User talk:Mksmith


Welcome [5 June 2011]

Welcome to WeRelate, your virtual genealogical community. We're glad you have joined us. At WeRelate you can easily create ancestor web pages, connect with cousins and other genealogists, and find new information. To get started:

  1. Take the WeRelate tour to see what you can do.
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If you need any help, I will be glad to answer your questions. Just click on my signature link below and then click on the “Leave a message” link under my name in the upper left corner of my profile page. Thanks for participating and see you around! --DFree 15:34, 3 April 2009 (EDT)

Michael, I did get both of your messages from Sunday, but was hoping to hear from you yesterday or today, with a phone number and address. I would like to go through my records to see what I have and have not, but for some reason, I keep getting bumped out of the website. I have used this one but couldn't find as much so maybe I am just not too great at using it yet. I couldn't find any records I hadn't already found on, although I did read your lengthy notes about William Smith. I still would like to know who A.D. is??? I have no such person in my records. William and Caroline's children were Mary, Edward and Rebecca, and I know of no other from the census records that I have and my cousin's personal research. So who is A.D.? And I still am not sure how you are related to William Smith? Who are your parents? As I told you, I am Emma and Philip Cory's great granddaughter through their daughter, Inez Irene Cory Stewart Smith whom you do not have listed. I also wanted to know if you wanted my mom's cousin, Jean Cory Allen, the daughter of Victor, to contact you. She is also in Texas and taught genealogy for 35 years so she is a professional and gave me many records and pictures. I am the one, however, who has the original tintypes given to me many years ago by my grandma Haire (Cory). I would rather talk by phone than by email as I find it very impersonal so let me know if we can do that. I am happy to give you my number or will call you. You know my email address.... Yours, Leslie Mills--Ljmills 16:42, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

Nice having you here [8 April 2009]


I'm so glad that you're becoming active on WeRelate. I love the librarian mind. A recent flip comment I made about newbies on the Source Page Titles discussion may require a bit of explanation.

I first joined WeRelate in mid 2007. I hung around for a short while, then left a bit disgruntled that WeRelate didn't have what I needed. I left my two GEDCOMs/trees on the site though. In late 2008, I started receiving notifications that my pages were being edited and merged, so I returned to see what was going on. I was thrilled to see the effort to merge disparate trees into one, and I decided to renew my involvement with the site.

In the meantime, however, many policy decisions had been made and I wasn't involved in them. Like you, I had (still have) strong opinions about how to do certain things, and some of the decisions made drove me a bit batty. If you poke around enough, you'll find old messages from me saying "um, WHY are you doing it THIS way??" I realized I was kind of a nuisance newbie.

Many months later, you come along and I recognize myself in you. As I've said elsewhere, I believe I was a librarian in a former life. ;-) I feel a great deal of resonance with most things you post. And I also know what you're up against having gone through it myself. That's what the "don't you just love newbies" comment was about.

So welcome, have fun, be prepared for some pushback, and don't let it get it to you or stop you from sharing your thoughts.



jillaine 09:37, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

Hatfield's of Wayne County, Kentucky [8 April 2009]

Hello Michael,

It is good to have you involved in Werelate.

Good Luck in your research on the Hatfield's of Wayne County, Kentucky.

I probably have already created a Hatfield page, though not one you want to use. It is too late for your purposes. James Hatfield 1840-1913 married one of the Sumpter daughters. It is a long story, but I have to recreate my GEDCOM from scratch, computer issues, etc. My GEDCOM file is not up to my usual standards so it is poorly sourced for now.

I am slowly researching the Sumpter's of Wayne county, Kentucky.

Debbie Freeman --DFree 13:20, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

Book Sources [14 April 2009]

Hello, I noticed that you created a couple of book source pages that duplicate pages that already exist here. I'm wondering if you can help me determine if they are, indeed duplicates. If they are, I can work on combining them. Thank you by the way - you did a very nice job titling your pages (hmmm, the librarian in you?). One additional note, though it doesn't really say it on the source pages, the publication place and date ideally should be the original place and date. All reprints that do not significantly differ would be contained within the same page. It has been broached to Dallan that it would be beneficial to have additional fields in order to list additional reprints, etc.

I will wait on your comments before I proceed with combining these. Thank you!--Jennifer (JBS66) 09:11, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

Dubois County Census [19 April 2009]

Hello, I just wanted to make sure with you before I renamed these...

Source:United States, Illinois, Dubois. 1880 U.S. Census Population Schedule and Source:United States, Illinois, Dubois. 1930 U.S. Census Population Schedule should both be renamed to United States, Indiana, Dubois... correct?--Jennifer (JBS66) 19:54, 19 April 2009 (EDT)

Yes, done it. I can't delete the erroneous versions redirected from, however. --Mike
No problem, I can delete those for you. Thanks for renaming these!--Jennifer (JBS66) 21:15, 19 April 2009 (EDT)

Indiana census source [29 April 2009]

Hello, I was going through and adding categories to the new census pages, when I came across this one: Source:United States, Indiana, Perry. 1900 U.S. Census Population Schedule. Did you mean, by any chance, for this to be titled Indiana, Parke, instead of Indiana, Perry? btw, I've got a Word document that has all of the text that I've been adding into census sources and their categories. If you want, I can e-mail it to you (no problem if you don't!)--Jennifer (JBS66) 09:04, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, I think that was a typo. Judy (my wife) was about to upload a GEDCOM that required a bunch of Parke County censuses and I volunteered to create them. Once I figured out the pattern for census page titles, I began keeping a list of them in TextPad, which makes it easy to copy/paste them into new source citations. I've been trying to remember to add the {{18xxCensus}} template to them as well (though I missed a couple of the first Parke ones I did), but I haven't added categories. You know, since the census page titles do all follow a pattern, there ought to be a way for a 'bot to mass-create them for all counties for all states, all at one whack. . . . --Mike (mksmith) 15:49, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
This source is all set now - I renamed it and deleted the redirect page. No problem if you forget the templates, they are quick for me to add. Just nice to have more census pages being created. I do agree, there should be some way to automate this!--Jennifer (JBS66) 16:11, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

Gedcom export [1 June 2009]

Hi Michael,

I was not one of the users that approved the unsourced gedcoms and/or gedcoms with no dates; I conceded. I agreed not to discuss this again on WeRelate; some users are very defensive regarding discussion of such gedcoms, even if you tell them that their pages are not junk. Allowing the gedcom export for everyone should not increase the unsourced gedcoms; they are already available and accessed by the users who downloaded them on WeRelate. --Beth 23:12, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

William Smith [23 June 2009]

Michael, I have left you several emails but have not heard back. I would like to talk to you by phone or at least hear back from you by email. You may be busy, and I understand, but please get back to me. I am the one with the original tintypes of William Smith, Caroline Rowles, Mary Smith, Edward Smith and Rebecca Smith. I am going to be running errands this morning unfortunately, so please get back to me sometime today or this evening. I am in California, 2 hours earlier. Yours, Leslie Mills--Ljmills 12:07, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

SWVP Boundary page [4 July 2009]

Mike, Per your suggestion I've added a link on the main SWVP page to the project boundary description. See Southwest Virginia Project Q 08:41, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

Yes, I discovered that last night. It's always useful to define your terms right up front, and I think this will help. --Mike (mksmith) 11:10, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

Glad to see someone wandering around the Medieval Space... [20 September 2018]

Glad to see someone else wandering around out here.... !!! --Jrm03063 21:50, 18 July 2009 (EDT)

Oh, I've been interested in the complexities of peerage genealogy for a long time. You may have come across [1] I did, and have been very slowly updating. --Mike (mksmith) 09:01, 19 July 2009 (EDT)

Don't understand why my great grandfather's name was changed from John Murray to John J Murray? [19 July 2009]

--Joana1493 12:42, 19 July 2009 (EDT)

Joana, we're merging duplicated uploads. The two files on "John Murray" had the same dates, the same family, etc. Obviously the same person. One uploaded file added a middle initial to his name. The method is to allow what appears to be expanded information from one file, rather than deleting it from the other. You can always delete later what turns out to be incorrect -- which is what you should do now if you're sure his middle initial was not "J". --Mike (mksmith) 12:50, 19 July 2009 (EDT)

speedy delete [19 July 2009]

Hi Mike,

Some of the pages marked for speedy delete either linked to filled in pages or contained some info on wives with unknown names. I removed them from the speedy delete category. I think we need to let people have place holders at their end of lines where they can keep what little info they have.  :)

Thanks, --sq 20:55, 19 July 2009 (EDT)

Joseph Sewell/Nancy Thompkins [29 July 2009]

Are we related? Their daughter, Lucinda, is my 3rd great-grandmother. I am related by blood to most from Breathitt and Wolfe Co., KY and the rest by marriage!--Taylorvences 19:49, 28 July 2009 (EDT)

