User talk:Ekjansen

Archives

• Gedcom-History
• Archief
• Archief 2011

Another Aldfaer question [1 January 2011]

Klaas, I keep coming to you with Aldfaer questions, I certainly hope you don't mind. You are the resident expert in the software :-)

There is a Dutch user with a gedcom waiting in the queue. He has over 6000 MySources that will be imported. It seems that with Aldfaer, if he types something like Aarlanderveen bevolkingsregister 1869-1880, deel 4 blz. 109 http://www.sahm.nl/detail.asp?File=sdk_k2bev&DocID=39439508 into the Bron field, the "Source" created is just this text, no title, no author, etc. WR tries to create a source title from an Author or Title field, when those are missing it takes the wording from the text field. So, the MySource title will be a "truncated" version of the text in the Bron field: MySource:User/Aarlanderveen bevolkingsregister 1869-1880, deel 4 blz. 109 http:/www.sahm.nl/detail.asp question File=sdk k2b There is concern the http:// in the title might cause problems.

Aldfaer is a popular software among Dutch users, so I imagine we'll run across this issue from time to time. I just thought I would "pick your brain" for ideas... Thank you, --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:29, 31 December 2010 (EST)

The bronnen in Aldfaer just offer one field. To improve this there is a post in the 'wensenlijst' (list of wishes) but not yet available. That is also my problem with the sources being all seperate as single mysources in WeRelate. --Klaas (Ekjansen) 11:58, 1 January 2011 (EST)

Splitting a GEDCOM file into segments [6 January 2012]

User:JBS66 just recommended you as the best person to talk to when trying to figure out the best way to split a GEDCOM for uploading to WeRelate. I'm not the person she recommended this to - but I have struggled with this also! Is this something you could write out and publish as a WR article for the benefit of all uploaders? I believe WR is losing potential users who feel unable to upload because they/we don't know the best way to divide up their database. I have abt 25,000 in my database, but don't want to divide it into 5,000 persons - I want much smaller uploads so I can work on the pages as I go.

I have started with the earliest known ancester, printed a descendancy chart of just three generations and am working my way down that way. But I've only just started with this and can't visualize just how this is going to work. If there is a better way please write it out for the benefit of us all!! --Janiejac 17:25, 5 January 2012 (EST)

I can tell you from my experience that working down the lists by hand will not come to an end. my own database (376'000 persons) is even too large to import in quite a few free genealogy softwareprograms. Further, I work with a Dutch program called Aldfaer with special tools. So I don't know if you have about the same possibilities with your software to split the data-export.

• 1. I just made of all my ggparents (6th generation =32 people) ancestry groups and exported them into gedcoms. Aldfaer gives the choice to include all children, their partners, partners parents and a few more.
• 2. I made gedcoms of the descendency of those 32 ggparents.
• 3. I could combine groups to make them have the max of 5000 people per group.
• 4. I also made groups by count(r)y or place (not count(r)y or not place).

negative:

• I had and have a huge amount of families who will appear in more than one gedcom, so this means merging of the duplicates which is a hard but very useful job.
• In my experience I think 5000 people to import at once is too much, but I can't blame anyone who does it, because I did it myself.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 04:42, 6 January 2012 (EST)

Thanks so much. This is going to take some doing as I didn't limit myself to just my ancestors but took info from collateral families and their relations because in early Colonial America the families were so intertwined. I'll have to keep very good records of what has already been uploaded. --Janiejac 09:54, 6 January 2012 (EST)

Splitsen Gedcom [6 January 2012]

Hallo Klaas, Ik wil voor iemand een Gedcom uploaden echter hij heeft 15.000 personen in zijn GEdcom, Ik heb de database nu gesplitst door een kopie van de Gedcom te maken en dan 2/3 van de personen uit de personenlijst te verwijderen. Dit 1/3 deel heb ik nu geimporteerd, echter nu geeft Jennifer JBS66 misschien terecht aan dat het veel werk is om zometeen de andere delen weer te koppelen en dat hierdoor misschien dubbele families ontstaan? Weet u een manier om de Gedcom op nettere manier te splitsen met Aldfaer?

Groet Jaap-Sip Faber--Jsfaber 10:06, 6 January 2012 (EST)

Hallo Jaap-Sip jij hebt ook google+, kunnen we daar een hangout starten? Het is dan wel even gemakkelijker de vragen te bespreken.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 10:17, 6 January 2012 (EST)

De kinderen van Ype Lieuwes Douma en Ype Pieters Douma [15 January 2012]

Beste Ekjansen

U schreef: De kinderen van Ype Lieuwes Douma (Paesens, Oostdongeradeel), die waren ingevuld onder Ype Pieters Douma (Nes, Westdongeradeel) heb ik gecorrigeerd.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 06:48, 11 December 2011 (EST)

Onderstaande tekst op https://sites.google.com/site/wijtskejousma/Genealogie/parenteel-jousma moet dan fout zijn! Is dit zo? BTW: Antje Ypes en Tjalling Ypes -en- Lieuwe Ypes en Froukje Ypes zouden tweelingen moeten zijn.]

V.108 Ype Pieters DOUMA, Agent van Politie en Landbouwer, geboren circa 1811 te Ee, overleden op 30-07-1886 te Westdongeradeel. Wonende te Metslawier en in Nes. IJpe is in 1841 vertrokken naar de Herv. Gemeente te Nes/Wierum. Hij was ook betrokken bij de arrestatie van de gehouden "Godsdienst-oefening" in Anjum bij Wiebe Geerts Spoelstra, winkelier en koopman. Zoon van Pieter Johannes DOUMA, landbouwer, en Antje Ypes ZIJLSTRA (zie IV.56). Gehuwd (1) op 09-06-1836 te Metslawier met Trijntje Gosses DOUMA, geboren 1813 te Anjum, overleden op 02-07-1839 te Metslawier, dochter van Gosse Douwes DOUMA, koemelker en koopman, en Menke Tjerks DOUMA. Gehuwd (2) op 17-07-1841 te Metslawier met Pietje Tjallings MEINDERTSMA, 36 jaar oud, Landbouwerse, geboren op 10-10-1804 te Paesens, gedoopt te Paesens. Wonende te Nes. Dochter van Tjalling Lieuwes MEINDERTSMA en Franske Pijts DIJKSTRA, Winkelierse. Uit het eerste huwelijk:

• 1. Pieter Ypes DOUMA, geboren op 01-08-1837 te Metslawier.

Uit het tweede huwelijk:

• 2. Antje Ypes DOUMA, geboren op 10-06-1842 te Nes, overleden op 08-05-1843 te Westdongeradeel, 332 dagen oud.
• 3. Tjalling Ypes DOUMA, geboren op 10-06-1842 te Nes. Tjalling is op 12-05-1869 vertrokken naar Visvliet.
• 4. Antje Ypes DOUMA, geboren op 24-12-1844 te Nes. Antje en Johannes zijn op 29-04-1871 vertrokken naar Kollum.

Relatie met Johannes Willems de WENDT, Gardenier, geboren op 28-05-1840 te Ternaard.

• 5. Sibbeltje Ypes DOUMA, geboren circa 1845, overleden op 03-07-1854 te Oostdongeradeel.
• 6. Lieuwe Ypes DOUMA, geboren op 05-05-1847 te Nes, overleden op 12-05-1848 te Westdongeradeel op 1-jarige leeftijd.
• 7. Lieuwe Ypes DOUMA, geboren circa 1848, overleden op 16-03-1854 te Oostdongeradeel.
• 8. Froukje Ypes DOUMA, geboren circa 1848, overleden op 25-01-1885 te Oostdongeradeel.
• 9. Baukje Ypes DOUMA, geboren circa 1852, overleden op 19-06-1852 te Oostdongeradeel.
• 10. Lieuwe Ypes DOUMA, geboren circa 1855, overleden op 01-08-1866 te Oostdongeradeel.

Met vriendeljke groet, Edeetje.--Edeetje 16:24, 15 January 2012 (EST)

Kinderen 5 en 7-10 zijn van Ype Lieuwes Douma. In de parenteel Jousma zijn de gezinnen van Ype Pieters Douma en Ype Lieuwes Douma samengevoegd, maar een snellecontrole via genlias of tresoar maakt duidelijk hoe het werkelijk in elkaar zit. --Klaas (Ekjansen) 17:28, 15 January 2012 (EST)

Heel veel Early personen [19 January 2012]

Ik heb heel veel "Early" personen in deze Gedcom, Is er ook een manier om die toch dmv importeren in Werelate te krijgen, het zou wel heel erg veel werk zijn om die allemaal handmatig in te voeren. groet Jaap-Sip Faber (ik help Jaap Heeringa)--JS 18:21, 18 January 2012 (EST)

De regel is: personen met een of ander datum na 1749 worden geimporteerd. Vroegere niet.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 00:30, 19 January 2012 (EST)

Engbert Lieuwes [23 jan 2012]

Beste Klaas, Engbert Lieuwes gedoopt op 10-05-1744 te Anjum en Engbert Lieuwes Botma zijn een en dezelfde persoon. Hoe kun je twee personen samenvoegen? Zie ook gegevens parenteel Jousma (https://sites.google.com/site/wijtskejousma/Genealogie/parenteel-jousma) Tegelijkertijd vraag ik me af of het niet makkelijker is om in een keer al mijn gegevens (52298 personen) doormiddel van een Gedcom bestand toe te voegen aan WeRelate. Het zal wel even een klus zijn (uitzoeken plaatsnamen en Family Matches) maar dan staan alle personen er in een keer in. Als ik nu een parenteel Jousma zou toevoegen heb je voor een deel te maken met personen die ik net heb toegevoegd via mijn kwartierstaat Jousma.--Wijtske 15:29, 23 January 2012 (EST)

Hendrik Everts Dekker and Annegje de Boer [16 February 2012]

Hello, EKJansen,

Is one of your families the parents of my twins Meine and Eevert Dekker?

