User talk:Pkeegstra

Topics


Contacting Me [10 February 2014]

If you ask a question here on my talk page, I will reply here (so please Watch this page). If I start a new thread on your talk page, I will Watch that page and reply there or indicate some other appropriate talk page for followup.

Because of past experience with attempted identity theft, I prefer that the identifier by which I have chosen to be known on WeRelate be used and that my personal name not be allowed to leak out to the public internet. Collaborating WeRelate investigators are welcome to request my personal name and the names of my living family members who link to the persons with pages on WeRelate via private email.


Stupid Questions [15 December 2011]

I know about the support page. This is where I record stupid questions I'm too shy to post there.

  • Does this site have a relationship calculator? I'm looking for a form which takes person A and person B, and tells you whether they are related, and if so how to get from A to B. The support page suggests such functionality is more appropriate on one's desktop genealogy program, but how can I construct a GEDCOM containing persons A and B to load into my desktop program if I don't know how to get from A to B?
  • Is it permitted to name living people in contexts other than a person page per se? For example, if I want to acknowledge curators of other websites which contain subsets of my family, and they identify themselves on their pages, I presume I can name them, right?--Pkeegstra 09:51, 11 November 2011 (EST)

Hi, these are good questions. WeRelate does not have a relationship calculator (I wish we did :) If you did know how to get from A to B, you can put each person into a Tree and then Export a GEDCOM of that tree. Otherwise, there is no automatic way to calculate relationships on WR.

Yes, you can name the sources of your information. WR just doesn't want pages to be created for living people due to privacy concerns. You would want to avoid adding the person's email address or other personal information in your source citation.

Lastly, the Support page really is a good place for questions like this. We also have a Watercooler page, but that is a bit more advanced, and sometimes not as friendly for new users as the Support page is. --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:26, 11 November 2011 (EST)


Many thanks, Jennifer! --Pkeegstra 10:37, 11 November 2011 (EST)


A new stupid question.

  • What, if any, copyright status can be specified for images of United States state vital records produced since 1923?

--Pkeegstra 15:57, 11 November 2011 (EST)


Here are two pages with information about Text and Image copyrights:

If you obtained the images from Ancestry or FamilySearch, you can choose the "Ancestry.com limited use license" or "FamilySearch limited use license" when uploading the image. If you still need assistance with this, I'd suggest the Support page, because there are other admins watching that page who are more knowledgeable about copyright issues than I am. --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:06, 11 November 2011 (EST)


I was thinking specifically of scans I make of documents I purchased from county clerks in Michigan, such as the birth certificates I have for Melvin and Berend Huisman, which were typed in 1995 based on records in their custody. So I guess this one is not so stupid, and worth asking on the support page. --Pkeegstra 16:18, 11 November 2011 (EST)


A new stupid question.

Despite my deficiencies in the Dutch language, I found search sites for church records prior to 1811 in the provinces of Groningen and Friesland. Is there a comparable search site for Gelderland? I found the Gelderland Archive, but I can't see anything obvious. --Pkeegstra 16:33, 14 December 2011 (EST)

Gelders Archief does have records for some municipalites before 1811. From their homepage, type a name into the search box and click on the round button next to "personen". The next screen will provide additional filtering options. For scanned documents, you could check out http://vpnd.nl/ and http://www.genealogiedomein.nl/. Two other sites to look at for website resource ideas are http://geneaknowhow.net/digi/resources.html and http://www.archievenwo2.nl/page/thesaurus-gemeenten. --Jennifer (JBS66) 11:20, 15 December 2011 (EST)

New Netherland Book Recommendation and Calendar Question [20 December 2011]

Not exactly a stupid question, but not the sort of thing one finds on the support page.

Does anyone know of a good book with Reformed Church records from New Netherland analogous to the Connecticut Barbour collection? The period of Dutch administration is essential, but continuity into the period of British administration would be a big plus.

This from Kingston, NY sounds like the sort of thing I'm looking for. Is this as useful as it sounds? I found a bunch more likely candidates when I used the keywords "reformed churches" in my search over sources. Which other ones are also particularly useful? Am I interpreting correctly that some of these, like this one, are available on Ancestry? Are there some not yet in the sources list I should consider?

BTW, according to Wikipedia in 17th century Netherlands (before 1700) Julian versus Gregorian calendar varied from province to province. Sounds pretty chaotic, but which did New Netherland use? I don't even want to think about the calendric ambiguities induced by the switch from the Dutch calendar to the English calendar.

--Pkeegstra 11:43, 13 December 2011 (EST)


Trijntje van der Woude [9 January 2012]

I am not related to Trijntje she is a part from the Bouma's tree--Tp 15:33, 9 January 2012 (EST)

Thanks! Yes, that's why I first noticed her. I am a Bouma, and my Bouma great-great-grandfather was married to a van der Woude. So I looked, but I never found a link to her. But I put up a page for her anyways, because of her story. --Pkeegstra 16:03, 9 January 2012 (EST)


Lucy Hannah Unknown [12 January 2012]

Hi, just doing clean up. I found a page requesting help cleaning up old GEDCOM uploads in which people with ??? for a first name, surname and both are listed [1] and have been working my way through the list.

On another subject, if any of your MI folks found their way out to Lynden, WA I might have some resources. --Susan Irish 19:48, 11 January 2012 (EST)

I have a bunch of folks in Lynden, WA. (That's like Grand Rapids of the West Coast!) We'll need to compare notes. Probably offline, since most of the ones I'm thinking of are living. --Pkeegstra 19:54, 11 January 2012 (EST)

I see Antje (Anna) Tjoelker in the system. I have a second cousin who married a Tjoelker, and I have a family in my church whose grandmother was a Tjoelker. So if we can collaboratively fill out that line as the nonlivingness policy permits, that would be great. (I suspect all the Tjoelkers in Lynden are descended from just one family.) I found her parents in GENLIAS. I wonder if they were the first Lynden Tjoelkers? --Pkeegstra 13:15, 12 January 2012 (EST)

Heavens! These people are related to me! Tije Tjoelker's parents are Meindert Tjoelker and Antje Vaatstra, and Antje Vaatstra's grandmother was a Keegstra. See Hessel Gerrits & Antje Rinses Part One. --Pkeegstra 15:05, 12 January 2012 (EST)


Edna Tjoelker [15 January 2012]

Hi, I have added Martha and Bessie to the family. Edna married Jacob Vos 18 Feb 1943 and it looks like she is still living. A possible birth date for her is 6 Mar 1921. --Susan Irish 16:13, 15 January 2012 (EST)

I just found out this morning from conversations at church that Edna was the one who married the Vos. No info either way on whether she was still living, though. Thanks! --Pkeegstra 16:22, 15 January 2012 (EST)


Roorda [19 January 2012]

Hi, I have no proof on Nicholas Roorda's family BUT the 1930 census shows a son, Nicholas, of Mient & Hiltje that looks promising.

By the way Edna Vos is still listed in local phone directory.--Susan Irish 17:32, 17 January 2012 (EST)

What identifying info do we have for the Nicholas Roorda who married Martha? Anything? --Pkeegstra 17:52, 17 January 2012 (EST)

For the record, the consensus was to go with Nicholas Roorda (1913-2000) because his date of birth fits a marriage in 1936 better and the death places match. --Pkeegstra 17:09, 19 January 2012 (EST)


Foster Lincoln [19 January 2012]

Hi, There is a Foster Lincoln who married Martha Rogers, both of Wiscasset, 3 Mar 1843 who might be the brother of Mary (Lincoln) Crosby. --Susan Irish 16:45, 19 January 2012 (EST)

All the entries for that couple at Rootsweb have them both born in Phippsburg. Both places are in Lincoln County, so I'm not sure if that's a distinction which makes a difference. Maybe because that's where all their children were born.

