User talk:JBS66/Archive 8

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Rinskje Gerbens Boersma [8 January 2013]

Ouders: Gerben Sybrens Boersma en Grietje Pieters Dijkstra.

Kind nr. 4 = Rinskje Boersma 24.10.1818 = double

Kind nr. 5 = Rinskje Gerbens Boersma 24.10.1818 this is the right one to stay in the family.

The 2 names were already there.

Can you please remove child nr. 4 - I really don't know how, sorry. Looked at comparing, looked at speedy delete, but none of the instructions are clear to me. Maybe you can explain to me exactly how this removal works?

Thank you Jenifer, kind regards..--Beatrijs 00:48, 4 January 2013 (EST)

Sorry for the delay in my response! I merged the two pages for Rinskje Boersma into: Person:Rinskje Boersma (1). Merging duplicates is preferred to deletion.
How the merging works:
  • Admin>Compare pages
  • Enter each of the page titles in the Compare People fields. The person page titles appear in bold at the top of person pages and look like this: Person:Rinske Boersma (5)
  • Press the Compare button
  • Compare the columns of data, scroll to the bottom and press the Prepare to merge button
  • Underneath each name is a small round "radio button". The name that has the button filled in will be used as the primary spelling and page title of the merged pages. This part is really not intuitive!
  • Next to each data item is a box. If the box is checked, the data will be merged into the new page. If the box is not checked, the data will not appear on the new page. For example, if the death date says only Description: Y, this can be unchecked since it is not necessary. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:51, 8 January 2013 (EST)

Assertions Suggestion [13 January 2013]

I saw you on the watch list for this suggestion, but I just wanted to let you know that it seems to be approaching a state of initial readiness. While Robert.shaw and I have taken the view that its legitimate to make use these on an experimental/demonstration basis without any special consent, the value in these would really come from them being a community standard. Please let us know if there's a procedure to follow moving forward. Thanks! --jrm03063 16:01, 6 January 2013 (EST)

I will bring this up to the Overview Committee soon. --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:19, 10 January 2013 (EST)
Thanks! --jrm03063 17:22, 10 January 2013 (EST)

There are a few ideas for moving forward with making the Assertions a community standard. The first would be to come up with a plan for moving the text/examples to an appropriate Help page. Do you think it should be a standalone page, or included on another Help page, where do you think it should be placed? Secondly, you & your team could bring this up on the Watercooler informing users of the new features that are available for use. You could also mention that if users have questions about the new templates, they could post on the "insert title of" new Help page. How does that sound to you? --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:45, 13 January 2013 (EST)

Sounds reasonable. We'll get back to you! --jrm03063 15:06, 13 January 2013 (EST)

family Pieter Vogelzang en Reinouw Bil [8 January 2013]

Good morning Jennifer,

would you mind having a look at the children of the above couple. They seem to be all entered twice: once without patronym and once with the patronym. I followed up the ones with a patronym and hope that you can remove the doubles. Thanks so much, kind regards from--Beatrijs 18:54, 7 January 2013 (EST)

Hi Beatrijs, I merged the pages for Taetske and Houkje. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:03, 8 January 2013 (EST)

Thanks Jennifer, there is still one child to be merged: see Gatske (Gaatske) Pytters Vogelsang into Gatske Pieters Vogelzang. I think that she is the last one :-)

I tried to compare Gatske, but after entering both names, it says: pages not found. I must do something wrong here, because both names do exist.

Ok somehow I succeeded, but now it seems that I have duplicate parents. I compared them, checked all the relevant boxes, but when I wanted to merge them, it said: check "match" under the family name. Where is that supposed to be done? Thanks Jennifer.

Sorry for stepping on your merges; I noticed that there were duplicate parents only visible from Gatske's page and I went ahead and fixed them. --Pkeegstra 17:04, 8 January 2013 (EST)
P.S. I can't find the wedding for Pieter and Reinouw, either before 1811 or after.