Aktenummer A 30 Noordwolde says that the parents of my twins are Hendrik Everts Dekker and Annegjen Meinen. The father's name matches, and since you do not have a patronymic for Annegje De Boer I cannot say whether that matches. Do you have more information to resolve this? --Pkeegstra 17:31, 15 February 2012 (EST)

Ah, I think I see what's going on. Still, wouldn't Annegje take the patronymic of her paternal grandfather in that case? --Pkeegstra 17:38, 15 February 2012 (EST)

You are right. Hendrik Everts Dekker & Annigje Meinen de Boer are the parents of your twins Meine and Eevert Dekker. I made some additions. --Klaas (Ekjansen) 18:16, 15 February 2012 (EST)

Thank you! It looks very good. (I'm glad it wasn't what I thought.) There are more Hendriks Dekker children in GENLIAS, so I'll add them tonight or tomorrow. --Pkeegstra 19:44, 15 February 2012 (EST)

Frank and Nellie Prins [1 March 2012]

You found Nellie and Frank for me! Thank you so much! Those were major brain-breakers for me. I ordered their death certificates thinking they would help, so I should be able to complete their pages once those show up. I'll rename them to their Netherlands birth names when I get the chance. --Pkeegstra 09:34, 1 March 2012 (EST)

I enjoy it to find the links between the Netherlands and the United States. Further I found that Nellie Prins has a common ancestor with me, if you look at her matrilineal line you will hit Antje Klazes Hoekstra, her ggf is the one where my name Klaas comes from.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 09:42, 1 March 2012 (EST)

Fincrest Cemetery [11 March 2012]

Hi! I saw your page for Fincrest Cemetery. Could that actually be "Fircrest" Cemetery? I could find no Fincrest in FindAGrave, but there is a Fircrest Cemetery in FindAGrave and on Island County, WA GenWeb. Thanks. -- Amy (Ajcrow) 10:33, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

You are absolutely right--Klaas (Ekjansen) 10:35, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

I renamed the page and updated the links on the 3 Person pages that were connected to it. Also added link to FindAGrave and the listing on Island Co WA GenWeb. -- Amy (Ajcrow) 12:45, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

Which Grietje de Vries is Mrs. Cornelius Holtrop? [15 March 2012]

Klaas, I am looking for the wife of Cornelius (Kornelis) Holtrop. She is probably named Grietje de Vries, either her or her. The first one is from a family of yours, so I was hoping you might have insight. (I've checked both Netherlands and Michigan for a marriage record between Grietje and Kornelis, and found it neither place.) --Pkeegstra 10:26, 14 March 2012 (EDT)

There are some clues on this website. It shows a Grietje van der Vries born in Groningen on the 19th Apr 1847. It says she married a Kornelis Holtrop in Grand Haven, Michigan in 1867 (here is the FS record for their marrage). --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:16, 14 March 2012 (EDT)

Thank you so much! So I guess it wasn't either of the people I suggested. (I still do wonder if they did go to America, though, since I found no Netherlands marriage or death records for either of them.) BTW, the Jack Kuipers the site mentions was professor of mathematics at Calvin College and a well-known proponent of quaternions. And before seeing that site I had no proof that the Holtrops I was working on were directly linked to the huge family of John and Effie (Bishop) Holtrop. --Pkeegstra 20:43, 14 March 2012 (EDT)

You are welcome! I found the death dates for both Grietje's (they both died young). --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:12, 15 March 2012 (EDT)

I saw that. Thanks for tracking it down. --Pkeegstra 14:14, 15 March 2012 (EDT)

Verplaatsen [21 March 2012]

Beste Klaas wil je Place:Begraafplaats Eikelenburg, Rijswijk, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands terug zetten naar Zuid-Holland. En zo ook met Place:Rijswijk, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands deze zijn zonder visum op stap gegaan. Groet,--Lidewij 17:59, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

Klaas de pagina's hebben eigenlijk geen geschiedenis, ik ga de tekst wel verplaatsen.--Lidewij 18:14, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

Jij bent snel. Place:Rijswijk, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands hoeft niet weg die maak ik nu wel gelijk juist aan. --Lidewij 18:19, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

ok, ik laat je wel alles weer in orde brengen, maar de begraafplaats heb ik al aangepast.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 18:22, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

Dank. Op wikipedia mag je de tekst niet van de geschiedenis scheiden. Maar hier lijkt me dat een minder groot probleem. Sorry voor het ongemak. Groet, --Lidewij 18:32, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

I'm trying to figure out why Begraafplaats Eikelenburg is still showing up under Place:Rijswijk, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands instead of Place:Rijswijk, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands. I'll see what I can do to fix this. --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:35, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

I just moved it because my sources said that Rijswijk was only in Zuid-Holland for a few months in 1815-1816. Did I misunderstand my sources? --Pkeegstra 19:52, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

In the Netherlands there are at least 3 places called Rijswijk. Rijswijk close to 's-Gravenhage is the largest one, the cemetery Eikelenburg is in this place. Rijswijk, now part of Woudrichem is a small former municipality in Noord-Brabant. The Northwestern part of Noord-Brabant was part of Zuid-Holland till the Land van Altena became part of Noord-Brabant in 1815. The 3rd place Rijswijk is in Gelderland, this village was part of Beusichem, later (from 1817) Maurik and now (since 1999) in the municipality of Buren.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 20:10, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

Oops. Is or was the first one (bij 's-Gravenhage) ever a gemeente? --Pkeegstra 20:40, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

Rijswijk is a gemeente with about 46000 inhabitants.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 20:47, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

Thanks! I hope that's the only case like that in Zuid-Holland. It really is the worst case scenario. My standard approach given a place name has been to scan the NL Wikipedia list of former gemeenten. For those few cases where a gemeente has never been involved in a merger, I will note that it is completely missing, and know to look on the list of active gemeenten. But in this case I did see a reference to Rijswijk in the former gemeente page, so I never made it to the active gemeente page to find the other one. (I'll fix up both Rijswijk pages by using "see also" to list the other one, and describe the distinction more fully in the text.) Incidentally, for comparison, Muskegon, Michigan has about 38000 people.

http://www.werelate.org/wiki/User:Lidewij/Plaatsnamen#Gemeentelijke herindeling in Nederland --Lidewij 13:36, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

Klaas, hoe ver gaan we vooruit lopen?

Source:Midden-Delfland,_Zuid-Holland,_Netherlands._Burgerlijke_StandMvg, --Lidewij 17:04, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

Charlois was van < 1200 een dorp en tot 1895 een gemeente. Pkeegstra heeft deze gemeente helemaal onder Rotterdam gezet. Dat kriebelt een beetje bij mij, wat vindt jij? Place:Charlois, Rotterdam, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands

Ik ben nog niet overtuigd, dat we alle gemeenten naar aanleiding van nieuwe herindelingen moeten aanpassen, die worden toch weer steeds aangepast totdat er tenslotte nog maar een gemeente overblijft heb ik de indruk. Ik zou die gemeenten liever willen laten staan als voormalige gemeente. Maar ik ben nu met vacantie in Australië en vlieg morgen naar Nieuw Zeeland, dus van mij kun je de volgende 2 maanden niet veel verwachten, en uiteindelijk is Jennifer eigenlijk een beetje de baas voor Nederlandse gemeenten en bronnen. Met Charlois ofwel Saarloos in de volksmond is het wel een probleem gezien de regel, dat de situatie 1900 als uitgangspunt genomen wordt, en toen was Charlois dus al bij Rotterdam.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 19:42, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

Leffert Jans Lefferts and Leffert Jans Mulder [28 March 2012]

Are Leffert Jans Lefferts and Leffert Jans Mulder the same person? They both marry Geesje Wolters Molenkamp on 11 MAY 1822. (The Mulder wedding is Havelte, Drenthe 1822 Aktenummer: 8.)

(I'm systematically enumerating all the Jantje Mulders born 1861-1863 to see which one emigrated and married my Uncle Hessel.)

--Pkeegstra 10:26, 28 March 2012 (EDT)

They appear to be the same family. I merged them together, but I kept the Lefferts surname because that is the surname that was used at the time of his death. --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:35, 28 March 2012 (EDT)

That makes sense. It looks like he had more children named Lefferts, too, both before and after the one child he named Mulder. Can anyone give a guess as to why? --Pkeegstra 12:48, 28 March 2012 (EDT)

On the Birth registration, he called himself Mulder, I put the link on the talk page of the younger Mulder When I took a look on the next child Geesje (the family has moved then from Steenwijkerwold to Havelte, he called himself Lefferts)I further noticed that he was farmer first in Steenwijkerwold and labourer in Havelte. I'm wondering if he was Farmer/miller (mulder) first in Steenwijkerwold lost his mill, moved to Havelte and because he was no longer a miller, he did't name himself Mulder anymore. (Wat denk jij Klaas?)--henk 13:18, 28 March 2012 (EDT)

Klaas is on vacation for a little while, so his response may be delayed. I wonder if this has anything to do with the farm names that were apparently used in Overijssel. I don't have experience with Overijssel research, so I'm not sure if that applies here. --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:34, 28 March 2012 (EDT)

No, I don't think so Mulder is just the name of an occupation, and Overijssel is difficult to research, coincedence (is that correct) the Jantje Mulder Pkeegstra is searching seems to come from Avereest (which is in Overijssel)--henk 13:45, 28 March 2012 (EDT)

GEDCOM Export Ready [8 April 2012]

The GEDCOM for tree Holland is ready to download. Click here.

[5 May 2012]

Ik wilde een gedcom maken van mijn familie stamboom. Nu blijkt dat dat niet mogelijk is. Mijn stamboom staat in ieder geval niet meer in mijn dashboard.

Ook als ik in de list kijk, komen er geen namen tevoorschijn. Bovendien zie ik dat bij familieleden rechts staat: watching Smidtman Ekjansen. Wil dit zeggen dat mijn stamboom is over genomen door anderen? Zo niet, waar kan ik dsn mij boom vinden? Om er alsnog een gedcom van te maken?

Vreemde gang van zaken.--SjoerdJelle 19:12, 3 May 2012 (EDT)

Responded on user's talk page. --Jennifer (JBS66) 01:54, 5 May 2012 (EDT)

[28 May 2012]

Hoi Klaas

De kinderen van de familie Meindert en Jentje Jansma zijn geboren in Veenklooster waarvan het oostelijk deel kadastraal onder Oudwoude valt.

Groeten Tjisse--Tp 02:52, 28 May 2012 (EDT)

In de akte staat Oudwoude, maar Veenklooster is dan nog beter.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 02:54, 28 May 2012 (EDT)

Venneman [28 May 2012]

Hi. My name is Tara Venneman Cromer.

I have been doing research on my family for about two years. I just stumbled across the Netherlands website, http://www.genlias.nl, that has information that may link me to my 2nd great grandfather, Leonard Venneman. He arrived in America in 1852 and is the father of my great grandfather, Nicholas Venneman.

I see that you are watching the information on Leendert Venneman from Holland. If you have any additional information that you have found in regard to him could you please contact me? I am interested in tracing this line back as far as possible.

Sincerely, Tara Cromer--Tmcromer 15:26, 28 May 2012 (EDT)

Sijtske Jans wrong date? [30 May 2012]

I noticed you just added a christening date of "!5 JAN 1775" for Sijtske. I assume that should be "15" (typo), but another day is also possible. I did not correct it as I do not have the source information.--Lvanhelden 10:51, 30 May 2012 (EDT)

I have changed the date.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 11:53, 30 May 2012 (EDT)

Johan Karel Heinrich Enter [11 June 2012]

Is the person in the subject line the same person as Hendrik Enter the father of Harm and Christiaan. I see the longer name in the marriage record. (This is the family of the wife of the well-known CRC minister Idzerd Van Dellen. A dorm at Calvin College is named for him.) --Pkeegstra 12:43, 11 June 2012 (EDT)

http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Ytje_Harmens_%281%29 [23 June 2012]

Hallo,

dat andere huwelijk van Yttje Harmens ken ik niet. Weet je zeker dat het dezelfde Yttje is?