(I've found a couple of the Lincoln children at Rootsweb. But noone at Rootsweb has all 8 Lincoln children linked together.) --Pkeegstra 17:00, 19 January 2012 (EST)

1850 census has:

Foster Lincoln          M       30y     (Maine)
Martha Lincoln          F       35y     (Maine)
Georgianna Lincoln      F        6y     (Maine)
Isaac T Lincoln         M        4y     (Maine)
Clara C Lincoln         F        2y     (Maine)
Oragina Lincoln         F        2y     (Maine)

(In Phippsburg, Lincoln County, Maine)


1870 census has:

James B Drake           M       32y     (Maine)
Georgianna Drake        F       25y     (Maine)
Ora G Lincoln           F       22y     (Maine)
Martha Lincoln          F       55y     (Maine)
Osaac F Lincoln         M       24y     (Maine)

(In Bath, Sagadahoc County, Maine)

In the 1850 census that was the only Foster Lincoln in the US in the range 1819-1821, so I'm getting more convinced. And it looks like he's gone by 1870. --Pkeegstra 17:41, 19 January 2012 (EST)


Tfb6972 GEDCOM [13 February 2012]

The number of pages in this upload appears to be in the thousands. It has been around for almost five years so many pages have been merged. A lot of the pages don't make any sense as you have pointed out.just looking briefly I found a worse example on the 2nd page I looked at http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Roelof_De_Valchener_%281%29 no dates no documentation no relatives and the names don't match. My line descends from Roeloff Martense Schenck http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Roelof_Schenck_%281%29 I inherited my information from a great aunt who died in 1959. Neither she nor I, at the time, understood the need for proper documentation, and apparently most others following this line don't either. I suspect much can be found in HISTORY OF MONMOUTH COUNTY, NEW JERSEY by Franklin Ellis. I don't have a copy but I think I have seen a microfilm of it at our local FHC. Sources badly needed for these folks.--Scot 16:14, 13 February 2012 (EST)

Yeah, I had a look and I also found a lot of stuff with no compelling need to retain. Even some living folks. Will a block delete mess up pages which have already been merged or otherwise fixed up? JBS66 was just valiantly trying to apply the Van Voorhees book to the first family I identified for her. I've promised a user page which enumerates all the churches and links to their sources; it looks like records from almost all the churches have been transcribed in one form or another. Of course, many seem only to be imaged and not transcribed, so an expertise in seventeenth century Dutch script is essential. --Pkeegstra 16:23, 13 February 2012 (EST)
BTW, my brother-in-law is a Morris from the Couwenhovens, so you and he may be related. --Pkeegstra 16:29, 13 February 2012 (EST)
The idea of deleting "junk" gedcoms from WR has been brought up a few times. Each time, the decision is to keep the pages and essentially work with what we have. The only larger scale deletion that is planned for the future are deleting empty pages for living people. --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:09, 13 February 2012 (EST)
OK. When I find living people, should I mark them for speedy delete then? --Pkeegstra 17:12, 13 February 2012 (EST)
You can mark them for SD. If you do, please add the date that you added the template to the page in your SD text so that it appears on the page. This makes it easier for the admin deleting the page to make sure enough warning time has been given. Also, if a living person was married, the family page also needs to be marked. However, if the living pages are empty, they should be deleted with the above mentioned project, but I'm not sure when that is slated to happen. --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:18, 13 February 2012 (EST)

Pilon in Whatcom County [27 February 2012]

Hi, I am finding a Ralph Pilon, son of Jacob & Hilje, born in Dakota, who married Anna Assink. Also found a daughter, Alice Pilon, b. Dec 1878, m. Boerhave. A John P. Pilon m. Minnie Boerhave -- not sure if he was a son as no details given with this record. The Gerrit b. East Indies, appears to have married under the name of Ralph G. J. T. Pilon giving parents names as Tonke(?) Pilon and Jennie Meyers. --Susan Irish 17:08, 27 February 2012 (EST)

One of us will need to add Ralph born in Dakota. According to the 1930 census it was South Dakota ABT 1887.

Alice Pilon must be Aaltje. The year is wrong but the month matches, and it's a common Americanization.

I saw John P Pilon in the census; he is almost certainly Jan Pieter.

Here are Tonke Pilon and Jennie Meyers. The only child we have for them was born in Netherlands in 1881. But are you sure that Gerrit is Ralph and not Jan Berend Roelf Jacobus Tonke?

--Pkeegstra 17:24, 27 February 2012 (EST)

I added Ralph (and changed his name to Roelof based on the 1900 census). --Pkeegstra 17:51, 27 February 2012 (EST)


Hendricks in Michigan [4 March 2012]

Hi, I have identified the first wife of Herman/Harmon Hendricks as Hattie Dubin or something similar. The marriage is said to have taken place in Michigan. Can you find it? --Susan Irish 18:25, 29 February 2012 (EST)

I tried and wasn't having much luck. Let me see if they are both listed in one of the censuses which records marriage date. --Pkeegstra 19:43, 29 February 2012 (EST)
I got it to work by using just the marriage date from the 1900 census and her name, ignoring his name. What bugs me is not being able to do better than "Germany" for the birthplaces. I tried my new Ancestry subscription, but I'm afraid I don't have the hang of it yet, because I didn't find anything useful. The whole Hendricks family is there now. BTW, do we have a category "German Immigrants to the United States" for folks who went straight from Germany to the US, not living for 30 years in the Netherlands in between like my triple-great-grandfather. BTW2, does John Hendricks die before 1930? I can't find him in the census. --Pkeegstra 20:48, 29 February 2012 (EST)
Check out the marriage record for Benjamin Hendricks and Ann Buizer. A location in Germany is given for his parents but it is not clear. --Susan Irish 22:39, 29 February 2012 (EST)
I created a category for Category:German immigrants to the United States. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:24, 1 March 2012 (EST)
Susan, thanks for the place pointer. The place is Bentheim, which is right across the border from Netherlands so I've seen other immigrants from there. BTW, there are two pages for Bentheim: One and Two. I think the one is modern, and the other as per the "1900 rule" but I'm not sure which is which. And Jennifer, thanks for the category. I wonder how long it will take for someone to ask for Austria? --Pkeegstra 09:44, 1 March 2012 (EST)
Speaking of categories, can the category "Dutch conscripts in Napolean's army" be fit into the heierarchy of military categories that was being discussed recently? I saw one of these somewhere in WeRelate, and my friend from church said her double-great grandfather had a brother like that, so we have at least two entries. --Pkeegstra 09:44, 1 March 2012 (EST)
And Susan, FYI there are several English lines in Netherlands, traditionally attributed to sailors. I previously knew of Smith and Quick (which I think is also localized as Kuik). There were Quicks at New Amsterdam, and my girlfriend Kathy is descended from one of those lines. So Quint can go on that list now, too. --Pkeegstra 07:24, 1 March 2012 (EST)
Oh, and Quint can also be spelled Kwint. --Pkeegstra 09:44, 1 March 2012 (EST)

"I have been defeated in my attempt to track down a Netherlands birth record for Adrian Jongeneel. The obvious record was from a child who had died a few months later." Expert assistance will be greatly appreciated. --Pkeegstra 17:34, 4 March 2012 (EST)

I added the birth information for Person:Adrianus Jongeneel (2) as well as his parents. --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:05, 4 March 2012 (EST)
Thank you so much! I assume you went to the images, since GENLIAS has no Adrianus Pieter Jongeneel in 1886 (just Anne Adrianus). How did you know which family and which gemeente to look at? --Pkeegstra 18:12, 4 March 2012 (EST)
I found the bevolkingsregister for Adrianus Pieter and his parents. That told me the birth location for Adrianus was Capelle aan den IJssel. Though the birth date was off, I found the birth record on FS here. It would have been tough without the bevolkingsregister since they moved around a bit! --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:17, 4 March 2012 (EST)

Oosterbaan in Michigan [6 March 2012]

Hi, I find I have a death notice for a Benjamin Oosterbaan who came out to WA to work in the woods and was killed in 1903, age 23, father = John; no relatives in WA but buried Monumenta. Do you want to see if you can find his family? --Susan Irish 22:01, 5 March 2012 (EST)


I've heard of the family. Let's give it a try. I see an 1873 and an 1888, but both are in the 1910 census, and both survive well beyond that. I don't see any 1880; can you tell whether he came "right off the boat" from Netherlands? --Pkeegstra 10:24, 6 March 2012 (EST)


I checked Oosterbaans, and I checked Benjamins in Netherlands 1879-1881. No Oosterbaans whose given names started with 'B' or looked to be likely candidates to Americanize to Benjamin, and no Benjamins with family names starting with 'O'. --Pkeegstra 13:43, 6 March 2012 (EST)



I see a Jennie Burgraff in 1900 born Jul 1893 and living in Sioux County, Iowa, parents Arie and Anna. Does she fit for the spouse of Ben Nymeyer? She may have stayed in Iowa; I see a bunch of Iowa births and marriages with parents Jennie Burgraff and either John Mcmahan or John Van Ginkel.