Thank you kindly! I am still looking for their marriage as well. Beatrijs


Current block user protocol [17 January 2013]

Hi Jennifer,

What's the current protocol on blocking users for inappropriate material? This page is both inconsistent and ancient -- it says just add the template, but only block the user on the second offense, but both templates say the IP address has been blocked for a month. User in question is User:Dungmongmanh. Thanks.--Amelia 00:10, 16 January 2013 (EST)

I block users who post link-spam infinitely (by blocking their username, not their IP address). I've seen other users block for a month - but then I've also seen spammers return after a month to repost spam. Dallan once said that if it's clear they only signed up to post spam, they can be blocked infinitely and their user/user talk page deleted. I'll make a note to talk to the Overview Committee about coming up with an updated policy. btw, I went ahead and blocked this user. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:28, 16 January 2013 (EST)
Thanks!--Amelia 10:32, 17 January 2013 (EST)

early dutch immigrants (Bef 1700) [21 January 2013]

Hi, do you anyone who is (actively) working on the early Dutch Immigrants? I have a theory about a settler which I would like to discuss Person talk:Joosten van Aerdsdalen (1)--henk 10:11, 21 January 2013 (EST)


Family Search Trees [23 January 2013]

Not seeking another database myself, but I've noticed someone making use of a Family Search tree on Wales. The address of one individual being:

http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I24549&tree=Welsh

I've skimmed some of it, and it's much better than some I've seen. How does this fit into the source/reference universe as presently conceived?

--jrm03063 18:49, 22 January 2013 (EST)

My belief is that we'd address this source in a similar way that we addressed Source:RootsWeb's WorldConnect Project and Source:Ancestry.com - Ancestry World Tree. They contain user/community submitted trees that have varying degrees of accuracy. A user would cite the main source in the Title field, and add either a text description of the specific database/page - or a link to the webpage. We would not create source pages for each individual community tree. That being said, since this is a Source-related question, I would suggest that you leave a message on the Source patrol talk page for their input. --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:27, 23 January 2013 (EST)

WeRelate page Family:Engel Dik and Anna Huizinga (1) has been changed by JBS66 [23 January 2013]

After I entered correct information on my father's brothers and sisters, JNS66 removed it again. Why that happened?--Hanno 14:51, 23 January 2013 (EST)


WeRelate page Family:Dirk Dik and Anneke Mostert (1) has been changed by JBS66 [23 January 2013]

JBS66 removed my information! So now my father and mother don't seem to have had me ... JBS66, please tell me what I do wrong???--Hanno 14:54, 23 January 2013 (EST)

Hello Hanno,
Pages for people who are still living are not allowed on WeRelate due to privacy concerns. You had entered children for Dirk Dik and Johanna Mostert (son born 11081962 and daughter born 29051958). I first added a template to the pages informing of WeRelate's policy and asking you to either add death dates or delete the pages. This is the same reason that I removed the children for Engel Dik and Anna Huizinga.
If these people are no longer living, you can add them - along with their death dates. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:17, 23 January 2013 (EST)

merging marriage events [1 February 2013]

Is it possible to merge marriage pages? Or do I have to request a speedy delete to remove an incorrect marriage? I have already merged the incorrect individual and moved the daughter to the correct marriage/family page.--Renee Dauven 12:54, 1 February 2013 (EST)

solved it (I Hope ;-) --henk 13:56, 1 February 2013 (EST)


Thanks for helping with the merge Henk. Renee, yes, you can merge Family pages. There are a couple of ways to do this: Click on More>Find Duplicates from the family page. If a Person page displays both sets of duplicate parents (like after a merge of an individual), you can go to More>Compare Parents. I find the easiest way is to go to Admin>Compare pages and enter each page title into the fields. --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:44, 1 February 2013 (EST)


import Gedcom [2 February 2013]

Hi Jennifer

Iam trying to upload a gedcom repairing the errors, but the only thing that happens is that the warning level rises.

