of good sourcing. Thus, it is worth keeping a link to the Ancestry Public Tree until such time as the sources can be added directly to WeRelate.
  • Even if the Ancestry Public Tree doesn't have any sources, I leave a trail indicating where I got my data so that others know it is not my original research. Consider it a heads-up that nothing better than Ancestry Public Trees was used as a source - although, as noted above, they aren't so bad for recent data.
  • I am not aware of any way in WeRelate to search for pages without sources. For anyone wanting to improve sources in WeRelate, having a link to Ancestry Public Trees is a quick way to find pages that need source improvement.

I appreciate very much your work improving WeRelate data. It makes me feel part of a team. Hopefully together with others we can keep making this one of the best sites for reliable genealogical data.--DataAnalyst 12:49, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Documenting where the data came from is significant and better than no source even if the source is unreliable. The place to battle the use of bad sources is at posting time, by giving warnings in popups with explanations why the source is considered unreliable, what makes good sources, and strategies for finding and using better sources. I think it is great there is a label on the source saying it is unreliable. If I happen to be a descendant and am really invested in finding out about them, at least a citation of a bad source will inform me where I can look next. Perhaps something there will take me further. However, it does not remove the possibility the information posted is bogus and that researching based on what is posted will be a big time sink.
Many people do not have Ancestry accounts and cannot follow those links. They act as advertisements. For those people, a citation like this cannot be determined to be worthwhile or useful without that access, unless there is some indication of what it says. For example, indicating if further sources are cited on the page would be useful. Of course, in Ancestry trees, the sources are often other Ancestry trees, so not real sources. Better yet, of course, would be to verify those sources and cite them instead.
It turns here are indexes of Ina Crawford's birth in Wisconsin that come up immediately upon looking for them in (a free website). She lived in the every-name census era, and so there should be 5 censuses that would provide useful qualitative confirmations of various facts in her life. But this superficial search also yields a Find A Grave memorial that indicates she was married, so did not die as Ina Crawford, a fact not documented on Ina's page, but confirmed by the 1920 census where she is listed with her husband, and the social security index which ties the birth date to the death date, issued in Wisconsin and last residing in Texas. The page was clearly half-done, and still is.
Adding better sources takes time, but to me, this is actually improving the page. --Jrich 14:35, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
>> Documenting where the data came from is significant and better than no source even if the source is unreliable.
I very much agree with this statement. It helps me to not waste my time on a source that has already been qualified.
woepwoep 12:47, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Picture of Lucy Ann Brassfield Lamson [6 April 2021]

Hello Susan

I have a picture of Lucy Ann Brassfield (daughter of Othnal Minter Brassfield). Can’t figure out how to get it to you. John Brassfield. jbrass--Jbrass 01:32, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Daniel Shelton (4) [3 October 2021]

Hi Susan, you changed the location on this page to the United States which did not exist in 1729. Would you fix it? Thanks, --Beth 04:17, 3 October 2021 (UTC)Beth

Thanks for letting me know about doing away with the colonial designations. --Beth 12:52, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Cecil Hellim [23 January 2022]

Do you have any info on Cecil?

Lynette Jester--LynetteJester 17:28, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

There is no one of that name on WeRelate.--Susan Irish 19:02, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Potentially living people [26 April 2022]

Hi, Susan

The following new pages showed up in my report of potentially living people. I really don't want to add them to my already extensive backlog of pages that I need to find dates for or delete. Please follow up and enter death dates for them when you can (but within a few months, please). Thanks. - Janet --DataAnalyst 16:42, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Person:Sherman Green (4)
Person:Susan Green (21)
Person:Winthrop Davis (2)
Person:Violet Whitford (1)
Person:Hinman Whitford (1)
Person:Darwin Whitford (1)
Person:Edith Whitford (2)
Person:George Whitford (5)

Your Recent Edits [30 July 2022]


Hello, Susan.

You made several edits to pages I watch, mostly deleting data. These edits start with Person:Louisa_Sword_(1) and end with Family:Carl_Spriggs_and_Elizabeth_Hall_(1) (I had left this couple's profiles unedited deliberately to use as comparison for a group of my associates who may be interested in joining

Can you explain why these edits were made? Were these changes necessary at this time (as I am working these profiles currently)? Are there style guidelines that mandate these changes? Are you watching these profiles, too?

Please let me know. Thanks!


--Rwbdragon 19:57, 30 July 2022 (UTC)