There's another lady, born in 1907, died in Lynden in 2000, married name is Jennie Burgraff. Her husband Albert has different parents John and Mary, but maybe same extended family. --Pkeegstra 07:14, 6 March 2012 (EST) --Pkeegstra 10:24, 6 March 2012 (EST)

OK, it looks like Jennie Burgraff Jul 1893 is available. Jennie Burgraff Mcmahan was born in 1886 and Jennie/Jane Burgraff Van Ginkel was born in 1849. I see no SSDI for Jennie Nymeyer, so she probably died before 1965. Since she was born before 1900, I can make a page for her without knowing the death date. --Pkeegstra 10:59, 6 March 2012 (EST)

I was all set to add her, when I saw references to a Jennie Burgraff Beckman wife of Alfred Beckman born 1892, living in Lyon County, Iowa in 1920 and 1930. The birth record I found for the daughter of Arie and Anna was for 1892 in Lyon County, Iowa. Yup, there's the marriage record for the daughter of Arie and Anna marrying Alfred Beckman. --Pkeegstra 11:10, 6 March 2012 (EST)

Oops, I missed that you already posted the marriage license, so we have parents' names. Looks like I see her in the 1910 census in Whatcom County as Janie, born 1899 in Minnesota, which matches the license. I think we have this one resolved. --Pkeegstra 11:15, 6 March 2012 (EST)


Whatcom Map [9 March 2012]

Hi, I have uploaded a map [2] showing that I have mixed up Forest City and Forest Grove. I have added the image to the Whatcom County place page. --Susan Irish 19:31, 7 March 2012 (EST)

Excellent! It should be easy for me to correlate those map positions with the map positions on Google Maps and get lat and lon from them. --Pkeegstra 19:50, 7 March 2012 (EST)

You should remove "Lynden" from the description of Ten Mile Cemetery. It is several miles closer to Bellingham from Lynden in Ten Mile township and is still in use. --Susan Irish 22:46, 8 March 2012 (EST)

I was just going by the address in FindAGrave. I'll locate it in the county then. --Pkeegstra 06:50, 9 March 2012 (EST)

Are counties in Washington State partitioned into townships like they are in Michigan? (1885 map of Kent County, MI) If so, then townships would be the preferred place to locate cemeteries not located in incorporated cities or villages. Do you by any chance have a map of Whatcom County showing townships? --Pkeegstra 07:55, 9 March 2012 (EST)

I found this. So Washington and Oregon do land survey a lot like like Michigan. And I found this map of the the Land Survey townships in Washington. I still need a mapping between land survey townships like T 10 N, R 12 W and named townships.--Pkeegstra 10:35, 9 March 2012 (EST)

I think I found what I was looking for here. Not all townships had names, some had just their land survey names. But the ones that did have names, I should be able to extract from this. Should we make places for all the townships, even the ones that use just the land survey names? --Pkeegstra 11:46, 9 March 2012 (EST)

As you discovered Whatcom County is partitioned into townships BUT the word "township" almost never appears in the early records I have extracted except for "Ten Mile Township." The Delta area is almost always called "Delta precinct" but is a township too.--Susan Irish 12:38, 9 March 2012 (EST)

Licking is indeed on the Northern Pacific rail line as per this 1895 map. --Pkeegstra 10:57, 9 March 2012 (EST)

It appears that the name "Licking" was changed to "Hopewell" before the 1909 map was made. --Susan Irish 12:38, 9 March 2012 (EST)
I wrote up a plan for defining and using place pages for named townships of Whatcom County where they exist on the Whatcom County place page. Does what I suggest look reasonable? --Pkeegstra 13:28, 9 March 2012 (EST)
I did five townships for now. My next ones will be Nooksack, Lawrence, and Rome. --Pkeegstra 16:31, 9 March 2012 (EST)

Roelf Pronk [20 March 2012]

Look what I found:

zou dit dezelfde kunnen zijn??--henk 07:18, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M93Q-F7N

United States Census, 1900 for Ralph Prunk

name:	Ralph Prunk
titles & terms:	
residence:	Larkin & Willmont Townships, Nobles, Minnesota
birth date:	Sep 1829
birthplace:	Holland
relationship to head of household:	Father
spouse:	
spouse's titles & terms:	
spouse's birthplace:	
father:	
father's titles & terms:	
father's birthplace:	Holland
mother:	
mother's titles & terms:	
mother's birthplace:	Holland
race or color (expanded):	White
head-of-household name:	Claus Prunk
gender:	Male
marital status:	Widowed
years married:	
estimated marriage year:	
mother how many children:	
number living children:	
immigration year:	1896
enumeration district:	0218
page:	3
sheet letter:	A
family number:	39
reference number:	34
film number:	1240778
image number:	00207
 	Household	Gender	Age
child	Claus Prunk	M	
Fanney Prunk	F	
Ralph Prunk	M	
Ellie Prunk	F	
Louie Prunk	M	
 	 Ralph Prunk	M	
John Prunk	M


Thanks! Any idea whether Frouwina settled first in Minnesota before moving to Grand Rapids, Michigan? Any sign of a first marriage for her? Maybe that has something to do with her moving. BTW, John in the census [above] was born 1881, and is not this Jan Jacob. --Pkeegstra 09:30, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

her first marriage was to Geert van der Scheer (17 DEC 1889 Grand Rapids)--henk 09:38, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

BTW I will upload a gedcom with more details in about 1 hour ( I Hope)--henk 09:42, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

Geesien Jans Boer appeared to have gotten crosslinked with Geesien Eisses Boer, and now seems to be lost. Could you please re-upload her. BTW, I have a Pekelder married into my mother's Bouma family, so I will help you work on Jan Geerts Pekelder to see if he connects. --Pkeegstra 14:00, 19 March 2012 (EDT)
I put in a placeholder page for Geessien Jans Boer. Could you please check whether you had any additional information for her? --Pkeegstra 14:23, 19 March 2012 (EDT)


I've added more information on Geessien Jans Boer and I already added a page for Jan Pekelder


SSDI has a Ralph Pronk born 4 Nov 1895 died Dec 1978 in Iowa, card issued in Texas. Do you have info to confirm that that is this Ralph Pronk? --Pkeegstra 06:19, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

The Pekelder who married a Bouma is John Henry Pekelder Jr. His wife is living. I don't yet have his mother's maiden name; it looks like they just missed the cutoff date for the FamilySearch Michigan marriages archive. --Pkeegstra 06:52, 20 March 2012 (EDT)


Stremler in Whatcom County [27 March 2012]

Hi, I find a Fred Stremler b. 9 Mar 1876 Netherlands; don't know if he was brother to Lewis.--Susan Irish 22:20, 23 March 2012 (EDT)

OK, sounds like that would be Fedde, born 9 Mar 1876. Looks like there are 8 of them.