Tjisse--Tp 10:59, 2 February 2013 (EST)


Where should I call to read? [7 February 2013]

Hi Jennifer, Where should I call to read? (Waar moet ik de bel laten luiden?) Groet, --Lidewij 13:06, 3 February 2013 (EST)

Hi Lidewij, I am now watching that talk page and responded there. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:23, 7 February 2013 (EST)

Flatlands Dutch Reformed Church Cemetery [9 February 2013]

can you help me with this one?: Place:Churchyard Of Dutch Reformed Church, New Amersfoort, Kings, New York, United States I want to edit and change it

[1]

--henk 13:25, 9 February 2013 (EST)

I created this page: Place:Flatlands Dutch Reformed Church Cemetery, Brooklyn, Kings, New York, United States. You can use the "pipe" to indicate what it was called at the time of the burial (ie, if it was in New Amersfoort). --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:13, 9 February 2013 (EST)

deleting family page [9 February 2013]

How can I ddelete this one? Family:Symon Van Arsdalen and Marretje Ammerman (1)


--henk 13:58, 9 February 2013 (EST)

You can mark the page for Speedy Delete (instructions on that page). If the page is a duplicate, it is usually preferable to merge them instead of deleting. --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:23, 9 February 2013 (EST)


it's wrong she was married to both father and son on the same date ;-)


Good eye [17 February 2013]

Thanks on Person:Peter Tinkham (1). Been working in the 18th century a lot lately. :-) --Jrich 11:43, 17 February 2013 (EST)


Sorting out the Source (Canadian Headstones) [18 February 2013]

Thanks. My brain was definitely not in gear when I went to do it for myself. I can now add a short description--and use the whole thing as a model for another Ontario gravestone source that needs doing. At last count there are three online Ontario gravestone sources in addition to Find-A-Grave. One, yet to be dealt with, is also an index of Canadian cemeteries.

--goldenoldie 08:58, 18 February 2013 (EST)


deleted photo backup? [18 February 2013]

Dear Jennifer, I hope you are well. After having removed my tree some time ago, I noticed uploaded photos had not disappeared. There was one photo called "Van Ophem-Wassenberg 50 jaar kinderen partners kleinkinderen vijfhuizerdijk" on the page of which I specified all or almost all the names of the people shown. My grandmother (87) managed to remember these. Unfortunately I found out that the photos were removed later and I do not have a copy of the list of names. Do you know if any back up copy of the relevant WR page may exist? Do you think that an administrator could look this up? Many thanks.--Govegus 16:00, 18 February 2013 (EST)

There are a few photos that have not been deleted, you can find them by clicking on this link.
It looks like you originally uploaded them as "review needed" which used to prompt an administrator to leave a message on the image's talk page (like this) (this process has since changed and images no longer have that review needed option). You later changed them to fair use so they will not be deleted. If you plan to keep the photos on WR, you may want to click on the Watch link on each of those image pages.
If there are other photos that you think have been deleted, just let me know and I can look into that for you. Kind regards, --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:14, 18 February 2013 (EST)

Great, thanks! No need to remove them, they might well suit someone else's needs.--Govegus 16:37, 18 February 2013 (EST)


Special wedding [22 feb 2013]

Family:Johannes Saul and Anna Flath (1) --Lidewij 14:52, 22 February 2013 (EST)

That looks to have been the result of an incorrect merge years ago. I separated the spouses of Person:Johannes Saul (16) and put the children back in their "pre-merge" families. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:25, 22 February 2013 (EST)
Simple maintenance can I do myself. Problem cases where I feel insecure, I prefer to yours. Groet, --Lidewij 15:50, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Connection lost [23 February 2013]

Hi Jennifer

Some how the following person http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Person:Ritske_de_Vries_%283%29&action=edit lost connection with his parents. Maybe a bug.

Greetz Tjisse--Tp 12:32, 23 February 2013 (EST)


Hi Tjisse, the parents were still there - but the Leeuwarder Courant link was so long that you needed to scroll the screen to the right a lot. I simplified the LC link on that page. LC links look like this:

You can copy just the first part of the URL - up to the first & sign and it will work ok (so http://www.archiefleeuwardercourant.nl/vw/article.do?id=FRI-19520509-3020), though I always check to be sure. --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:40, 23 February 2013 (EST)


Thank You--Tp 13:16, 23 February 2013 (EST)


compare? [24 February 2013]

Person:Balthasar Baijardt (1) with Person:Balthazaer Bayard (1)?--henk 04:29, 24 February 2013 (EST)

They were the same person, so I merged their pages. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:43, 24 February 2013 (EST)
-)

Jan Mangelse and Tryntje Roll.ged [27 February 2013]