No, I kind of doubt we are. I have quite a few people from Kentucky, but a different area. And no Sewells or Thompkinses that I know about. However, I've been merging duplicates today, mostly in the "S" section, and I expect that's how we crossed paths. --Mike (mksmith) 20:06, 28 July 2009 (EDT)

thank you [7 September 2009]

Hello Mike,

thank you very much for the feedback. Your idea about breaking up the book is excellent. Brenda pointed me to the discussion about transcripts, so I think I am getting the idea of what I can do. As far as all the talk pages, discussions, watercooler/portals... I think the problem for new people like me, is that when you look at all the possible places to post, it looks very official, like the people are discussing things that only the owners or creators of the site would be interested in. Of course, once you realize this is not so, it makes more sense. thanks again : ) Amelia (88buckaroo)--88buckaroo 21:40, 4 September 2009 (EDT)

You're quite welcome. Judy and I have just spent the week at FGS in Little Rock, and we helped cover the WeRelate booth so Dallan could get lunch and so on. The question I was asked the most was some variation of "But who makes the decisions?" The answer, most of the time, when it comes to policy, is "We all do." The site is still in beta and one of the key fixes still to be done (before New Year's) is simplifying the user interface -- making it more logical and self-evident. When that's been done, I think it will be a lot easier to figure out where to go to ask what and where to post comments on which topics. --Mike (mksmith) 19:43, 6 September 2009 (EDT)

conferences [7 September 2009]

Hello Mike,

Amelia here (88buckaroo, not the other one : ) I saw your recent post on the watercooler about being at FGS. Is there usually someone from WeRelate at the national conventions? The reason I ask is that I am planning on attending the NGS in Salt Lake next spring. It would be wonderful to learn more about WeRelate there in person. have fun : ) Amelia J.--88buckaroo 21:04, 6 September 2009 (EDT)

Well, this is (I'm pretty sure) the first national conference Dallan took WeRelate to. I believe he's planning on being a presence at NGS since he has family in Utah. (He's in Minnesota.) Judy and I had intended for some time to be at FGS because it was so close to Louisiana. (We don't fly if we can help it.) FGS next year is in Knoxville, and we'll probably be there -- combining it with some vacation time in the Smokies. If Dallan can't make that, we might manage a booth for the site, though. And Amy Crow (User:ajcrow) was a speaker at FGS, so she was there as well. Volunteers for something like WeRelate tend to "volunteer" whenever someone asks a question about it, so anyone who happens to attend a conference is likely to drift over and help out at the booth! --Mike (mksmith) 07:26, 7 September 2009 (EDT)

Hey Mike,

good to know... I'm excited about Salt Lake. That will only be my second national conference, the first being in Fort Wayne. It's a lot of money to spend, so it has to be in a location that is worth going to. I'm still figuring out this conversation thing... I have been responding to peoples pages instead of replying where the message was... oops. I'll get the hang of this.. : ) have fun, Amelia J.--88buckaroo 10:52, 7 September 2009 (EDT)

MySource vs Source [10 September 2009]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for cleaning up around here. I'm hoping to get a clarification, you recently changed the source for the "Archives of Dermatology and Syphilology" from "Periodical" to "MySource". My understanding is MySource is for personal sources like birth certificates, family bibles, etc. - actual verifiable documents, but specific to a family or person. But a scholarly journal from the American Medical Association doesn't seem to fall into that category at all. For my personal edification, can you let me know the reason for the change?

Cheers, Bart--Bartacus 16:07, 10 September 2009 (EDT)

Hi, Bart---
The thing is, the Archives is not a general "genealogical" source, which is what WeRelate is concentrating on for the ready-made catalog of sources. It's possible for virtually any published serial -- from TV Guide to Gourmet -- to have information in it about someone you're interested in. But it's also extremely unlikely that anyone else would ever cite it except you. Therefore, under the guidelines we were given for the Source cleanup project, it was marked "Should be a MySource." My own background is pretty academic when it comes to sources and citations, and I don't necessarily agree with some of the decisions that have been made (some of them seem a bit cavalier), . . . but consensus is the name of the game on a wiki, so I went along with this one. Keep in mind that you can always convert it (or re-convert it) into a full-fledged Source -- the catalog is not intended to be complete, it's merely intended to include most of the sources most people will want to cite. But you might want to wait until the Source cleanup is completed and the dust settles. --Mike (mksmith) 18:36, 10 September 2009 (EDT)

Thanks for the clarification - that makes sense.--Bartacus 20:30, 10 September 2009 (EDT)

Use of source materal for Edgar Irish page [11 September 2009]

Hello Mike,

I appreciate your comment about sources Person:Edgar Irish (1). I have now listed some of the source material I have at home. I welcome you suggestions on how to improve the the page if you would care to share them on my talk page. --Susan Irish 16:09, 11 September 2009 (EDT)

Family:Jenkin Kemeys and Crisli Morgan (1) [24 September 2009]

Re: Family:Jenkin Kemeys and Crisli Morgan (1), the history indicates you added a "nomerge" instruction on it. From what I can see, these two families ARE the same. Can you please advise? Thanks! Still merging, jillaine 16:18, 24 September 2009 (EDT)

Since that was two months ago (and before the Source dup project came along), I don't remember it at all. I assume that if I marked it "Not a match" when I compared them, I must have had a reason. But I don't know what the reason was any longer. (I don't generally expect much from claims to non-royal lineages from the 14th century, frankly.) Take another look at them, and if they do look identical, go ahead and merge them. --Mike (mksmith) 16:34, 24 September 2009 (EDT)

Greene County, Indiana [31 December 2009]

Hi Mike,

I don't have any people in Greene County (that I know of <g>). I was just going through a few pages as I was working on my 1st Ohio Heavy Artillery project and saw an opportunity to add a bit more info. So far, the only Hoosier ancestor I have was in Jay County (after having lived in Perry County, Ohio). -- Amy 10:22, 31 December 2009 (EST)

Remeschatis [28 January 2010]

Thanks for your ideas on Remeschatis, Mike (at [2]. As far as I know, the 1800s records for my immigrant ancestor while he was in Germany (and a sailor) indicate the family was Lutheran, at least at that time. My grandfather always said his family was from Alsace Lorraine, so for some time we speculated somehow the name was an amalgam of French and German names. But it turns out his maternal lineage (Waeldin, Sevin, Albrecht) or his father's maternal lineage (Beilstein) is more likely to be the Alsace Lorraine connection (I can't remember right now where I found which name...).

Anyway, I should probably start a formal one surname study, before all the Remeschatis' disappear... there are not many left! The article that Bob noted from U.S. News is about my aunt (my mother's brother's wife). My uncle had two daughters, and it doesn't appear that either will have children with a Remeschatis surname, so our particular line is about to disappear. Perhaps I should encourage my uncle to do DNA testing, at least as a glimpse of the record of the roots of the surname...

As I said, the earliest Remeschatus I found was Johan, who was born in Rostock in 1792. He's listed in the 1819 Mecklenburg-Schwerin Census in Rostock. His occupation is "hautboist" (oboeist, probably the best modern equivalent?). I've put what information I have (and I'll include these notes from the Watercooler page) at Surname:Remeschatis.

Thanks again... I always learn a great deal from you!--Brenda (kennebec1) 11:23, 28 January 2010 (EST)

Question about First Family process [16 March 2010]

Mike - My mom is all excited about the First Families of Louisiana program and would like me to get designation for as many of her ancestors as possible. So... I'm hoping you can help point me in the right direction. I'm not even sure where to start, how to decide which ancestor to start with, what to expect, etc. Any suggestions from you would be GREATLY appreciated. My email address is if you want to take it offline. Thanks in advance! Annette--Aberksan 14:29, 16 March 2010 (EDT)

Henry Stout [28 April 2010]

Hi, I'm a new member on WeRelate. I've been researching since 1983, but have just begun the task of entering my data on the internet. One of my lines, John Richey intermarried with two of Henry Stout's children (my descendant was Andrew Jackson Richey, who married Sarah Truitt), Elizabeth Jane Stout and Wm B Stout. I am a member of the "Daughter's of the Republic of Texas", see my user page, now living in Tennessee. John Richey was in Red River in 1839 and promptly died in 1840, family lore says of pneumonia caught on the move to Texas from Alabama. I have a lot of data to enter and I am just beginning.. No LA links. I should have some information on the Stout descendants here in Texas, I don't know if you're interested or not. Pam Pollard.--Txbluebell6 12:15, 28 April 2010 (EDT)

Henry Stout [3 May 2010]

Hello, my name is Pam Pollard. Two of my ancestor's , John Richey's, children, Elvira Richey and John Stuart Richey married two of Henry's children. There is quite a bit of information of Henry in Gerald Post's book, Alive and Good to Know, as well as documents of the Richey family. I wanted to check with you before I begin to link up my family with your data. Some of the Gerald Post data is referencing the Northern Standard at Clarksville and I don't know if it is microfilmed or not. His research was done in the 1950's. My concern here is data prior to 1860.