Zou het wel interessant maken, want de in dat eerdere huwelijk genoemde zoon http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Harmen_Meinsma_%281%29 wordt na overlijden Sijtse en Yttje in 1808 de voogd over de twee kinderen uit het huwelijk tussen Yttje en Sytse...

daarvan is een autorisatie bekend van 27 mei 1808.

en dit is huwelijk in 1786 van Yttje en Sijtse: zie http://www.sijtsma.com/sytsma.ppt (slide 14)

Hartelijke groet,

Paul--Pasij 11:29, 23 June 2012 (EDT)

Ik ga ervan uit, dat Yttje Harmens de verbinding was tussen 'voogd' Harmen Hendriks Meinsma en de kinderen Sytsma. Bij de akte van naamsaanneming van Hendrik Zytsma is Harmen Meinsma ook de voogd van Hendrik Zytsma. Ik ben ervan overtuigd, dat Yttje 2x getrouwd was.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 11:35, 23 June 2012 (EDT)

Dan ben ik zeer benieuwd naar de bron van dat andere huwelijk; kan ik mijn eigen databse ook bijwerken. Ik heb haar ouders ook bijgevoegd, daar verschijnen dan wel 2 yttjes..

tot slot nog een aantal interessante relaties daar: Sijtse Jelles, de familie Harmens en de familie Groen zijn nogal met elkaar verbonden. Jacob Clases, Jelle Haies en Harmen Jans moeten elkaar wel gekend hebben. Want hun kinderen en kleinkinderen trouwen met elkaar . Zoon Sytse van Jelle trouwt met dochter Yttje van Harmen. Zoon Meindert van Harmen trouwt met dochter Orsel van Jacob. Kleinzoon Jelle van Jelle trouwt met kleindochter van Jacob: Tietje.

Als die eerste man van Ytjje , Hendrik Jacobs, dan ook nog een zoon van Jacob Claes is, wordt het nog erger... :-)

De kinderen van Yttje uit haar eerste huwelijk heten Harmen, Aafke, Antje en Japke, bij haar 2e huwelijk wordt geen van haar ouders venoemd. Haar ouders heetten Harmen en Aafke, de ouders van Hendrik Jacobs heetten Jacob => Japke en Antje als ze volgens traditie vernoemd hebben. Ik heb een Hendrik als zoon van Jacob Rielefs en Antje Melles gedoopt 1740 in Lioessens gevonden. Dat zouden dus de grootouders van Harmen Hendriks Meinsma kunnen zijn, maar het bewijs moet nog geleverd worden.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 12:22, 23 June 2012 (EDT)

[1 August 2012]

Beste Klaas, zo heet je denk ik. Dank voor de correctie van Eygelkamp in Eykelkamp, ik ben een absolute beginner in we relate en durf niet aan gegevens van andere stambomen te komen, als ik al weet hoe dat moet! groeten Ria Reis--Rreis 13:31, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

dank je wel! Ik kom ongetwijfeld nog wel om raad vragen. Ria--Rreis 17:30, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

unknown father [7 August 2012]

My grandmother Hendrika Fennema was not married. How can I start a new page with her born daughter, my mother? The system asks me to name the husband, but I don't know his name at all. Can you help? Kind regards from Beatrijs.--Beatrijs 05:27, 7 August 2012 (EDT)

Answered on user-talk-page--Klaas (Ekjansen) 05:48, 7 August 2012 (EDT)

Simon Hoekstra b. 19 May 1918 [19 August 2012]

I have amended this entry as date of death is not verified. Who submitted this please? I am son of this person and accurate data is my knowledge.

Regards Pieter--Prozac 04:49, 19 August 2012 (EDT)

I received this information from a person who made an overview of the Woudwijk family. He must have this information from heresay because no sources are mentioned. But if you take a look at this website: Geslachtsregister familie Hoekstra afkomstig uit Morra you will find the same date, but also details about living people which is not according the WeRelate rules. In case the date is wrong, I would like you to enter the correct date or at least confirm that your father died so we can leave his birth-information visible on this website. Thank you for your assistance.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 05:16, 19 August 2012 (EDT)

Hi Klaas,

I was unaware that Harke had submitted this data and therefore I assumed it had been lifted without permission. I know Harke and I provided this information to him originally when we were doing some detective work on this stamboom. As such he has my permission to provide this to you and I agree you may re-instate this data. It was a bit confronting to me when I first saw it displayed. Thank you for your prompt reply. Best regards Pieter--Prozac 07:30, 19 August 2012 (EDT)

One Zwaantien Rozeboom or Two? [20 August 2012]

The 1809 marriage register (which I improvised a source citation for) suggests that this was her first marriage, but everything else for Zwaantien Roseboom looks very simiar to Zwaantien Rozeboom. I couldn't find a death for Albert Habers to see if it was before or after 1809. Followup to Person talk:Zwaantien Roseboom (1) --Pkeegstra 14:06, 20 August 2012 (EDT)

When Zwaantje marries Jan Roelofs Strijker she is Jongedochter which means this is her first marriage. I could not find another proof. But I also agree with you, she is really about to be the same.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 14:56, 20 August 2012 (EDT)

I found this link which says she is just one person: Roseboom bur no sources.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 15:00, 20 August 2012 (EDT)

P.S. I also wonder if Family:Roelof Strijker and Hillechien Hendriks (1) and Family:Roelof Strijker and Hillegijn Pit (1) are really the same couple.

Yes these are identical, I merged them.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 14:53, 20 August 2012 (EDT)

[27 aug 2012]

Hoi Klaas, wat doen we met Eelde-Paterswolde. Deze samenvoeging is er door de robot WeRelate agent bijgezet. De samenvoeging bestaat dacht ik zo’n 15 jaar. Volgens mij wordt deze naam niet in akten gebruikt en kan hij beter weg voor dat er weer mensen in 1830 worden geboren. Groet, Lidewij 04:25, 27 August 2012 (EDT)

Do we have a Dyk/Diek Connection in Uelsen, Germany? [31 August 2012]

Jennigje Dyk of the Broenes was born 1830 in Uelsen and has a father named Gerrit Hendrik Dyk. You have a Gerrit Hindrik Diek. Is there a connection there? He could just barely be her father, or perhaps older brother.--Pkeegstra 15:35, 31 August 2012 (EDT)

P.S. The huwelijk akte for Johanna Berendina Dijk in Genlias names her mother as Geertruida Voorwinkel. Is there some reason to disbelieve that?

for more details use this link: http://www.online-ofb.de/famlist.php?ofb=uelsen&b=&modus=

Voorwinkel etc is married to another Gerrit Hendrik Diek/Dijk see at the same link above: Vowinkel.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 15:48, 31 August 2012 (EDT)

Thank you for the link! It looks like the two Gerrit Hindriks are first cousins, common ancestor a grandparent of the same name married to Hendrikjen Spaling. --Pkeegstra 18:17, 31 August 2012 (EDT)

My details [11 September 2012]

As I have noticed that "my" details are used, I left the detail there, because I don't know how important that is for the person is who wrote it. Should I replace "my" details in the future? See b.v. Gaatze Visbeek.--Beatrijs 00:35, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

Mysources are often the results of gedcom-uploads before it has been changed in citation only. So as far as my mysources are concerned: if you can please do replace it with the real source or real description as needed for a source. MySource is meant for real special sources which are not just for general use or interest but of importance for the sourced detail. So if a mysource(Ekjansen) occurs please do replace.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 01:01, 11 September 2012 (EDT)

Leendert van Heest [16 September 2012]

Klaas,

Is there any chance that your Leendert van Heest might be a match for one of mine: either this one or his grandfather? --Pkeegstra 10:34, 15 September 2012 (EDT)

P.S. Could this person's geboorte record be intended to read "Tjimkje" like her maternal aunt? That would explain some of the Ancestry matches, e.g. "Fempkje" in the 1920 census ('F' for 'T') and "Tempktje" for her Ontario, Canada marriage. --Pkeegstra 13:49, 15 September 2012 (EDT)

I think the name should be Iemkje, a name coming from the Boonstra family (her father's grandmother)--Klaas (Ekjansen) 01:57, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

Thanks! I was confused because the evidence pointed both ways, but Iemkje makes more sense to be turned into the Americanized name Edith than a name starting in a consonant. --Pkeegstra 06:35, 16 September 2012 (EDT)

marriages within WeRelate [17 September 2012]

I don't know how to connect a marriage between a daughter and a son of 2 different existing families.

Example: I have here Huwelijksakte Dantumadeel, 1877 Bruidegom: Hessel Harmens Dijkstra, oud 29 jaar, geboren te Murmerwoude

   Vader: Harmen Sakes Dijkstra
  Moeder: Akke Binnes Dantuma

   Bruid: Stijntje Sikkes Wiersma, oud 22 jaar, geboren te Murmerwoude
   Vader: Sikke Tjibbes Wiersma
  Moeder: Gertje Bienses Cijffers
   Datum: 10 mei 1877, akte nr. 15

Both names of the bride and groom are already indexed, I just don't know how to get them together, please help. Thanks, Beatrijs--Beatrijs 01:13, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

You may select one of the partners, I would advise Hessel Harmens Dijkstra. Next you click Add Spouse and Children (down to the right underneath the list of the siblings). The next screen offers you the possibility to enter the name of his wife and the marriage date. And than you will see a list of possible matches (without any real match) with clicking add page the next question is if you want to add a page for Stijntje Wiersma and than you will find a match and you can select the right person.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 01:26, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

Thank you, it worked!--Beatrijs 02:26, 17 September 2012 (EDT)

Gerben Wybenga deceased 1952 [30 September 2012]

Klaas,

I found a death record for a Gerben Wijbenga deceased Ferwerderadeel 1952 akte 65, and am a bit confused by it.

It lists his parents as Johannes Hilbrands Wybenga and Meiltje van der Velde, but Meiltje was married to Johannes Brants Wijbenga (3 years older and at best distantly related). Johannes Hilbrands Wijbenga as per the record married Ymkje Rodenhuis; that family is not yet on WeRelate. I see Gerben Johannes Brants Wijbenga (double patronymic for disambiguation) is on WeRelate with a death date corresponding to the above 1952 akte. So is the Hilbrands instead of Brants merely a clerical error?

Many thanks!

--Pkeegstra 17:01, 24 September 2012 (EDT)

The father of Gerben was named Brants in his marriage record but Hilbrands in some birth records. Brant is the short form of Hilbrand. I checked the records. and Gerben is the son of Johannes as recorded in WeRelate. The other Johannes Hilbrands who marries Ymkje Rodenhuis is a different person with the same patronyme.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 01:44, 30 September 2012 (EDT)

Thanks! I copied this to Gerben's talk page for future reference. --Pkeegstra 17:08, 30 September 2012 (EDT)

European Nobility [2 November 2012]

Hello There! It's great to see someone - who might actually be familiar with the geography - taking an interest in these spaces. I saw, with some interest, your changes to Person:William, Prince of Orange (1). What you're doing sort of looks cool - but do you think it would be a problem if it were extracted as a GEDCOM? I'm also - it may surprise you - not of the belief that Wikipedia in its various forms is really a genealogical source - but I'm concerned about maintaining the association - and also maintaining it across GEDCOM extractions.