Thanks for looking. I did not mean to exclude any of the people. If the data is still there, import all. If not, then delete. My progress is slow here. Thank you again. whroll 10:54, 27 February 2013 (EST)

You are welcome. I imported the file. Please note one item - on the page for Jan Mangels Rol, he has residence and land data listed well after his death date. --Jennifer (JBS66) 11:12, 27 February 2013 (EST)

Removed speedy delete tags [17 March 2013]

Hey, just wanted to say thanks for checking some of those 'livings' that I tagged with speedy delete. I was looking for something else and I found a ton of them, I thought I might help a little. I am working on some other things or I might volunteer for that project.

Generally speaking though, isnt the burden of proof (that a person isnt living) on the person whos page it is? Its nice that you went the extra mile to double check them, though I think there are simply too many Living _____ pages left to check them all.--Daniel Maxwell 21:18, 27 February 2013 (EST)

Thank you for marking Living pages for SD. I agree, there are far too many to check them all! I delete the Living Person pages that contain no birth/marriage/death dates without hesitation. When I have extra time, I try to check a few Family pages where one spouse was born in the early 1900's or before and the other spouse is marked as Living. Often, they are not living, and if I can quickly find the proof, I prefer to add that information and retain the Family page. --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:08, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

Automatic Categories or not? [28 February 2013]

I really would like to move past "maybe" on this question. Thanks! --jrm03063 12:18, 28 February 2013 (EST)

I don't have any more information at this point. It will be a few weeks before the Overview Committee discusses this again. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:40, 28 February 2013 (EST)
I see. Then I won't be paring back my working documents for the present. --jrm03063 15:59, 28 February 2013 (EST)

The right tool [5 mrt 2013]

Jennifer, there is a problem in Hungary.
Place:Gömör, Hungary should be renamed to Place:Gömör-Kishont, Hungary (the places must move along), but there is already a Place:Gömör-Kishont, Hungary. I have not moved, so you can see the old situation. You have the right tool to fix this. Groet, Lidewij 05:08, 2 March 2013 (EST)

Responded at Place patrol --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:16, 5 March 2013 (EST)
Jennifer, dankjewel. --Lidewij 08:34, 5 March 2013 (EST)

GEDCOM file [8 March 2013]

Beste Jennifer,

Bedankt voor je reactie, de errors komen voornamelijk omdat ik gisteren mijn eigen database het gemerged met die van een ver familielid, van zijn systeem komen ook al die _NEW tags helaas. En waarschijnlijk ook de dubbelen personen, was er al eens door heen gelopen maar blijkbaar deze "fouten" over het hoofd gezien. Zodra ik weer even tijd vrij heb zal ik dit dan ook even aanpassen en weer opnieuw aanbieden. De lijst bestaat nu uit bijna 11.000 personen dus er gaat nog wel even wat arbeid inzitten om dit allemaal correct op deze site te krijgen :)

Groeten,

Michael--Stender 07:27, 7 March 2013 (EST)


Jennifer, what went wrong with my GEDCOM upload of ±5 hours back? --Lidewij 09:24, 8 March 2013 (EST)

It may be that Dallan needs to "restart" the GEDCOM uploader. I'll send him an email. Thank you for letting me know. --Jennifer (JBS66) 09:27, 8 March 2013 (EST)

Volunteer [9 March 2013]

Hello My name is Christine and I am new to this page. I would like to help in anyway i can I recently in 2011 graduated from BU Collage for Genealogical Research. If I can be of assistance to you please do not hesitate to call on me.

Thank You Christine--Chris 15:07, 8 March 2013 (EST)

Hi Chris, thank you for your offer. There are a number of different types of volunteer opportunities at WeRelate. You can click on the Volunteer link in the top menu bar which will bring you to a page with more information. These opportunities are generally more site maintenance related (such as welcoming new users or patrolling newly added pages). We also have a Brick Walls page for users who are requesting research assistance. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:33, 9 March 2013 (EST)

Taetske Louws Jansma born 27 JAN 1869 [15 March 2013]

