User talk:Pkeegstra


Contacting Me [10 January 2015]

If you ask a question here on my talk page, I will reply here (so please Watch this page). If I start a new thread on your talk page, I will Watch that page and reply there or indicate some other appropriate talk page for followup.

Because of past experience with attempted identity theft, I prefer that the identifier by which I have chosen to be known on WeRelate be used and that my personal name not be allowed to leak out to the public internet. Collaborating WeRelate investigators are welcome to request my personal name and the names of my living family members who link to the persons with pages on WeRelate via private email.

Stupid Questions [15 December 2011]

I know about the support page. This is where I record stupid questions I'm too shy to post there.

  • Does this site have a relationship calculator? I'm looking for a form which takes person A and person B, and tells you whether they are related, and if so how to get from A to B. The support page suggests such functionality is more appropriate on one's desktop genealogy program, but how can I construct a GEDCOM containing persons A and B to load into my desktop program if I don't know how to get from A to B?
  • Is it permitted to name living people in contexts other than a person page per se? For example, if I want to acknowledge curators of other websites which contain subsets of my family, and they identify themselves on their pages, I presume I can name them, right?--Pkeegstra 09:51, 11 November 2011 (EST)

Hi, these are good questions. WeRelate does not have a relationship calculator (I wish we did :) If you did know how to get from A to B, you can put each person into a Tree and then Export a GEDCOM of that tree. Otherwise, there is no automatic way to calculate relationships on WR.

Yes, you can name the sources of your information. WR just doesn't want pages to be created for living people due to privacy concerns. You would want to avoid adding the person's email address or other personal information in your source citation.

Lastly, the Support page really is a good place for questions like this. We also have a Watercooler page, but that is a bit more advanced, and sometimes not as friendly for new users as the Support page is. --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:26, 11 November 2011 (EST)

Many thanks, Jennifer! --Pkeegstra 10:37, 11 November 2011 (EST)

A new stupid question.

  • What, if any, copyright status can be specified for images of United States state vital records produced since 1923?

--Pkeegstra 15:57, 11 November 2011 (EST)

Here are two pages with information about Text and Image copyrights:

If you obtained the images from Ancestry or FamilySearch, you can choose the " limited use license" or "FamilySearch limited use license" when uploading the image. If you still need assistance with this, I'd suggest the Support page, because there are other admins watching that page who are more knowledgeable about copyright issues than I am. --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:06, 11 November 2011 (EST)

I was thinking specifically of scans I make of documents I purchased from county clerks in Michigan, such as the birth certificates I have for Melvin and Berend Huisman, which were typed in 1995 based on records in their custody. So I guess this one is not so stupid, and worth asking on the support page. --Pkeegstra 16:18, 11 November 2011 (EST)

A new stupid question.

Despite my deficiencies in the Dutch language, I found search sites for church records prior to 1811 in the provinces of Groningen and Friesland. Is there a comparable search site for Gelderland? I found the Gelderland Archive, but I can't see anything obvious. --Pkeegstra 16:33, 14 December 2011 (EST)

Gelders Archief does have records for some municipalites before 1811. From their homepage, type a name into the search box and click on the round button next to "personen". The next screen will provide additional filtering options. For scanned documents, you could check out and Two other sites to look at for website resource ideas are and --Jennifer (JBS66) 11:20, 15 December 2011 (EST)

New Netherland Book Recommendation and Calendar Question [20 December 2011]

Not exactly a stupid question, but not the sort of thing one finds on the support page.

Does anyone know of a good book with Reformed Church records from New Netherland analogous to the Connecticut Barbour collection? The period of Dutch administration is essential, but continuity into the period of British administration would be a big plus.

This from Kingston, NY sounds like the sort of thing I'm looking for. Is this as useful as it sounds? I found a bunch more likely candidates when I used the keywords "reformed churches" in my search over sources. Which other ones are also particularly useful? Am I interpreting correctly that some of these, like this one, are available on Ancestry? Are there some not yet in the sources list I should consider?

BTW, according to Wikipedia in 17th century Netherlands (before 1700) Julian versus Gregorian calendar varied from province to province. Sounds pretty chaotic, but which did New Netherland use? I don't even want to think about the calendric ambiguities induced by the switch from the Dutch calendar to the English calendar.

--Pkeegstra 11:43, 13 December 2011 (EST)

Trijntje van der Woude [9 January 2012]

I am not related to Trijntje she is a part from the Bouma's tree--Tp 15:33, 9 January 2012 (EST)

Thanks! Yes, that's why I first noticed her. I am a Bouma, and my Bouma great-great-grandfather was married to a van der Woude. So I looked, but I never found a link to her. But I put up a page for her anyways, because of her story. --Pkeegstra 16:03, 9 January 2012 (EST)

Lucy Hannah Unknown [12 January 2012]

Hi, just doing clean up. I found a page requesting help cleaning up old GEDCOM uploads in which people with ??? for a first name, surname and both are listed [1] and have been working my way through the list.

On another subject, if any of your MI folks found their way out to Lynden, WA I might have some resources. --Susan Irish 19:48, 11 January 2012 (EST)

I have a bunch of folks in Lynden, WA. (That's like Grand Rapids of the West Coast!) We'll need to compare notes. Probably offline, since most of the ones I'm thinking of are living. --Pkeegstra 19:54, 11 January 2012 (EST)

I see Antje (Anna) Tjoelker in the system. I have a second cousin who married a Tjoelker, and I have a family in my church whose grandmother was a Tjoelker. So if we can collaboratively fill out that line as the nonlivingness policy permits, that would be great. (I suspect all the Tjoelkers in Lynden are descended from just one family.) I found her parents in GENLIAS. I wonder if they were the first Lynden Tjoelkers? --Pkeegstra 13:15, 12 January 2012 (EST)

Heavens! These people are related to me! Tije Tjoelker's parents are Meindert Tjoelker and Antje Vaatstra, and Antje Vaatstra's grandmother was a Keegstra. See Hessel Gerrits & Antje Rinses Part One. --Pkeegstra 15:05, 12 January 2012 (EST)

Edna Tjoelker [15 January 2012]

Hi, I have added Martha and Bessie to the family. Edna married Jacob Vos 18 Feb 1943 and it looks like she is still living. A possible birth date for her is 6 Mar 1921. --Susan Irish 16:13, 15 January 2012 (EST)

I just found out this morning from conversations at church that Edna was the one who married the Vos. No info either way on whether she was still living, though. Thanks! --Pkeegstra 16:22, 15 January 2012 (EST)

Roorda [19 January 2012]

Hi, I have no proof on Nicholas Roorda's family BUT the 1930 census shows a son, Nicholas, of Mient & Hiltje that looks promising.

By the way Edna Vos is still listed in local phone directory.--Susan Irish 17:32, 17 January 2012 (EST)

What identifying info do we have for the Nicholas Roorda who married Martha? Anything? --Pkeegstra 17:52, 17 January 2012 (EST)

For the record, the consensus was to go with Nicholas Roorda (1913-2000) because his date of birth fits a marriage in 1936 better and the death places match. --Pkeegstra 17:09, 19 January 2012 (EST)

Foster Lincoln [19 January 2012]

Hi, There is a Foster Lincoln who married Martha Rogers, both of Wiscasset, 3 Mar 1843 who might be the brother of Mary (Lincoln) Crosby. --Susan Irish 16:45, 19 January 2012 (EST)

All the entries for that couple at Rootsweb have them both born in Phippsburg. Both places are in Lincoln County, so I'm not sure if that's a distinction which makes a difference. Maybe because that's where all their children were born.

(I've found a couple of the Lincoln children at Rootsweb. But noone at Rootsweb has all 8 Lincoln children linked together.) --Pkeegstra 17:00, 19 January 2012 (EST)

1850 census has:

Foster Lincoln          M       30y     (Maine)
Martha Lincoln          F       35y     (Maine)
Georgianna Lincoln      F        6y     (Maine)
Isaac T Lincoln         M        4y     (Maine)
Clara C Lincoln         F        2y     (Maine)
Oragina Lincoln         F        2y     (Maine)

(In Phippsburg, Lincoln County, Maine)

1870 census has:

James B Drake           M       32y     (Maine)
Georgianna Drake        F       25y     (Maine)
Ora G Lincoln           F       22y     (Maine)
Martha Lincoln          F       55y     (Maine)
Osaac F Lincoln         M       24y     (Maine)

(In Bath, Sagadahoc County, Maine)

In the 1850 census that was the only Foster Lincoln in the US in the range 1819-1821, so I'm getting more convinced. And it looks like he's gone by 1870. --Pkeegstra 17:41, 19 January 2012 (EST)

Tfb6972 GEDCOM [13 February 2012]

The number of pages in this upload appears to be in the thousands. It has been around for almost five years so many pages have been merged. A lot of the pages don't make any sense as you have pointed out.just looking briefly I found a worse example on the 2nd page I looked at no dates no documentation no relatives and the names don't match. My line descends from Roeloff Martense Schenck I inherited my information from a great aunt who died in 1959. Neither she nor I, at the time, understood the need for proper documentation, and apparently most others following this line don't either. I suspect much can be found in HISTORY OF MONMOUTH COUNTY, NEW JERSEY by Franklin Ellis. I don't have a copy but I think I have seen a microfilm of it at our local FHC. Sources badly needed for these folks.--Scot 16:14, 13 February 2012 (EST)

Yeah, I had a look and I also found a lot of stuff with no compelling need to retain. Even some living folks. Will a block delete mess up pages which have already been merged or otherwise fixed up? JBS66 was just valiantly trying to apply the Van Voorhees book to the first family I identified for her. I've promised a user page which enumerates all the churches and links to their sources; it looks like records from almost all the churches have been transcribed in one form or another. Of course, many seem only to be imaged and not transcribed, so an expertise in seventeenth century Dutch script is essential. --Pkeegstra 16:23, 13 February 2012 (EST)
BTW, my brother-in-law is a Morris from the Couwenhovens, so you and he may be related. --Pkeegstra 16:29, 13 February 2012 (EST)
The idea of deleting "junk" gedcoms from WR has been brought up a few times. Each time, the decision is to keep the pages and essentially work with what we have. The only larger scale deletion that is planned for the future are deleting empty pages for living people. --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:09, 13 February 2012 (EST)
OK. When I find living people, should I mark them for speedy delete then? --Pkeegstra 17:12, 13 February 2012 (EST)
You can mark them for SD. If you do, please add the date that you added the template to the page in your SD text so that it appears on the page. This makes it easier for the admin deleting the page to make sure enough warning time has been given. Also, if a living person was married, the family page also needs to be marked. However, if the living pages are empty, they should be deleted with the above mentioned project, but I'm not sure when that is slated to happen. --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:18, 13 February 2012 (EST)

Pilon in Whatcom County [27 February 2012]

Hi, I am finding a Ralph Pilon, son of Jacob & Hilje, born in Dakota, who married Anna Assink. Also found a daughter, Alice Pilon, b. Dec 1878, m. Boerhave. A John P. Pilon m. Minnie Boerhave -- not sure if he was a son as no details given with this record. The Gerrit b. East Indies, appears to have married under the name of Ralph G. J. T. Pilon giving parents names as Tonke(?) Pilon and Jennie Meyers. --Susan Irish 17:08, 27 February 2012 (EST)

One of us will need to add Ralph born in Dakota. According to the 1930 census it was South Dakota ABT 1887.

Alice Pilon must be Aaltje. The year is wrong but the month matches, and it's a common Americanization.

I saw John P Pilon in the census; he is almost certainly Jan Pieter.

Here are Tonke Pilon and Jennie Meyers. The only child we have for them was born in Netherlands in 1881. But are you sure that Gerrit is Ralph and not Jan Berend Roelf Jacobus Tonke?