My other project for today is to see whether Alice Jager and Henrietta Jager are connected. --Pkeegstra 08:44, 24 March 2012 (EDT)

I don't think Alice and Henrietta Jager are related, but if you want I can find it out for you; I'm researching the Bruins Family and I also have some Jagers in my tree most of them from Winschoten--henk 08:26, 27 March 2012 (EDT)

I've come to a similar conclusion. But if you do find a connection, I'd appreciate hearing about it. I also intend to get back to the ancestry of Bessie Bruins, but if you get there first, that would also be appreciated. --Pkeegstra 09:39, 27 March 2012 (EDT)

FYI [26 March 2012]

Place:Drenthe, Ottawa, Michigan, United States

http://www.migenweb.net/ottawa/churches/christianref/drenthe.html#Vriesland_Christian_Reformed_Church_History Mvg, --Lidewij 17:25, 26 March 2012 (EDT)

Thanks! --Pkeegstra 17:28, 26 March 2012 (EDT)


Pauline Karsten [30 March 2012]

I think Pauline Karsten Bos has been working on genealogy too:

Author: Pauline Karsten Bos Title: Publication by Pauline Karsten Bos re Brief History of Marten Jans Schans family Publication: Published mid 1970s Repository: Media: Manuscript Note: photocopied mimeographed papers Note: Family records say March 21. The following record says DOB was March 21, 1889, not March 11, 1889 as Pauline Karsten Bos wrote -- Broderbund Family Archive #110, Vol. 1, Ed. 7, Social Security Death Index: U.S., Date of Import: Dec 4, 1999, Internal Ref. #1.111.7.125946.116. Place of birth is from family records.

--henk 09:41, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Thanks! I've corresponded with Bergsma, he's my double cousin, but I'm not sure who would be the family keeper of Pauline Karsten Bos's documents. (I also wonder which Bos she married, since my Dad's great-aunt married a Bos. --Pkeegstra 09:57, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Noel Bergsma is a cousin???? hmmm interesting, I believe my Bergsma cousins are as well related to him and Bos My great uncle Taeke Beiboer married a Jenny Bos in Grand Rapids...... The world is getting smaller by the minute--henk 10:02, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

John Sidney Bos

The son of Alice Keegstra Bos and Ralph Bos was named John R. Bos. But I need to check whether he had a son John Sidney. John Sidney might be living. --Pkeegstra 17:40, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Alice Keegstra Bos (my Dad's great-aunt) is the aunt of John Sidney Bos. --Pkeegstra 10:39, 30 March 2012 (EDT)
OK, now we need a Cornelis or Kornelis Bos born Feb 1841 (as per 1900 census). He may have had a first wife before marrying Maria Van Doorne in 1873. As per 1900 census, his immigration year was 1870. --Pkeegstra 09:55, 30 March 2012 (EDT)
I found his death certificate. Date of birth is probably 1840, not 1841. Father was Jan Bos. Mother's name is hard to read. --Pkeegstra 10:06, 30 March 2012 (EDT)
AlleGroningers has a Kornelis Bos born 3 FEB 1840 in Slochteren. --Pkeegstra 10:44, , 30 March 2012 (EDT)

In 1870 ( 6 april) a Cornelius Bos Arrived from Holland on the ship "the Queen" together with het Hugo Bos, However his age is given as 21!--henk 13:32, 30 March 2012 (EDT)

Just late enough to miss the census. Someone misread a '3' as a '2', an easy enough mistake. --Pkeegstra 13:41, 30 March 2012 (EDT)

Cornelius Bos [30 March 2012]

I think this may be the Cornelius Bos you're looking for, but I'm not convinced (yet), however I don't think he was married before Maria van Doorne, There was a Cornelius Bos in Grand Haven married to Elizabeth Verwey (1867)but they had children after he married Maria and your Cornelius was not even migrated then Though I find it strange that he didn't name his children after his father or mother--henk 14:32, 30 March 2012 (EDT

well the death certificate tells it all: his mother's name Knelske Reints Vinkes, so his father is Jan Sikkes Bos

http://www.allegroningers.nl/index.php?task=persoon_detail&option=com_genealogie&Itemid=54&akte_id=2294589 --henk 15:31, 30 March 2012 (EDT)


Mol- Hilhorst [21 April 2012]

Thank you for noting that Luider Mol was the same person as Suijden Mol. I had not realized that. Am I correct in assuming that Henders Koorts from the marriage record of Evert Mol and Aaltjen Hilhorst is the same person as Henders Kooit from the marriage record of Harmen Mol and Gerritjen Hilhorst? --Pkeegstra 14:49, 21 April 2012 (EDT)


you are correct; 2 brothers married 2 sisters --henk 15:26, 21 April 2012 (EDT)


person talk pages versus user talk pages [12 May 2012]

I watch user pages of certain prominent users because there are sometimes messages of interest to me involving general issues or problems involving WeRelate. Lately you have had several "noisy" discussions on several user talk pages that seem to belong more on the talk pages of specific Person: pages than on a user page. If you could attempt to post your conversations on the Person pages rather than the User pages, it would help avoid a lot of noise on the user pages that most watchers of those user pages might not be interested in, plus put it on the talk page of a Person: where future readers are more likely to look for information on those people and therefore find it, rather than some user's archived messages. A single message on the user page saying you posted a question on the Person page would not be obnoxious if you then continued the discussion there? Thank you. --Jrich 00:07, 13 May 2012 (EDT)

Would it not have been polite to watch my talk page after having left comments on it, especially after having lectured me on talk page etiquette? --Pkeegstra 14:39, 10 June 2012 (EDT)

Schols family [21 May 2012]

Hi, I have found a Schols family that was not part of the Lynden community. It looks like 4 brothers and possibly a sister came to USA and Canada at various times.
Hendrik b. 7 Aug 1903 Abbenbroek
Isaak b. 15 Jan 1896 Zuidland
Jacobus b. abt. 1906 Abbenbroek
Arie Hendrik b. abt. 1894
Mynstje(?) (female) b. abt. 1898
There is an outside chance the father was named Jacobus. If this is a family you are interested in researching and can find the parents, I will add to the children's pages. --Susan Irish 02:24, 21 May 2012 (EDT)

I have relatives who are Schols, so I am very interested. I also have a fourth cousin in Canada who is related to me via my Schols line. --Pkeegstra 06:35, 21 May 2012 (EDT)
Hendrik and Jacobus need death dates before they can be entered. I will create the page for their parents Jacobus Schols and Jannetje van Buuren.
Children born after 1902 (all in Abbenbroek) are:
  • Hendrik, 1903
  • GeertruidaJohanna, 1905
  • Jacobus, 1906
  • Pieter Leendert, 1907

--Pkeegstra 07:21, 21 May 2012 (EDT)


Recent questionable edits [2 June 2012]

Paul, I'm getting a lot of emails for changes on Dutch pages I'm watching, and they mostly seem to be instances where you've removed information for a place name following the pipe -- information that many of us are at pains to include, to make the page more readable to users. Like reducing "Kingston, Ulster, New York, United States|Kingston, Ulster County, New York" to just "Kingston, Ulster, New York, United States". This serves no purpose. It's not a "correction". Please don't do it. --MikeTalk 11:20, 2 June 2012 (EDT)