Jennifer, I found the following record on internet and I was wondering if this is the same Taetske as above : http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsln=Jansma&db=nypl&gss=angs-d&_82004210=Amsterdam%2c+Netherlands&pcat=40&fh=3&h=8493259&recoff=10 New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Taetske L Jansma Name: Taetske L Jansma Arrival Date: 1 Dec 1890 Birth Date: abt 1868 Age: 22 Gender: Female Ethnicity/ Nationality: Dutch Place of Origin: Holland, Netherlands Port of Departure: Amsterdam, Netherlands and Boulogne Sur Mer, France Destination: Chicago, Illinois Port of Arrival: New York, New York Ship Name: Amsterdam Search Ship Database: Search the Amsterdam in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database Is there a way to find out if we are talking about the same person? --BenS 07:35, 14 March 2013 (EDT)


Hi Ben, I can't find more information on this particular passenger record. I am trying to follow a potential lead - but I'm not at all sure if this is the same person:

Name: 	Jessie Jansma
Age: 	22 [abt 1869]
Gender: 	Female
Marriage Type: 	Marriage
Marriage Date: 	13 Jul 1891
Marriage Place: Cook, Illinois
Spouse Name: 	Cornielius A. Lieste
Spouse Age: 	30 [abt 1861]
Spouse Gender: 	Male
FHL Film Number: 	1030204


Name: 	Louis Leiste
Birth Date: 	12 May 1894
Birth Place: 	Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Ethnicity: 	American
Gender: 	Male
Race: 	White
Father Name: 	Cornelius A Leiste
Father's Birth Place: 	Holland
Father's Age: 	32
Mother Name: 	Jessie Jansma
Mother's Birth Place: 	Holland
FHL Film Number: 	1287740 
--Jennifer (JBS66) 09:38, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

Jennifer, I have my doubts about this Jessie and Taetske. In the meantime I have found info that she went from Leeuwarden to Haarlem on the 18th of March 1890 and I know that she arrived there on the 20th. But I do not know waht she did after the 20th so my search will go on. --BenS 11:06, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

I have my doubts as well. I did add a page for this family on WR, just to piece together these clues Family:Cornelius Alderlieste and Jessie Jansma (1) --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:47, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

Did Taetske travel alone?, or did she accompenie someone ( a farmersfamily f.i.) Is there known family who migrated?--henk 15:01, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

I believe she traveled alone. The people listed directly next to her on the ship register are different families going to different locations. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:49, 15 March 2013 (EDT)
I found a Cornelis Alderliefste from Terschelling of matching birthdate..... --Pkeegstra 16:04, 15 March 2013 (EDT)
Great, thank you for finding that! --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:45, 15 March 2013 (EDT)

Your message on my page of 9 March 2013 [22 March 2013]

I apologize for not seeing and responding in a timely way to your message of 9 Mar 2013. I think I have responded to the matter at hand there and elsewhere, and at length. Please advise if you continue to hold those views respecting my efforts, as I think they are, at best, incorrect. When I have the opportunity, I plan to re-write that suggestion to reflect my current practices so that the discussion can move forward for purposes of periods before about 1400, by which time I think practice is settled. I do not expect the rewrite to touch upon the area of patronyms generally - inclusion of such in the original suggestion was an after thought. I assure you that, unlike the medieval spaces where I have modest interest, I have ZERO interest in patronymics outside the medieval period.

Beyond that, I would only reiterate that the suggestion I offered was in an attempt to figure out what a reasonable practice might be. I am now, and was then, very glad to hear responses that guide the discussion usefully. I do not have any personal investment in any particular practice, other than having a desire for there to actually be a practice, so that I can have some hope of working in my wide area of interest without causing offense. I find it ironic in the extreme, that my effort to engage discussion on practice and experiment with developing such would - itself - seem to have given offense. Strange. --jrm03063 11:39, 22 March 2013 (EDT)