I also have a picture that is supposed to be of Henry. It came from a cousin of mine in Wood County who is now 90 years old. I have no way of verifying if it is really him. It's on the internet. Do you have any info on the photo?

I'm working on my John Richey (9) page if you want to take a look. Or you can take a look at my user page. Thanks for your help. Pam--Txbluebell6 14:11, 3 May 2010 (EDT)

Red River County [14 May 2010]

My parents live in Red River County and many of my ancestors and relatives are buried there and in other Northeast/East Texas counties. My husband and I live only a few hours from there, so we visit several times during the year. Let me know if you need gravestone pics etc. for your RR County research. My dad also has the bound marriage record books that the county clerk's office recently put together, and I can look up information in those. (I haven't posted a tree on WeRelate yet, but my families are Moore, Spell, Harris, Ritchey, Cash etc. on one side and Somerville, Chambers, Allen, Hart, Hervey etc. on the other.)

Sharon Moore Lunsford--Sharra 17:54, 14 May 2010 (EDT)

"Doc" Holliday [8 September 2010]

Hello, I noticed the change that you made to John Henry "Doc" Holliday. Since the surname for this family was clearly "Holliday" and not "Holiday", I've reverted your change to show "Holliday" as the primary spelling and "Holiday" as the alternate, which conforms to the WeRelate Naming Conventions. The spelling of "Holliday" is consistent with most (if not all) records of this family, as well as listings in Ancestry, Familysearch and Wikipedia as well as many books written of his life, including the following:

Image:Doc Holliday Book.jpg


Doc Holliday: The Life and Legend, by Gary L. Roberts'
Famous Gunfighters of the Western Frontier: Wyatt Earp, Doc Holliday, Luke Short and Others, by W.B. (Bat) Masterson
Doc Holliday (Gunfighter Chronicles), by Matt Braun
Doc Holliday's Road to Tombstone, by Tom Barnes
The Illustrated Life and Times of Doc Holliday, by Bob Bose Bell

and others.


Jim Volunteer Administrator on WeRelate--Delijim 11:44, 8 September 2010 (EDT)

Featured Page for week of September 27, 2010 [28 September 2010]

Hello, just wanted to let you know that one of the WeRelate person pages that you've contributed to and worked on, Nicholas Earp, has been selected as this week's WeRelate Featured Page. Thanks and keep up the good work.

Best regards,

Jim:)--Delijim 13:55, 28 September 2010 (EDT)

Another Featured Page - week of October 11th [11 October 2010]

Congrats again on having one of your pages, William Smith being selected as this week's WeRelate Featured Page! Keep up the good work and best regards,

Jim - Volunteer Administrator on WeRelate:)--Delijim 12:51, 11 October 2010 (EDT)

Thanks for Bourie connection How about a KY Brick Wall or two? [21 October 2010]


Since you noted experience in KY Genealogy... If you have time, would you take a look at my William Holmes and his father-in-law William Bybee? The Bybees are pretty well documented and all over KY but I have not been able to connect my line to them. And William Holmes rode into Green Co, KY, paid tax on horse in 1846,and married my great grandmother Elizabeth Bybee the next year moving on to MO for the 1850 census. Since he had a horse and not oxen or cattle I assume he was traveling from somewhere when he stopped in Green Co but have never been able to figure out where he came from.

Cheers, Buddy Holmes Charleston, SC--B.holmes 13:28, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

Virgie Lee Jackson [12 April 2011]

Hey there, I added Virgie's obit to your file. I am a Howell Descendant as is the parrotluvr here....We both research the Howells together.

Would love to talk with you on our joint lines.

Darlene Tracy ( 23:50, 11 April 2011 (EDT)

Lucas VanArsdale sig [6 May 2011]

Hi Mike, saw the change you made, adding Lucas VanArsdale's signature to the Featured Page. Looks good, the state flag was all that I could think of, since there were no portrait or other pictures to use...

Have a great weekend,

Jim:)--Delijim 10:06, 6 May 2011 (EDT)

Civil War project page [17 May 2011]

Hi, Mike. I finally got around to creating the American Civil War Veterans project page. Hopefully it gives enough info on how to add categories without being overwhelming. -- Amy (Ajcrow) 22:25, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

Excellent, Amy -- thanks for doing that! I have a lot of CW people in the Red River project, especially, and I've been feeling a little guilty that I haven't been categorizing them as I go along. I think I'll pause in my research & page-making and get that done.
And now I also have a model for a category for all the guys that took part in the Texas Revolution -- or should it be the Texas War of Independence? Nearly all those units had the names of the captains, though, not numbers, so I'll have to establish an authority source first. --MikeTalk 07:29, 17 May 2011 (EDT)
That sounds like a great category (no matter what you call it <g>). I've wondered if using the name of the captains would be a good way to categorize War of 1812 veterans, but I fear that there are too many veterans for whom the captain's name isn't known. I hate to dump everyone into a state-level category, but I just don't see any way around it. -- Amy (Ajcrow) 07:33, 17 May 2011 (EDT)
Hmmm. I'm not sure the pipe is working the way I was expecting it to: See Person:George Pickett (11), as an example. The listing appears on the regimental page just as the Person Page title, not as the individual's name, last-name-first. --MikeTalk 10:22, 17 May 2011 (EDT)
That's the way the pipe works for a category. It affects the sort order, not how it appears. If you leave off the pipe and the text after it, everything would sort under P for "Person:" and then alpha by first name. I've asked Dallan if it could change the way it appears on the category page, but apparently it can't. -- Amy (Ajcrow) 10:58, 17 May 2011 (EDT)

Creating links and User Page [19 May 2011]

Mike, I know I need to post something on the User Page but every time I go there it seems like I can't think of anything!!! I will do the User Page at some point. I am learning how to do things as I need them (my style of learing). I am very interested in this Civil War Project since I have a ton of these guys. I keep asking Judy questions when I have a doubt. She has been a world of help. I can't ever thank you guys enough for introducing me to WeRelate. Just hope I live long enough to post everything I want to. Can't Gedcom for various reasons but this gives me a chance to go through everything and evaluate every document. Thanks again. Sue--Suebado 09:37, 19 May 2011 (EDT)

Martins & Mcgowens

Hi Mike, I am so happy to find you. I have been working on my Red River family for years. I am hoping you can help. My family the Martins and Mcgowens came from Henry, Tennesse about 1840. John Martin bought land from a Henry Ritchey and died about 1842 leaving a widow and three young children. His wife's name was Eliza Jane Mcgowen. Here is what I need help with. An artical in the Northern Standared in July 1850 states that Mrs. Martin took and ax and hit her father on his head three times and killed him. It happened on the 5th of July. She was not charged on grounds of insanity. I can not find the court records for this case. I am very interested in any information I can find on this. It is a very exciting mystery. You might already be familiar with this murder case. I don't think very many daughters killed their fathers with an ax. They lived a few miles from Clarksville Let me know if you can help.

Thanks Brenda--Brendadanielsond 14:35, 3 June 2011 (EDT)--MikeTalk 16:19, 5 June 2011 (EDT)

Turner Cemetery [19 July 2011]

Hi, Mike. Are these two difference cemeteries or just one: Place:Turner Cemetery, Fulbright, Red River, Texas, United States and Place:Turner Cemetery, Red River, Texas, United States. Thanks. -- Amy (Ajcrow) 17:40, 19 July 2011 (EDT)

1880s letters [29 July 2011]

Great to hear from you Mike. Have been hoping an expert would offer suggestions. And, yes, I do want to get these letters into wider circulation, and appreciate your comments. I haven't moved forward on anything other than the transcription because I understand there may be a legal issue. My gm's will left everything to my father, with verbal instructions from her as to who was to receive certain things. I inherited about half the letters (hopefully the others are still with my great uncle's family, somewhere; if not, my hundreds are still a treasure). As a result, I have no legal written proof of ownership. And, legally I must have that written proof to publish, is my understanding. Any ideas? Tamara--Gold lotus 99 16:09, 28 July 2011 (EDT)

Again, thanks for your insight and suggestions. Up until now, didn't have a clear idea as to how to proceed, and now feel more clarity thanks to your note.

Will start attempting to track the other half of the letters. Why they were divided? Might be because the author died in her early fifties, and her husband and children read and re-read these letters after her death. The others went to one of the author's sons. Still, I don't know why.

In terms of knowing the context, I have a fairly good starting place in terms of background. B.A. in history, emphasis on America 1850 - 1900, especially westward movement, and reform movements such as abolition, suffrage, and temperance. My graduate work is in counseling psychology, and I taught psychology at the M.A. level. Refreshing on relevant US history should be fairly easy, and I've been developing knowledge of her region of NW IL and SW WI. Research skills, curiosity and tenacity will hopefully take me where I need to be.