--Pkeegstra 17:24, 27 February 2012 (EST)

I added Ralph (and changed his name to Roelof based on the 1900 census). --Pkeegstra 17:51, 27 February 2012 (EST)

Hendricks in Michigan [4 March 2012]

Hi, I have identified the first wife of Herman/Harmon Hendricks as Hattie Dubin or something similar. The marriage is said to have taken place in Michigan. Can you find it? --Susan Irish 18:25, 29 February 2012 (EST)

I tried and wasn't having much luck. Let me see if they are both listed in one of the censuses which records marriage date. --Pkeegstra 19:43, 29 February 2012 (EST)
I got it to work by using just the marriage date from the 1900 census and her name, ignoring his name. What bugs me is not being able to do better than "Germany" for the birthplaces. I tried my new Ancestry subscription, but I'm afraid I don't have the hang of it yet, because I didn't find anything useful. The whole Hendricks family is there now. BTW, do we have a category "German Immigrants to the United States" for folks who went straight from Germany to the US, not living for 30 years in the Netherlands in between like my triple-great-grandfather. BTW2, does John Hendricks die before 1930? I can't find him in the census. --Pkeegstra 20:48, 29 February 2012 (EST)
Check out the marriage record for Benjamin Hendricks and Ann Buizer. A location in Germany is given for his parents but it is not clear. --Susan Irish 22:39, 29 February 2012 (EST)
I created a category for Category:German immigrants to the United States. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:24, 1 March 2012 (EST)
Susan, thanks for the place pointer. The place is Bentheim, which is right across the border from Netherlands so I've seen other immigrants from there. BTW, there are two pages for Bentheim: One and Two. I think the one is modern, and the other as per the "1900 rule" but I'm not sure which is which. And Jennifer, thanks for the category. I wonder how long it will take for someone to ask for Austria? --Pkeegstra 09:44, 1 March 2012 (EST)
Speaking of categories, can the category "Dutch conscripts in Napolean's army" be fit into the heierarchy of military categories that was being discussed recently? I saw one of these somewhere in WeRelate, and my friend from church said her double-great grandfather had a brother like that, so we have at least two entries. --Pkeegstra 09:44, 1 March 2012 (EST)
And Susan, FYI there are several English lines in Netherlands, traditionally attributed to sailors. I previously knew of Smith and Quick (which I think is also localized as Kuik). There were Quicks at New Amsterdam, and my girlfriend Kathy is descended from one of those lines. So Quint can go on that list now, too. --Pkeegstra 07:24, 1 March 2012 (EST)
Oh, and Quint can also be spelled Kwint. --Pkeegstra 09:44, 1 March 2012 (EST)

"I have been defeated in my attempt to track down a Netherlands birth record for Adrian Jongeneel. The obvious record was from a child who had died a few months later." Expert assistance will be greatly appreciated. --Pkeegstra 17:34, 4 March 2012 (EST)

I added the birth information for Person:Adrianus Jongeneel (2) as well as his parents. --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:05, 4 March 2012 (EST)
Thank you so much! I assume you went to the images, since GENLIAS has no Adrianus Pieter Jongeneel in 1886 (just Anne Adrianus). How did you know which family and which gemeente to look at? --Pkeegstra 18:12, 4 March 2012 (EST)
I found the bevolkingsregister for Adrianus Pieter and his parents. That told me the birth location for Adrianus was Capelle aan den IJssel. Though the birth date was off, I found the birth record on FS here. It would have been tough without the bevolkingsregister since they moved around a bit! --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:17, 4 March 2012 (EST)

Oosterbaan in Michigan [6 March 2012]

Hi, I find I have a death notice for a Benjamin Oosterbaan who came out to WA to work in the woods and was killed in 1903, age 23, father = John; no relatives in WA but buried Monumenta. Do you want to see if you can find his family? --Susan Irish 22:01, 5 March 2012 (EST)

I've heard of the family. Let's give it a try. I see an 1873 and an 1888, but both are in the 1910 census, and both survive well beyond that. I don't see any 1880; can you tell whether he came "right off the boat" from Netherlands? --Pkeegstra 10:24, 6 March 2012 (EST)

I checked Oosterbaans, and I checked Benjamins in Netherlands 1879-1881. No Oosterbaans whose given names started with 'B' or looked to be likely candidates to Americanize to Benjamin, and no Benjamins with family names starting with 'O'. --Pkeegstra 13:43, 6 March 2012 (EST)

I see a Jennie Burgraff in 1900 born Jul 1893 and living in Sioux County, Iowa, parents Arie and Anna. Does she fit for the spouse of Ben Nymeyer? She may have stayed in Iowa; I see a bunch of Iowa births and marriages with parents Jennie Burgraff and either John Mcmahan or John Van Ginkel.

There's another lady, born in 1907, died in Lynden in 2000, married name is Jennie Burgraff. Her husband Albert has different parents John and Mary, but maybe same extended family. --Pkeegstra 07:14, 6 March 2012 (EST) --Pkeegstra 10:24, 6 March 2012 (EST)

OK, it looks like Jennie Burgraff Jul 1893 is available. Jennie Burgraff Mcmahan was born in 1886 and Jennie/Jane Burgraff Van Ginkel was born in 1849. I see no SSDI for Jennie Nymeyer, so she probably died before 1965. Since she was born before 1900, I can make a page for her without knowing the death date. --Pkeegstra 10:59, 6 March 2012 (EST)

I was all set to add her, when I saw references to a Jennie Burgraff Beckman wife of Alfred Beckman born 1892, living in Lyon County, Iowa in 1920 and 1930. The birth record I found for the daughter of Arie and Anna was for 1892 in Lyon County, Iowa. Yup, there's the marriage record for the daughter of Arie and Anna marrying Alfred Beckman. --Pkeegstra 11:10, 6 March 2012 (EST)

Oops, I missed that you already posted the marriage license, so we have parents' names. Looks like I see her in the 1910 census in Whatcom County as Janie, born 1899 in Minnesota, which matches the license. I think we have this one resolved. --Pkeegstra 11:15, 6 March 2012 (EST)

Whatcom Map [9 March 2012]

Hi, I have uploaded a map [2] showing that I have mixed up Forest City and Forest Grove. I have added the image to the Whatcom County place page. --Susan Irish 19:31, 7 March 2012 (EST)

Excellent! It should be easy for me to correlate those map positions with the map positions on Google Maps and get lat and lon from them. --Pkeegstra 19:50, 7 March 2012 (EST)

You should remove "Lynden" from the description of Ten Mile Cemetery. It is several miles closer to Bellingham from Lynden in Ten Mile township and is still in use. --Susan Irish 22:46, 8 March 2012 (EST)

I was just going by the address in FindAGrave. I'll locate it in the county then. --Pkeegstra 06:50, 9 March 2012 (EST)

Are counties in Washington State partitioned into townships like they are in Michigan? (1885 map of Kent County, MI) If so, then townships would be the preferred place to locate cemeteries not located in incorporated cities or villages. Do you by any chance have a map of Whatcom County showing townships? --Pkeegstra 07:55, 9 March 2012 (EST)

I found this. So Washington and Oregon do land survey a lot like like Michigan. And I found this map of the the Land Survey townships in Washington. I still need a mapping between land survey townships like T 10 N, R 12 W and named townships.--Pkeegstra 10:35, 9 March 2012 (EST)

I think I found what I was looking for here. Not all townships had names, some had just their land survey names. But the ones that did have names, I should be able to extract from this. Should we make places for all the townships, even the ones that use just the land survey names? --Pkeegstra 11:46, 9 March 2012 (EST)

As you discovered Whatcom County is partitioned into townships BUT the word "township" almost never appears in the early records I have extracted except for "Ten Mile Township." The Delta area is almost always called "Delta precinct" but is a township too.--Susan Irish 12:38, 9 March 2012 (EST)

Licking is indeed on the Northern Pacific rail line as per this 1895 map. --Pkeegstra 10:57, 9 March 2012 (EST)

It appears that the name "Licking" was changed to "Hopewell" before the 1909 map was made. --Susan Irish 12:38, 9 March 2012 (EST)
I wrote up a plan for defining and using place pages for named townships of Whatcom County where they exist on the Whatcom County place page. Does what I suggest look reasonable? --Pkeegstra 13:28, 9 March 2012 (EST)
I did five townships for now. My next ones will be Nooksack, Lawrence, and Rome. --Pkeegstra 16:31, 9 March 2012 (EST)

Roelf Pronk [20 March 2012]

Look what I found:

zou dit dezelfde kunnen zijn??--henk 07:18, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

United States Census, 1900 for Ralph Prunk

name:	Ralph Prunk
titles & terms:	
residence:	Larkin & Willmont Townships, Nobles, Minnesota
birth date:	Sep 1829
birthplace:	Holland
relationship to head of household:	Father
spouse's titles & terms:	
spouse's birthplace:	
father's titles & terms:	
father's birthplace:	Holland
mother's titles & terms:	
mother's birthplace:	Holland
race or color (expanded):	White
head-of-household name:	Claus Prunk
gender:	Male
marital status:	Widowed
years married:	
estimated marriage year:	
mother how many children:	
number living children:	
immigration year:	1896
enumeration district:	0218
page:	3
sheet letter:	A
family number:	39
reference number:	34
film number:	1240778
image number:	00207
 	Household	Gender	Age
child	Claus Prunk	M	
Fanney Prunk	F	
Ralph Prunk	M	
Ellie Prunk	F	
Louie Prunk	M	
 	 Ralph Prunk	M	
John Prunk	M

Thanks! Any idea whether Frouwina settled first in Minnesota before moving to Grand Rapids, Michigan? Any sign of a first marriage for her? Maybe that has something to do with her moving. BTW, John in the census [above] was born 1881, and is not this Jan Jacob. --Pkeegstra 09:30, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

her first marriage was to Geert van der Scheer (17 DEC 1889 Grand Rapids)--henk 09:38, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

BTW I will upload a gedcom with more details in about 1 hour ( I Hope)--henk 09:42, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

Geesien Jans Boer appeared to have gotten crosslinked with Geesien Eisses Boer, and now seems to be lost. Could you please re-upload her. BTW, I have a Pekelder married into my mother's Bouma family, so I will help you work on Jan Geerts Pekelder to see if he connects. --Pkeegstra 14:00, 19 March 2012 (EDT)
I put in a placeholder page for Geessien Jans Boer. Could you please check whether you had any additional information for her? --Pkeegstra 14:23, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

I've added more information on Geessien Jans Boer and I already added a page for Jan Pekelder

SSDI has a Ralph Pronk born 4 Nov 1895 died Dec 1978 in Iowa, card issued in Texas. Do you have info to confirm that that is this Ralph Pronk? --Pkeegstra 06:19, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

The Pekelder who married a Bouma is John Henry Pekelder Jr. His wife is living. I don't yet have his mother's maiden name; it looks like they just missed the cutoff date for the FamilySearch Michigan marriages archive. --Pkeegstra 06:52, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

Stremler in Whatcom County [27 March 2012]

Hi, I find a Fred Stremler b. 9 Mar 1876 Netherlands; don't know if he was brother to Lewis.--Susan Irish 22:20, 23 March 2012 (EDT)

OK, sounds like that would be Fedde, born 9 Mar 1876. Looks like there are 8 of them.

My other project for today is to see whether Alice Jager and Henrietta Jager are connected. --Pkeegstra 08:44, 24 March 2012 (EDT)

I don't think Alice and Henrietta Jager are related, but if you want I can find it out for you; I'm researching the Bruins Family and I also have some Jagers in my tree most of them from Winschoten--henk 08:26, 27 March 2012 (EDT)

I've come to a similar conclusion. But if you do find a connection, I'd appreciate hearing about it. I also intend to get back to the ancestry of Bessie Bruins, but if you get there first, that would also be appreciated. --Pkeegstra 09:39, 27 March 2012 (EDT)

FYI [26 March 2012]

Place:Drenthe, Ottawa, Michigan, United States Mvg, --Lidewij 17:25, 26 March 2012 (EDT)

Thanks! --Pkeegstra 17:28, 26 March 2012 (EDT)

Pauline Karsten [30 March 2012]

I think Pauline Karsten Bos has been working on genealogy too:

Author: Pauline Karsten Bos Title: Publication by Pauline Karsten Bos re Brief History of Marten Jans Schans family Publication: Published mid 1970s Repository: Media: Manuscript Note: photocopied mimeographed papers Note: Family records say March 21. The following record says DOB was March 21, 1889, not March 11, 1889 as Pauline Karsten Bos wrote -- Broderbund Family Archive #110, Vol. 1, Ed. 7, Social Security Death Index: U.S., Date of Import: Dec 4, 1999, Internal Ref. # Place of birth is from family records.