My opinion is that your approach has appeared to be one of "here are my suggestions" - and then when users expressed concern about your suggestions, you proceeded to tell them why you were right and continued along with your process. Some users even commented that your actions were disruptive - but you continued along saying that you could change it back if need be. A better approach might have been to work collaboratively with other users to develop agreeable guidelines BEFORE you plowed though changing hundreds of pages.
Your contributions towards de-duping the medieval space on WR has been important. I get the impression from your recent comments that you are coming to a point with these pages that may be uncomfortable for you. You are looking for firm guidelines on how to proceed. I can understand that. However, even if we do create guidelines about what types of names go where, I fear it won't be detailed enough for you. We won't create a one-size-fits-all definition of "surname". I also believe we wouldn't advocate a different set of guidelines for specific "Noble Houses".
What I can do is bring this up on the Watercooler within the next few days. I'd like to present a rough draft of guidelines along with some examples and ask for user feedback. Does that seem fair? --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:38, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
That would be at once unnecessary and premature. Discussion is occurring, people are making themselves heard, the original idea has very plainly been rejected, and new ideas are taking shape. Those too will morph until something that strikes the right balance of ease of use with accurate representation is reached and agreed to. I would say that my scope no longer include people living later than 1400 - so if you're planning to offer something respecting modern societies that don't use an inheriting last-as-surname - by all means proceed - but I don't know why you would want to offer something on the watercooler until it has some real work invested and at least a modest number of people who are ready to buy in to it.
I agree that I was a bit short with some folks - but years of toil and community disinterest in these spaces make me wonder why anyone would suddenly both care what I'm doing and have a serious beef with the way I'm doing it. And the circular-thinking latent-insult in the question "why are you removing surnames"! Gad!
I agree that a one-size fits all approach isn't going to work. I also agree that a completely novel approach for each member of any arbitrary category (noble house, date, geographic region - indeed - per individual) will also be unusable.
It appears to me, that there are a small palette of approaches. For the sake of discussion, let's say we have:
  • Modern surname (to include antiquated forms that, never the less, operate like-enough to a modern surname)
  • Patronymic
  • Toponymic
  • Pre-surname (no pattern evident)
There may be others, but I think the useful number will still be of the order of a half dozen.
While naming decisions could be taken on the basis of an individual - assigning each person to one of the palette of groups - I don't think that level of detail is needed. Instead, I do think that assignment of one of these approaches, on a per noble house basis, will work very nicely in the overwhelming majority of cases. In the case of long-lived noble houses, more than one of the forms may appear over the life-span of the house, but its not apt to ever be more (well known noble houses typically don't still exist in their original forms, but rather as subsequent or cadet lines under different names - hence the overall period for a particular named house seems to be quite limited in practice).
Finally, I would give the entire set of practices an escape clause. The practices are NOT guidelines that dictate the forms to use in all cases. Instead, they represent a number of conventions, which should be followed unless some compelling greater good suggests otherwise.
One final thought - while I don't claim any proprietary interest in this content - neither is it fair for others to obstruct work on such a basis. Especially so when they aren't offering relevant contributions or concrete alternatives. I want to engage the wider community on this - but seriously - didn't we long ago settle the question of edit first and do so in good faith - and others should presume such good faith? We know what happens if we wait until permission is obtained - that is - nothing happens. --jrm03063 17:13, 22 March 2013 (EDT)

merging [22 March 2013]

Thanks for getting me the merging privileges. It helps.--Werebear 19:23, 22 March 2013 (EDT)


Since you've mentioned it, there is something you could do... [25 March 2013]

I think an important part of what happened in my situation was that I relied on werelate-specific software behavior (the automatic addition of categories) as reflecting considered policy - in particular - the definition of a surname. I mean, someone had to go out of their way to add that behavior to media wiki, so it would be weird if one were true but not the other. While you did mention - after more than a little while - that the oversight committee might address this - you offered no certainty regarding the outcome and less regarding the time frame. Meanwhile, other members of the community had seized upon my remarks as some sort of cultural inflexibility/insensitivity. I shifted my perspective pretty quickly after that - but a number of folks never seemed to get that.

The most helpful thing that you could do then, is to get the oversight committee to meet sometime soon on this matter, and choose one of the following statements as best representing reality, and publish THAT on the watercooler:

  • The software behavior (category generation) will remain and it reflects established policy regarding the definition of a surname.
  • The software behavior will remain - but there has never been any actual policy regarding the definition of a surname - and we regret that reasonable people could have been confused by this.
  • The software behavior will change - at least in part because it was never intended to establish policy with regard to the definition of a surname - and we regret confusion that the behavior may have caused.