Would very much like to hear your views... --jrm03063 13:24, 31 October 2012 (EDT)

I have left the names of the records untouched. Only William III - I added his name in the name-field - that was just empty. So as far as I leave the English-WP-name and also the connection I think there won't be a problem with gedcom-export. I added just Text with the official names in the homecountries (Netherlands, Germany and France have been involved). So this additional names will just be transported as a Note. I do have the latest editions of the Nederland's Adelsboek. In every subsequent volume the Dutch royal family is actualised, so I take from there the official names. I am not sure if I should place this official name also as an alt-name. I am not really enjoying lots of alt-names. I think the name in the regional language where the people lived and worked should be named different instead of just alt-name.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 00:23, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

I generally agree. When I do a fresh add of WP pages, I don't worry about that much - and just get the person in there as it's used on the english WP page - but that's just a starting point. I think the preferred form (page name and primary name on the person page) should be as it would have been represented in the most native context - and if there would have been an accepted given/surname representation - using that. I've used a lot of alternate forms in these spaces not because I'm fond of them, but because many pages are the result of merges from GEDCOMs that contained different forms, and I try to preserve things if I can't reason about what the best choice is. If you feel you have a better handle on those forms, by all means.

At present, the english WP association is a product of the inclusion - but we need a better way to do that too - inclusion isn't always a good choice and is not entirely without controversy.... --jrm03063 09:31, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

The controversy is discussed by now on the watercooler. We also made a Dutch translation of the 3 choices that started the interesting discussion. But as far as I can see by now, the Dutch users of WP are not really involved with WP-connections.

If we keep to the convention (is this an offical rule?) for WP-included people, to make the personal record-name and the preferred given/surname identical, I would prefer that the first alt-name is the real name in the original setting maybe restricted to certain languages. For me the mixup of surname and function is not correct. My example Elisabeth Stuart her 'surname' should be Stuart, queen of Bohemia is a name deriving from her husband's short intermezzo in Prague. I started with a few people of the House of Orange-Nassau a certain way to place the name in one line and the titles underneath, anyway while writing this I should add also the 'surname' for these morebetter people. But I am not convinced yet if this really works.

I would like to show my idea with the following: Friedrich Wilhelm von Brandenburg. His official surname is von Brandenburg, since 1640 Markgraf von Brandenburg, Erzkämmerer (I don't know the English not even Dutch translation of this) and Kurfürst (Elector), and Herzog(Duke) in Preussen. So in the name we should not write Markgraf or Kurfürst or Herzog but be strict and think of them as if they where normal citizens.

In my opinion the english WP-Title is not correct, but I can agree to follow this, but in the second line (native name) the real name should be, well I think for this person the altnames 1 & 2 can be removed anyway.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 12:45, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

I am sure you have a better handle on the common native forms for names. I am happy if you bring that knowledge to bear on bad english translations. I also agree that - where a "common" (as you say, private citizen) form of a noble's name, can be deduced (and in their native language) - that is ABSOLUTELY preferable. Use of the "WP name" - was an accepted departure from standard norms - mostly so that I could more easily add people as I worked through WP biographies - trying to de-duplicate the mess that arrived by way of large GEDCOMs in the early days of WeRelate. I initially thought that the English WP names were pretty good, but I've changed my opinion. For several years now, I've been of the opinion that they were ok as starting points - but generally not a finished product.

I think I have misinterpreted you before we started this discussion and I am happy to find we have a broad common opinion on the use of names from WP. So I can fully agree to use the WP-names till the better version comes up, is traced sounds better, and than change to that name, without breaking the link to WP.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 04:32, 2 November 2012 (EDT)

I agree that trying to turn titles of nobility into those of ordinary civilians is going to be tricky - and perhaps not always possible. At least we have enough of a database of people, across various places and periods of history, to see if there will be general practices that might work. --jrm03063 19:55, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

It will be not general applicable to manage the European nobility as civilians. But for the family structure I do prefer one von Brandenburg family and not several 'families'called Elector of Brandenburg, Count of Brandenburg and all other possible variations. That is the reason why I would like to remove those earned, captured or stolen titles. With the British nobility this will be a different theme because the surnames differ fully from the titles: surname Spencer-Churchill, but Dukes of Marlborough as their nobility mark. I think this can only be applicable for a certain period and for a restricted area of Europe.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 04:32, 2 November 2012 (EDT)

Separately formatted titles for nobility - also other WP forms [3 November 2012]

I don't mean to be a wet blanket - but shouldn't the various official titles be established as facts - and not as bullet items in the narrative body? If what you're doing is experimental, by all means proceed - but I'm concerned that the information isn't going to be handled nicely in an exported GEDCOM. Also, as we start to write programs that are able to perform analysis on the database, facts such as those are not going to be identifiable and usable there either.

I agree that what you've done is, perhaps, more cosmetically appealing. If you think that titles of nobility should be displayed separately from other facts, then perhaps we should ask Dallan to create a different fact type and make the page display smart enough to tease them out?

I agree, the better should be a separate fact type for nobility titles, maybe even different fact types because the British nobility differs in nameing strongly from the continental European tradition, lacking this I preferred to make a readable list in the descriptive text. I don't think that it is useful to make a lot of altnames for the different titles. That discussion should be moved to the watercooler and also the Dutch forum.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 04:06, 2 November 2012 (EDT)

I'm afraid I will be unable to help with a discussion over there. Do you want to mull this some more, or should I perhaps start writing a proposal that could be offered to Dallan? After you review it at least? --jrm03063 10:29, 2 November 2012 (EDT)

I've scratched out This Document suggesting techniques for accomplishing this. Please let me know how the Dutch discussion goes and what you would like to feedback into that document. If/when your community is satisfied, I can forward it to Dallan and add it as a formal suggestion. Does this seem like a good approach? --jrm03063 11:54, 2 November 2012 (EDT)

???

With respect to different language versions of Wikipedia - I'm wondering about general techniques for handling the entire set of WP language variants. One of the things that the different flavors of WP seem to do well (as far as I can tell) is to track situations where there are multiple language variants of the same page. I'm not at all against bringing other language versions of WP in - but I think we should approach the issue systematically. I'm also advised that - in cases where there are multiple language variants for a page - there is typically one that is the "primary" - being the location of the most vigorous research activity. Perhaps what we really want to do is to associate places and people (when appropriate) with only that "primary" WP page. Perhaps the included segment comes from the "primary" page, but we also create that template/banner with icons that give access to some of the other common language forms?

This is a point to discuss in another setting, watercooler, to come to a general convention about the use of WP-links in other languages and also to define which version is preferable for certain groups of people. It is always possible to use the translate-function or jump to the English version (if existent), there we have just the moreinfo template available which is satisfactious for me.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 04:06, 2 November 2012 (EDT)

???

--jrm03063 19:40, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

I agree with Klaas that a title should not be mentioned in the name space and further I think that the original language has to be used more often, but since we have a "watercooler" WeRelate talk:Nederlands Discussieforumfor the Dutch speaking why not having this discussion there? --henk 01:39, 2 November 2012 (EDT)

Henk: deze discussie is uitgegroeid, en ik vind het juist een discussie op het Nederlands forum te starten. Later op de dag zal ik er wel aan toe komen, maar misschien ben jij sneller...--Klaas (Ekjansen) 04:06, 2 November 2012 (EDT)

I'm in agreement with you - except that I'm one of those nasty Americans who only speaks our narrow version of English! Sorry about that! Like I mention above - I see the use of all the English WP names as an initial stage that allowed me to do a lot of work de-duplicating and extending the tree over the last few years. I would love to find a way that we could use the different language variants of WP interchangeably. For example - in a perfect world - it might be nice if users could set a language preference and get the WP extract that they wanted - or failing that the WP extract that represents the "primary" page (the language version where the most active scholarship activity is happening). It would also be nice to have handy and predictably located buttons to select the different language versions. --jrm03063 10:24, 2 November 2012 (EDT)

I want to comment about the proposed addition of an event for titles. I've been following this thread and read through WeRelate:Fact Subsets and Display. The GEDCOM standard has a tag for Title (Nobility) called TITL. This is not to be confused with the TITL tag for Sources. The Person TITL tag appears to act like our other events, in that date, place, and description fields are connected.

My suggestions would be:

1. Have Dallan change the Person page Name section to say Name prefix & Name suffix (instead of Title prefix/suffix).
2. Add an Events & Facts item in the drop-down box called Title (Nobility).
3. Connect this Title (Nobility) tag to the Person TITL tag in GEDCOM imports/exports.

I would also suggest that we incorporate the text on WeRelate:Fact Subsets and Display, in additions to our ideas here, into a suggestions page instead. --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:15, 3 November 2012 (EDT)

you're so great, thank you for being you! --henk 08:34, 3 November 2012 (EDT)

Next step: Review your GEDCOM [19 November 2012]

You're not done yet!

WeRelate is different from most family tree websites. By contributing to WeRelate you are helping to create Pando for genealogy, a free, unified family tree that combines the best information from all contributors.

Now that you have uploaded buseman.ged, your next step is to review what your pages will look like, review any potential warnings, and combine (merge) people in your GEDCOM with matching people already on WeRelate. You need to review your GEDCOM before it can finish importing. We will keep your GEDCOM in the queue for two weeks to give you time to review it.

Note: if your gedcom contains many errors or multiple families, we’d ask that you resolve and correct the errors, delete this gedcom and re-submit it without the errors before merging it with families already on WeRelate. If the gedcom is very large, we’d suggest breaking it up into separate files (or families) and importing them one at a time, which makes the review and correction process easier.

Click here to review your GEDCOM

Once you have finished your review and marked your GEDCOM Ready to import, one of our administrators will review your GEDCOM and finalize the import. This usually happens within 24 hours. You will receive a message here when the pages have been created.

--WeRelate agent 09:13, 19 November 2012 (EST)

buseman.ged Imported Successfully [19 November 2012]

The pages from your GEDCOM have been generated successfully. You may now:

• launch the Family Tree Explorer to navigate your tree
• view your network -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out to which other WeRelate users you are related.
• view related pages not in your tree -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out which people you are now related to that you can add to your tree (takes awhile to display for large trees).
• view a searchable list of the pages in your tree -- The searchable list will be available about an hour after your tree has been imported.

For questions or problems, leave a message for Dallan or send an email to dallan@WeRelate.org.

--WeRelate agent 09:58, 19 November 2012 (EST)

Date Formats? [27 November 2012]

Hi There! Not trying to be a pest - but I saw that you changed some dates that had the form "from nnnn to yyyy" into "nnnn-yyyy". I thought we were trying to standardize on what GEDCOM requires (which I thought was the former). I just want to do this "the right" way - and if I'm wrong, well...it wouldn't be the first time! What do you think? --jrm03063 11:47, 27 November 2012 (EST)

well you can be right, it depends what in WeRelate is anticipated in the GEDCOM-export syntax. So I don't mind to redo this small change. In my Dutch program 'Aldfaer' the years before 1000 are handled correctly by GEDCOM-export also if one drops the leading nil.--Klaas 11:54, 27 November 2012 (EST)

I think the current code is pretty dumb - just treats it as a string. There's an active suggestion that says we should standardize forms on upload. I know there's a lot more discussion elsewhere, but I don't remember where exactly.