--henk 09:41, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Thanks! I've corresponded with Bergsma, he's my double cousin, but I'm not sure who would be the family keeper of Pauline Karsten Bos's documents. (I also wonder which Bos she married, since my Dad's great-aunt married a Bos. --Pkeegstra 09:57, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Noel Bergsma is a cousin???? hmmm interesting, I believe my Bergsma cousins are as well related to him and Bos My great uncle Taeke Beiboer married a Jenny Bos in Grand Rapids...... The world is getting smaller by the minute--henk 10:02, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

John Sidney Bos

The son of Alice Keegstra Bos and Ralph Bos was named John R. Bos. But I need to check whether he had a son John Sidney. John Sidney might be living. --Pkeegstra 17:40, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Alice Keegstra Bos (my Dad's great-aunt) is the aunt of John Sidney Bos. --Pkeegstra 10:39, 30 March 2012 (EDT)
OK, now we need a Cornelis or Kornelis Bos born Feb 1841 (as per 1900 census). He may have had a first wife before marrying Maria Van Doorne in 1873. As per 1900 census, his immigration year was 1870. --Pkeegstra 09:55, 30 March 2012 (EDT)
I found his death certificate. Date of birth is probably 1840, not 1841. Father was Jan Bos. Mother's name is hard to read. --Pkeegstra 10:06, 30 March 2012 (EDT)
AlleGroningers has a Kornelis Bos born 3 FEB 1840 in Slochteren. --Pkeegstra 10:44, , 30 March 2012 (EDT)

In 1870 ( 6 april) a Cornelius Bos Arrived from Holland on the ship "the Queen" together with het Hugo Bos, However his age is given as 21!--henk 13:32, 30 March 2012 (EDT)

Just late enough to miss the census. Someone misread a '3' as a '2', an easy enough mistake. --Pkeegstra 13:41, 30 March 2012 (EDT)

Cornelius Bos [30 March 2012]

I think this may be the Cornelius Bos you're looking for, but I'm not convinced (yet), however I don't think he was married before Maria van Doorne, There was a Cornelius Bos in Grand Haven married to Elizabeth Verwey (1867)but they had children after he married Maria and your Cornelius was not even migrated then Though I find it strange that he didn't name his children after his father or mother--henk 14:32, 30 March 2012 (EDT

well the death certificate tells it all: his mother's name Knelske Reints Vinkes, so his father is Jan Sikkes Bos --henk 15:31, 30 March 2012 (EDT)

Mol- Hilhorst [21 April 2012]

Thank you for noting that Luider Mol was the same person as Suijden Mol. I had not realized that. Am I correct in assuming that Henders Koorts from the marriage record of Evert Mol and Aaltjen Hilhorst is the same person as Henders Kooit from the marriage record of Harmen Mol and Gerritjen Hilhorst? --Pkeegstra 14:49, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

you are correct; 2 brothers married 2 sisters --henk 15:26, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

person talk pages versus user talk pages [12 May 2012]

I watch user pages of certain prominent users because there are sometimes messages of interest to me involving general issues or problems involving WeRelate. Lately you have had several "noisy" discussions on several user talk pages that seem to belong more on the talk pages of specific Person: pages than on a user page. If you could attempt to post your conversations on the Person pages rather than the User pages, it would help avoid a lot of noise on the user pages that most watchers of those user pages might not be interested in, plus put it on the talk page of a Person: where future readers are more likely to look for information on those people and therefore find it, rather than some user's archived messages. A single message on the user page saying you posted a question on the Person page would not be obnoxious if you then continued the discussion there? Thank you. --Jrich 00:07, 13 May 2012 (EDT)

Would it not have been polite to watch my talk page after having left comments on it, especially after having lectured me on talk page etiquette? --Pkeegstra 14:39, 10 June 2012 (EDT)

Schols family [21 May 2012]

Hi, I have found a Schols family that was not part of the Lynden community. It looks like 4 brothers and possibly a sister came to USA and Canada at various times.
Hendrik b. 7 Aug 1903 Abbenbroek
Isaak b. 15 Jan 1896 Zuidland
Jacobus b. abt. 1906 Abbenbroek
Arie Hendrik b. abt. 1894
Mynstje(?) (female) b. abt. 1898
There is an outside chance the father was named Jacobus. If this is a family you are interested in researching and can find the parents, I will add to the children's pages. --Susan Irish 02:24, 21 May 2012 (EDT)

I have relatives who are Schols, so I am very interested. I also have a fourth cousin in Canada who is related to me via my Schols line. --Pkeegstra 06:35, 21 May 2012 (EDT)
Hendrik and Jacobus need death dates before they can be entered. I will create the page for their parents Jacobus Schols and Jannetje van Buuren.
Children born after 1902 (all in Abbenbroek) are:
  • Hendrik, 1903
  • GeertruidaJohanna, 1905
  • Jacobus, 1906
  • Pieter Leendert, 1907

--Pkeegstra 07:21, 21 May 2012 (EDT)

Recent questionable edits [2 June 2012]

Paul, I'm getting a lot of emails for changes on Dutch pages I'm watching, and they mostly seem to be instances where you've removed information for a place name following the pipe -- information that many of us are at pains to include, to make the page more readable to users. Like reducing "Kingston, Ulster, New York, United States|Kingston, Ulster County, New York" to just "Kingston, Ulster, New York, United States". This serves no purpose. It's not a "correction". Please don't do it. --MikeTalk 11:20, 2 June 2012 (EDT)

OK, I believe there are camps at WeRelate on both sides of that, but as long as the pipe does not promote ambiguation, I can do that. Can we agree that there is such a thing as a bad pipe, which can always be deleted, as well as good pipes and neutral pipes?
BTW, I would hope that the count of changes from all-upcase to mixed-case surnames outnumbered the count of pipes I removed, since that was the actual motivating force for my digging into the New Amsterdam pages this time.... (Can we also agree that it is almost always a good thing to change an all upper-case surname to mixed case? The principal ambiguous case I'm aware of is Americanized Dutch names which may or may not be camelcased, e.g. VanderWoude. Are there cases like that from other nationalities I may not be aware of?)
Oh, and did you see the question I asked at Person talk:Roelof Chierstide (1)? If you do happen to have access to pertinent sources, another question I ran into was whether Willem Krom married Wyntje Roosa or Anna Roosa? And in either case what to do with the decade-posthumous son? --Pkeegstra 11:46, 2 June 2012 (EDT)
P.S. Would it not be polite to watch my talk page if you have left comments on it? Especially since you made an explicit choice to refer to me by a name other than the one by which I have chosen to make myself know here on WeRelate, and the name you have selected is one which is both wrong and offensive. --Pkeegstra 14:39, 10 June 2012 (EDT)

--Pkeegstra 14:24, 2 June 2012 (EDT)

Pkeegstra, I feel the contributions that you made today to the pages for early Netherlands immigrants were of great value. On a whole, these positive contributions far outweighed a few changes to piped places on pages that, for the most part, have not been touched since they were dumped here via GEDCOM years ago. --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:46, 2 June 2012 (EDT)

Thanks, Jennifer! Although the ones that have never been touched seem a lot easier to deal with than the ones that have already been through multiple merges.... --Pkeegstra 14:24, 2 June 2012 (EDT)

Conversation re: place page titles [10 June 2012]

Hi Pkeegstra, when you have a moment could you take a look at this conversation on my talk page? I would appreciate your input considering your work on Michigan place pages :) Thanks! --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:15, 10 June 2012 (EDT)

John Huizinga [24 June 2012]


I'm trying to locate John Huizinga[[3]] in or around Grand Rapids. He's a brother of my partners Grandmother and we think that he migrated around 1950 together with the Slendebroek family. Do you have any idea how I can trace him?--henk 16:09, 20 June 2012 (EDT)--

Death certificates are public documents in Michigan. Either of us could order that, but it would probably be easier for me because I have a USD checking account. That should give you his last residence address and marital status. Beyond that, I am afraid that John Huizinga is a fairly common name in Grand Rapids. With that in mind, the GR Public Library may have old phone books. --Pkeegstra 17:04, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

Actually, there are two possibilities; one can either order death certificates from the county or, for a slightly higher fee, from the state.

  • If you are certain of the year, but less certain of the county, order from the state, and that covers all the counties of Michigan.
  • If you are certain of the county, but less certain of the year, then order from the county, since they give you at least a plus or minus five years search window.
  • If you are certain of both the year and the county, order from the county since it's cheaper.

--Pkeegstra 19:37, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

at least I found him in the death index:

That's probably the first case then, since you know the day he died, but he may not have died in the indicated county. (I've had several cases like that, where the hospital or hospice was a different county than the county of residence.)

(And I guess I'm not a very good genealogist, because I don't know anything about how to track down Michigan wills or executors of estates, but I could ask my sister the Michigan lawyer. The executor of the estate may still be alive and contactable.)

--Pkeegstra 06:18, 21 June 2012 (EDT)

John's obituary is available through for a small fee. I'd be happy to order that if you'd like. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:30, 21 June 2012 (EDT)

I can do that. I'll probably find other people I can include in the same order. --Pkeegstra 06:49, 21 June 2012 (EDT)

You're to kind :-) It appears that his brother Gerrit Huizinga also died in Grand Rapids Wow my American family increases by the minute, I found a John Huizinga who could be the one who has at least 10 children and the Slendebroek/Huizinga family 12 children--henk 07:41, 21 June 2012 (EDT)

OK, I just mailed the order forms for the obituaries and the death certificates of Jan and of Gerrit. --Pkeegstra 12:39, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

Calvin College Presidents and Dorm Namesakes [23 June 2012]

As if it weren't obvious where my interests lie.

--Pkeegstra 08:57, 23 June 2012 (EDT)

E-mail [27 July 2012]

Hi Pkeegstra, I wanted to check with you to see if you received the email that I sent you earlier this week. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:32, 27 July 2012 (EDT)

I got it. Thanks! I was out of town at the beginning of the week. --Pkeegstra 09:03, 27 July 2012 (EDT)

Look at citation for ... [10 September 2012]

Maartje Pieters DeGroot - if needs to be corrected, let me know. I will go back and add other citations for Spoelhof then.

Deb Hall (nee Spoolhoff, in Wisconsin)--Hal2185 15:24, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

Hi Deb and Pkeegstra, I actually just edited this source (before I saw Deb's message here). I edited the birth date according to Maartje's birth/christening record in Tresoar. I also replaced the marriage source that was there with the "Doop-, Trouw- en Begraafboeken" (christening) source that related to this event. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:31, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
Thanks! FWIW, I'm related to the Spoelhofs descended from Rev. Charles.
P.S, If I understand correctly, since the whole family were born before 1850, it's OK for all of them to have the patronymic. Right? --Pkeegstra 15:55, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
To be honest, I had never heard of that "rule" before. I've always understood that if the person used their patronymic name on official documents, than that is how we can document their name. --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:20, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
Except given the way the geboorte record is set up, the patronymic is rarely applied there, so if the person emigrates before marrying or dying, there will be no record where we might expect a patronymic. So it does not seem unreasonable to have a fallback rule to catch that case. (An alternate fallback might be that the person was born before 1850 and a younger sibling of the same gender uses a patronymic.) --Pkeegstra 16:30, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

First Wife of Gerrard Staal? [6 December 2012]

The question which currently has me stumped is the identity of the wife of Gerrard Staal. --Pkeegstra 19:32, 23 November 2012 (EST)

We think we finally tracked this down. Gerrard Staal's first wife was Jantje van der Veen, the sister of his second wife. Jantje's first husband was Eisse Nanninga who was in America even though he does not appear in the Groningen emigration records. Many thanks to Henk and Jennifer for helping work this out. --Pkeegstra 16:14, 6 December 2012 (EST)

Western Reserve boundaries [20 January 2013]

Hi Pkeegstra,

My apologies for the delay getting back to you. Here is a link for a Western Reserve map with modern county boundaries included.

If you look at an Atlas for Ohio, the west border of the Western Reserve follows the western borders of Erie & Huron Counties, except for perhaps the small "finger" of the lake side of Erie (I did not see that on the older map. None of Ottawa Co. was included in the W.R. by the way.

The Southern border is where the partial counties apply. If you draw a straight line east to west by using the southern borders for Huron, Medina and Portage Counties all the way to Pennsylvania, the Western Reserve southern border results. Therefore, the top tier of Ashland Co townships is in the W.R., the bottom tier of Summit Co. townships is not in W.R., and the bottom tier of Mahoning Co. townships is also not in the W.R.

The Firelands section includes both Erie & Huron Counties, plus the far NW township in Ashland County. The old map of W.R. is featured on its Wikipedia page. Hope this is fairly clear. --Neal Gardner 16:08, 6 December 2012 (EST)

Thanks! That's very helpful. --Pkeegstra 16:10, 6 December 2012 (EST)

You're quite welcome ! That was a challenge to describe in words, takes me back to college English. If you need anything else, don't hesitate to ask.--Neal Gardner 16:18, 6 December 2012 (EST)

I enumerated the modern counties in and partially in the Western Reserve on the place page. Was there a numbering scheme for the Western Reserve townships like the well-known one for US Land Survey townships? --Pkeegstra 16:17, 20 January 2013 (EST)

St Andrew's Cemetery, Grand Rapids [19 December 2012]

Thanks for the info on the cemeteries in Grand Rapids. It will definitely be the Catholic one.