OK, I believe there are camps at WeRelate on both sides of that, but as long as the pipe does not promote ambiguation, I can do that. Can we agree that there is such a thing as a bad pipe, which can always be deleted, as well as good pipes and neutral pipes?
BTW, I would hope that the count of changes from all-upcase to mixed-case surnames outnumbered the count of pipes I removed, since that was the actual motivating force for my digging into the New Amsterdam pages this time.... (Can we also agree that it is almost always a good thing to change an all upper-case surname to mixed case? The principal ambiguous case I'm aware of is Americanized Dutch names which may or may not be camelcased, e.g. VanderWoude. Are there cases like that from other nationalities I may not be aware of?)
Oh, and did you see the question I asked at Person talk:Roelof Chierstide (1)? If you do happen to have access to pertinent sources, another question I ran into was whether Willem Krom married Wyntje Roosa or Anna Roosa? And in either case what to do with the decade-posthumous son? --Pkeegstra 11:46, 2 June 2012 (EDT)
P.S. Would it not be polite to watch my talk page if you have left comments on it? Especially since you made an explicit choice to refer to me by a name other than the one by which I have chosen to make myself know here on WeRelate, and the name you have selected is one which is both wrong and offensive. --Pkeegstra 14:39, 10 June 2012 (EDT)


--Pkeegstra 14:24, 2 June 2012 (EDT)


Pkeegstra, I feel the contributions that you made today to the pages for early Netherlands immigrants were of great value. On a whole, these positive contributions far outweighed a few changes to piped places on pages that, for the most part, have not been touched since they were dumped here via GEDCOM years ago. --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:46, 2 June 2012 (EDT)

Thanks, Jennifer! Although the ones that have never been touched seem a lot easier to deal with than the ones that have already been through multiple merges.... --Pkeegstra 14:24, 2 June 2012 (EDT)

Conversation re: place page titles [10 June 2012]

Hi Pkeegstra, when you have a moment could you take a look at this conversation on my talk page? I would appreciate your input considering your work on Michigan place pages :) Thanks! --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:15, 10 June 2012 (EDT)


John Huizinga [24 June 2012]

Hi,

I'm trying to locate John Huizinga[[3]] in or around Grand Rapids. He's a brother of my partners Grandmother and we think that he migrated around 1950 together with the Slendebroek family. Do you have any idea how I can trace him?--henk 16:09, 20 June 2012 (EDT)--

Death certificates are public documents in Michigan. Either of us could order that, but it would probably be easier for me because I have a USD checking account. That should give you his last residence address and marital status. Beyond that, I am afraid that John Huizinga is a fairly common name in Grand Rapids. With that in mind, the GR Public Library may have old phone books. --Pkeegstra 17:04, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

Actually, there are two possibilities; one can either order death certificates from the county or, for a slightly higher fee, from the state.

  • If you are certain of the year, but less certain of the county, order from the state, and that covers all the counties of Michigan.
  • If you are certain of the county, but less certain of the year, then order from the county, since they give you at least a plus or minus five years search window.
  • If you are certain of both the year and the county, order from the county since it's cheaper.

--Pkeegstra 19:37, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

at least I found him in the death index: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V335-8YH

That's probably the first case then, since you know the day he died, but he may not have died in the indicated county. (I've had several cases like that, where the hospital or hospice was a different county than the county of residence.)

(And I guess I'm not a very good genealogist, because I don't know anything about how to track down Michigan wills or executors of estates, but I could ask my sister the Michigan lawyer. The executor of the estate may still be alive and contactable.)

--Pkeegstra 06:18, 21 June 2012 (EDT)


John's obituary is available through http://data.wmgs.org for a small fee. I'd be happy to order that if you'd like. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:30, 21 June 2012 (EDT)

I can do that. I'll probably find other people I can include in the same order. --Pkeegstra 06:49, 21 June 2012 (EDT)


You're to kind :-) It appears that his brother Gerrit Huizinga also died in Grand Rapids https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JLS9-16B. Wow my American family increases by the minute, I found a John Huizinga who could be the one who has at least 10 children and the Slendebroek/Huizinga family 12 children--henk 07:41, 21 June 2012 (EDT)

OK, I just mailed the order forms for the obituaries and the death certificates of Jan and of Gerrit. --Pkeegstra 12:39, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

Calvin College Presidents and Dorm Namesakes [23 June 2012]

As if it weren't obvious where my interests lie.

--Pkeegstra 08:57, 23 June 2012 (EDT)


E-mail [27 July 2012]

Hi Pkeegstra, I wanted to check with you to see if you received the email that I sent you earlier this week. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:32, 27 July 2012 (EDT)

I got it. Thanks! I was out of town at the beginning of the week. --Pkeegstra 09:03, 27 July 2012 (EDT)


Look at citation for ... [10 September 2012]

Maartje Pieters DeGroot - if needs to be corrected, let me know. I will go back and add other citations for Spoelhof then.

Deb Hall (nee Spoolhoff, in Wisconsin)--Hal2185 15:24, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

Hi Deb and Pkeegstra, I actually just edited this source (before I saw Deb's message here). I edited the birth date according to Maartje's birth/christening record in Tresoar. I also replaced the marriage source that was there with the "Doop-, Trouw- en Begraafboeken" (christening) source that related to this event. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:31, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
Thanks! FWIW, I'm related to the Spoelhofs descended from Rev. Charles.
P.S, If I understand correctly, since the whole family were born before 1850, it's OK for all of them to have the patronymic. Right? --Pkeegstra 15:55, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
To be honest, I had never heard of that "rule" before. I've always understood that if the person used their patronymic name on official documents, than that is how we can document their name. --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:20, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
Except given the way the geboorte record is set up, the patronymic is rarely applied there, so if the person emigrates before marrying or dying, there will be no record where we might expect a patronymic. So it does not seem unreasonable to have a fallback rule to catch that case. (An alternate fallback might be that the person was born before 1850 and a younger sibling of the same gender uses a patronymic.) --Pkeegstra 16:30, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

First Wife of Gerrard Staal? [6 December 2012]

The question which currently has me stumped is the identity of the wife of Gerrard Staal. --Pkeegstra 19:32, 23 November 2012 (EST)

We think we finally tracked this down. Gerrard Staal's first wife was Jantje van der Veen, the sister of his second wife. Jantje's first husband was Eisse Nanninga who was in America even though he does not appear in the Groningen emigration records. Many thanks to Henk and Jennifer for helping work this out. --Pkeegstra 16:14, 6 December 2012 (EST)

Western Reserve boundaries [20 January 2013]

Hi Pkeegstra,

My apologies for the delay getting back to you. Here is a link for a Western Reserve map with modern county boundaries included. http://www.case.edu/artsci/wrss/documents/HaddadMapWesternReserveOverlay.pdf

If you look at an Atlas for Ohio, the west border of the Western Reserve follows the western borders of Erie & Huron Counties, except for perhaps the small "finger" of the lake side of Erie (I did not see that on the older map. None of Ottawa Co. was included in the W.R. by the way.

The Southern border is where the partial counties apply. If you draw a straight line east to west by using the southern borders for Huron, Medina and Portage Counties all the way to Pennsylvania, the Western Reserve southern border results. Therefore, the top tier of Ashland Co townships is in the W.R., the bottom tier of Summit Co. townships is not in W.R., and the bottom tier of Mahoning Co. townships is also not in the W.R.

The Firelands section includes both Erie & Huron Counties, plus the far NW township in Ashland County. The old map of W.R. is featured on its Wikipedia page. Hope this is fairly clear. --Neal Gardner 16:08, 6 December 2012 (EST)

Thanks! That's very helpful. --Pkeegstra 16:10, 6 December 2012 (EST)

You're quite welcome ! That was a challenge to describe in words, takes me back to college English. If you need anything else, don't hesitate to ask.--Neal Gardner 16:18, 6 December 2012 (EST)

I enumerated the modern counties in and partially in the Western Reserve on the place page. Was there a numbering scheme for the Western Reserve townships like the well-known one for US Land Survey townships? --Pkeegstra 16:17, 20 January 2013 (EST)

St Andrew's Cemetery, Grand Rapids [19 December 2012]

Thanks for the info on the cemeteries in Grand Rapids. It will definitely be the Catholic one.

The McDermotts are part of a large (huge is a better description) collection of people from a small area of Ontario provided to WR by someone who left a whole lot of red-inked places in the neighbourhood. Just for fun I have been sorting them out. Our researcher only studied the Catholic part of the population. (I didn't know there were any Protestants in the area at all until I looked at the census!--Religion was always one of the questions on a Canadian census.)