I would request that you do not attempt to create a policy, unless such a policy already exists. My present, painfully acquired understanding, is that there is no policy. I do hope that will be my last surprise on this. Perhaps others can be spared that experience?

For my part, I'm pretty sure that I can make progress regardless of what you do with the matter above, but you did want to help. --jrm03063 19:25, 24 March 2013 (EDT)

The automatic categories no more reflect a "definition" of a surname then do they reflect the "definition" of a place name. I'm sure you've been around WR long enough to be aware that automatic categories are generated from both the Surname and Place fields. The category link will reflect whatever is entered in those fields. It sounds like you are trying to put the blame on me and WeRelate for your misinterpretations. For the record, I did not say that I wanted to help, what I said was "What I can do is bring this up on the Watercooler within the next few days. I'd like to present a rough draft of guidelines along with some examples and ask for user feedback" - to which you replied "That would be at once unnecessary and premature."
I am not going to accept being told to "get the Overview Committee to meet" nor accept a near ultimatum from you along with "apology" text to issue to the public. Most users do not even look at the automatic categories let alone regard those annoying red-links as "policy" about the definition of a surname. --Jennifer (JBS66) 20:34, 24 March 2013 (EDT)
Ok, don't. But please don't accuse me of issuing an ultimatum, because I did not make nor do I offer any threat. I'm offering what I think should be said. I'll take my share of whatever rebuke is offered, but I am disappointed that my motives seemed as much on trial as my methods...and it does seem more than a bit uncharitable to leave me standing alone on something when the behavior of the system sends a pretty clear message. Of course I know what it does - but that's not at all the same thing as why.
If I've misconstrued your words, then I apologize for that.
I am sorry that I suggested that you somehow shouldn't present something. If you think you have something to offer, you should. It couldn't fare worse than my effort! But I'm concerned that what you propose isn't the right next step. Something like this should iterate a few times in a smaller group - before finding its way in front of a wider audience. I'm not saying that any effort should be hidden - not at all - but going to the widest possible group seems like what you do when you're mostly done and looking to get a final sign-off. Don't you need to start in a smaller group of rather more interested contributors - iterate at least a few times - give everyone a whack at the document and whatever it proposes - and THEN go to the wider forum as a final acceptance/sign-off?
Besides a number of interesting negative results, there are a few things that I've learned that I really hope will feed into the next step. The key one at this stage - deal with the most general situation first - then the next - and so on. WeRelate has guidelines for simple inheriting family names - which is the most general situation. Modern patronymics, which I guess you regularly work with, seem like they would be both larger in scope and more reliable than what might be found in the ancient spaces.
So I strongly suggest, that you join with a handful of folks, who work in that area already, and work up practices for modern patronymic surnames. Specifically set aside the ancient spaces for the moment (perhaps a "curfew" of 1400AD?) - and just do justice to the modern part (perhaps it will help that this is an area in which I'm not interested).
After that, the ancient spaces can be re-visited again, by first trying to take as much as we can from the approaches for the two general surname styles. I've already found, in reconsidering what I've been doing with medieval people who have proto-surnames (toponyms that repeat with some degree of regularity, if imperfectly), is that the ordinary rules for inheriting surnames actually do mostly work. There will be a couple of tweaks that will be appropriate, but it's much less of a ground zero effort than I had first suspected. Hopefully, the ancient spaces just become a place where a couple of allowances are added above and beyond the techniques used in the modern spaces.
I hope this explanation makes some sense... --jrm03063 00:56, 25 March 2013 (EDT)

Person:Anna Reiding (1) [26 March 2013]

Hallo Jennifer. Dat was en foutje van mij. Bedankt voor de correctie. Heb ik het goed begrepen dat je weer naar Fryslân komt ?. Groet Herman--herman34 19:16, 25 March 2013 (EDT)

Graag gedaan. Ja, ja - ik kom naar Fryslân 15 Mei - 19 Juni :-) Ik kan niet wachten!! --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:25, 26 March 2013 (EDT)

Tietje Hansma = Douwe Bijlsma [26 March 2013]

Hi Jennifer, I am searching to find the indicated marriage of the above couple. You found their marriage of 12.5.1923 in Leeuwarderadeel, but I really cannot find it. As I want to give the exact data to a familymember in Canada, I would appreciate if you could make a printscreen for me. (I look probably with my nose:-)) Thank you Jennifer..--Beatrijs 02:28, 26 March 2013 (EDT)

Hi Beatrijs, The marriages for 1923-32 are not indexed yet, nor are they available on AlleFriezen. The book is available on FamilySearch, and the scan for their marriage is here. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:28, 26 March 2013 (EDT)

Thanks Jennifer!