I'm surprised by your suggestion to contact a potential publisher. Would have thought I needed to have the transcribing done before approaching. Will be interesting! Much appreciation, Tamara--Gold lotus 99 20:46, 28 July 2011 (EDT)

Selen Stout [1 August 2011]

Hi Mike,

I looked for the source on the "Dr" on Selen and could not find it quickly so I took it out, no problem. If and when I find it, I will discuss it with you. It may just be a family story. I looked at several serious research stories and as you said, none of them mention it. It quite possibly could be someplace in Gerald Post's book Alive and Good to Know, which was written on Pine Forest. He was a good Historian, did excellent work, but I do have some points that I don't agree with him on. He interviewed hundreds and hundreds of people in the 1940's on.

Thanks for the info. Pam--Txbluebell6 16:47, 1 August 2011 (EDT)

Cemetery Standard Items [29 October 2011]

You hit the high points, but you also want to keep your eyes open for any cemetery that also has a page on wikipedia. If you make use of the {{source-wikipedia|cemetery name on wp}} template at the top, we'll also get the WP introduction for the cemetery, a link to the WP article for the cemetery, and other WP extracts that mention to cemetery on WP will be substituted with the local place here on WeRelate.

A recently tuned example is Place:Eliot Burying Ground, Roxbury, Suffolk, Massachusetts, United States, while an example that had the WP inserted some time ago is Place:Granary Burying Ground, Boston, Suffolk, Massachusetts, United States.--jrm03063 19:59, 28 October 2011 (EDT)

Help [1 December 2011]

Hi Mike, I am Married to the grandson of Wm. John & Alta Mahon I've been searching long and hard to find his uncle David. The information i got was that he died before his brother Paul and have no idea when or where. Or if he actually did. David served in WW2 as a naval officer. Other then that I don't have information about him. If there is any way you can let me know who started the tree i would be so greatfull and so would my husband he is searching for relatives that he can connect with.--DevetteM 17:23, 30 November 2011 (EST)

[Replies moved to Devette's user page. --MikeTalk 07:25, 1 December 2011 (EST)]

Census templates [17 February 2012]

Hi Mike,

I think Amelia created the census templates. --Beth 20:40, 17 February 2012 (EST)

Isaiah Dedrick Lawson in Red River Co, TX [22 March 2012]


I'm a direct descendant of Isaiah Dedrick Lawson that you have listed in your Family Trees [3]. I'm descended through Isaiah Hampton Lawson which you have listed as a child of Isaiah Dedrick and Mary Elizabeth McCowen Lawson.

However, Isaiah Hampton's mother is not Mary Elizabeth McCowen Lawson. Isaiah Hampton is the son of Isaiah Dedrick Lawson and his first wife who is unknown. Mary Elizabeth McCowen was Isaiah Dedrick's second wife and the other children listed are hers.

I understand it is your wife who has Red River County roots. Is she related to my Lawson family in any way? If so, I'd like to correspond with either of you about this more.

Thanks, Charles Lawson--C Lawson 01:06, 22 March 2012 (EDT)

Another Featured Page [30 April 2012]

Hi Mike, just wanted to let you know that your Source Page: Source:Texas, United States. Descriptive Muster Roll of Captain Becknell's Company Mustered into Service on the 14Th of July 1836 is this week's WeRelate Featured Page. Nicely done, keep up the good work! Have a great week and best regards,

Jim:)--Delijim 18:09, 30 April 2012 (EDT)

Frank and Jesse James [8 May 2012]

Hi Mike,

The Missouri Digital Archives is a fantastic site. While searching for a death certificate I found that they have some original images regarding the James brothers. I don't have the time to add them to your pages but thought that you would be interested. If you don't have the time you may add the link to the relevant pages. Link is [4]. I did not find any terms of use for this site; they seem to share their images so if you locate something different please let me know. --Beth 19:41, 8 May 2012 (EDT)

Daniel Boone Hatfield [23 May 2012]


I'm related to Daniel Boone Hatfield through his son Wesley Mordica, Harvey Daniel, and my grandfather Volney Karl. I'd like to fill in some of the information I have. Do you have a picture of Daniel Boone Hatfield or his gravestone?

Thanks for all you hard work!

Mike McClenahan--Mikemcclenahan 23:31, 22 May 2012 (EDT)

Suggestion for Featured Page - thanks [23 May 2012]

Hi Mike, sorry I missed your Featured Page suggestion from a few weeks ago, I overlooked it on my talk page. I'm going to use it as this week's Featured Page (a little late for April, but better late than never I guess)... Just an FYI - I also lightened up William Claiborne's portrait a bit so it was easier to see....

Thanks again for the suggestion. In the future, feel free to add any Featured Page suggestions to the Featured Page Nomination Page, which all of the Admins are free to add worthy candidates.

Thanks and best regards,

Jim:)--Delijim 13:56, 23 May 2012 (EDT)

thanks for the advice. [27 May 2012]

thanks for the Input and the advice. I will admit that I found a lot of conflicting information on line working alone. I am working from working from some word of mouth info as well as several sites on line including ghat. I am very new at this and before I even got hooked on this I had over 600 persons all in direct lineage to my daughters. I have been trying to sort it all out when I found this site and thought "HELP AT LAST!!!!" I do actually have a picture of George Washington Hatfield and his wife Anna Rader in a memorial that is sitting in my living room. the inscription reads:

"In Loving Remembrance of My Dear Husband George W. Hatfield Died June 17th 1892 Aged 48 years 11m 13days"

using this information and what info I could muster up I tied them to Joseph unfortunately I ran through so much information in the process that I didnt even think of citing the info until after the fact now I am trying to recreate work done and actually prove out everything on my tree here at home I havent even started looking for the other lines.

anyway sorry if I messed things up just trying to put this together this was the first main branch that I have been working.

and any help is always appreciated

thanks Stephen W. Kissee

P.S. Just found a Obit For Anna Rader i only have a partial Paper name dated 23 DEC 1920 the paper is ? Gazette Vol. 45 No. 52 it is a Missouri paper the obit gives dob. place of birth marriage date and dod. and place

how do you document such findings as this and the memorial?

thanks again SWK--Kissmenow 10:13, 27 May 2012 (EDT)

Reply and questions [29 May 2012]

I am glad I didn't mess things up.

no I have never taken a course in geneology. I think it would be fun now that I am fairly hooked and frustrated all at once. I love puzzles and this is like the biggest puzzle I have ever worked. I started this endevor 3 mo. ago. I wanted to do a little reseach for my girls since they are 4 and 6 so that they would know a little about their heritage. this turned out to be a good time because I am presently locked out of work and have been since Aug 1. So I have all kinds of time but not much money. frustration comes when all the possible info is tied up on pay sites and there is no guarentee that it is even there. The other thing that led me to get started was my cousin has already been working on her side of the tree on and sent me a link to her site. so I had access to names and dates but even as I went through her stuff I found obvious errors with her data. I started transfering the names of my direct ancestors to a family tree maker program 6.0 which I am sure is way out of date. Anyway to make a long story short I started to type the information in one name at a time as I had done to get it on my computer and then seen that I could load my whole tree minus the living and the oldest. so I opted for the shortcut. my bad! now my first question is you said to take it slow so... should I delete my tree that I uploaded on here and start from scratch or should I work with what I have here and start proving it out.

my location really sucks. I am in the north east corner of North Dakota about as isolated as you can get for being right in the middle of the contenant. the nearest library is about 50mi. and though I have a bunch of geneology book from there. not much for sources unless it has to do with ND history.

a lot of my info on the hatfields that I have came from hatfieldancestry and I am not sure of all his sources but he ties the line all the way back to John Hetfelde born 1500 in Yorkshire, England. I guess you are cousins too my wife if you are tied to Joseph Hatfield. at least it appears that way from the info that I have so far. or at least half cousins lol. But I am the one who has found the intrest in doing this and I started on this line because my wife and mother in law always are talking about being related to a hatfield. In my own family from what I have from my cousin I appear to be related to George Soule from the Mayflower pact and to Sir Henry Vane the Younger yet to be proven of course but for my girls that is a lot of history.

ok question 2 I have a handful of letters written during the civil war, I believe, written by George W. Hatfield to his future wife Anna Rader. Should I Scan these to the computer and/or transcribe them. A lot of this is sappy love stuff but some of it may be significant.

well I know you are a busy man cause researching these people takes days but I do enjoy corresponding with you. it gives me different insight to what I am doing.