The McDermotts are part of a large (huge is a better description) collection of people from a small area of Ontario provided to WR by someone who left a whole lot of red-inked places in the neighbourhood. Just for fun I have been sorting them out. Our researcher only studied the Catholic part of the population. (I didn't know there were any Protestants in the area at all until I looked at the census!--Religion was always one of the questions on a Canadian census.)

Mary Cuddahy McDermott appears to have been born in Ireland in 1846 (both parents born Tipperary). She was third of seven children and the last three were definitely born in Mara, Ontario, but the original entry for her says born Ireland. No date for emigration, but it should be in the 1901 census for some of her siblings who stayed home. Looks like a just-post-famine migration. These census immigration dates are something our original researcher didn't look at and I haven't got around to it for this particular family group yet.

Censuses are my chief interest and I often find that an extended break of more that two years between birth dates in a string of children indicates the date of a migration.
--goldenoldie 02:38, 19 December 2012 (EST)

Thanks! These two Irish in Grand Rapids caught my attention because at some point I'll want to start work on my Irish uncle's line, and he's spent his whole life there. --Pkeegstra 06:32, 19 December 2012 (EST)

Quebec again [16 January 2013]

Would you please take a look at Person:Alice Forestal and her Quebec problem. Thanks.

--goldenoldie 11:41, 26 December 2012 (EST)

I assume you want it to say Montreal, Lower Canada. But the Montreal page references the 1900 Quebec. That calls for a place pipe. --Pkeegstra 11:55, 26 December 2012 (EST)
Yes, I do. But in Ontario/Canada West/Upper Canada I've got used to writing, for instance, "Orillia, Simcoe, Canada West, Canada" and the pipe is put in automatically.
That additional step required might be because of the accents.
There is an ambiguity with the burial place. "Notre Dame de Quebec" is the cathedral in Quebec City. The one in Montreal is just called "Notre Dame Basilica". Do we go with the one in Montreal? (I've defined both as cemeteries.)
--Pkeegstra 12:25, 26 December 2012 (EST)
I wondered about that. I don't know Montreal and Quebec like the back of my hand. Better go with the two places.
Another question. I think our search engine differentiates between Montreal (English spelling) and Montreal (with an acute accent as the French)? If so, how do we add an acute accent without something handy to cut-and-paste from? --goldenoldie 14:23, 26 December 2012 (EST)
I know how to do it on a Mac. I haven't figured out yet how to do it on Windows either. --Pkeegstra 16:48, 14 January 2013 (EST)
I use ALT-codes on Windows. For an é, I press and hold down the ALT key while typing in the numbers 0233 on the keypad. Here is a list of ALT-codes for other foreign language letters. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:34, 16 January 2013 (EST)
Thanks for the ALT-codes. They are now saved to all sorts of bookmark folders as well as Evernote. --goldenoldie 06:46, 16 January 2013 (EST)

Jacob Jans Kingma [14 January 2013]

Gosh, I remember working on the 2 Jan Jacobs Kingma pages. Definitely an unusual situation and a source for some initial confusion! --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:38, 14 January 2013 (EST)

Yeah, I was glad you had already sorted them out by the time I got here. I had noticed them before, but didn't think to add a link for them. So I resolved to add the link if I ever found them again, and was amused when I did find them again that they were my direct relatives. --Pkeegstra 16:43, 14 January 2013 (EST)

[29 jan 2013]

Can you give me some help with this one?

Place:Nieuw Amersfoort, Flatlands, Kings, New York, United StatesNieuw Amersfoort

Am I doing this the right way or do I have to edit Flatlands?--henk 10:57, 29 January 2013 (EST)

It depends on what you are trying to do. If you consider "Nieuw Amersfoort" to be the same place as "Flatlands", then you would want to edit the Flatlands page. If "Nieuw Amersfoort" was a place located within the place presently known as Flatlands (a strict subset), then the way you have set it up is fine.
If you are going by the the NL Wikipedia text (which I Google-translated), then yes, it sounds like "Nieuw Amersfoort" _is_ "Flatlands", so the first case would be the right way, and you should add the name and the text to the Flatlands page.. --Pkeegstra 11:36, 29 January 2013 (EST)
EN Wikipedia has an article somewhere with a list of all the notable settlements in Nieuw-Nederland. One of the things I have been meaning to do is to add that list to Nieuw-Nederland and use "also located in" to add all those settlements to that page. --Pkeegstra 11:41, 29 January 2013 (EST)


Settlement of Gravesend, Long Island

Category Dutch Reformed Church cemeteries [19 February 2013]

I have created a category for Category:Dutch Reformed Church cemeteries in order to collect cemeteries from the historical Dutch Reformed churches in North America and also the RCA and CRC churches.

I was wondering if it might make more sense to have the sort keys for these Category:Ethnic and religious cemeteries be Country, State/Province rather than cemetery name, since there are usually only a small number per state/province and cemeteries of the same category in very different places tend to have similar names.

--Pkeegstra 17:28, 11 February 2013 (EST)

I came accross this site [4] do you think it can be usefull? --henk 08:22, 19 February 2013 (EST)

Fascinating. Since it covers multiple churches maybe we can put the link on the category page.... --Pkeegstra 09:38, 19 February 2013 (EST)

Gravesend [18 February 2013]

Good evening

Would you please take a look at Place:Gravesend Reformed Church Cemetery, Brooklyn, Kings, New York, United States and see if I added this one right?

--henk 14:23, 18 February 2013 (EST)

Looks good! I added a couple categories.
To change the subject completely, I found a Huizenga in Grand Rapids and since I'm on vacation and away from some of my sources I was having a bit of trouble tracking down her parents. --Pkeegstra 18:36, 18 February 2013 (EST)

New Utrecht [19 February 2013]

Place:New Utrecht Reformed Dutch Church Cemetery, Brooklyn, Kings, New York, United States--henk 13:02, 19 February 2013 (EST)

Dutch Settlement Cemetery [22 February 2013]

and another one Place:Dutch Settlement Cemetery, Schoharie, New York, United States--henk 13:46, 19 February 2013 (EST)

Thanks! I added them both to the category. --Pkeegstra 14:44, 19 February 2013 (EST)

and a few more: :-)

Place:Rhinebeck Reformed Dutch Church Cemetery, Rhinebeck (town), Dutchess, New York, United States

Place:Prospect Cemetery, Jamaica, Queens, New York, United States

Place:Reformed Church on Staten Island Cemetery, Port Richmond, Richmond, New York, United States

Got them! Thanks! --Pkeegstra 15:52, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Alsace [10 June 2013]


My Alsace-Lorraine tips would be that being border land it has meant that France and Germany are provided as the country but many said they came from Alsace not either of the two countries that disputed the region.

Geneanet is used a lot by genealogists in the region. Once you can narrow down to what commune there are mostly easy and free to access registers and documents. Apparently due to the nature of small communities their was once a decree from a bishop of Alsace that all families had to maintain a family tree which had to be presented at time of marriage to avoid relatives who were to close, marrying.

By the way thanks for letting me know about how to fix the page I asked about.

Jeffrey--JeffreyRLehrer 14:17, 6 March 2013 (EST)

For the record, it turns out I was looking at the wrong family. I tracked down my girlfriend's actual line, and it has noone from Alsace. --Pkeegstra 17:23, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

Katie Jousma daughter of Jacob [21 May 2013]

Katie Jousma VanderLaan is my great grandmother. I am working on a geneology book for my father and would love any pictures of her branch of the family. Is there anyone who I can contact to see if any exist?

I also have the information for the childred of Brugt (Frank) and Katie VanderLaan if anyone is interested in it.--Dmv34l 22:33, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

Unfortunately, I'm the wrong person to ask for pictures. I don't even have pictures of my immediate ancestors. It's funny how that works; my Mom is a photographer, but she doesn't do people. If you aren't on Ancestry, I can check there for you.
More info about the children would be great. Death dates for anyone born after 1903 are especially appreciated, because once we have that we can put up a person page. --Pkeegstra 06:44, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
P.S. My Dad's great-uncle Nicholas Kamp was married to Katie's sister Hattie (Hendrikje).
I found a picture of Hattie (Hinke) Kamp Bosma and Johannes Bosma at Ancestry. It looks like that's the best I can do. (n.b. there are at least 3 Hattie Kamps of that era: Hinke Kamp Bosma, Harmke Kamp Keegstra Koeze, and your great-great-aunt Hendrikje Jousma Kamp.) --Pkeegstra 20:11, 28 March 2013 (EDT)

Thank you so much for the reply. Unfortunately my father passed away on March 30, so I have not had free time to spend working on this project in the last few weeks. I would love to see the pictures you were able to find. A direct relative or not the pictures are still cool. In the book I was making I ended up using a few pictures of relatives who we can't identify. Just too cool to leave out. --Dmv34l 19:59, 21 May 2013 (EDT)

Harper's [Harpers] Ferry [27 April 2013]

Thanks for the note on Harper's Ferry.

Harpers Ferry was first settled in 1732 by Peter Stephens, whose "squatter's rights" were bought in 1747 by Robert Harper, for whom the town was named. In about 1750 Harper was given a patent on 125 acres (0.5 km²) at the present location of the town. In 1761 Harper established a ferry across the Potomac River, making the town a starting point for settlers moving into the Shenandoah Valley and further west. In 1763 the Virginia General Assembly established the town of "Shenandoah Falls at Mr. Harper's Ferry." On 25 October 1783, Thomas Jefferson visited Harpers Ferry. He viewed "the passage of the Potomac though the Blue Ridge" from a rock which is now named for him. Jefferson called the site "perhaps one of the most stupendous scenes in nature." [5].

Since it was established by the 1750's, it was then in [then] Frederick County and later in Berkeley County, so I've updated the Harpers Ferry page to acknowledge that fact, so persons that had events in Harper's Ferry are shown in the correct county. If a person was born in "Harper's Ferry" in the 1700's was shown to be born in Jefferson County [a county that did not exist until 1801], it would be factually incorrect....

Have a great weekend,

Jim:)--Delijim 09:29, 27 April 2013 (EDT)

Thanks for the extra effort tracking the evolution of the counties containing Harpers Ferry. Whatever one's interpretation of the "1900 rule" might be (on the span of "factually incorrect" to "intentionally anachronistic"), that is definitely valuable information. --Pkeegstra 10:12, 27 April 2013 (EDT)

Hendrik de Cock [17 May 2013]

Hi, I saw you're watching the Hendrik de Cock page :-). Then this might interest you too!: Landverhuizers and meanwhile I keep busy with theGroninger emigranten--henk 09:05, 15 May 2013 (EDT)

Yes, thanks for putting him up! I know who he is, because my father is a minister in the CRC whose academic specialty is Church History. I'm a bit surprised none of de Cock's children joined the emigration.

Hendrick de Cock himself had nothing to do with the emigration, it was the idea of van Raalte. De Cock himself leaded the "Chistelijke Afgescheiden Kerk" in Groningen and Drenthe. In 1848 with the new constitition there was freedom of religion. His oldest son followed him [6]and became a professor. his other son became a lawyer and his daughters married businesman, Their life conditions weren't bad so they had no reason to go :-)--henk 09:28, 17 May 2013 (EDT)

BTW, I was confused and thought Albertus van Raalte needed to be added, too, but I found his page this morning, and I see Jennifer added him in 2011.
--Pkeegstra 09:21, 15 May 2013 (EDT)

Trout Run in Hardy County, Virginia [31 May 2013]

Hello, I got your message regarding Trout Run in Hardy County, Virginia. Trout Run, according to wikipedia "Trout Run rises between Devils Hole Mountain and Great North Mountain near the Virginia state line in the George Washington National Forest. The stream empties into the Cacapon River at Wardensville".

Wardensville is listed as a community along Trout Run, so they are not the same, since Trout Run is a waterway and Wardensville is a town that sits beside Trout Run.... Ideally, it would make sense to add "Waterway" to the list of "Places" on WeRelate to more accurately reflect Rivers and tributaries versus neighboring towns....