Mary Cuddahy McDermott appears to have been born in Ireland in 1846 (both parents born Tipperary). She was third of seven children and the last three were definitely born in Mara, Ontario, but the original entry for her says born Ireland. No date for emigration, but it should be in the 1901 census for some of her siblings who stayed home. Looks like a just-post-famine migration. These census immigration dates are something our original researcher didn't look at and I haven't got around to it for this particular family group yet.

Censuses are my chief interest and I often find that an extended break of more that two years between birth dates in a string of children indicates the date of a migration.
--goldenoldie 02:38, 19 December 2012 (EST)

Thanks! These two Irish in Grand Rapids caught my attention because at some point I'll want to start work on my Irish uncle's line, and he's spent his whole life there. --Pkeegstra 06:32, 19 December 2012 (EST)

Quebec again [16 January 2013]

Would you please take a look at Person:Alice Forestal and her Quebec problem. Thanks.

--goldenoldie 11:41, 26 December 2012 (EST)

I assume you want it to say Montreal, Lower Canada. But the Montreal page references the 1900 Quebec. That calls for a place pipe. --Pkeegstra 11:55, 26 December 2012 (EST)
Yes, I do. But in Ontario/Canada West/Upper Canada I've got used to writing, for instance, "Orillia, Simcoe, Canada West, Canada" and the pipe is put in automatically.
That additional step required might be because of the accents.
There is an ambiguity with the burial place. "Notre Dame de Quebec" is the cathedral in Quebec City. The one in Montreal is just called "Notre Dame Basilica". Do we go with the one in Montreal? (I've defined both as cemeteries.)
--Pkeegstra 12:25, 26 December 2012 (EST)
I wondered about that. I don't know Montreal and Quebec like the back of my hand. Better go with the two places.
Another question. I think our search engine differentiates between Montreal (English spelling) and Montreal (with an acute accent as the French)? If so, how do we add an acute accent without something handy to cut-and-paste from? --goldenoldie 14:23, 26 December 2012 (EST)
I know how to do it on a Mac. I haven't figured out yet how to do it on Windows either. --Pkeegstra 16:48, 14 January 2013 (EST)
I use ALT-codes on Windows. For an é, I press and hold down the ALT key while typing in the numbers 0233 on the keypad. Here is a list of ALT-codes for other foreign language letters. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:34, 16 January 2013 (EST)
Thanks for the ALT-codes. They are now saved to all sorts of bookmark folders as well as Evernote. --goldenoldie 06:46, 16 January 2013 (EST)

Jacob Jans Kingma [14 January 2013]

Gosh, I remember working on the 2 Jan Jacobs Kingma pages. Definitely an unusual situation and a source for some initial confusion! --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:38, 14 January 2013 (EST)

Yeah, I was glad you had already sorted them out by the time I got here. I had noticed them before, but didn't think to add a link for them. So I resolved to add the link if I ever found them again, and was amused when I did find them again that they were my direct relatives. --Pkeegstra 16:43, 14 January 2013 (EST)

[29 jan 2013]

Can you give me some help with this one?

Place:Nieuw Amersfoort, Flatlands, Kings, New York, United StatesNieuw Amersfoort

Am I doing this the right way or do I have to edit Flatlands?--henk 10:57, 29 January 2013 (EST)

It depends on what you are trying to do. If you consider "Nieuw Amersfoort" to be the same place as "Flatlands", then you would want to edit the Flatlands page. If "Nieuw Amersfoort" was a place located within the place presently known as Flatlands (a strict subset), then the way you have set it up is fine.
If you are going by the the NL Wikipedia text (which I Google-translated), then yes, it sounds like "Nieuw Amersfoort" _is_ "Flatlands", so the first case would be the right way, and you should add the name and the text to the Flatlands page.. --Pkeegstra 11:36, 29 January 2013 (EST)
EN Wikipedia has an article somewhere with a list of all the notable settlements in Nieuw-Nederland. One of the things I have been meaning to do is to add that list to Nieuw-Nederland and use "also located in" to add all those settlements to that page. --Pkeegstra 11:41, 29 January 2013 (EST)


FYI

Settlement of Gravesend, Long Island

Category Dutch Reformed Church cemeteries [19 February 2013]

I have created a category for Category:Dutch Reformed Church cemeteries in order to collect cemeteries from the historical Dutch Reformed churches in North America and also the RCA and CRC churches.

I was wondering if it might make more sense to have the sort keys for these Category:Ethnic and religious cemeteries be Country, State/Province rather than cemetery name, since there are usually only a small number per state/province and cemeteries of the same category in very different places tend to have similar names.

--Pkeegstra 17:28, 11 February 2013 (EST)

I came accross this site [4] do you think it can be usefull? --henk 08:22, 19 February 2013 (EST)

Fascinating. Since it covers multiple churches maybe we can put the link on the category page.... --Pkeegstra 09:38, 19 February 2013 (EST)

Gravesend [18 February 2013]

Good evening

Would you please take a look at Place:Gravesend Reformed Church Cemetery, Brooklyn, Kings, New York, United States and see if I added this one right?

--henk 14:23, 18 February 2013 (EST)

Looks good! I added a couple categories.
To change the subject completely, I found a Huizenga in Grand Rapids and since I'm on vacation and away from some of my sources I was having a bit of trouble tracking down her parents. --Pkeegstra 18:36, 18 February 2013 (EST)

New Utrecht [19 February 2013]

Place:New Utrecht Reformed Dutch Church Cemetery, Brooklyn, Kings, New York, United States--henk 13:02, 19 February 2013 (EST)


Dutch Settlement Cemetery [22 February 2013]

and another one Place:Dutch Settlement Cemetery, Schoharie, New York, United States--henk 13:46, 19 February 2013 (EST)

Thanks! I added them both to the category. --Pkeegstra 14:44, 19 February 2013 (EST)

and a few more: :-)

Place:Rhinebeck Reformed Dutch Church Cemetery, Rhinebeck (town), Dutchess, New York, United States

Place:Prospect Cemetery, Jamaica, Queens, New York, United States

Place:Reformed Church on Staten Island Cemetery, Port Richmond, Richmond, New York, United States

Got them! Thanks! --Pkeegstra 15:52, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Alsace [10 June 2013]

Hello,

My Alsace-Lorraine tips would be that being border land it has meant that France and Germany are provided as the country but many said they came from Alsace not either of the two countries that disputed the region.

Geneanet is used a lot by genealogists in the region. Once you can narrow down to what commune there are mostly easy and free to access registers and documents. Apparently due to the nature of small communities their was once a decree from a bishop of Alsace that all families had to maintain a family tree which had to be presented at time of marriage to avoid relatives who were to close, marrying.

By the way thanks for letting me know about how to fix the page I asked about.

Jeffrey--JeffreyRLehrer 14:17, 6 March 2013 (EST)

For the record, it turns out I was looking at the wrong family. I tracked down my girlfriend's actual line, and it has noone from Alsace. --Pkeegstra 17:23, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

Katie Jousma daughter of Jacob [21 May 2013]

Katie Jousma VanderLaan is my great grandmother. I am working on a geneology book for my father and would love any pictures of her branch of the family. Is there anyone who I can contact to see if any exist?