Stephen W. Kissee

P.S. I am going to start with editing my profile page today or tomorrow any Ideas about a format to use I like how you have done yours and made links to different areas like name you are researching ect. but I am not as familiar with wiki programing as you are. talk later!--Kissmenow 15:51, 29 May 2012 (EDT)

Geneology Question [7 June 2012]

Where would you look for an original birth certificate of a person who was adopted and now is deceased. I do know the biological parents Surname and the adopted name... not sure where to go from there.????--Kissmenow 19:28, 5 June 2012 (EDT)

There's fifty different answers to that question -- one for each state. In some states, birth certifictes actually were changed upon adoption, with no indication retained of the names of the biological parents. (That always seemed like criminal fraud to me.) In most states, the record of adoption with the names of the birth parents was sealed by the court and was not usually available to anyone. All that began to change a couple decades ago with the movement among adoptees to locate their birth parents. I suggest you go to the state office (online) for the state you're interested in and see what the current law is, and the procedure for requesting the original birth certificate. You probably will find the fees and the forms there, too. (All this is assuming the person was born long enough ago for the birth certificate to be made public at all -- usually 100 years or close to it.) --MikeTalk 15:58, 6 June 2012 (EDT)

thanks Mike sounds like it will be a difficult venture and the record will not be 100 for 6 more yrs--Kissmenow 15:13, 7 June 2012 (EDT)

Family:Josiah Leathers and Amy Zeigler (1) [2 July 2012]

Hi Mike. Since you have been working on this family recently maybe you could address the message on the family page. Thanks. --Beth 00:07, 3 July 2012 (EDT)

in Your Opinion? [13 July 2012]


I am still around and working on my tree
I have a question for you
I have an ancester Benjamin Burch Keesee
He was born 1784
I am finding few records for him
most of what I have found says he was born in old dominion Kentucky
one of the records I did find for him was a 1850 Census and had him born in Virginia
I started thinking that maybe I had the wrong record
then I thought "Old Dominion is typically associated with Virginia
I researched and found that Kentucky did not become a state until 1792
beforehand it was part of Virginia

My question to someone who has been doing this much longer than I have, is should I have his place of birth as Virginia or Kentucky?

Stephen W. Kissee--Kissmenow 22:12, 12 July 2012 (EDT)

[23 July 2012]

We Relate Featured Page - Week of July 23, 2012 [23 July 2012]

Hi Mike, just wanted to let you know that your Place Page, Magnolia Cemetery, Baton Rouge, Louisiana has been selected as this week's WeRelate Featured Page! Congrats, nicely done, and keep up the good work!

Best regards, have a great week,

Jim:)--Delijim 19:48, 23 July 2012 (EDT)

James & Micajah Bankston of Red River County Texas [24 July 2012]

James and Micajah Bankston are my GGGGrandfather and GGGrandfather respectively. I've been involved in researching my family history for the past several years as time permits and have established contact with a number of near and distant relations that have been of considerable assistance in adding to the family history. I just encountered your site today and joined in the hopes that your knowledge and familiarity with the resources available in Red River County along with the outreach afforded by your website, I might be able to fill in some of the missing pieces - namely the gravesite of James Bankston and his son Micajah. Micajah died of pneumonia in the Federal hospital located in Memphis, TN while a POW (he was a member of the Texas 9th Cavalry CSA) and I don't know if his remains made it back to Red River County.

I'll be spending time becoming familiar with the We Relate site and will try to contribute my findings in some fashion that will hopefully prove to be helpful. I live in the Dallas, Texas area and have been planning on eventually making it back to Clarksville, Texas to visit the courthouse and get a better idea as to the former landholdings of James Bankston so as to plan an excursion to try to determine if his final resting place is on his former homestead as searches of local Clarksville/Annona, Texas cemeteries have not been fruitful.

I've been involved with a Bankston genome project that has definitely determined that James and Micajah are descended from the first "Bankston" to arrive in the Americas - Anders Bengtsson - from Sweden. Unfortunately, the paper trail linking James to previous ancestors is broken except for a vague reference to an Oglethorpe County, GA birth entry dated 1800 for a James Bankston.--Corsair II 15:13, 24 July 2012 (EDT)

Micajah & Sarah Bankston & a later marriage [25 July 2012]

I found some very interesting info regarding Sarah while researching my GGrandfather Sam Houston Bankston. His wife - Alice (Kinsel) was the daughter of Augustus Klnsel, who is buried in Corinth Cemetery near Buckholtz, Texas. According to Grimes County, Texas marriage records, not only did Sam marry Alice in that county, Augustus and Sarah (Sam's mother) also were married around the same time in Grimes County. However, Sarah is not buried with Augustus though one of his sons is buried alongside him - James Roberson Kinsel.--Corsair II 22:41, 24 July 2012 (EDT)

Jackson - San Saba, Texas [25 July 2012]

Mike - is your wife also related to the Jacksons of San Saba, Texas. My Grandmother - Margaret Vera Bankston's maiden name was Jackson. Her family had a ranch in San Saba County. I Believe her mother's maiden name was Van Dyke.--Corsair II 00:09, 25 July 2012 (EDT)

Nope, afraid not. James Jackson migrated with his wife & kids from Knox Co., Tennessee, to Red River in the mid-1850s, and they never went any farther south. James's son, Calvin, married Eveline Bateman in 1866; she was born in Red River an her family had arrived a generation earlier. The younger Jacksons moved to Sherman, where my ex-wife was born (and also to Arkansas & Oklahoma) c.1900 and there are none left in Red River now. --MikeTalk 07:52, 25 July 2012 (EDT)

Question on Bible Category [25 July 2012]

Hi Mike, I'm sorry to be so late in getting back to you as I have been out of town. What I was thinking about is a "Bible Category" that would have all the Family Bible pages pointed to it so a user could go to it and just browse the category and see all of the Family Bible information contained on WeRelate sorta like the Online Bible site: Records Online. I know they would only be there when the images or transcripts have been pointed, but I was thinking it would be helpful to users.

Thanks, Pam--Txbluebell6 10:58, 25 July 2012 (EDT)

Editing a few of your Western Characters... [3 October 2012]

Saw your page and the list of old west characters. Added/revised/repaired WP references and templates, and added/modified "Find A Grave" references to use templates (the current practice I think). Hope I'm not getting in the way - it kind of looked like life had intervened between you and a project - and I'm a total sucker for adding pages that establish mapping to Wikipedia biographical pages anyway! --jrm03063 16:31, 3 October 2012 (EDT)

Renaming pages [6 November 2012]

Hi Mike, I noticed that in the recent pages you've been renaming, you are renaming either the Person or Family page, but not necessarily both. When you rename a Family page like Family:Montague Eliot and Helen Post (1), you also need to manually rename the Person page (ie, Person:Montague Eliot, 8th Earl of St Germans (1)). Also, if you rename a Person page, each of the Family pages would need to be renamed. My apologies if you already know this and have a system in place to revisit these pages later :)--Jennifer (JBS66) 13:40, 4 November 2012 (EST)

That's because I've only just started. :) I imported the GEDCOM last night and started going through the pages this morning, one at a time. (It's raining; a good time to do genealogy.) I do all the Family pages first because they're at the top of the stack in FTE. Then I do all the Person pages. (I import them to a "temp" tree, then move them as I do them to their permanent home.) It'll take a few days. Some of the titles of peers got mysteriously jumbled in the import process, too, so I'm having to sort that out as well. --MikeTalk 13:47, 4 November 2012 (EST)
And in fairness - many/most of the existing peers that I put in place - present with the full WP name and not the WR given/surname form. So mostly not his fault... :) --jrm03063 07:50, 6 November 2012 (EST)

Bankrupt Aristocrats and Gilded Age Heiresses.... [5 November 2012]

I see you've been traveling in some interesting territory. I hope that the "WP shell" that I left out there makes aligning/matching content easy. I did a little more work on some ancestry on the American side of those folks - and was surprised how many matches I picked up as I headed back.

I really think the WR database is starting to represent a really amazing contiguous body of ancestry. --jrm03063 16:55, 5 November 2012 (EST)

Ontario Vital Statistics Source Pages [19 January 2013]

Thanks for your quick answer.

I have had a go with an alteration for the births--I'll tackle the marriages and deaths tomorrow, even though it will be a fair bit of copy and paste. (I live in the UK and it is just about the end of my "thinking" day, i.e. almost 10pm.)

Looking through the list of sources, there are going to be a few redirects. I may need assistance with this operation.

I haven't worked through the automatic changing date. Ontario Archives are in the midst of changing their scheme of things and it might be best to wait until they get out the year of registrations which is now six months late. I think they are planning to put the index to the registrations online for 1915 births, but from this distance I'm not absolutely sure.

Usage Tips includes a long list of FHC microfilms without any explanation of what is on each. The same thing has been done on Canadian censuses, where the list goes on for miles. Wouldn't it be better to tell WR users to go to the FamilySearch online catalogue?

--goldenoldie 16:54, 19 January 2013 (EST)

Red River Project [22 April 2013]


Someday I need to study some of your research, especially on the Claiborne family. I still have never inked Claiborne Wright to CCC Claiborne. Maybe I'll get back to writing more about the Red River Pioneers someday. Just proofed a new book from UNT Press on Withenbury's steamboat activities on the Red in the 1840s.