Nothing Special... [14 December 2012]

I just wanted to say it's sort of thrilling to see the changes tick by on pages that I more-or-less mechanically started based on latent WP genealogy (I'll be punished some day for that phrase: "WP genealogy"!). I've always taken it as a given that wiki scholarship is fine with an incremental process. So I'm wondering, are you finding it easy to traverse the content that exists, revising as you go? I'm sure I couldn't read or understand the source you've been working from - but would it have been better if I had not pre-emptively added pages based on WP? Coming from my side - I know it's harder to - after the fact - find pages that already exist that have a corresponding WP page. There really isn't a systematic approach for that. Anyway...just wondering how you're finding it.

I also wanted to talk with someone about what to do with the various name fields - particularly the surname - when dealing with nobles. If I wrote a page or so on that, would you have interest & time to read and critique? Thanks! --jrm03063 10:43, 28 November 2012 (EST)

I do have a lot of these 'nobles' in my local database. Just to find out being related to the Dutch queen (38th degree) and so on. In the Dutch genealogical societies there have been circulating discs (pre-dvd-century) with the ancestry of the Dutch and Belgian royals as well as the descendants of Charlemagne. I just imported these (long ago, still being naive) in my database. That made my number of duplicates and triplicates roaring ahead. The more severe problem with these dates is the nameing of the persons and the quality of the dates. So I will not export a gedcom of nobles and import this into WeRelate.

Having said this, I am interested in the European nobility and do have some books which are useable as sources (2nd quality). I do prefer to use these books for the Dutch/Belgian and German nobility, but with the British and French I must stay back a bit. Coming to my favorites I can say, they are all members of 'Houses' like the house Brandenburg or the house Nassau etc. Usually the name of the house is used as surname, not reflecting if they were count or prince or duke. Only the kings and the few emperors lost their family-names and became the name of their kingdom as a kind of surname (Austria, France etc). The extra titles giving their position like count or prince should be separated from the surname. Also (in my opinion) the numbering like William III or Elizabeth II should not be a part of the given name. This way it makes of the Houses of Nobles also a family-group (category).

The use of WP as a basis for adding people to WeRelate is also in my opinion very helpful. I am only a bit afraid, that we leave these persons back with only WP-information. I would prefer to see the WP-info as a start and not as the end of the research. Further I do prefer to use the Dutch WP for the Dutch nobility, the German for the Germans and so on. I do trust the locals a bit more for they are closer to the sources. We have just to leave out the chauvinistic heroism (the French view of Napoleon differs from the British view) and keep to the facts.

If you write a page on the surnames and titles of the nobles, I would enjoy to read and give some annotations.--Klaas 01:56, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Thanks so much. My goal has always been to help more than I hurt, so I'm glad to find that I'm (probably, usually) helping. I've always felt that WP was a starting point - and while the reference/association should always be retained - the goal would be to supplement it such that it wasn't really needed as a genealogical source.

I also agree that we should (eventually) prefer the WP that is most "native" with respect to the subject (however, not an option for this linguistically challenged American). That said, there may be some situations where we need to know the page for a particular version of WP, even if the preferred version is something else. For example, there is some interest in making use of "dbpedia", which lets you perform database like searches on content in english wikipedia. Even if the preferred WP page were Dutch, we very well could still want to know with certainty the English version. But this might also be something that can be automatically determined - so perhaps its not an issue.

I'll try to scratch out a page on ideas for how to enter names and titles of nobles going forward, along with how to name the pages. I'm starting to finally have a chance to go back through some of the older pages where I de-duplicated and added WP years ago, and it would be nice if we started to have some better naming rules to rely upon. I am particularly concerned that I NOT propose anything that doesn't seem right to folks in Europe, who probably have a better handle on this anyway.

Best Regards, and Thanks! --jrm03063 11:46, 4 December 2012 (EST)

I gave this some thought, and decided that it was utterly premature to try to do something comprehensive. I am thinking that there might be something we can do of an incremental nature. While the people that we're considering don't have a surname in the modern sense, they often do have a recognized affiliation with a noble or royal house. Further, such membership inherits like a modern surname. Previously, I had started to avoid entering anything in the surname field for these sorts of people, since I didn't want to create meaningless and useless surname categories. What do you think of the following, as initial conventions:

• Nobles and royals without a conventional surname, will never make use of the surname field, except -
• When a noble or royal is the origin, or a member, of a known house of royalty or nobility, we will add - as an alternate name entry - a single entry using ONLY the surname field - with the value being the recognized house of nobility. The example I've just worked on is for the House of Hanau.
• Such a person would have, at most, a single entry for their noble house - and that would be the house of their birth.

??? --jrm03063 15:25, 14 December 2012 (EST)

Jan Aukes - Jan Aukes Jongsma + partner Grietje Annes Annema [16 December 2012]

Hi Klaas, hoe kan ik van deze 2 personen er 1 maken? Hetzelfde geldt voor partner Grietje Annes Annema met alt. name Meinsma. Graag hulp! Groeten van ..--Beatrijs 21:28, 15 December 2012 (EST)

I merged in the empty page for Jan Aukes. Is Meinsma a name Grietje Annes actually used, or is it some sort of typo? --Pkeegstra 08:08, 16 December 2012 (EST)

P.S. Is Jan Aukes Jongsma related? (It looks like he is if his ancestor Sikke Jans is the child of Jan Aukes and the brother of Auke Jans.)

Well now it seems all repaired. Meinsma is only once mentioned and must be a kind of misunderstanding by the official... (as usual). Annema is also not really her familyname, but more often mentioned and her sister Jeltje is also called Annema as wel as the children of her brother Tjeerd. The relationship you mentioned is correct. The Annema, Sikkema, Jongsma and Halbesma families from Dantumadeel are anabaptists (doopsgezind) and do have a lot of intermingling and therefore common ancestors which are described in the book of Tjoelker, W.J. : Wyger Folkerts en Mary Aebeles (you find it as source).--Klaas 12:11, 16 December 2012 (EST)

"Registratie" in Groningen Pre-1811 [21 December 2012]

I have a record from AlleGroningers for Family:Albert Bos and Elisabeth Jans (1) which is labelled "registratie". Is that equivalent to "attestatie", to be filed as "marriage license", or is it something different? (The record actually refers to an "attestatie" someplace else.) --Pkeegstra 20:29, 19 December 2012 (EST)

Thanks to the scan I read 'gekondigt' which means announced or proclamatie and see following dates: 27 Sep, 5 Nov, 12 Nov (these are the 3 formal needed 'proclamaties') and than met attestatie van hier te Saaxum gecopuleerd 19 Nov. In the Saaxum-book we can read they are in fact married the 27th of November. Registered means the first inscription (announcement, proclamatie), but not the wedding date.--Klaas 01:17, 20 December 2012 (EST)

Many thanks! --Pkeegstra 06:27, 20 December 2012 (EST)

I found another one. First I found the registratie in Uithuizen which looks like a pointer to the real action in Oosterwijtwerd. So I looked in Oosterwijtwerd and found what AlleGroningers calls a "huwelijk" there. Have I interpreted these correctly? --Pkeegstra 13:13, 20 December 2012 (EST)

The special thing is, only in Allegroningers they use registratie, the other only available records give 1st or 3rd proclamatie. Usually I use the Marriage licence event for the registratie. But that's no rule or convention for general use.--Klaas 01:12, 21 December 2012 (EST)

Next step: Review your GEDCOM [23 December 2012]

You're not done yet!

WeRelate is different from most family tree websites. By contributing to WeRelate you are helping to create Pando for genealogy, a free, unified family tree that combines the best information from all contributors.

Now that you have uploaded DouweGeerts.ged, your next step is to review what your pages will look like, review any potential warnings, and combine (merge) people in your GEDCOM with matching people already on WeRelate. You need to review your GEDCOM before it can finish importing. We will keep your GEDCOM in the queue for two weeks to give you time to review it.

Note: if your gedcom contains many errors or multiple families, we’d ask that you resolve and correct the errors, delete this gedcom and re-submit it without the errors before merging it with families already on WeRelate. If the gedcom is very large, we’d suggest breaking it up into separate files (or families) and importing them one at a time, which makes the review and correction process easier.

Click here to review your GEDCOM

Once you have finished your review and marked your GEDCOM Ready to import, one of our administrators will review your GEDCOM and finalize the import. This usually happens within 24 hours. You will receive a message here when the pages have been created.

--WeRelate agent 12:58, 23 December 2012 (EST)

DouweGeerts.ged Imported Successfully [23 December 2012]

The pages from your GEDCOM have been generated successfully. You may now:

• launch the Family Tree Explorer to navigate your tree
• view your network -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out to which other WeRelate users you are related.
• view related pages not in your tree -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out which people you are now related to that you can add to your tree (takes awhile to display for large trees).
• view a searchable list of the pages in your tree -- The searchable list will be available about an hour after your tree has been imported.

For questions or problems, leave a message for Dallan or send an email to dallan@WeRelate.org.

--WeRelate agent 16:06, 23 December 2012 (EST)

Romkje Tammes de Boer 24.7.1839 Dantumadeel [3 January 2013]

Hallo Klaas, allereerst een gelukkig Nieuw Jaar toegewenst! Kan je even kijken naar Romkje Tammes de Boer. Je hebt de naam en geboorte 2 x aangelegd. Ik wil er niet mee knoeien, ben niet goed in merging families :-) Kan je dat even nakijken? Hartelijke groeten van--Beatrijs 20:32, 2 January 2013 (EST)

Eveneens de beste wensen. Romkje was weliswaar niet dubbel, maar haar man en haar huwelijk. dat heb ik nu gerepareerd. Dank voor de tip.--Klaas 04:01, 3 January 2013 (EST)

Connecting Keympe Jacobs to Jacob Keimpes [4 January 2013]

Klaas, I see lots of websites with details about Auke Jacobs, but that's not the connection I need. I wonder if my nth great-grandfather Jacob Keimpes is related to, perhaps son of, Auke's brother Keympe Jacobs. My second cousin's private Ancestry tree says Jacob Keimpes was born in 1745. I see weddings for KEIMPE JAKOBS of Drachten in 1746 and KEIMPE JAKOBS of Kollum in 1727, but neither looks completely convincing. Any ideas? --Pkeegstra 20:59, 3 January 2013 (EST)

I searched for a Keimpe married to Jantje and one married to Aaltje, because the daughters were called Jantje and Aaltje. I found: Keimpe Hotses & Aaltie Hendriks, parents of NN, born 12 May 1741, christened Stiens 19 May 1782 (DTB 476). Ceijmpe Hotses & Aeltie Hendriks married in Menaldum 10 Aug 1732 (DTB 520). The Lidmaten of Stiens are not online (DTB 479) it would be useful to (let) search in the Lidmatenboek.--Klaas 01:55, 4 January 2013 (EST)

Thanks! I created this couple, and I think I found his parents. (I'm a bit confused as to why the son Wijberan had priority over Kempe.) --Pkeegstra 07:01, 4 January 2013 (EST)

Next step: Review your GEDCOM [4 January 2013]

You're not done yet!