Link as follows: Trout Run wikipedia link

Hope that helps. Best regards, have a great week,

Jim:)--Delijim 18:54, 30 May 2013 (EDT)

Thanks! I can bring this to the Place Committee and the Oversight Committee.... WR does have a policy on oceans, but I'm not aware of any for rivers. For oceans and international waters, it is suggested to use At Sea as the place and write in the description field whatever is known beyond that concerning the ship or the location. --Pkeegstra 06:25, 31 May 2013 (EDT)

Old news on the Main Page [9 June 2013]

As an admin and member of the oversight committee, can I raise with you the continuing embarrassment of the Main Page "news" section that still refers to something that happened 10 months ago. As I've set out on my user page, this is something that editors have been raising for weeks now. I have personally approached three admins and got nowhere: the first, Jrm03063 referred it to the oversight committee; the second, oversight committee member JBS66, referred it to the social networking committee; the third, oversight & social networking committee member, Klaas, replied that he is on holiday for a month.

This is ridiculous. Six weeks ago it was pointed out that "something that tired sends the wrong message". Taking six weeks to respond is completely at odds with the point of a wiki!

It will take you less than a minute to fix this: simply remove the box entirely from the page, and then once someone has drafted some new text they can simply add it back in. Are you able to do this? AndrewRT 20:10, 8 June 2013 (EDT)

Multiple Geert Ritsemas [20 June 2013]

Don't forget that Ritse or Ritze is a patronym ;-) and there were a lot of Ritzes/Ritses in Groningen before 1800. The both in Wittewierum can be related. The distance between Westerlee and Wittewierum is to large (I think) --henk 07:33, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

OK. I see that the combination of Geert and Ritze is not particularly unusual. But I'm pretty sure that the two people below from Ten Boer have a common ancestor. There is a good chance that the common ancestor is named Godefrijdus (i.e. Fridus).

--Pkeegstra 19:49, 20 June 2013 (EDT)

Kingwood, Virginia [6 August 2013]

Howdy, got your message, the places are the same, so I've updated the existing page indicating that it was in Monongalia from 1776 to 1815, and deleted the newer page. Good catch!

Have a great week and best regards,

Jim:)--Delijim 17:26, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

Thanks! I recognized the name because there used to be an excursion train there, so I was surprised WR didn't already have a page for it. (Alas, I believe the tracks are long gone.) --Pkeegstra 17:41, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

I'm very envious! I wish I were closer to Virginia... :( With all of the Virginia work I've done over the past few years, I really need to schedule a trip in the near future...

Take care,


Brush Creek and Anthony Place Names [22 November 2013]

Hi Pkeegstra, got your message on the place names. They two Brush Creek's should likely be merged, likely with the "Brush Creek" spelling as the primary. The Anthony's should likely also be merged with the alternate spellings included so it will match future entries. If you can tell me how to merge them, I'll try to do this in the future. (I'm assuming that all Admins can do this, but I don't see it as an option when I am on a place page).

One note regarding place names, I've thought for several months that we should allow "Churches" as a Place type. It seems strange that "Cemeteries" are allowed, but "Churches" are not. Also, "Waterways" should be allowed as place types, since many early settlers referred to the areas that they lived in by the closest River, Stream, Run or Creek. Allowing "Waterways" as a place type would solve this dilemma.

Thanks much,

Jim:)--Delijim 18:13, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

There is no merge option for places, for admins or anyone else. To merge places one moves the desired content from the one to the other and then redirects to the place page to be retained, as explained here and elsewhere.
And what you propose for both churches and internal waterways is exactly what was discussed at the Oversight Committee, which decided to retain the status quo in both cases.
P.S. Could you please point me to a source for the "Brush Creek" spelling? Then I'll go ahead and cite that. My DeLorme Atlas and Wikipedia both use "Brushcreek".
--Pkeegstra 18:21, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

It appears the predominent spelling is "Brushcreek", but there are some Ancestry Trees, Rootsweb records and Message Board postings that have it as "Brush Creek", such as:


It seems contrary to conventional wisdom (to me) to spell it "Brushcreek" over "Brush Creek", since normally you'd see "Cedar Creek" over "Cedarcreek", or "Salt Creek" over "Saltcreek", etc., etc.

In fact, in Early Augusta County, I don't recall a single creek where "Creek" wasn't separate from the identifying portion, so this one is somewhat "counter-intuitive" versus most....

Best regards,


Transcriptions of both 1840 and 1900 census use "Brush Creek" but the actual 1900 image uses "Brushcreek". And I'm afraid we'll never know what logic if any was behind the spelling change. --Pkeegstra 00:36, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Albert Terhune (5) [19 December 2013]

Looking for assistance. Here's what I have:

1) Albert Terhune (5) and Albert Terhuyne (1) are the same person. The files should be merged, but I've hesitated doing so because of the details that follow.

2) The record shows Albert Terhune (5) married to Hendrickje Van Voorhees (1) born abt 1634 --> note that her name is spelled with a capital V in Van. This marriage is not correct. Hendrickje Van Voorhees (1)'s record is correct in its entirely except for her marriage to Albert5.

3) The record also shows Albert Terhuyne (1) married to Hendrickje van Voorhees (1) born abt 1660 --> note her name is spelled with a lower-case v in van. This marriage is correct. Hendrickje van Voorhees (1) "lower case" is a separate person from "upper case" Hendrickje1 - both with the same father, but different mothers. See:

Christoph, Florence A. Van Voorhees Family in America: The First Six Generations. (Baltimore, MD: Van Voorhees Association, 2000), pp. 2, 10, 11. "Hendrickje Stevense van Voorhees, born circa 1660, probably in Holland; married Albert Albertsz Terhuyne, son of Albert Terjuyne and Geertje (--?--), circa 1676; died circa 1693. She was the second daughter to be named Hendrickje. The 1677 list of members of the Flatlands Reformed church mentions Albert Albertse and wife Hendrickje Stevense the younger, thus distinguishing her from her older half sister."

How does/should one go about cleaning the record up? Having trouble getting my arms around it...--Frank 21:19, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

I'd manually edit the problematic family page by dropping V(1) and connecting v(1). Then both family pages would be correct and that one can be merged into Family:Albert Terhuyne and Hendrickje van Voorhees (1) cleanly. --Pkeegstra 11:28, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
P.S. I am extremely pleased that you have tracked down some real sources and are giving so many of the New Amsterdam families a good cleanup. My brother-in-law and my girlfriend both have New Amsterdam ancestry, but I could never do that much for cleanup because I had only internet sources.
I just did the merge, but Albert could use a good cleanup now. (Is the 1705 marriage disputed, that the range of possible death dates precedes that?)

Thanks! You made that change look easy. I'll take a shot at lightly cleaning up Albert's page. In my short time here, I've learned to tread lightly lest I step on someone's toes...--Frank 18:35, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Just took a shot at cleaning up Albert's page. Looks better to me now. Take a look as you've time and let me know... P.S. You were right about the marriage/death dates. They needed some work!--Frank 19:07, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Watercooler problem 4-5 January 2014 [5 January 2014]

This was the first message which when I linked to the Watercooler page I got the wide spread.

"WeRelate talk:Watercooler" has been changed by AndrewRT at 22:32, 4 January 2014. Edit summary: /* Werelate on the rise */ why?

View the changes:

Switching directly over to Watercooler now everything appears clean. But that is not to say it won't happen from another email message.

Thanks. --Goldenoldie 16:39, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

I didn't see anything which looks like it would cause long lines and confuse the page formatter in those changes. The revision immediately preceding the one you indicated did contain URLs, but they were protected with [] and not especially long. If it happens again, or you see the same thing on another page, please give us a shout and we'll have a look. --Pkeegstra 21:41, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Further to Discussion on Support Page: Places in Devon [14 January 2014]

I just made a new discovery while trying to sort out the birth location for someone who married into my family in Canada.

GENUKI's gazetteer. I use GENUKI as a reference a lot working from the county pages, but I had never discovered the nationwide gazetteer before. It holds co-ordinates and links back to the notes on the parish, even when the name of the place does not come up in the parish description. In Devon (although not in every county) each parish page contains a map locating it.

I tend to look upon GENUKI as a very old-fashioned website providing very old information. It depends on 19th century gazetteers (and in Yorkshire that means the 1820s before civil registration!). There was a nationwide reorganization of municipal boundaries in 1974. Wikipedia provides the geography after 1974. A Vision of Britain through Time deals with the inbetween to a degree, but could go into a lot more detail than it does. --Goldenoldie 11:15, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Talk Change, Why? [28 March 2014]

Why was this done?


"User talk:Rgbarnes" has been changed by Pkeegstra at 14:19, 21 January 2014. Edit summary: Farmington (Avon) [21 January 2014]

Ron--Rgbarnes 22:29, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Are you asking about the vehicle or the content? Talk pages are the vehicle for users to collaborate with other users here on WR. And part of that collaboration includes discussing how to fit new places into the WeRelate place page heierarchy. The WeRelate place page heierarchy is intended to be a comprehensive structure defining an unique page for each place within a single heierarchical framework, specifically the heierarchy which applied in 1900. So it is a priority with us to keep pages at the applicable level in the heierarchy and to recognize and redirect duplicate pages. So even if your area of expertise is not such that you can assist us in maintaining the place heierarchy, we appreciate your understanding if we find it necessary to rework your place contributions from time to time. --pkeegstra 21:09, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Visit to Holland [12 jun 2014]

Hello: Bill Collins here son of Patricia Collins (Spoolhoff) daughter of John spoolhoff of ladysmith WIsconsin. I will be visiting holland this June and would love to visit with any relatives. Please send me a message at William.k.Collins.Vic@ thanks.--William collins 01:51, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

That's good to hear, but I live close by Washington DC; I haven't lived in West Michigan for some 25 years. But if you have any people buried at Arlington, I could show you around there..... --Pkeegstra 02:01, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Most likely the Dutch name will be Spoelhoff or Spoelhof. woepwoep 07:44, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks but haven't looked to my relatives who are buried in Arlington. I know of two that survived Andersonville and moved to Ohio. Thanks and take care.--William collins 14:54, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Surviving Andersonville is pretty neat! Of the handful of my people who came over before 1860, I can't document any who served, but at least two did marry war widows. BTW, I get to central Ohio (Franklin County and Delaware County) a lot more often than West Michigan. I'd be happy to look something up for you if that would be handy. --pkeegstra 21:01, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

BTW, speaking of the Civil War, one of my brick walls is this couple Van Braak and Rotmans. He died with the Union Army in Tennessee, and my 4th great-uncle married his widow. I think they're from Gelderland, but unless they are indexed, there are a lot of gemeenten in Gelderland for an exhaustive search. --pkeegstra 00:30, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Names of the sources [9 June 2014]

Best, only the sites/place should be renamed to 1900. Sources not. For example, the marital status of a former municipality remains the civil status of the former municipality. The municipality is that particular period and not 1900. Names of the sources remain original. Groet, --Lidewij 19:44, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

OK, if that is the consensus preference, I'll be more than happy to do things that way in the future. Shall I convert the set of 4-tiered sources I created most recently, or will that just add more complication? --pkeegstra 00:23, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Uvilla duplicates [14 July 2014]

Howdy, I've combined Uvilla onto the Jefferson County, WV Page and deleted the other two.

Thanks, have a great week,

Jim:)--Delijim 12:41, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! That was my most optimistic outcome, that all 3 were the same place.... --pkeegstra 18:43, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Meindert Jans Bonnema, Lijsbeth Gerbens Dijkstra [18 November 2014]

Dear Pkeegstra,

My name is Jack Mason. I live in Philadelphia, Pa in the US with my wife Jennifer.

The reason for this message is that I was searching Google for information with regard to my wife Jennifer's distant relatives Meindert Jans Bonnema born August 2, 1780 in the Netherlands who died on October 29, 1858 in Arus and Lijsbeth Gerbens Dijkstra who was born on September 21, 1783 in the Netherlands and she died there on October 24, 1851 and noticed that you were looking at their names. We would appreciate if you could let us know if you are related to them in any way?

My wife's father was Richard Bonnema, who was born on September 28, 1923 in Clifton, Passaic, New Jersey in the US. Richard God bless him, recently passed away in 2013. His great grandfather was Gerben Meinderts Bonnema who was born in the Netherlands on August 15, 1805.

Thank you Pkeegstra for your time.


Jack Mason

email <elided> --Munich420 21:23, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Responded via email. My father's great-aunt married Karst Bergsma, whose great-aunt was Boukjen Jillerts Bergsma the daughter-in-law of Meindert Jans Bonnema and Lijsbeth Gerbens Dijkstra. --pkeegstra 11:43, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Gerrit DeWitt [10 January 2015]

Dear Pkeegstra,

I see you are watching the Gerrit DeWitt line on We Relate. My great grandmother, Kunje "Carrie" DeWitt, was his sister. I am looking for photos of Carrie and "earlier relative", such as Carrie and Gerritt's grandparents. I have 2 photos of the family that John, who I would think is "G. John=Gerritt John" is in.