Look at under my name and you'll see what books I now have available, including the sequel manuscript to Six Months From Tennessee, called 47 Years. Sometime this summer I'll clean it up into good book form.

Skipper Steely paris, texas--Wrightpress 10:50, 22 April 2013 (EDT)

No merge of Robert Harcourt and Isabel de Camville [24 May 2013]

Hello. I was wondering why the no merge message was added to this page.--Werebear 11:24, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

Four years ago? At this late date, I have no idea. Possibly because one has the "de" and the other doesn't, and they hadn't been shown (at the time) to be the same couple on both pages. That's a guess. --MikeTalk 18:57, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

So it's OK for me to merge them?--Werebear 09:54, 5 May 2013 (EDT)
If you're sure they're the same people, yes, go right ahead. (Sorry for the delay -- I was working on an editorial deadline and was resolutely staying away from WeRelate for a couple weeks. . . .) --MikeTalk 08:08, 24 May 2013 (EDT)

Research Sources [18 August 2013]

Hello I was researching my family and I came across your page as there are some names you are researching also. The first names I saw that you had were Thomas and Childester both from Connecticut. I have seen a long line of names, dates and places on One World Tree and on but I never see any sources or documents. I try not to add people unless I can verify to at least some degree. Do you know if there are any sources for these families? Any help would be appreciated.

Best regards Vince 13:17, 18 August 2013 (EDT)

Ferry ... from Picardie (Aisne or Oise) [27 September 2013]

Mike ! Please ... see my "notes" - Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 16:11, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

D'où vient cette information sur la naissance de Person:Rene Ferri (1) en juin 1721, à Marseille-en-Beauvaisis ? Il doit y avoir une erreur, car je ne trouve pas cet acte de baptême sur le site des "Archives Départementales de l'Oise" : page 120, à gauche. Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 16:36, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Thomas Lawson and Lillie Winston [13 November 2013]

Hi Mike, I was working on WR's Duplicates report and noticed a family of yours: Family:Thomas Lawson and Lillie Winston (1). On 5 Sep, a user added a second version of the husband to the page, Thomas Jefferson Lawson. Since you are more familiar with this region, I thought I should leave the fix to you :) Thanks, --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:34, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for calling this to my attention. This user seems to have confused an uncle and nephew. The Lawsons admittedly didn't help much by reusing the same given names over and over for several generations. --MikeTalk 14:58, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Isaac Bateman (one of them!) [10 March 2014]

Gosh I hope you are still available here! Isaac Bateman (there are at least 3 - 4 known to me that are in Texas by 1846). Republic of TX voter /Poll list 1846: One is Red River and one in Bowie County. I have background but not sure it helps to give here. The Isaac Bateman I have ("Mine") was born in TN 1838 TN and then appears in Red River marrying Catherine Emily Smith (b. AL) 29 Jul 1856. They appear in 1860 Red River census with Son William T (Thomas) age 2.He was born 31 Jul 1857. After that the family sort of fragments/disappears. I know that William T goes to Franklin County Arkansas apparently with Laney/Butts/McCrary families where he is known to marry [ 2 Sept 1879] to Elizabeth Jane Carter b. 6 Apr 1851 ( she was divorced from Jesse Jeffers there in Franklin Co. Her family came from TN probably Rutherford/ Gibson Co). The Bateman, Laney, Butts, McCrary, Styles/Stiles were all in Red River 1860 time frame and then they moved to Franklin Co AR - I wish I knew WHY! Then back to the father: Isaac Bateman. His page here says that Isaac Bateman same birthrates and marriage dies in Howard County (I believe it says after 1900). My family lore says he died after 1860.....and before 1870. Further there is a confederate cemetery in Van Buren Crawford County AR - next to Franklin Co -- Isaac Bateman Co K Texas Cav (I've been to the grave site and I believe that is the correct unit on the stone which was documented thru the UDC chatter in Franklin Co area) and that would have been Battle of Pea Ridge I believe. While it is certainly possible that "my" Isaac Bateman could have been a widower, remarried and ended up in Howard Co AR (which I would doubt) and it is possible that it could be "my" Isaac that was in that CSA TX Cav unit and died near the Franklin Co area in AR (but I've loved at did not see Red River Co in the list of that unit-- he could have ended up there). AND it is possible that "my" Isaac could have have died in Red River along with his wife Catherine Emily Smith and the LANEY etc group took him in and they all went up to Franklin Co AR. Back in the Red River wills about that time - after 1860, There is an unmarried Isaac Bateman who dies and leaves his land to heirs Jonathan and Evan Bateman (who I believe came from Cannon Co TN about 1840 or so). THERE IS A LONG LIST OF ISSUES ! but perhaps you have some info to add to my search that pertains to history of Red River Co at that time???? I'm going to pose thiese to the owner of the Isaac Bateman page (Mr Smith).. Thank you for ANY thoughts or facts that you might have!!! I registered here and HOPE that I will get a message via my regular email if you find time to address/acknowledge This is my first in reading thru this website info and I see that there is a LOT to learn. Thus I'm hoping you can point me in the right directions. I have info read court records from Cannon County TN about 1838 that have Jonathan Bateman, constable, removing in 1838 and other similar names Bateman land owner who then do not appear in next census. Since those similar names do appear in Red River just about that time frame, I'm wondering if they are the SAME? I know this is convoluted and I hope it is comprehensible !! I'm only an amateur but have been working ( well, dabbling) in family history since I used to hear stories as a kid in Franklin Co AR where several of my great -great grandparents settled and "remnants" of smily still live. Jamie--JAFJamison 17:44, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

1850 Samuel Smith household - William H Smith brick wall [27 April 2014]

I can't say I read the entire page thoroughly, but that Elizabeth J Smith, age 22, in the 1850 household of Samuel Smith doesn't look like a daughter to me. Possibly a daughter in law, maybe the wife of Jacob. Why? Because she is listed last, out of order according to age, and even after a younger Nancy E, 14, who could be a daughter. I've seen this pattern before and the ones at the end of the household are not necessarily children. Have you found Jacob on later censuses or marriage records and is he married to an Elizabeth?

Also, as to which Boone County William H Smith was born in: look for the families around him in Monroe County, Iowa. Where did they come from, Indiana or Illinois? Just looking at it geographically I would guess Indiana. Migration patterns will tell you a lot.

And I'd really look at this Samuel Smith and see where he had been. I think Kentucky to Indiana was a pretty popular route. My family isn't from this area, but I worked on one family who was DNA related and a bunch of them went from KY to IND.

-- Ed Hamilton--EdH 19:42, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

captain wm Becknell [19 June 2014]

I am interesting in this family. because I am looking for a Harvey Becknell that married Maria Fulbright. There is a boy named Harvey in Wm. Becknell estate records. I have information that he is the grandson of the Captain thru Lucy. do u have any information on who he is?--Bbecknell2 13:43, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Everything I know about Capt. Becknell, I've posted here already. You might take a look at the article on him at the Handbook of Texas Online. And read Beachum's William Becknell, Father of the Santa Fe Trade (1982). I haven't followed all his kids -- although, if Harvey was the Captain's grandson via his daughter, his surname wouldn't be "Becknell," would it? Also, there are a large number of Fulbrights in and around Red River County, but I have no record in my files of a "Maria." Are you sure it's the same family? --MikeTalk 12:31, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Henry & Sarah Mattox [17 September 2014]

Thanks, Mike, for your quick reply, and congrats and making the connection between Patrick and Henry. I'll let you proceed at your own pace -- I don't like being rushed, myself. --GayelKnott 03:31, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

George Nebeker info [11 December 2014]

Hi Mike, got your message on George Nebeker, sorry the info is incorrect on Find-A-Grave, feel free to correct it to what you know. I happened to notice the family during a search and thought I'd add some pertinent info from the Census and Find-A-Grave. Did you e-mail the Find-A-Grave submitter to have the information corrected? If not, let me know, and I can also e-mail them....

Best regards and Happy Holidays,

Jim:)--Delijim 17:05, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Blundell [7 March 2015]

Noticed on William Blundell, you had a marriage to Catherine Cole. I did not see a source for this or his death date. Katherine Cole Blundell's death certificate shows she was born in Texas in 1894, married to Grover Blundell, and died in 1930. The last document that we have located on William is a document to sell the land in Lavaca signed in 1881 in Grayson County. Would appreciate any assistance in this.

RETaylor--Retaylor 14:41, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Sources for Job Gastineau Sr and Jr [16 March 2015]

I tried to find some records pertaining to them.

"United States Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty Land Warrant Applications, 1800-1900," index, FamilySearch ( : accessed 14 March 2015), Job Gastineau, pension number R. 4783, service Va.; from "Revolutionary War Pension and Bounty-Land Warrant Application Files," database and images, ( : n.d); citing NARA microfilm publication M804 (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, n.d); FHL microfilm 971,236.