WeRelate is different from most family tree websites. By contributing to WeRelate you are helping to create Pando for genealogy, a free, unified family tree that combines the best information from all contributors.

Now that you have uploaded JeuringNew.ged, your next step is to review what your pages will look like, review any potential warnings, and combine (merge) people in your GEDCOM with matching people already on WeRelate. You need to review your GEDCOM before it can finish importing. We will keep your GEDCOM in the queue for two weeks to give you time to review it.

Note: if your gedcom contains many errors or multiple families, we’d ask that you resolve and correct the errors, delete this gedcom and re-submit it without the errors before merging it with families already on WeRelate. If the gedcom is very large, we’d suggest breaking it up into separate files (or families) and importing them one at a time, which makes the review and correction process easier.

Click here to review your GEDCOM

Once you have finished your review and marked your GEDCOM Ready to import, one of our administrators will review your GEDCOM and finalize the import. This usually happens within 24 hours. You will receive a message here when the pages have been created.

--WeRelate agent 13:17, 4 January 2013 (EST)

JeuringNew.ged Imported Successfully [5 January 2013]

The pages from your GEDCOM have been generated successfully. You may now:

• launch the Family Tree Explorer to navigate your tree
• view your network -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out to which other WeRelate users you are related.
• view related pages not in your tree -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out which people you are now related to that you can add to your tree (takes awhile to display for large trees).
• view a searchable list of the pages in your tree -- The searchable list will be available about an hour after your tree has been imported.

For questions or problems, leave a message for Dallan or send an email to dallan@WeRelate.org.

--WeRelate agent 02:59, 5 January 2013 (EST)

Title Handling - Noble and otherwise.... [10 January 2013]

I recall a while back that you experimented with the handling of some titles for nobility/aristocracy. I roughly remember what it looked like, but I can't seem to find my way back to any of the example pages. Could you please remind me?

I was wondering if we could come up with a general approach to this, that would include other sorts of civil titles (M.D., M.P., PhD, etc., etc.). I was also wondering if this might include some approach to handling the house of nobility/aristocracy.

By the way, with respect to a noble or royal house - I was under the impression that this descended only through sons, that someone couldn't be part of more than one, and that women didn't really become members of a house by right of marriage. I've seen fragments that suggest otherwise. Do you have a sense for this?

Thanks! --jrm03063 17:37, 10 January 2013 (EST)

GEDCOM Export Ready [20 January 2013]

The GEDCOM for tree Friesland is ready to download. Click here.

Next step: Review your GEDCOM [25 January 2013]

You're not done yet!

WeRelate is different from most family tree websites. By contributing to WeRelate you are helping to create Pando for genealogy, a free, unified family tree that combines the best information from all contributors.

Now that you have uploaded rest 4851.ged, your next step is to review what your pages will look like, review any potential warnings, and combine (merge) people in your GEDCOM with matching people already on WeRelate. You need to review your GEDCOM before it can finish importing. We will keep your GEDCOM in the queue for two weeks to give you time to review it.

Note: if your gedcom contains many errors or multiple families, we’d ask that you resolve and correct the errors, delete this gedcom and re-submit it without the errors before merging it with families already on WeRelate. If the gedcom is very large, we’d suggest breaking it up into separate files (or families) and importing them one at a time, which makes the review and correction process easier.

Click here to review your GEDCOM

Once you have finished your review and marked your GEDCOM Ready to import, one of our administrators will review your GEDCOM and finalize the import. This usually happens within 24 hours. You will receive a message here when the pages have been created.

--WeRelate agent 01:13, 25 January 2013 (EST)

Another Ambiguous Marriage [28 January 2013]

Klaas,

I have another family with two sources having different marriage dates. Is it safe to assume in general for cases like this that the earlier is the "attestatie" and the later is the "bevestiging"? --Pkeegstra 10:40, 28 January 2013 (EST)

I suppose you are right. I assume the last date is the real wedding date.--Klaas 10:43, 28 January 2013 (EST)

Next step: Review your GEDCOM [29 January 2013]

You're not done yet!

WeRelate is different from most family tree websites. By contributing to WeRelate you are helping to create Pando for genealogy, a free, unified family tree that combines the best information from all contributors.

Now that you have uploaded fogelsangh 1005 personen (1).ged, your next step is to review what your pages will look like, review any potential warnings, and combine (merge) people in your GEDCOM with matching people already on WeRelate. You need to review your GEDCOM before it can finish importing. We will keep your GEDCOM in the queue for two weeks to give you time to review it.

Note: if your gedcom contains many errors or multiple families, we’d ask that you resolve and correct the errors, delete this gedcom and re-submit it without the errors before merging it with families already on WeRelate. If the gedcom is very large, we’d suggest breaking it up into separate files (or families) and importing them one at a time, which makes the review and correction process easier.

Click here to review your GEDCOM

Once you have finished your review and marked your GEDCOM Ready to import, one of our administrators will review your GEDCOM and finalize the import. This usually happens within 24 hours. You will receive a message here when the pages have been created.

--WeRelate agent 01:22, 29 January 2013 (EST)

Next step: Review your GEDCOM [29 January 2013]

You're not done yet!

WeRelate is different from most family tree websites. By contributing to WeRelate you are helping to create Pando for genealogy, a free, unified family tree that combines the best information from all contributors.

Now that you have uploaded Tuin argentinie met levenden 800 personen.ged, your next step is to review what your pages will look like, review any potential warnings, and combine (merge) people in your GEDCOM with matching people already on WeRelate. You need to review your GEDCOM before it can finish importing. We will keep your GEDCOM in the queue for two weeks to give you time to review it.

Note: if your gedcom contains many errors or multiple families, we’d ask that you resolve and correct the errors, delete this gedcom and re-submit it without the errors before merging it with families already on WeRelate. If the gedcom is very large, we’d suggest breaking it up into separate files (or families) and importing them one at a time, which makes the review and correction process easier.

Click here to review your GEDCOM

Once you have finished your review and marked your GEDCOM Ready to import, one of our administrators will review your GEDCOM and finalize the import. This usually happens within 24 hours. You will receive a message here when the pages have been created.

--WeRelate agent 07:16, 29 January 2013 (EST)

Sjoukje Andries Scholte [3 February 2013]

I think your Sjoukje Andries Scholte and mine are the same person. But I'm not sure how to set up the family pages for her children born before her 1839 wedding. In particular, I see that Hendrik Rapkes Tuinstra died ongehuwd, and that her 1839 marriage legitimated one child. (FWIW, I see that her sister's 1831 marriage legitimated 4 children. I'll take care of tracking down all of them.) --Pkeegstra 06:37, 3 February 2013 (EST)

Curiously, the wedding record for Pier Bijstra and Martzen Scholte mentions wettiging 4 kinderen, but I could only find 2 before 1831. I checked both Friesland and Groningen. --Pkeegstra 08:14, 3 February 2013 (EST)

Tuin argentinie met levenden 800 personen.ged Imported Successfully [9 February 2013]

The pages from your GEDCOM have been generated successfully. You may now:

• launch the Family Tree Explorer to navigate your tree
• view your network -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out to which other WeRelate users you are related.
• view related pages not in your tree -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out which people you are now related to that you can add to your tree (takes awhile to display for large trees).
• view a searchable list of the pages in your tree -- The searchable list will be available about an hour after your tree has been imported.

For questions or problems, leave a message for Dallan or send an email to dallan@WeRelate.org.

--WeRelate agent 12:36, 9 February 2013 (EST)

Next step: Review your GEDCOM [10 February 2013]

You're not done yet!

WeRelate is different from most family tree websites. By contributing to WeRelate you are helping to create Pando for genealogy, a free, unified family tree that combines the best information from all contributors.

Now that you have uploaded Aalsma Alzum.ged, your next step is to review what your pages will look like, review any potential warnings, and combine (merge) people in your GEDCOM with matching people already on WeRelate. You need to review your GEDCOM before it can finish importing. We will keep your GEDCOM in the queue for two weeks to give you time to review it.

Note: if your gedcom contains many errors or multiple families, we’d ask that you resolve and correct the errors, delete this gedcom and re-submit it without the errors before merging it with families already on WeRelate. If the gedcom is very large, we’d suggest breaking it up into separate files (or families) and importing them one at a time, which makes the review and correction process easier.

Click here to review your GEDCOM

Once you have finished your review and marked your GEDCOM Ready to import, one of our administrators will review your GEDCOM and finalize the import. This usually happens within 24 hours. You will receive a message here when the pages have been created.

--WeRelate agent 04:03, 10 February 2013 (EST)

Aalsma Alzum.ged Imported Successfully [13 February 2013]

The pages from your GEDCOM have been generated successfully. You may now:

• launch the Family Tree Explorer to navigate your tree
• view your network -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out to which other WeRelate users you are related.
• view related pages not in your tree -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out which people you are now related to that you can add to your tree (takes awhile to display for large trees).
• view a searchable list of the pages in your tree -- The searchable list will be available about an hour after your tree has been imported.

For questions or problems, leave a message for Dallan or send an email to dallan@WeRelate.org.

--WeRelate agent 15:29, 13 February 2013 (EST)

Constantia Louisa van Goens [17 February 2013]

Geachte heer Jansen,

Toevallig stuitte ik op uw naam na een kleine zoektocht op C.L. van Goens, gezien ik hier een stamboom heb liggen van de familie Duivensz en ik benieuwd was of ik deze familie op kon sporen en hen dit aan kan bieden, gezien dit bij de verkoop van een oud huis meekwam.

Ik weet niet of u enig idee heeft wie de nazaten zijn na 1736 (gezien dat de laatste datum is die ik erop kan terugvinden), maar ik zag toevallig ook dat u de geboorte datum van C.L. op 8 augustus 1679 had staan, die staat hierop als 8 augustus 1680, dus mocht u er verder niets van weten, dan is dat in ieder geval iets.

Gezien ik midden in een verhuizing zit heb ik op het moment geen tijd om hier verder in te duiken en daarnaast ook niet de resources, maar mocht u toevallig iets weten dan hoor ik dat heel graag.

Ik heb uiteraard ook de rest van de familieleden op het schilderij van de stamboom staan, welke hier loopt van 1561 tot 1736 en wil hier mocht u daar belangstelling voor hebben best een foto van mailen, maar gezien ik die hier niet direct in kan meesturen kunnen we daar later contact over hebben.