I don't look at this page very much, so I may not get back to you right away….--Bookgirl2 16:49, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm afraid that's not one of my primary lines of interest. Gerrigje Schut is the sister of a direct ancestor of some friends of mine from my church, and Anna De Witt married my Veldman triple great-uncle. I'm afraid I don't have any pictures for the De Witts; I don't even have pictures of my direct Veldman line. --pkeegstra 17:22, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

keegstra [1 March 2015]

Hello P Keegstra, I am not good at navigating We Relate, but I do see that you relate to my Keegstra. My grandparents were Cornelius ( Neal ) Keegstra and Jeanette Dise. My mother was Ruth Mae Keegstra Boerema and her sister was Jean Connie Keegstra Deboer.--Nanaroo 16:37, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes. Welcome! My grandfather was also Neale Keegstra, but a different one. I remember seeing you here once before. At one point I had your mother confused with Ruth Keegstra Walton, but eventually I got them straightened out. Jean has always been sort of a celebrity for the family, since her name was in the sunday school hymnal, and now she's even in the Psalter Hymnal. --pkeegstra 16:50, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the death date for your grandfather. I think the 1979 death date is for my grandfather's cousin Neal the son of Rev. Henry, (born about 1906) but I'm having a bit of trouble finding a source for that right now. Once I do I'll make a page for him. --pkeegstra 12:09, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Oops, that Cornelius Keegstra died in 1938. The Western Michigan Genealogy Society knows of no Cornelius or Neil Keegstra dying in Western Michigan in 1979, only Donald Keegstra (n.b. not my Dad's first cousin). --pkeegstra 20:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

For the record, your ancestor is Jakob Kornelis Keegstra and my ancestor is his brother Rense Kornelis. You and my Dad are fourth cousins straight across. --pkeegstra 14:30, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Column religions on Landverhuizers [28 February 2015]

what do you think of these abbreviations for religions? Religions--henk 18:19, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

OK. Are there any "Waals Hervormde" among the Landverhuizers? Looks like there was such a church in Groningen City. (I guess they could be 'WH'.) --pkeegstra 20:50, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Rev. Evert Breen [19 March 2015]

Hi, I found his obit today and typed it up. If you would like to create a page for him I can add additional information about some of his children. The name I have for his wife may not be correct as I do not yet have her obit. --Susan Irish 04:58, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! There was already a well-developed page for his parents, so I added him. I can't look up ZoekAkten records such as birth records from Texel (prob. 5 Jan 1863) at home, so I'll add that when I get a chance. --pkeegstra 11:05, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Challenge [27 June 2015]

I have seen enough families with both Jan and Johannes that I can say that is not particularly uncommon. I have seen at least once a family with both Pier and Pieter. (On my person page I list a family with a Klaas and a Nicolaas.) I wonder if anyone knows of a family with both Paulus/Poulus and Pouwel. --pkeegstra 11:48, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Person:Pouwel van Dijk (1) ? :-) & 1 you added yourself :-): Person:Paul Kweekman (1)

Sorry for any confusion: The intent of my challenge was not to find a single person called both Pouwel and Poulus. What I was looking for a family with one sibling named Pouwel and the other Poulus. In fact it was because of the above Kweekman example I was asking the question. I've never seen one person (not an immigrant) named 'Jan' and 'Johannes' interchangeably, or one person named 'Pier' and 'Pieter' interchangeably. So my question is whether the difference between the two names Pouwel/Paulus was considered less significant than those other examples and thus a family would in fact not name children that way. --pkeegstra 20:02, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

P.S. The name Pouwel is unusual enough that when I see it in northern Groningen, I immediately wonder if that person is related to my ancestral Pouwel. --pkeegstra 20:06, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Being an non-Grunninger, i would decide that Poulus is the phonetically spelled Christian names for Paulus and that Pouwel is the phonetically spelled "roepnaam" for Paul. I find it hard to believe that one brother would be called Paulus and another brother Paul. Not while they are both alive at the same time. Hope this helps woepwoep 07:40, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Ron, yes, the 'o' variants may be Groningen-specific. And I would call the Paulus form Latinate, and the Pauwel form cognate with German and Slavic. And just like I would not have expected a family with both Klaas and Nicolaas, we'll never know if we don't look.... --pkeegstra 10:58, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
And while people are looking, here are a couple other combinations which would be interesting to document: 'Jacob' and 'Jacobus', or 'Catharina' and 'Trijntje'. --pkeegstra 21:23, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
For the former, see this family mentioned below. --pkeegstra 13:07, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

I have been rummaging through old Catholic church records lately, and many Christenings and marriages are recorded with the names Latinized, while, in this instance, deaths/burials are in English. For instance, Jacob is recorded as Jacobus; Hugh is Hugonis or Hugo; Denis is Dionysius; Mary Ellen is Maria Helena; Margaret is Margaritta; Thomas is Thomae; Joseph is Josephum; Michael is Michaelem; Bridget is Birgittae; William is Gulielmus. Because of the rules of Latin grammar, the endings of the names change depending on whether the person is a child or a parent! These people most definitely would not have used Latin versions of their names at all: the Latin was merely a peculiarity of church records. --Helen-HWMT 22:41, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm sure that was standard practice in the Catholic parts of the Netherlands, where the church records were indeed kept in Latin. In the Protestant parts of the Netherlands, there does seem to be a distinction between the conventional and the Latinate names, such as in this family where both Jakob and Jakobus live to adulthood. --pkeegstra 12:58, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Bentheim, March 2012 [25 March 2015]

Susan, thanks for the place pointer. The place is Bentheim, which is right across the border from Netherlands so I've seen other immigrants from there. BTW, there are two pages for Bentheim: One and Two. I think the one is modern, and the other as per the "1900 rule" but I'm not sure which is which. And Jennifer, thanks for the category. I wonder how long it will take for someone to ask for Austria? --Pkeegstra 09:44, 1 March 2012 (EST)

Two is the right 1 based on the "1900 rule", Hannover was part of Preußen in the period 1871-1918 (The German Reich) Nowadays Bentheim is a district in Lower Saxony (Niedersachsen)--henk 18:27, 25 March 2015 (UTC) Can you give me a hand with Merging both Bentheims?
OK, I moved all the subordinate places from 'one' to 'two' and redirected 'one' to 'two'. --pkeegstra 20:03, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you [28 March 2015]

Thank you Pkeegstra,

I have watched some of the videos, but there is a lot to learn, and only 7 days to complete a GEDCOM review -- I thought it was 14! I may well go about re-building the way you suggest, though there are over 150 deceased people on my tree. Your support is much appreciated.--Helen-HWMT 16:45, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

King and queen visiting G.R. [7 June 2015]

did you see ?--woepwoep 19:05, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! I saw the story. Some of my FB friends were there in Grand Rapids. I'm here in Maryland, but wasn't invited to any of the appearances here. --pkeegstra 01:07, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Kornelis van Zanten [14 July 2015]

The marriage record for Kornelis vanZanten and Freerkje Wieringa 14-05-1864 Uithuizen indicates his parents were Folgerts Klaas vanZanten and Trijntje Kornelis Gast. Are they the same as your vanZanten Gaste couple? This couple settle in Grand Haven MI.--Diane Hosler 19:10, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that's a match. If you look at the marriage record for the parents, it says "Vader ook K.J.Gast" (father also K.J. Gast) so that is a documented variant. BTW, I reorganized your AlleGroningers citation here into the conventional form used by many of the Netherlands and Netherlands-American users here at WR. Curiously, I was just looking at Wieringas from Uithuizen. I'll see if mine connect. --pkeegstra 20:24, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you - and hope I thanked you before this.--Diane Hosler 18:17, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Elizabeth/Elizabethtown [14 July 2015]

The history of Elizabeth/Elizabethtown (Essex) NJ is fairly well explained on the various pages by Wikipedia quotes. I have an ancestor, Jan Winans who was a founder of Elizabethtown, which started out as a "Tract" or "District", then as a township, borough. Finally in 1855, the township and borough were voted to unite into a city. And just to unsimplify things, "Elizabeth" the city became part of the newly created (1857)Union Co. So for 150+ years Elizabethtown had a rich history, populated by hundreds of my relatives. Elizabethtown is one of the reasons I hope that one day WR finds an easier way to express places in existence pre-1900. I don't have the answer; hopefully someone more tech-minded will have a fairly simple solution. Neal --SkippyG 16:38, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Place spinning [29 October 2015]


I've noticed the slowness of entering new places too, since I am currently adding information about Lincolnshire, England, and its component parts. My firewall is set to only accept updates once a week, so, I agree, that isn't the problem.

Late last week Dallan and I were having an email conversation about changes to the workings of the places database. This conversation ended on Sunday with him going off on a week's holiday. I guess we'll have to wait a few more days to see if he can improve the checking speed.

regards, --Goldenoldie 13:58, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

"1900 Rule" in Nederlands? [15 November 2015]

Is there a page in Nederlands describing the "1900 Rule"?

(For that matter, what is the best page in English describing the "1900 Rule"? The best page I found on place pages is this one, but it doesn't mention the "1900 Rule".)

--pkeegstra 11:26, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

perhaps Lidewij knows? she was the one telling me about the 1900 Rule.
thx, Ron woepwoep 13:57, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
I'll ask her once I find a good example of a page in English. --pkeegstra 11:26, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
This is the best I can find, but it's too specialized to be a general introduction. --pkeegstra 21:12, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
My town of birth Place:Mariënvelde, Ruurlo, Gelderland, Netherlands didn't exist in 1900. So what to do then?
Ron woepwoep 21:59, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
On this map you see in the right lower corner 'Plekkenpol' which is my family nickname ( a lot of Wopereises in the region, so the farm name was used to know which Wopereis was from where )
Ron, the fundamental part of the "1900 Rule" is that the place hierarchy should be set up as in 1900. So the pages for gemeente which switched province after 1900 should be named for the original province, and the new province should be "also located in". The lowest level of places has to have some element of flexibility. Otherwise you end up with absurd results like people born in a polder haing their birthplace listed as "At Sea". Noone wants that. --pkeegstra 12:54, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Recent suggestion: Remove red entries [14 November 2015]

I have received a standard notice of your setting up a suggestion "remove red entries", but I can't find it on the suggestion list or within the most recent suggestion. What happened? --Goldenoldie 19:04, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

It wasn't a suggestion. It was an edit I made to the list of suggestions. I removed 7 suggestions which were red because none of them had an associated suggestion page or any other context.
  • Place pages maps from Google|27 Dec 2012
  • Naming Conventions in the absence of a Surname|18 Feb 2013
  • Using this website to search for early records|26 Apr 2013
  • Displaying Japanese Names properly|5 Jan 2014
  • Where do i confirm my e-mail,unable to confirm where you told me to|12 Jan 2014
  • Page types|28 Mar 2014
--pkeegstra 20:29, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Keegstra [19 December 2015]


I see that you Have Jean Connie Keegstra Deboer and Ruth Mae Keegstra Boerema as your cousins. My mother was Ruth Keegstra and Jean Connie was my aunt. If you have an interest to email me, I am or Facebook.... Nancy Boerema Coan. I have not explored WeRelate that much, so not sure yet how to navigate and make use of this site.

Sincerely, Nancy--Nanaroo 22:26, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Keppel [21 February 2016]

Keppel was a gemeente up and until 1817 See here: so how do i register that on Thx, Ron

You can use a placepipe to alter the name of a recognized place and give it any text you would like. I assume you would like it to say Drempt, Keppel, Gelderland, Netherlands so write Drempt, Hummelo en Keppel, Gelderland, Netherlands|Drempt, Keppel, Gelderland, Netherlands. It looks like old Keppel is now Laag-Keppel, so either edit that page to say "also located in" Gelderland 1811-1818 or make a new "voormalige gemeente" page Keppel under Hummelo en Keppel. Check with Lidewij which of those two options she prefers. --pkeegstra 12:18, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Keimpe Jacobis x Dieucke Eelkes [21 mrt 2016]

Hi Pkeegstra,

I run into this marriage record at

Naam Bruidegom Keijmpe Jacobis
Woonplaats Bruidegom Stiens
Naam Bruid Dieucke Eelkes
Woonplaats Bruid Britsum
Gebeurtenis x
Trouwplaats Kornjum
Trouwdatum 17-05-1639

Are these persons perhaps related to the Jacob Keimpes in your family?