I'm not sure how this information fits in or if it is a source of any relevant information.--Rallen002 21:28, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

I've seen this before, cranking film back in the pre-Internet days. William Hays was a neighbor of the Gastineaus on Flat Lick Creek in Pulaski County, which is still a pretty undeveloped corner of Kentucky. (I've driven all up and down that creek.) Since this was in 1844, this Job is the one usually called "Job Jr.," the brother of William Gastineau in this document. Both are sons of "Job Sr." I descend through their older brother, George, and his son, James, who moved to Indiana.
But there is a red herring you should know about on Job Sr. that has been around since the 1930s, at least, and which can be very misleading. Here's the story on that, quoted from the late Flossie Oakes, who was the principal researcher in original documents in the '50s & '60s:
Mrs. S.A. Frye (Somerset, KY) contends that Job's Revolutionary War service record is taken from Saffell's Virginia Soldiers (p. 267): Job Gastineau, Private, 12th Virginia Co., Nov 30, 1778, under Capt. John Gregory, in Col. Daniel Moran's Co.
However, John W. Dudley, Asst. Archivist, Virginia State Library (Richmond), states that "An examination of W.T.R. Saffell's Records of the Revolutionary War reveals that the references on p. 267 pertain to one Job GASKINS rather than to Job Gastineau."
Dr. John E. Manahan, Prof. of History at Virginia State Univ (and a reliable genealogist) says the name GASTINEAU had never been spelled GASKINS, as he himself is of the Gaskins lineage and is familiar with their pedigree.
Unfortunately, the original claim has been repeated and re-repeated so many times, it's taken on the gloss of authenticity, even though it's been proved wrong. And although it also appears in the DAR Patriot Index (p. 261), the DAR itself no longer accepts this line, either.
The Job Gastineau Sr. for whom this claim is made, and who had land surveys in Washington Co., Virginia, in Feb 1790 & Oct 1799, and was apparently married to Elizabeth Mercer Brown, has no provable Revolutionary service at all. No really good birth or death dates, either, though he was still paying taxes in Pulaski Co., Kentucky, in 1811. All the documentation for him is so "soft," in fact, that he's the natural target for wishful thinking of the "You can't prove he didn't!" variety. Janie Budd has made a very good case for Job Sr. being the son of George Lewis Gastineau, the immigrant ancestor, but Job Sr. is still the weakest link in that whole chain. --MikeTalk 13:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Editing source question [16 May 2015]

I was expecting to add a source but found you had already added it here: Source:Ellis, Franklin. History of Fayette County, Pennsylvania. But then I saw that your source is a later version and with a different publisher than I found. So I don't know if I should add the repository (a free website) that I found or not. Here is what I have:
History of Fayette County, Pennsylvania: with biographical sketches of many of its pioneers and prominent men
by Ellis, Franklin (1828-1885)

Published 1882 by L. H. Everts & Co., Philadelphia

I doubt if there should be two sources but don't know for sure if or how to edit the current source page. Can you fix it? --janiejac 19:16, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Janie. I ordinarily cite to the original publication, but I obviously didn't that time. But all of Unigraphic's publications during the 1960s-1980s were photographic reproductions -- including the same page numbers, so you can cite accurately just as in the original publication. I've updated the page accordingly to reflect the reprint. --MikeTalk 12:05, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Early Red River Settlers [28 March 2016]

Hello, I'm searching for sources of early Red River County settlers and their history, My quest is to try and see if I can determine the cause of death of my g-g-grandfather's parents. His guardianship case first appeared in May 1841 in the newly formed Lamar County Probate Court. I haven't had any luck although I did find out his uncle, the one granted the guardianship, served 6 months in the Texas State Militia during the time of the building of Shelton's Fort near Roxton. If you could help or suggest anything I wound appreciate any suggestions. Thanks, Larry Patterson--LPatterson 11:39, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Larry. I assume you already took a look at my Red River Project page? You didn;t mention a name and you didn't say where you're located, but there's a virtually complete bibliography there of secondary sources. If you're in the eastern half of Texas, almost all of those are available at the Dallas Public Library (because I made sure of it), and the Clayton in Houston also has most of them. If you're elsewhere in the country, you can try local libraries or Inter-Library Loan, but genealogy books aren't often lent by ILL. Unfortunately, I'm now retired in south Louisiana, so I can't check those for you. However, I own a lot of them (though not all), and if you can give me a name, I can check my own library. There are also quite a few local histories published for Lamar County and Dallas would also have most or all of them. (Skipper Steely, a descendant of Claiborne Wright, has done some excellent work over the years in Lamar history.) And as I mentioned on the Project page, Clarksville itself still has a great deal of original material at the courthouse (most of it *not* available online), so it would probably be worth planning a vacation research trip there. --MikeTalk 09:07, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

My g-g-grandfathers name was James Patterson, born in AR on May 7 1832. His parents were James R Patterson and Annie Bowman were married July 14 1831 in Hempstead Co AR. Her father was Jesse B Bowman, a trapper and hunter who is arguably credited with having perished at the Alamo. Following her father, brothers, uncle, and cousins who came to Red River Co in the early 1830s, and a cousin (1835) and brother (1836) of his own, James R Patterson, wife, and son arrived Sept 1 1837. Little James would have just turned 9 years old when his guardianship was granted to his uncle in May 1841 in the Probate Court of the newly formed Lamar Co. Uncle John went on to acquire the land grants for James that his parents earned before their deaths (there is a really neat document attesting to him being the only heir, that his parents lived and died in Texas, and performed all the duties of citizens prior to their deaths). I happen to live only about 1 hour below Paris, the Lamar Co seat but time to dedicate to traveling and researching just is so scarce. Most everything I've discovered has been from online resources but the answers for my questions, if they can be found at all, may require just that. I did read through your Red River pages and find anything about there and then very interesting. Life must have been quite interesting back then. I hope perhaps you could recommend just which books to start with first as there seem to be quite a few to choose from. Thank you, LPatterson--LPatterson 03:42, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Retired genealogy librarian [11 June 2016]

Noticed on Watercooler that you are a retired genealogy librarian, so am I. Neal--SkippyG 23:57, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Red River Project, Red River County TEXAS post [24 October 2016]

Hello, My name is Marcia Connors and I am descended from Daniel Travis Alexander m Susan Ward in Sevier Co AR. They removed to RR co by 1836. By 1840 that part of the county became Lamar Co. I noticed your article on the Red River Project in werelate. I thought you might be interested in and/or have some information on Daniel Travis Alexander. His son, Robert S Alexander m Mattie A Williams in 1868 in Red River county. She was the daughter of Syntha Ann Williams Conner Cheek Stewart. Maiden name unknown. Syntha Ann homesteaded her land since 1854 in RR Co, outside Clarksville. Daniel shot and killed his neighbor Jacob Akard in 1853. He fled the county. So did some of his sons. John B was 17 at the time and he fled with Daniel. Robert S must have remained as he married Mattie Williams in 1868 R R Co. However, in 1869 there is a warrant out for his arrest also for murder in Lamar Co. I can not find them in 1870. In 1880 Martha is living in Red River Co with her mother Syntha Ann Stewart and Martha's son, James E Alexander is 10 yrs old living with them. This is a very interesting line to research and obviously very difficult. I am wondering if you are interested in any information I may have about them and if you have already come across any information on the family. Please contact me. I would prefer to get a regular email at marciacon1 @ no spaces. I would like to share and to collaborate. I hope to hear from you. Sincerely, Marcia Connors--MKC 15:28, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

James Selen Stout [3 February 2017]

Mike, I am pretty sure it is. My "Stout" family contact has passed away so don't have any additional information or anyone to check with. I think we got the spelling for "Selen" from a family letter.

Thanks, Pam Pollard--Txbluebell6 16:32, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Carter/Guthrie--First Families of Red River/Miller Co. [2 July 2017]

Good afternoon! I am new to this page/group but have done extensive research on Elijah Carter and his son, Allen. They intermarried with the Guthrie and Emberson family. I will happily share information and would love to explore their Louisiana connection in regards to a "Battle of New Orleans" reference. I have yet to explore the many links you have but I'm very excited to see so much dedicated to this area of research!

Warm regards, Catherine--Cateleventhal 21:01, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Welcome to WeRelate, but I'm afraid you're going to have to be a bit more specific about these guys. I don't have an "Elijah Carter" or an "Allen Carter" in any of the families I've been working on, and there are quite a few people of each name on WeRelate. And I have only a couple of Embersons (from Lamar County, Texas), but no Carter connections there that I can see, either. --MikeTalk 12:59, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Bowers from Red River, Texas [24 January 2018]


I am new to genealogy research, so please excuse my fumbling and lack of knowledge.

I am related to John Bowers, son of Elizabeth Bowers, who are on the 1860 Federal Census for Lamar, Precinct 6, Dwelling 329, Family 333. John Bowers, son of Elizabeth Grimes, is shown on the 1870 Federal Census for Red River, Family 1000, Dwelling 1000.