Met vriendelijke groeten,

A. Reemers--AReemers 08:08, 17 February 2013 (EST)

Geachte heer Reemers, de gegevens over het gezin Duyvens-van Goens zijn ontleend aan Nederlands Paticiaat, deel 61. Dit betreft een genealogie van Goens. Er staat due verder niets vermeld over eventuele nakomelingen van dit echtpaar. Volgens citaten in de Nederlandse Leeuw en het Jaarboek voor het Centraal Bureau voor Genealogie beschikct het CBG over manuscripten over het geslacht Duyvens. Mogelijkerwijs vind u daarin verdere details. De discrepantie m.b.t. het geboortejaar van C.L. van Goens kan ik vanuit hier (Zwitserland) helaas niet controleren.--Klaas 11:28, 17 February 2013 (EST)

Medieval Stuff and Draft Conventions [19 February 2013]

I would appreciate it if you could review this document and the related discussion. I would appreciate your views.

Best Regards, --jrm03063 09:21, 19 February 2013 (EST)

Abraham Sonius [20 February 2013]

Klaas,

Thanks! You found the link I was looking for. Abraham Sonius was the father of both Jurjen/Jurrien born 1694 and Derck born 1711. So that line connects with both my lines. --Pkeegstra 10:39, 20 February 2013 (EST)

I'm left with two pairs of people who look suspiciously similar, but both cannot be a single person:

• Marrie Jurriens and Maria Jurjens

It looks like these are really different people. Marie 3 was married to Harm Hindriks while Marrie 1 was married to Abraham Sonius.

• Abraham Sonius and Abraham Jans Sonius

What do you think? --Pkeegstra 12:38, 20 February 2013 (EST)

Wieger Feddes Feddema en Geeske Jans Jansma (Geeske Dijkman) [21 February 2013]

Hallo Klaas:

de Wieger Feddes Feddema die met Geeske Jans Jansma getrouwd is, is onder de verkeerde ouders vermeld.

De juiste ouders zijn: Bruidegom: Wyger Feddes Feddema, oud 24 jaar, geboren te Akkerwoude

   Vader: Fedde Wygers Feddema
  Moeder: Jacoba Freerks de Beer
   Bruid: Geeske Dijkman, oud 24 jaar, geboren te Akkerwoude                           
   Vader:  niet  genoemd                                                                                                       
  Moeder: Lutske Hendriks Dijkman
   Datum: 10 mei 1849, akte nr. 12

Zie: Geboorteakte Dantumadeel, 1824 Aangiftedatum 17 mei 1824, blad nr. 38 Geeske Jansma, dochter, geboren 16 mei 1824

Vader: Jan Sydses Jansma

Moeder: Lutske Hendriks Dijkman

Opm.: Aangever erkent de vader te zijn.

Hoe kan dat worden veranderd zonder "geknoei" :-) Er zijn kinderen mee bemoeid. Hartelijk dank, --Beatrijs 23:00, 20 February 2013 (EST)

Alles gerepareerd.--Klaas 06:56, 21 February 2013 (EST)

Fantastisch Klaas, Je bent een genie!

slip of the "key" [22 February 2013]

Dag Klaas, hoe kan ik een naam veranderen, als die al geindexed is? Bv. ik schreef Javoba in plaats van Jacoba. Ik zag dat de family naam veranderd kan worden, heb dat gedaan, maar de naam Javoba kwam terug in haar huwelijk. Heb nu de naam Javoba als een alt. naam ingegeven.

Hetzelfde probleem was met de naam Fede, die iemand per ongeluk zo had genoemd, i.p.v. Fedde. Ik heb dus de naam Fede als alt. naam genoemd en Fedde als prefered name.

Is er niet een mogelijkheid om deze alt. namen totaal te verwijderen? Hoe kan men een "slip of the key" eenvoudig oplossen?

Wat is de juiste procedure? Bedankt voor je help Klaas. PS ik zie dat mijn Nederlands ook niet meer zo goed is, ben te lang weg uit Nederland:-)--Beatrijs 19:32, 21 February 2013 (EST)

Hallo Beatrijs, Wanneer de naam gewoon fout is, en niet werkelijk een variant van de naam uit een akte, dan moet de verkeerde naam niet nog ald alt name ingevoerd worden. Dus die kun je gewoon weer annulleren. Als je de naam veranderen wil, zoals die in de index staat, dan gebruik je de functie Rename, zowel bij de persoon als bij zijn/haar huwelijk(en). --Klaas 01:13, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Family talk:Rinse de Graaf and Jeltje Helder (1) [22 February 2013]

Klaas, dit zijn volgens mij niet de ouders van Gerrit Rinzes de Graaf, geb. 22 maart 1778. In zijn overlijdensakte staan als ouders Rinse Gerrits en Leentje Andries, zie ook de geboorte- en doopgegevens van Gerrit. Mvg --BenS 06:37, 22 February 2013 (EST)

I see Rinse Gerrits married to Leentje Andrys in 1763 and to Jeltje Pytters in 1785. Can we convince ourselves they are the same person, and the same person as Rinse Gelts de Graaf? --Pkeegstra 09:47, 22 February 2013 (EST)

I think they are the same person, since the Memories specifies children from both marriages.... --Pkeegstra 11:07, 22 February 2013 (EST)

I am working on this. Rinse Gelts and Rinse Gerrits is one and the same person. His death certificate gives Rinse Gerrits, his Memorie van Successie Rinse Gelts.--Klaas 11:11, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Surnames and Nobility... [27 February 2013]

You're going to find a lot of pages for nobility where the surname field is empty - which is my doing. I've been taking the view that "van <whatever>" or "of <whatever>" isn't a surname. I hate seeing a whole bunch of useless category generation at the bottom of the page.

I wrote a proposal on this, and some folks did find my position a bit extreme, particularly for cases where a patronym is declared to be a surname, even if it isn't inherited like a conventional present-day Western surname. For those folks, my last thinking was that we would mark the page with a template - {{NonDefaultSurname}} - which wouldn't really do anything for the moment. Potentially, the software could be changed to use that to decide not to generate categories. Alternatively, if practice for these names should change somehow, we can at least go to the template page to systematically find all the pages that need to be updated.

--jrm03063 17:56, 26 February 2013 (EST)

I don't really agree with this construct, but it won't hurt to add this template. To include the patronyms in this category there will be a 100'000 pages of Dutch people in WeRelate to be enriched with this template. Further in my European view and also in European genealogical publications the surnames of the nobility are used as real surnames. I don't think the American Wikipedia nameing standard is the best choice, I would prefer the German/Dutch/French original names for those nobles from continental Europe, but I can't speak for the British peerage.--Klaas 18:16, 26 February 2013 (EST)

Let me take this a bit at a time.....

* I've updated my document, and would love for you to offer your views on the talk page. I may even take the liberty of bringing some of your observations over there, so that the discussion stays somewhat together.

* I can see the burden of putting a template on every page where the surname doesn't inherit in the way that WR software anticipates.

* Explicitly requesting generation of categories seems even less apt to be appropriate (that would be, putting a designator on all the pages where surname practice IS as WeRelate currently expects).

* I agree that it has been common practice to use "of location" to refer to someone who is really of the noble house of that location. I think there are a number of practical technological reasons why that happened to begin with, but it doesn't make them useful or meaningful. It also doesn't mean that the practice should be continued, when it's essentially incorrect, and particularly for a group that is ultimately a distinct minority of people (I think this may be one of the few things where you and I appear to be in actual disagreement).

* If useful categories are going to be semi-automatically generated, we need to do something - even if it isn't practical to put a marker on EVERY person page that either does or does not follow the inherited last name practice.

* I definitely intend and prefer names ON the page, as well as the name OF the page to be in forms that are closest to what would be considered "native" for that person. However, if an editor is not a master of the appropriate languages, and the appropriate names are not yet established, we don't want to preclude that editor from making contributions in the meantime.

For patronyms that practically serve as surnames - in relatively recent European history - is it the case that the patronym is objectively recognizable? If there are introducer strings that mark a name as being a patronym, we could potentially register those and make the software look for them. Alternatively, perhaps the introducer and patronym together, could be designated on the Surname page, as being a patronym only? Then the software could use the surname field content to lookup guidance on whether to treat the surname as a patronym.

I'm not trying to make things harder, or to inflict a particular set of views. I am however, finding that without some additional nailed-down practices such as these, the results I'll get in the noble and royal genealogical spaces are not going to be satisfying or attractive. Please do feel free to vigorously disagree - but understand that I'm looking for something that will let me work effectively now - or at least soon - not just in some remote future. --jrm03063 18:56, 26 February 2013 (EST)

I feel like we have to do something - the default behavior is burdensome in the extreme for fo

I will comment the 6 statements above:

• I agree to move the (or some) statements made here on the talk page of your document.
• This is clear.
• I will precise why we can't in general add only one defined surname-category to people just with patronyms. My direct oldest ancestor is registered as Haarman which is not really a surname but comes from the hamlet or farm where he lived. So because of my familyname one could give this person the Jansen-Netherlands category. But this doesn't work because his male descendents took different surnames: van der Haar, Kieft, Jansen, Evers, Everts - to add one of these as his surname-category is not correct. This is absolutely nothing special or unique, because in 1811 every person could make a free choice of surname and in quite a few famlilies they did so.
• I do prefer and advise to use the surname categories for the nobility as done in the Europäische Stammtafeln
• I am not much (not to say never) working with surname-categories, so I can't give a comment to this.
• See my note above: Europäische Stammtafeln.

For Iceland: there are no surnames at all, just patronyms, for Northern Europe, the Netherlands and northern Germany the surnames have been introduced as soon as the civic administration started. In my opinion we should use the patronyms as surnames before that.--Klaas 09:43, 27 February 2013 (EST)

Thanks so much for taking the time to thoughtfully respond. I'll try to bring this together and give a sane response when I next have the chance.

My Very Best Regards, --jrm03063 09:55, 27 February 2013 (EST)

Van der Bent [1 March 2013]

Hallo Klaas, ik heb nog wel een rouwkaart voor J.H. van der Bent (1859-1944, mijn betovergrootvader), dat was hoe ik aan mijn eerste bewerking op deze site kwam gisteren. Bedankt nog voor het napluizen van de Burgerlijke Stand van Ommen, op die manier ben ik er vandaag achter gekomen dat Gerrit van der Bent (~1770-1831) mijn oudgrootvader is (mijn familie was zelf niet verder gekomen dan zijn zoon Dirk). Ik zal binnenkort de rouwkaart scannen, mocht dat van enige waarde zijn voor deze site.