Guppie 12:15, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Good find. Thanks! I wouldn't be surprised if that were an ancestor. The problem is that Jacob Keimpes was doopsgezind, so I'm stuck at the level of proving the name of his father, because that can't be done from the (nonexistent) baptism register, it requires digging through tax rolls and other records, none of which are digitized. --pkeegstra 09:05, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

  • Some more research: there are more persons around with a combination of the names Hotse, Jacob, Keimpe. I am pretty sure that the Person:Jacob_Keimpes_(3), that i just added, is the same as your ancestor with that name. However, I opened a Talk-page and would like to leave a decision to merge or not to you. --Guppie 17:34, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
Have you had any luck finding children of the above-mentioned Keijmpe Jacobis and Dieucke Eelkes? --pkeegstra 10:47, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
No not yet. In later years I found at least 6 families with these names in Friesland (in Ameland, Harlingen, Munnekezijl, Drachten, Kollumerland and Menaldum/Stiens). It will need more investigation to further this puzzle. --Guppie 15:57, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Hommema families [11 April 2016]

This website confuses me: I was reading your question if we would be related (through the Hommemas), but cannot find that anymore. I used to follow the Hommemas at one stage and somewhere the name crosses one of my distant family members. We have a lot of other names in common though! Kind regards from--Beatrijs 11:06, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

I found it now on my talk page...

Person:Geeske Zwerver (1) [25 May 2016]

Person:Geeske Zwerver (1)

I moved "see family page" (= not my contribution) because I found the real sources. If you think that that was wrong I am happy to change that back to how it was before but then there are no "real" sources. Kind regards from Beatrijs--Beatrijs 13:48, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

OK. In that case let's drop the line completely. Thanks! --pkeegstra 10:21, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Possible relationships [9 July 2016]

Referring to "Rintje Harings and Pietje Johannes" they were put in the"free text" by me as being Possible parents to Benskje Wagenaar. The akte reads "parents unknown". The date of birth was possible 1762 and not 1760. The name was Bens and not Benskje. Since her brother was mentioned in the marriage certificate: Bruid: Benskje Rintjes wonende te Harlingen de bruid wordt vertegenwoordigd door haar broer Haring Rintjes, I only assumed the found parents being Rintje Harings and Pietje Johannes.--Beatrijs 01:30, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

OK, I added comments in the free text area of Rinskje's page where I tried to capture your reasoning. --pkeegstra 10:27, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
For research: do Jan Beerends Baantjer and Gerrit Hendriks Baantjer connect? --pkeegstra 11:18, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
It looks like the answer is no. I hit brick walls at Berend Lucas Baantjer and Hendrik Gerrits with no hint that the naming conventions of the two lines might converge. --pkeegstra 17:15, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

OC-Committee [21 July 2016]

Hi I am writing this to you and to BobC and cos1776. We appear to be the only active members of the OC-committee.

I have been trying to get my thoughts in order since we discussed possible reorganization of the Source box around 10th July. As I explained then, our household situation is not a smooth one. However, the work on the Source box has now moved out to the Watercooler without our really coming to a consensus. Have we reached any conclusions we can put to Dallan? From what he told me when he and I last discussed things, he should be freer of other commitments now than he was then.

Unfortunately, in the past 48 hours some section of my computer or my browser has denied me entry to our google groups OC-committee message board. The pinned tag I had leads to another organization completely. Can any of you help put me back into the right link?

Thanks. Pat --Goldenoldie 06:37, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

I just tried the link I had to the Google Group, and I can't get in either. It says the group does not exist. --pkeegstra 10:43, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Trijntje Thomas Ferwerda [14 August 2016]

Good afternoon. Unfortunately the marriages you indicated were not meant for this Trijntje Thomas Ferwerda, because she died with 5 years of age. Trijntje Ferwerda kind 24-07-1873 Baarderadeel Geboorteakte Akte 110 Trijntje Thomas Ferwerda overledene 25-08-1878 Baarderadeel Overlijdensakte Akte 102

Marriage 1 May 1902 Lowell, Kent, Michigan, United States religious - Rev. J. Van Houte to Jelle van der Woude Marriage 8 Jan 1940 Grand Rapids, Kent, Michigan, United States to Willem Borgman

Maybe they belong to another Trijntje Thomas Ferwerda? Regards from Beatrijs--Beatrijs 05:33, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Good find! I'll clean it up. Looks like it's this one Catharina Ferwerda, do you agree? I see Trijntje Thomas did have a namesake sister, but she's way too young. --pkeegstra 10:57, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
But now I'm curious what did become of first Trijntje's namesake sister. Did she emigrate? --pkeegstra 12:16, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

TODO: Family:Jochum Stienstra and Trijntje Andringa (1) [19 September 2016]

Lots of people connect to this family, but noone has gone thru systematically to give each of them a sourced birthdate. --pkeegstra 19:28, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

The Venema family could also use a good look to add sources and fully specified places for all the birth and death events. --pkeegstra 19:23, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

I have some left time on my hands and can help you finding some dates, sources, etc. Beatrijs--Beatrijs 02:25, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! ZoekAkten doesn't work on my regular computer, so if you could do Jan and Louisa's 1893 wedding in Den Haag, that would be appreciated. --pkeegstra 10:27, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
I see that for Den Haag the huwelijken only go up to 1882, but the huwelijksbijlagen are complete through 1898. --pkeegstra 23:46, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Found huwelijk in Den Haag for Jan Stienstra and Louisa Boekhout. Beatrijs

Riemke Wallinga is said to have passed away in 1963 in Hallum.

See Voornaam Achternaam Begraafplaats Geboortedatum Overlijdensdatum Foto ID Riemke Wallinga Hallum 02-11-1878 16-02-1963 718

Aan Stienstra is said to have passed away in 1964 in Bolsward. See Voornaam Achternaam Begraafplaats Geboortedatum Overlijdensdatum Foto ID Aan Jochum Stienstra Hallum 23-11-1879 25-06-1964 766

Their overlijdensakten should be public, but are not on AlleFriezen or ZoekAkten. Does anyone know of another source for very recently available overlijdensakten? Jan Stienstra is said to have passed away in 1967 in Hallum, See Jan Jochums Stienstra Hallum 03-01-1878 19-02-1967 718

Beatrijs 19.9.2016

so his overlijdensakte should become public next year. --pkeegstra 11:32, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps ask the site owner of ?
V-L Jan Jochums Stienstra, zoon van Jochum Jans Stienstra (IV-C) en Trijntje Sybrens Andringa, is geboren op donderdag 3 januari 1878 Hallum, is overleden op zondag 19 februari 1967 aldaar, is begraven rond vrijdag 24 februari 1967 aldaar.
Or try this person
He is related to this site
Cheers, Ron woepwoep 20:02, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

quality 3 [31 October 2016]

Good morning! I am just wondering why you delete "quality 3" in for instance overlijdens akte of Antje Minnolts Dijkstra. Quality 3 means above all that I have actually seen/read the akte, which is an important fact when recording data. Kind regards from Beatrijs--Beatrijs 22:16, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

I see that my edit deleted it, but the only thing I intentionally deleted in that edit was the slash after 'weduwe'. It looks like one can set the quality when one first specifies a source, but then if anyone edits the source at all the ability to select quality goes away and the quality field gets stripped out. I'm not sure if such a change in behavior was intentional or not. I'll mention this on the Watercooler. --pkeegstra 00:33, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
It looks like the fix was to remove the possibility of setting the quality field in all cases. Myself, I only note the case when a site (e.g. AlleFriezen or AlleGroningers) usually has images but for this specific record the image is missing as "[geen beeld]" at the end of the transcript. If you would prefer to record positive instances as well, you might put "[met beeld]" at the end of the transcript for cases where the image is there and you verified it. --pkeegstra 11:11, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Re quality 3

I just wonder WHY this has changed. 99% of my contributions are backed up by the original text, that means I have to change every time the text and insert "met beeld"? Please change it back to where it was before. Kind regards from Beatrijs--Beatrijs 23:43, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

I'll make sure your request gets noted. Also note that the way this is implemented, as long as noone edits the page your existing quality flag will be retained. --pkeegstra 09:20, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
Oh, and if 99% of your source entries are from sources with the original text/image, isn't it an option to say that that represents the default condition, and is understood to be true, and only the ones with no access to the original text need to be noted? --pkeegstra 09:28, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

re:quality 3

So, if default is text/image I write nothing, if there is no image I will write "geen beeld' under "note"

You agree with that? Do other watchers agree with that?

Regards from Beatrijs--Beatrijs 05:56, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Request for a response from the Overview Committee [30 October 2016]

Hope this Halloween weekend is treating you well! I have sent you several private emails and have received no response, so perhaps they are not reaching you. The Overview Committee needs an answer from you on whether or not you would like to continue to participate on this committee. We hope the answer is yes! Please respond by Monday, October 31st when we will be updating the lists of committee members for Dallan. Thank you, --cos1776 22:42, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

I saw your email and responded via email. Sorry for the delay. --pkeegstra 10:56, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

WeRelate:Image review [18 January 2017]

I would like to participate in this project--sstults 00:08, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

format date fields [6 August 2017]


I noticed you are opposed to automatic formatting of date fields. Can you please indicate what about it you are opposed to, so that we can understand the downside of this change? Thanks--DataAnalyst 18:57, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

I totally support the idea of automatic formatting of dates. I cannot support the semantic change which slid in along with the proposal as formulated which relaxed the longstanding understanding that the only month abbrevs supported by WR are 'Jan', 'Feb', ..., 'Dec' (in any of titlecase, uppercase, lowercase). --pkeegstra 01:39, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Want to add a country place page [10 August 2017]


I have been wondering how we can link Nouvelle France to Québec, Canada? There is an amazing number of "habitants" in our list of People and it is hard to smooth the ties between generations, particularly when the descendants know the towns and cities whose placenames have remained the same through the transition.

Thanks --Goldenoldie 09:23, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

It looks to me like the three districts of Canada, Nouvelle-France more or less map to the most populated parts of present Québec. So one of us would need to find documentation mapping the populated places (or perhaps anachronistically the historical counties) into those districts, and make those "also located in". I just created those districts as (yet another since not one-to-one with any entity already in our place hierarchy) Québec, Trois-Rivières, and Montréal. --pkeegstra 10:36, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Antje Pieters [19 August 2017]

"Person:Aaltje Ringnalda (6)" has been changed by Pkeegstra at 10:58, 18 August 2017. Edit summary: Propagate changes to Family:Foeke Ringnalda and Antje Keegstra (1) This is a minor edit.. F. Foeke Jans Ringnalda M. Antje Pieters Abt 1767 - 1837 m. 7 Dec 1777

Good evening Pkeegstra, just wanted to know if the date of marriage is correct. According to the given data she was only 10 years old when she married Foeke Jans

Kind regards--Beatrijs 11:48, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Aha! Thanks for catching that! The death record was mistranscribed. The transcription at AlleFriezen says 70 jaar oud but the image clearly says oud acht en zeventig jaren. That's enough of a difference to make the age at first marriage plausible. It was already my intent to look for the doopakte (as well as improve the transcript for the overlijdensakte) this morning, so maybe I will find that and confirm the birth year. --pkeegstra 12:58, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Glad that this has been sorted out, you did well finding all the data! Have a wonderful Sunday!

Thanks! --pkeegstra 14:50, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Sacketts Harbor, Sullivan, NY [20 December 2017]

Hi pkeegstra, I've discovered what appears to be an invalid place. Sacketts Harbor, Sullivan, New York, US. I've checked several Sullivan Co. maps, and 2 Sullivan Co. histories. No mention of a Sacketts Harbor. Somehow Getty appears to have confused Sackets Harbor, Jefferson Co., NY, USA with Sullivan Co. How do I proceed ? Neal--SkippyG 17:19, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

I don't see a Sacketts Harbor, Sullivan, New York, United States. Did someone already fix it? Or are you referring to Sacketts Harbor, Livingston, New York, United States in the Finger Lakes area of New York? Since that's quite a distance from the well-attested Sacketts Harbor on Lake Ontario, I don't think the explanation is simple confusion. --pkeegstra 12:09, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant Sacketts Harbor, Livingston, New York. Late night error. I find no map designating that place, or a mention in histories.--SkippyG 14:59, 22 November 2017 (UTC) Current Livingston County Towns; detailed maps [8]--SkippyG 17:00, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

I need to buy the DeLorme for New York State so I can investigate further. In the meantime, what if we call it a "historical settlement" and explain that it cannot be traced to any presently populated place. We do that for several locations in Kent and surrounding counties in Michigan, many of which were laid out by promoters but never achieved a critical mass of settlers. --pkeegstra 18:12, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, my laptop crashed, being fixed, using the local library once a week. until fixed. "Historical settlement" will have to do, I guess, until "DeLorme" is consulted. Again, no mentions in county histories for Livingston.--SkippyG 20:31, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Possible Connection to Veneman Family [25 January 2018]

Hi. My name is Bertram Sluys, and I've been researching my family tree for about 15 years. I saw that you have several members of the Veneman family in your tree or the tree of someone you've been researching for. My great-grandmother was Jennigje Veeneman who married Pieter Bosch, and whose parents were Jan Gerritsz Veeneman and Geertjen Hendrikus Ekkel.