I also have the information for the childred of Brugt (Frank) and Katie VanderLaan if anyone is interested in it.--Dmv34l 22:33, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

Unfortunately, I'm the wrong person to ask for pictures. I don't even have pictures of my immediate ancestors. It's funny how that works; my Mom is a photographer, but she doesn't do people. If you aren't on Ancestry, I can check there for you.
More info about the children would be great. Death dates for anyone born after 1903 are especially appreciated, because once we have that we can put up a person page. --Pkeegstra 06:44, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
P.S. My Dad's great-uncle Nicholas Kamp was married to Katie's sister Hattie (Hendrikje).
I found a picture of Hattie (Hinke) Kamp Bosma and Johannes Bosma at Ancestry. It looks like that's the best I can do. (n.b. there are at least 3 Hattie Kamps of that era: Hinke Kamp Bosma, Harmke Kamp Keegstra Koeze, and your great-great-aunt Hendrikje Jousma Kamp.) --Pkeegstra 20:11, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

Thank you so much for the reply. Unfortunately my father passed away on March 30, so I have not had free time to spend working on this project in the last few weeks. I would love to see the pictures you were able to find. A direct relative or not the pictures are still cool. In the book I was making I ended up using a few pictures of relatives who we can't identify. Just too cool to leave out. --Dmv34l 19:59, 21 May 2013 (EDT)


Harper's [Harpers] Ferry [27 April 2013]

Thanks for the note on Harper's Ferry.

Harpers Ferry was first settled in 1732 by Peter Stephens, whose "squatter's rights" were bought in 1747 by Robert Harper, for whom the town was named. In about 1750 Harper was given a patent on 125 acres (0.5 km²) at the present location of the town. In 1761 Harper established a ferry across the Potomac River, making the town a starting point for settlers moving into the Shenandoah Valley and further west. In 1763 the Virginia General Assembly established the town of "Shenandoah Falls at Mr. Harper's Ferry." On 25 October 1783, Thomas Jefferson visited Harpers Ferry. He viewed "the passage of the Potomac though the Blue Ridge" from a rock which is now named for him. Jefferson called the site "perhaps one of the most stupendous scenes in nature." [5].

Since it was established by the 1750's, it was then in [then] Frederick County and later in Berkeley County, so I've updated the Harpers Ferry page to acknowledge that fact, so persons that had events in Harper's Ferry are shown in the correct county. If a person was born in "Harper's Ferry" in the 1700's was shown to be born in Jefferson County [a county that did not exist until 1801], it would be factually incorrect....

Have a great weekend,

Jim:)--Delijim 09:29, 27 April 2013 (EDT)

Thanks for the extra effort tracking the evolution of the counties containing Harpers Ferry. Whatever one's interpretation of the "1900 rule" might be (on the span of "factually incorrect" to "intentionally anachronistic"), that is definitely valuable information. --Pkeegstra 10:12, 27 April 2013 (EDT)

Hendrik de Cock [17 May 2013]

Hi, I saw you're watching the Hendrik de Cock page :-). Then this might interest you too!: Landverhuizers and meanwhile I keep busy with theGroninger emigranten--henk 09:05, 15 May 2013 (EDT)

Yes, thanks for putting him up! I know who he is, because my father is a minister in the CRC whose academic specialty is Church History. I'm a bit surprised none of de Cock's children joined the emigration.

Hendrick de Cock himself had nothing to do with the emigration, it was the idea of van Raalte. De Cock himself leaded the "Chistelijke Afgescheiden Kerk" in Groningen and Drenthe. In 1848 with the new constitition there was freedom of religion. His oldest son followed him [6]and became a professor. his other son became a lawyer and his daughters married businesman, Their life conditions weren't bad so they had no reason to go :-)--henk 09:28, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

BTW, I was confused and thought Albertus van Raalte needed to be added, too, but I found his page this morning, and I see Jennifer added him in 2011.
--Pkeegstra 09:21, 15 May 2013 (EDT)

Trout Run in Hardy County, Virginia [31 May 2013]

Hello, I got your message regarding Trout Run in Hardy County, Virginia. Trout Run, according to wikipedia "Trout Run rises between Devils Hole Mountain and Great North Mountain near the Virginia state line in the George Washington National Forest. The stream empties into the Cacapon River at Wardensville".

Wardensville is listed as a community along Trout Run, so they are not the same, since Trout Run is a waterway and Wardensville is a town that sits beside Trout Run.... Ideally, it would make sense to add "Waterway" to the list of "Places" on WeRelate to more accurately reflect Rivers and tributaries versus neighboring towns....

Link as follows: Trout Run wikipedia link

Hope that helps. Best regards, have a great week,

Jim:)--Delijim 18:54, 30 May 2013 (EDT)

Thanks! I can bring this to the Place Committee and the Oversight Committee.... WR does have a policy on oceans, but I'm not aware of any for rivers. For oceans and international waters, it is suggested to use At Sea as the place and write in the description field whatever is known beyond that concerning the ship or the location. --Pkeegstra 06:25, 31 May 2013 (EDT)



Old news on the Main Page [9 June 2013]

As an admin and member of the oversight committee, can I raise with you the continuing embarrassment of the Main Page "news" section that still refers to something that happened 10 months ago. As I've set out on my user page, this is something that editors have been raising for weeks now. I have personally approached three admins and got nowhere: the first, Jrm03063 referred it to the oversight committee; the second, oversight committee member JBS66, referred it to the social networking committee; the third, oversight & social networking committee member, Klaas, replied that he is on holiday for a month.

This is ridiculous. Six weeks ago it was pointed out that "something that tired sends the wrong message". Taking six weeks to respond is completely at odds with the point of a wiki!

It will take you less than a minute to fix this: simply remove the box entirely from the page, and then once someone has drafted some new text they can simply add it back in. Are you able to do this? AndrewRT 20:10, 8 June 2013 (EDT)


Multiple Geert Ritsemas [20 June 2013]

Don't forget that Ritse or Ritze is a patronym ;-) and there were a lot of Ritzes/Ritses in Groningen before 1800. The both in Wittewierum can be related. The distance between Westerlee and Wittewierum is to large (I think) --henk 07:33, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

OK. I see that the combination of Geert and Ritze is not particularly unusual. But I'm pretty sure that the two people below from Ten Boer have a common ancestor. There is a good chance that the common ancestor is named Godefrijdus (i.e. Fridus).

--Pkeegstra 19:49, 20 June 2013 (EDT)


Kingwood, Virginia [6 August 2013]

Howdy, got your message, the places are the same, so I've updated the existing page indicating that it was in Monongalia from 1776 to 1815, and deleted the newer page. Good catch!

Have a great week and best regards,

Jim:)--Delijim 17:26, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

Thanks! I recognized the name because there used to be an excursion train there, so I was surprised WR didn't already have a page for it. (Alas, I believe the tracks are long gone.) --Pkeegstra 17:41, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

I'm very envious! I wish I were closer to Virginia... :( With all of the Virginia work I've done over the past few years, I really need to schedule a trip in the near future...

Take care,

Jim:)


Brush Creek and Anthony Place Names [22 November 2013]

Hi Pkeegstra, got your message on the place names. They two Brush Creek's should likely be merged, likely with the "Brush Creek" spelling as the primary. The Anthony's should likely also be merged with the alternate spellings included so it will match future entries. If you can tell me how to merge them, I'll try to do this in the future. (I'm assuming that all Admins can do this, but I don't see it as an option when I am on a place page).

One note regarding place names, I've thought for several months that we should allow "Churches" as a Place type. It seems strange that "Cemeteries" are allowed, but "Churches" are not. Also, "Waterways" should be allowed as place types, since many early settlers referred to the areas that they lived in by the closest River, Stream, Run or Creek. Allowing "Waterways" as a place type would solve this dilemma.

Thanks much,

Jim:)--Delijim 18:13, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

There is no merge option for places, for admins or anyone else. To merge places one moves the desired content from the one to the other and then redirects to the place page to be retained, as explained here and elsewhere.
And what you propose for both churches and internal waterways is exactly what was discussed at the Oversight Committee, which decided to retain the status quo in both cases.
P.S. Could you please point me to a source for the "Brush Creek" spelling? Then I'll go ahead and cite that. My DeLorme Atlas and Wikipedia both use "Brushcreek".
--Pkeegstra 18:21, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

It appears the predominent spelling is "Brushcreek", but there are some Ancestry Trees, Rootsweb records and Message Board postings that have it as "Brush Creek", such as:

[7]

It seems contrary to conventional wisdom (to me) to spell it "Brushcreek" over "Brush Creek", since normally you'd see "Cedar Creek" over "Cedarcreek", or "Salt Creek" over "Saltcreek", etc., etc.