Ik lees op uw profielpagina dat uw familie onder andere uit Dokkum afkomstig is. Hoe toevallig, ik ben zelf ook in die stad opgegroeid en de naam Mullender (rijschool) klinkt bekend in mijn oren. Bent uzelf ook nog op een manier verwant aan de familie Van der Bent? Dat zou wel toevallig zijn, aangezien mijn ouders de enige Van der Benten zijn in de omgeving van Dokkum. Maartenvdbent 20:00, 28 February 2013 (EST)

Willemke Klazes [1 March 2013]

Bedankt voor je aanvulling Andries Andries en Willemke Klazes. Groetnis, Marcel Peeringa--M.peeringa 03:55, 1 March 2013 (EST)

Something Very Odd: One Person or Two? [9 March 2013]

Klaas,

The father of the person you helped me clean up today has something very odd. It looks like the simultaneous husbands of two very different women (one and two) have the same christening record. I tried to write some of this on the family talk page. Any ideas? --Pkeegstra 17:25, 8 March 2013 (EST)

You found an interesting story: According to the huwelijksbijlagen of Klaaske and Hendrik Leegstra: their father Melle Eintes Leegstra left his family and they never ever heard anything anymore about him. This man is not identical with Melle Eintes(Jentes) de Vries. I would think his birth/christening is not proved and should be removed as well as his parents.--Klaas 03:12, 9 March 2013 (EST)

I saw that story on the internet, and that made me wonder if he was a bigamist. But I see you found children for de Vries frm the same time, so he would have had to be both a bigamist and in two places at the same time. --Pkeegstra 07:04, 9 March 2013 (EST)

upload Gedcom questions [12 March 2013]

Hi See you were doing some tinkering with my GEDCOM upload, couldn't quite figure what it was all about but presume you're cleaning up my messes and/or making implied connections. The messes are probably considerable, particularly regarding the sources. I tend to record everything and try to figure it our later. And I'm still trying to get my head around the wiki system and WR's rules. At least I finally got something on line. Feel free to tell me how to do it better.

Couple of questions: I have another generation of children to add to the several families I added, enough that I didn't want my first GEDCOM that big. It's also a bit many to add each manually. I guess I have to include at least one parent in each family, which will duplicate one I just did. Should I include BOTH parents? That fully defines the family, at the cost of doubling the duplicate parents AND the marriages. In other words, if I only include the (previously entered) father again, will the children attach automatically to the family or only to the father?

Always add complete couples (if known) - than during the gedcom upload the duplicate parents will be shown up in the family-matches tag and you can merge, so this will add the children to the correct parents and thanks to the merge won't result in duplicates. Incomplete couples will not appear in the family-match-tag.--Klaas 02:55, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

The second question is probably a rhetorical question rather than practical, but it's a major headache for me. You'll note I have a lot of immigrant relatives, most of whom lived their lives under two different names. Dooitse Wynia became Theodore Wynia, Tjietske de Jong became Susan DeJong Wynia. In Legacy I can enter alternate names but also insert "nicknames" in parenthases in the main display so at least Tjietske can become Tjietske(Susan)de Jong. I have tried to keep the birth names as primary,but it becomes a problem when children come over at an early age and spend most of their lives, school, mariage, jobs, all under a converted name. Most of the documentation will be under that name. Is there any WR policy related to this, or any mechanism for displaying alternate names in family or tree displays? I do see those listed under alt names in the person pages, but it's not conspicuous.

The rule is to keep the name by birth for the people in WeRelate, you can enter the alt name or immigrant name as a separate entry. Please do not enter nick-names in parentheses. In person-searches all names are reflected.--Klaas 02:55, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

[delete long complaint]

That said, I admire your "business model" (particular antipathy for sites that crowd-source data and then sell it back to you) and hope it can continue to grow.

Regards - Dave--JDD1931 20:05, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

I made some corrections or added some information, just for improvement. We do use a lot of information which is digital available. So we take the information from www.allefriezen.nl or www.tresoar.nl etc. which are transcriptions of the original sources. We are not happy with data from genealogy websites with unsourced familytrees like ancestry and more. I do hope you will grow fast in the use of WeRelate, I used quite some time to get used to the system and to enjoy the great advantages of this open Wiki-genealogy-Site.--Klaas 02:55, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

Teekes Rienks en Taeke Rienks Hof [25 mrt 2013]

Klaas, het betreft hier 2 verschillende personen, als je de leeftijd van Taeke aftrekt van zijn overlijdensdatum dan zie je dat hij in 1772 geboren moet zijn. Ik heb de benodigde correctie inmiddels aangebracht.--BenS 06:39, 25 March 2013 (EDT)

Next step: Review your GEDCOM [26 March 2013]

You're not done yet!

WeRelate is different from most family tree websites. By contributing to WeRelate you are helping to create Pando for genealogy, a free, unified family tree that combines the best information from all contributors.

Now that you have uploaded schaats.ged, your next step is to review what your pages will look like, review any potential warnings, and combine (merge) people in your GEDCOM with matching people already on WeRelate. You need to review your GEDCOM before it can finish importing. We will keep your GEDCOM in the queue for two weeks to give you time to review it.

Note: if your gedcom contains many errors or multiple families, we’d ask that you resolve and correct the errors, delete this gedcom and re-submit it without the errors before merging it with families already on WeRelate. If the gedcom is very large, we’d suggest breaking it up into separate files (or families) and importing them one at a time, which makes the review and correction process easier.

Click here to review your GEDCOM

Once you have finished your review and marked your GEDCOM Ready to import, one of our administrators will review your GEDCOM and finalize the import. This usually happens within 24 hours. You will receive a message here when the pages have been created.

--WeRelate agent 11:51, 26 March 2013 (EDT)

Next step: Review your GEDCOM [27 March 2013]

You're not done yet!

WeRelate is different from most family tree websites. By contributing to WeRelate you are helping to create Pando for genealogy, a free, unified family tree that combines the best information from all contributors.

Now that you have uploaded schaats.ged, your next step is to review what your pages will look like, review any potential warnings, and combine (merge) people in your GEDCOM with matching people already on WeRelate. You need to review your GEDCOM before it can finish importing. We will keep your GEDCOM in the queue for two weeks to give you time to review it.

Note: if your gedcom contains many errors or multiple families, we’d ask that you resolve and correct the errors, delete this gedcom and re-submit it without the errors before merging it with families already on WeRelate. If the gedcom is very large, we’d suggest breaking it up into separate files (or families) and importing them one at a time, which makes the review and correction process easier.

Click here to review your GEDCOM

Once you have finished your review and marked your GEDCOM Ready to import, one of our administrators will review your GEDCOM and finalize the import. This usually happens within 24 hours. You will receive a message here when the pages have been created.

--WeRelate agent 10:38, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

Thank you! [27 March 2013]

Hallo Klaas, thank you for all the updates, much appreciated!--Beatrijs 16:34, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

schaats.ged Imported Successfully [28 March 2013]

The pages from your GEDCOM have been generated successfully. You may now:

• launch the Family Tree Explorer to navigate your tree
• view your network -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out to which other WeRelate users you are related.
• view related pages not in your tree -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out which people you are now related to that you can add to your tree (takes awhile to display for large trees).
• view a searchable list of the pages in your tree -- The searchable list will be available about an hour after your tree has been imported.

For questions or problems, leave a message for Dallan or send an email to dallan@WeRelate.org.

--WeRelate agent 10:19, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

Next step: Review your GEDCOM [29 March 2013]

You're not done yet!

WeRelate is different from most family tree websites. By contributing to WeRelate you are helping to create Pando for genealogy, a free, unified family tree that combines the best information from all contributors.

Now that you have uploaded keulen.ged, your next step is to review what your pages will look like, review any potential warnings, and combine (merge) people in your GEDCOM with matching people already on WeRelate. You need to review your GEDCOM before it can finish importing. We will keep your GEDCOM in the queue for two weeks to give you time to review it.

Note: if your gedcom contains many errors or multiple families, we’d ask that you resolve and correct the errors, delete this gedcom and re-submit it without the errors before merging it with families already on WeRelate. If the gedcom is very large, we’d suggest breaking it up into separate files (or families) and importing them one at a time, which makes the review and correction process easier.

Click here to review your GEDCOM

Once you have finished your review and marked your GEDCOM Ready to import, one of our administrators will review your GEDCOM and finalize the import. This usually happens within 24 hours. You will receive a message here when the pages have been created.

--WeRelate agent 03:24, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

keulen.ged Imported Successfully [29 March 2013]

The pages from your GEDCOM have been generated successfully. You may now:

• launch the Family Tree Explorer to navigate your tree
• view your network -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out to which other WeRelate users you are related.
• view related pages not in your tree -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out which people you are now related to that you can add to your tree (takes awhile to display for large trees).
• view a searchable list of the pages in your tree -- The searchable list will be available about an hour after your tree has been imported.

For questions or problems, leave a message for Dallan or send an email to dallan@WeRelate.org.

--WeRelate agent 03:38, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

New user [10 avril 2013]

Bonjour ! Pourrais-tu lire ma question ici ? - Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 15:07, 9 April 2013 (EDT)

J'ai écrit à un autre administrateur, ici. Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 03:13, 10 April 2013 (EDT)

Fetze Katsma [3 May 2013]

Klaas, thanks for reading the birth register image for Fetze Katsma. I was working from the slow computer last night, and wasn't able to read it. Did you see that his Michigan marriage to Ietje Bisschop was civil? That's relatively unusual (and suggests possible lack of family approval), and the only way one can tell on the Michigan Marriages 1868-1925 source is by getting the name of the officiant from the image. One other thing: Ietje Bisschop had a prior marriage to a Henry Vander Wal, but I need another breadcrumb or two before I can be sure I've identified him correctly. --Pkeegstra 06:40, 1 May 2013 (EDT)

I'll have a look.--Klaas 06:30, 1 May 2013 (EDT)

I can see why the family may not have been pleased. If this page is correct, Ida was divorced from Heine/Henry. --Pkeegstra 17:51, 1 May 2013 (EDT)

P.S. I have created a proper source page for the Michigan Death Certificates 1921-1952.

Next step: Review your GEDCOM [3 May 2013]

You're not done yet!

WeRelate is different from most family tree websites. By contributing to WeRelate you are helping to create Pando for genealogy, a free, unified family tree that combines the best information from all contributors.

Now that you have uploaded rmschregardus.ged, your next step is to review what your pages will look like, review any potential warnings, and combine (merge) people in your GEDCOM with matching people already on WeRelate. You need to review your GEDCOM before it can finish importing. We will keep your GEDCOM in the queue for two weeks to give you time to review it.

Note: if your gedcom contains many errors or multiple families, we’d ask that you resolve and correct the errors, delete this gedcom and re-submit it without the errors before merging it with families already on WeRelate. If the gedcom is very large, we’d suggest breaking it up into separate files (or families) and importing them one at a time, which makes the review and correction process easier.

Click here to review your GEDCOM

Once you have finished your review and marked your GEDCOM Ready to import, one of our administrators will review your GEDCOM and finalize the import. This usually happens within 24 hours. You will receive a message here when the pages have been created.

--WeRelate agent 05:01, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

rmschregardus.ged Imported Successfully [3 May 2013]

The pages from your GEDCOM have been generated successfully. You may now:

• launch the Family Tree Explorer to navigate your tree
• view your network -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out to which other WeRelate users you are related.
• view related pages not in your tree -- If you matched families in your GEDCOM to existing families, find out which people you are now related to that you can add to your tree (takes awhile to display for large trees).
• view a searchable list of the pages in your tree -- The searchable list will be available about an hour after your tree has been imported.

For questions or problems, leave a message for Dallan or send an email to dallan@WeRelate.org.

--WeRelate agent 05:54, 3 May 2013 (EDT)