I was looking at your Red River project, which seems very comprehensive, and wondered if you could help me. From my research, 21 year old John Bowers paid a Lamar County poll tax in 1856, he is not found on later poll tax rolls. Elizabeth Francis, (whom I believe to be John's mother) moved to Lamar with her father and family as they are on the 1850 Federal Census for Lamar, Texas. Her mother died in 1856. Although Elizabeth was a single mother of John in 1860, she was not living with her father and step-mother in Lamar. Instead she was keeping house for another family in Red River. I am under the impression that Red River, TX and Lamar, TX were close to each other.

I found on the 1850 Federal Census for Red River, a Claudius Bowers born in 1856. His wife's name is Fanny. Given that many families named their children after relatives, I am wondering if Claudius is somehow related to my Father, Claude Bowers, who had a sister named Fanny.

Are you able to shed any light on my relatives who are on the 1850 and 1860 Federal Census for Lamar and Red River, TX?

Thank you!

Julie Jacobson--Jjacobson2 21:08, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Red River- Robert Hamilton Question [23 October 2018]

Some accounts say that Texas Declaration of Independence signer, Robert S. Hamilton, was born in Scotland and immigrated here in 1807 then lived in NC before moving to Texas, and that he never married or had children...but my dad's grandmother, Ava Miranda Hamilton, had a grandfather named Robert S. Hamilton, who moved to the Red River area in 1833 with the Latimer families. His sister Jane is the mother of one of the other Red River Delegate signers...Albert H. Latimer. I've found multiple mentions of him being the signer but it seems there is some confusion surrounding all of it, people seem to think there are 2 Robert S Hamilton's -- one who was buried in New Jersey- and one (that is my 4th great grandfather) who moved there the same said year, and is the uncle of one of the other delegates and is buried there. You seem to have researched this a great deal, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.--Cateb 00:48, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

Clarksville, Texas Red River County Courthouse [20 December 2018]

Hi, there,

I just joined We Relate. I read your article about Red River County Courthouse having records that pertain to other counties that used to be Red River County.

I called the Red River County Courthouse this morning, and the Clerk there didn't seem to know anything about it, and she said that records for Bowie County were moved to Bowie County. She said she'd only been working there a few years, but that was her understanding.

Do you know who I should talk to in order to find out if I can access any records for Bowie County in the 1800s? I have ancestors that moved there I'd like to find records on.

Thank you so much,

Susie Dennis--Csdennis57 15:16, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Red River Project Page [2 January 2019]

Hello, Mike,

I'm obviously doing something wrong. I clicked the bolded Red River Project Page link that I found in one of your comments, but when I click it I get a message that's it's invalid or something.

Can you point me to where I can find the Red River Project Page?

I'm obviously technologically impaired.

Thank you for your help,

Susie Dennis--Csdennis57 17:37, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi, Mike,

I just received your email responding to my questions.

I talked with the court clerk's office at Red River County again, and this time I was told by a lady who said yes, they do have certain records pertaining to Bowie County back when it was still Red River County.

I suppose the first lady I talked to just didn't know about that.

Thanks so much for responding! Hope you had a very happy holiday.

Looks like my next step is to go to Clarksville and start doing some digging.

I'm very excited and so glad I found your website. I would never have known there were more resources available if it hadn't been for you. We had thought for many years that we had reached a dead end because of the Bowie County Courthouse fire.

Thank you again!

Carol Susan Dennis--Csdennis57 16:45, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

[14 January 2019]

Hi, Mike,

I hope you got my message yesterday thanking you for having this website!

I have run into the confusion over Miller County, Arkansas already.

A question I have is about the border between Miller County-Sevier County-Little River County, Arkansas.

My ancestors moved to what I thought was called Sevier County in 1848, and they were Choctaws leaving Mississippi. I always thought they "removed" themselves to Arkansas, but in my research I've run into the fact there was border confusion between what became Indian Territory's eastern border and Arkansas's western border. I found a photo from the Southwest Archives showing the eastern Choctaw border being eight miles east of DeQueen, Arkansas, and then the Choctaw Nation sued the United States in 1886 wherein the US paid the Choctaws compensation for the land in Arkansas, and the final border as we know it today was established.

Now I can't tell if the southwestern part of Miller County-Sevier County in 1848 was actually considered by the United States Federal govt to be part of the designated Choctaw Nation for the Indian Removal.

Did my ancestors "remove" to the Choctaw Nation and in 1886 they found themselves living in the state of Arkansas, without even having moved?

Thank you,

Susie Dennis--Csdennis57 20:11, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Missing references [30 June 2019]

Mike - I've received several email notices this week of changes that you have made that have deleted many references from the family tree of my great grandparents Joseph Alexis Blanchard and Edna Clothilde Aucoin. It looks like the references I've added over the years to their family tree and several of their decedents have been decimated. Is there a reason why you are deleting so many references? If there are errors please let me know I'd be happy to work through any errors but these look more like wholesale deletions. Is there a way to replace those references?--David Blanchard 00:55, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi, David. I uploaded a large-ish GEDCOM this week on certain branches of the Aucoin part of my wife's family, about 300 people, and I've just finished going through and cleaning those up, page by page, as I always do. (I never change anything here "wholesale.") I consolidated and expanded on some of the sources for pages that already existed, especially adding the full text from the Baton Rouge diocesan volumes. (Right now, I'm in the middle of also adding images of obits and other items gleaned from the newspapers for some of those people.) I don't ordinarily completely remove sources unless they're meaningless -- people posting personal reference numbers created by their own desktop software and so on, which mean nothing to any other user. But on any page, any user can roll back an edit to the previous (or any earlier) version; it's under "History" in the menu on the left. Can you give me an example of a page where there's a problem? I try to leave other people's sources alone, unless I have a more complete version of whatever they cited. --MikeTalk 10:48, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

George Washington Bryant [1 September 2019]

Hi my name is Mary. I recently did my dna and discovered that George Bryant is my great great grandfather. His daughter Mary Ann (Mollie) is my great grandmother. I was wondering if you had information on who George's parents were. I am running into walls everywhere. Rumer has it that his mom was Nancy Hawkins and dad was Frederick Chavis. supposedly Frederick was a house slave? any response would be appreciated. My email is 20:04, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank You [4 September 2019]

Thank you for responding! I will look over your information on the Van Winkles. I'm new to all this so I hope I can follow along. lol--Mary53 15:20, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

WeRelate and Flash - and lack of leadership [7 March 2020]

Hi Mksmith, I have given up on WeRelate except for keeping an eye on Watercooler and Support Talk via email alerts. I still have a grain of hope that somehow WeRelate can get the overdue complete re-coding it requires! So, I am pleased to see your contributions on the subject.

A previous (lengthy) discussion can be found on Support Talk by searching with the first 2 letters of my user name: 'hw'. As someone said, the topic comes around something like once a year! Nothing has been done, so far, to avert disaster.

--Helen-HWMT 18:19, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

FTE replacement [5 September 2020]

Hi, Mike

You seem to be the only one who was particularly interested in the list view in FTE. I've coded a replacement for it in the sandbox and was wondering if you could take a look at it and let me know what you think. The functionality is complete (although there are complementary enhancements I want to make), but I want to fix up the formatting a bit.

To look at it, sign in to with user Test1, password testexplore, and go to MyRelate > Manage Trees. Select the "explore" link beside TestTree (the one with 50 pages).

If you get a chance to check it out tomorrow (Wed Aug 26), the sandbox is likely to be stable, since I won't be doing any coding and testing there. After that, it will likely be unstable from time to time - just let me know if you want a window of time to check it out.

If this is more or less what you were looking for, let me know. If you can think of something that will make it better, let me know that too. My coding skills are limited, so I can't do anything that looks a lot like the existing FTE, but I think this works not too bad.-- Janet (DataAnalyst 00:26, 26 August 2020 (UTC))

Hi, Mike. The changes have been deployed to production. See also the status note I just added to the Watercooler.--DataAnalyst 19:04, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Red River History & Genealogy [17 September 2020]

I have been studying the Red River County Texas area and my genealogy related to that area and I would really LOVE to talk with you! I am not familiar with how this website works or how this messenger works, will you please email me at ?--Cateb 14:54, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Dean family in Red River County [7 December 2020]

I have an ancestor, Levi Dean, who spent time in Red River County during the 1830s, 40s, and 50s before moving on to California. He turns up in the 1860 Federal census of Tulare County, California, and that is where he dies in 1864. The problem I'm working on is determining who his father was, that is, through primary source evidence rather than family history records on Ancestry. Other sources say his father was Jesse Dean who came to Red River County in the 1830s from Arkansas. Would you have anything in your research about the Dean family? Thanks for any help or direction you can give me. All the best, Mike Call--Lemartelleur 23:24, 7 December 2020 (UTC)