In fact, in Early Augusta County, I don't recall a single creek where "Creek" wasn't separate from the identifying portion, so this one is somewhat "counter-intuitive" versus most....

Best regards,

Jim

Transcriptions of both 1840 and 1900 census use "Brush Creek" but the actual 1900 image uses "Brushcreek". And I'm afraid we'll never know what logic if any was behind the spelling change. --Pkeegstra 00:36, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Albert Terhune (5) [19 December 2013]

Looking for assistance. Here's what I have:

1) Albert Terhune (5) and Albert Terhuyne (1) are the same person. The files should be merged, but I've hesitated doing so because of the details that follow.

2) The record shows Albert Terhune (5) married to Hendrickje Van Voorhees (1) born abt 1634 --> note that her name is spelled with a capital V in Van. This marriage is not correct. Hendrickje Van Voorhees (1)'s record is correct in its entirely except for her marriage to Albert5.

3) The record also shows Albert Terhuyne (1) married to Hendrickje van Voorhees (1) born abt 1660 --> note her name is spelled with a lower-case v in van. This marriage is correct. Hendrickje van Voorhees (1) "lower case" is a separate person from "upper case" Hendrickje1 - both with the same father, but different mothers. See:

Christoph, Florence A. Van Voorhees Family in America: The First Six Generations. (Baltimore, MD: Van Voorhees Association, 2000), pp. 2, 10, 11. "Hendrickje Stevense van Voorhees, born circa 1660, probably in Holland; married Albert Albertsz Terhuyne, son of Albert Terjuyne and Geertje (--?--), circa 1676; died circa 1693. She was the second daughter to be named Hendrickje. The 1677 list of members of the Flatlands Reformed church mentions Albert Albertse and wife Hendrickje Stevense the younger, thus distinguishing her from her older half sister."

How does/should one go about cleaning the record up? Having trouble getting my arms around it...--Frank 21:19, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

I'd manually edit the problematic family page by dropping V(1) and connecting v(1). Then both family pages would be correct and that one can be merged into Family:Albert Terhuyne and Hendrickje van Voorhees (1) cleanly. --Pkeegstra 11:28, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
P.S. I am extremely pleased that you have tracked down some real sources and are giving so many of the New Amsterdam families a good cleanup. My brother-in-law and my girlfriend both have New Amsterdam ancestry, but I could never do that much for cleanup because I had only internet sources.
I just did the merge, but Albert could use a good cleanup now. (Is the 1705 marriage disputed, that the range of possible death dates precedes that?)

Thanks! You made that change look easy. I'll take a shot at lightly cleaning up Albert's page. In my short time here, I've learned to tread lightly lest I step on someone's toes...--Frank 18:35, 19 December 2013 (UTC)


Just took a shot at cleaning up Albert's page. Looks better to me now. Take a look as you've time and let me know... P.S. You were right about the marriage/death dates. They needed some work!--Frank 19:07, 19 December 2013 (UTC)


Watercooler problem 4-5 January 2014 [5 January 2014]

This was the first message which when I linked to the Watercooler page I got the wide spread.

"WeRelate talk:Watercooler" has been changed by AndrewRT at 22:32, 4 January 2014. Edit summary: /* Werelate on the rise */ why?

View the changes: http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=WeRelate_talk:Watercooler&diff=0&oldid=20182598

Switching directly over to Watercooler now everything appears clean. But that is not to say it won't happen from another email message.

Thanks. --Goldenoldie 16:39, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

I didn't see anything which looks like it would cause long lines and confuse the page formatter in those changes. The revision immediately preceding the one you indicated did contain URLs, but they were protected with [] and not especially long. If it happens again, or you see the same thing on another page, please give us a shout and we'll have a look. --Pkeegstra 21:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Further to Discussion on Support Page: Places in Devon [14 January 2014]

I just made a new discovery while trying to sort out the birth location for someone who married into my family in Canada.

GENUKI's gazetteer. I use GENUKI as a reference a lot working from the county pages, but I had never discovered the nationwide gazetteer before. It holds co-ordinates and links back to the notes on the parish, even when the name of the place does not come up in the parish description. In Devon (although not in every county) each parish page contains a map locating it.

I tend to look upon GENUKI as a very old-fashioned website providing very old information. It depends on 19th century gazetteers (and in Yorkshire that means the 1820s before civil registration!). There was a nationwide reorganization of municipal boundaries in 1974. Wikipedia provides the geography after 1974. A Vision of Britain through Time deals with the inbetween to a degree, but could go into a lot more detail than it does. --Goldenoldie 11:15, 14 January 2014 (UTC)


Talk Change, Why? [28 March 2014]

Why was this done?

Rgbarnes,

"User talk:Rgbarnes" has been changed by Pkeegstra at 14:19, 21 January 2014. Edit summary: Farmington (Avon) [21 January 2014]

Ron--Rgbarnes 22:29, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Are you asking about the vehicle or the content? Talk pages are the vehicle for users to collaborate with other users here on WR. And part of that collaboration includes discussing how to fit new places into the WeRelate place page heierarchy. The WeRelate place page heierarchy is intended to be a comprehensive structure defining an unique page for each place within a single heierarchical framework, specifically the heierarchy which applied in 1900. So it is a priority with us to keep pages at the applicable level in the heierarchy and to recognize and redirect duplicate pages. So even if your area of expertise is not such that you can assist us in maintaining the place heierarchy, we appreciate your understanding if we find it necessary to rework your place contributions from time to time. --pkeegstra 21:09, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Visit to Holland [12 jun 2014]

Hello: Bill Collins here son of Patricia Collins (Spoolhoff) daughter of John spoolhoff of ladysmith WIsconsin. I will be visiting holland this June and would love to visit with any relatives. Please send me a message at William.k.Collins.Vic@ mail.mil. thanks.--William collins 01:51, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

That's good to hear, but I live close by Washington DC; I haven't lived in West Michigan for some 25 years. But if you have any people buried at Arlington, I could show you around there..... --Pkeegstra 02:01, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Most likely the Dutch name will be Spoelhoff or Spoelhof. woepwoep 07:44, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks but haven't looked to my relatives who are buried in Arlington. I know of two that survived Andersonville and moved to Ohio. Thanks and take care.--William collins 14:54, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Surviving Andersonville is pretty neat! Of the handful of my people who came over before 1860, I can't document any who served, but at least two did marry war widows. BTW, I get to central Ohio (Franklin County and Delaware County) a lot more often than West Michigan. I'd be happy to look something up for you if that would be handy. --pkeegstra 21:01, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

BTW, speaking of the Civil War, one of my brick walls is this couple Van Braak and Rotmans. He died with the Union Army in Tennessee, and my 4th great-uncle married his widow. I think they're from Gelderland, but unless they are indexed, there are a lot of gemeenten in Gelderland for an exhaustive search. --pkeegstra 00:30, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Names of the sources [9 June 2014]

Best, only the sites/place should be renamed to 1900. Sources not. For example, the marital status of a former municipality remains the civil status of the former municipality. The municipality is that particular period and not 1900. Names of the sources remain original. Groet, --Lidewij 19:44, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

OK, if that is the consensus preference, I'll be more than happy to do things that way in the future. Shall I convert the set of 4-tiered sources I created most recently, or will that just add more complication? --pkeegstra 00:23, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Uvilla duplicates [14 July 2014]

Howdy, I've combined Uvilla onto the Jefferson County, WV Page and deleted the other two.

Thanks, have a great week,

Jim:)--Delijim 12:41, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! That was my most optimistic outcome, that all 3 were the same place.... --pkeegstra 18:43, 14 July 2014 (UTC)