I joined WeRelate today so that I could contact relatives who have accounts here. I've put everything I have on Wikitree. I glanced through several files at WeRelate and discovered I have a lot of people listed in Wikitree who don't appear yet in WeRelate, and in at least one case both parents and child have profiles but they aren't connected. Since I am still going through my genealogy at Wikitree, putting in brothers and sisters and finding other new information (including sources), I wouldn't have a lot of time to spend at WeRelate with this information. But I would be glad to let someone else fill it out or connect parents to children.


Bertram Sluys--Bertramsluys2 19:05, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. The reason my name is on that section of WeRelate is because at one point I was trying to determine if Rev. Donald Houseman was related to me. Since I found that he comes from a different part of Hannover than my Houseman line and so is unlikely to be related, investigating that line has a lower priority to me. But I would be glad to connect children/grandchildren to their parents/grandparents if you have links. That's always a priority of mine. --pkeegstra 18:09, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Ad Pijlman over

Geboren	   Gedoopt    Kind	          Vader	         Moeder
29-04-1756 02-05-1756 Jacob      Hendriks Hendrik Coops  Aaltjen Jans  IJsselham
09-11-1758 12-11-1758 Klaasjen   Hendriks Hendrik Coops  Aaltjen Jans  IJsselham ?? Twin? Groet

Many thanks for the pointer to the online doepboek. I would say that the above is a superior record for documenting the parents of Jacob Hendriks [Pijlman], and consequently Hendrik [Jacobs?] Koops is a better name for Hendrik Jacobs Pijlman and also Aaltjen Jans is a better name for Albertje Jans.
I see what you're asking. No, I don't think there was a second Jacob Hendriks born 1758; I think the 1758 was an error and the correct year for Jacob Hendriks was 1756.

Massachusetts "misspelling" as Alt place name [18 November 2018]

Hi, could you take a look at place page "Massachusetts, United States" and give me an opinion re: the Misspelling Alt names recently added ? My opinion, they add incorrect spellings that will not show in red text. Neal--SkippyG 19:12, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I took a month off to do group theory. My vote would be to leave misspellings red and do a better job encouraging people to recognize that red places indicate that correction is needed. --pkeegstra 13:00, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi. I'm all in favor of keeping Massachusetts "misspellings" in red, too. I'm a little hesitant to wipe out the misspellings on the Massachusetts place page all by myself, without some weight behind that action. Would a consensus of the Place Patrol members, and/or Admin be appropriate ? Slightly befuddled..Neal--SkippyG 16:11, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

G.h.vandoorn [8 feb 2019]

Beste Susan en Pkeegstra, G.h.vandoorn heeft bijna alle gegevens die hij in voerde verwijderd. Ook waar ik aan werkte maar niet volgde, omdat het geen directe familie was. Is het mogelijk dat dit terug wordt gezet?

Dear Susan en Pkeegstra, G.h.vandoorn has removed almost all the data he has imported. Also what I worked on but did not follow, because it was not a direct family. Is it possible that this is put back?

Kan ik helpen? / Can I help?

Groet, Lidewij 16:29, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Burial Records of Monumenta Cemetery, Lynden, WA [18 August 2019]


I am now finished creating cemetery cds of Whatcom Co. burials. Since I still have the burial records through 2006 plus other entries from a combination of obits and FAG entries for Monumenta on my computer I thought I would ask if it would be useful to you or other Dutch researchers to have access to this particular file. --Susan Irish 02:33, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Aaltje Aukes en Antje Cornelis [6 February 2020]

Good morning Pkeegstra

I have seen the overlijdensakte of Antje Cornelis, but I am not sure if she is the same person as Aaltje Aukes, Aaltje comes from Sorremorre and not from Drachten, or is that the same town? Also, I could not find a marriage between Antje Cornelis and Pieter Cornelis. We did not register the town Sorremorre, is there a reason for that? Can the town be registered? Hope you can share some light on this matter.. thanks --Beatrijs 23:06, 3 February 2020 (UTC) Also, there is a daughter called Aaltje, but not Antje.--Beatrijs 23:11, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

I agree. It looks like it's the same Pieter Cornelis, and all the children listed are from him, but only the ones 1793 and later are from Antje Cornelis. Over the weekend I'll see what more I can find to prove that. I will add Sorremorre too. According to the Aardrijkskundig Woordenboek, Sorremorre is a gehucht in Utingeradeel, which makes sense. --pkeegstra 11:40, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Pkeegstra! Regards --Beatrijs 15:37, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

"civic" [20 February 2020]

Hallo Pkeegstra, as I understand: Most of the Dutch marriages fall under the category "civil", therefore, I think that it is not necessary to write it down. Necessary probably are the religious marriages, and we can always indicate that with the comment "religious". This is just a suggestion.... Kind regards --Beatrijs 03:21, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Wopke Oenes Tolsma [5 April 2020]

Good morning! Hope you are well?

Following issue: Wopke Oenes Tolsma married Sijke Jans in 1779 = correct | Sijke Jans' parents are Jan Lubberts and Liesbeth Paulus, married 5.4.1733 Hijum| not Jan Roels Wijmenga.


Wopke Oenes Tolsma leeftijd 64 jaar, overleden op 06-07-1794|

Diversen: boer Religie: N.H.| Kind van: Oene Wopkes en Liesbeth Douwes| Gehuwd met: 1779 Sijke Jans.


Sijke Jans

Diversen: gedoopt in Hijum 6.1.1737; Religie: N.H.| Kind van: Jan Lubberts en Liesbeth Paulus| Gehuwd met: 1779 Wopke Oenes Tolsma| Jan Lubberts: gedoopt 7.9.1710 te Hijum.

How can we change this? Whole new pages? --Beatrijs 01:11, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

What we have is a disagreement. The identification of Sijke's parents as Jan Roels and Hinke Alles comes from user Rwijmenga and follows this GenealogieOnline tree:
After a quick look my first impression is to prefer that identification because the first daughter was named Hinke, and the daughter Lijsbert can be explained as Wopke's mother. (It's not immediately obvious with either set of parents who Froukje is named after.)
I'm working right now on a family for Jan Lubberts.
I have not forgotten your question about marking all post-1811 NL marriages as civil. I will at some point give my reasons for doing so.
--pkeegstra 10:03, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Sijke Jans Wijmenga [9 April 2020]

Sijke does not belong to the family Wymenga, see my former message.

Genoemd: Sijke Jans

Diversen: gedoopt in Hijum; Religie: N.H. Kind van: Jan Lubberts en Liesbeth Paulus Gehuwd met: 1779 Wopke Oenes Tolsma

Kind regards from --Beatrijs 18:53, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

I think she does. I am working to track down the family of "your" Sijke Jans to see if she did marry. (My first guess is that she did not survive to marriage age.) I found at least two other marriages that might be hers if she did survive. My strongest case is the naming of Hinke Wopkes Tolsma, which makes sense if Sjke Jans is Wijmenga, and not if she is "your" Sijke Jans. (What exactly is that source you are quoting?) --pkeegstra 19:03, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

I had written more, but that has disappeared. I will look for the page you want to see. The above text does say that she married in 1779 Wopke Oenes Tolsma.

This is the page of the grave stones:

Verzameling Hessel de Walle Bron: Inscripties en grafschriftenSoort registratie: Inscripties en grafschriften inschrijvingPlaats: JelsumSoort akte: Inscriptie Bijzonderheden: Ao 1794 den 6 july is overleden den eersaeme Wopke Oenes Tolsma in leeven huisman tot Jelsum heeft tot syn 2e of laatste huisvrouw gehadt Sike Jans oudt ruim 64 jaaren leit alhier begraven Bron: Grafschriften Leeuwarderadeel Object: grafsteen


Wopke Oenes Tolsma leeftijd 64 jaar, overleden op 06-07-1794

Diversen: boer Religie: N.H. Kind van: Oene Wopkes en Liesbeth Douwes Gehuwd met: 1779 Sijke Jans


Sijke Jans

Diversen: gedoopt in Hijum; Religie: N.H. Kind van: Jan Lubberts en Liesbeth Paulus Gehuwd met: 1779 Wopke Oenes Tolsma

Kind regards from --Beatrijs 19:29, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

OK, if you look at the inscription itself, it never identifies parents for Sijke Jans.
Ao 1794 den 6 july is overleden den eersaeme Wopke Oenes Tolsma in leeven huisman tot Jelsum heeft tot syn 2e of laatste huisvrouw gehadt Sike Jans oudt ruim 64 jaaren leit alhier begraven
The parents of Sijke Jans were added to the gravestone collection, presumably by this Hessel de Walle, and they are his opinion, perhaps influenced by the fact that he was working before the internet and did not have access to every Friesland churchbook. Since his opinion conflicts with the opinion of Joke Koster the compiler of Stamboom Griffioen Jellema Friese Adel we need to study the authoritative sources to find out which is right. And I just noticed another piece of evidence. (For conciseness let's anachronistically call the other Sijke Jans "Meiboom" like her brother.)
The 1807 overlijdensakte for Sijke Jans the wife of Wopke Oenes gives her age at death as 59, which matches Wijmenga (1748) and not Meiboom (1737).
The naming of Hinke Wopkes Tolsma makes sense if Sjke Jans is Wijmenga, and not if she is Meiboom.
Does this make sense? --pkeegstra 19:57, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Surely, that makes sense Pkeegstra! I took the wording of Hessel de Walle as correct information, because he writes: "genoemd" and thus far most of his information about other inscriptions have been correct, because I looked them up. I was a bit puzzled about the dates of death of Sijke Jans, but indeed that fits the version of Wymenga. Thanks for clearing that up! Hessel de Walle should be informed about not taking his own initiatives as true statements. Except mentioning the wrong Sijke Jans, all the rest about Wopke Oenes was correct, as far as I can read. Kind regards!--Beatrijs 02:17, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

It may be too late to get a message to Hessel de Walle himself; OEPS!! like I said, I'm guessing he worked before the Internet. But there is a feedback link on that page (the icon with the envelope at the bottom of the right sidebar), and other WeRelate associates of mine have worked with me in the past to report transcription and gender errors and those errors have been corrected. Would you be willing to report this? I could do so as well, but I could only do so in English.
--pkeegstra 10:59, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

It may be too late to get a message to Hessel de Walle himself; OEPS!! Thanks for pointing this out!! Today corrected the text of Sijke Jans. --Beatrijs 15:21, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

volume/pages [18 April 2020]

good morning PKeegstra,

unfortunately no blad/akte numbers are visible, instead a "comma" has been placed.

All akte and blad numbers have disappeared. Can they be traced? Hope you can help, kind regards from --Beatrijs 17:02, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

This is due to a code change made by Dallan, and has been discussed on the Support Page. Dallan fixed the fix as of today so the missing components (which were always there if the page was opened for edit) are visible again. (The insertion of a newline in the citation line still seems to be part of the implementation.) --pkeegstra 21:41, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
BTW, I was thinking maybe the la Fleur line (a family from my church) could be traced back to France like the Pilon line, but it looks like the la Fleur line documentation runs out in the first half of the 18th Century. (I'm looking for documentation to confirm a Stamboom which names Daniël's mother as Tjetske Jans.) --pkeegstra 21:50, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Today's Mystery: Are the Two of Lijsbeth Romkes a Match? [7 February 2021]

There are two pages for Lijsbeth Romkes: here with her baptism and here with her marriage. The dates make sense, and the family does have connections in both Tietjerk and Leewarden. Can we convince ourselves that these two are a match? (Incidentally, the Lijsbeth Romkes at the first link has unsourced trees online which connect her to Grutte Pier.) --pkeegstra 23:16, 7 February 2021 (UTC)