Are these two the same person? [28 March 2013]

Gerben Ruurds van der Woude (3) is married to the mother of the daugher-in-law of Gerben Ruurds van der Woude (11). I'd merge them in a heartbeat except the earlier marriage says "van Ferwerd" and not "van Buitenpost". What do you think?

Unfortunately, Gerben has no readily locatable Memories van Successie..... --Pkeegstra 20:00, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

Please note that I did merge several occurrences of Grietje Tijssens; they all had marriage records "van Hantum". Unfortunately, I just can't seem to find a death record for her. Found one in Groningen, but it's definitely someone else. --Pkeegstra 15:44, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

But I did just find the Memories for Grietje Tijssens.... --Pkeegstra 20:06, 27 March 2013 (EDT)

Meulenbrugge [30 March 2013]

hi

I joined WeRelate yesterday and entered info last night. Looking at the e-mails that I have got back from you, I think the only change you have made is altering my father's information with his name change. Is that correct. I find reading the e-mails trying to figure out the changes made difficult to work out. Was there any other info changed with the data that I entered. My father did not change his name until 1973, hence my baby brother Robert Paul is still a Meulenbrugge and was never known as 'Miller'. Do I need to record somewhere as well that my mother Hedwig Boonstra also had her surname altered to Miller?--IngridM 00:26, 30 March 2013 (EDT)


Meulenbrugge [30 March 2013]

hi

I joined WeRelate yesterday and entered info last night. Looking at the e-mails that I have got back from you, I think the only change you have made is altering my father's information with his name change. Is that correct. I find reading the e-mails trying to figure out the changes made difficult to work out. Was there any other info changed with the data that I entered. My father did not change his name until 1973, hence my baby brother Robert Paul is still a Meulenbrugge and was never known as 'Miller'. Do I need to record somewhere as well that my mother Hedwig Boonstra also had her surname altered to Miller?--IngridM 00:26, 30 March 2013 (EDT)


Klaas Talsma and sibling references [2 April 2013]

Thank you, JBS66, for taking the time to look at my first additions as a new member to WeRelate. I appreciate that you added the references and make a couple of date corrections. I have some learning to do to use WeRelate correctly and precisely, but it looks to be a vast resource of help for genealogy.--Mcremer 10:16, 2 April 2013 (EDT)


New user [10 avril 2013]

Thanks for your answer here. My english is very very bad. I am searching a community genealogy site since 10 years. I need a website as WeRelate. The big problem is the language, for me and many french speaking genealogists. I began my genealogy in 1988 and I am using "Brother's Keeper" since 1992. I was seduced by "Rodovid" and worked really a lot of time since June 2008. But I gave up : The site get better very (too) slowly and a french user - who ignored really all in genealogy - became an administrator. He is playing the dictator. He deleted a lot of contributions of users who prouved that his remarks and modifications were very stupid. WeRelate works exactly as Wikipedia and ... Rodovid. I think, it's possible to give WeRelate french pages. It will take many time, indeed. We need only to modify/complete this page. I modified/translated the same page on Rodovid. So, possible with WeRelate ? It should be better as to have only a "french portal". Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 03:07, 10 April 2013 (EDT)

Your English is fine, I understand your comments perfectly :-)
Let me ask you a question: Does Rodovid have one page per person or are there separate language pages for the same person? For example, is the data (birth/death/marriage dates) the same for English and French? --Jennifer (JBS66) 11:55, 10 April 2013 (EDT)
Yes. Rodovid has only one number per person in his database. The different pages (eventually in different languages) are only "layers" for the screen of the contributors. For your example, the "number" is 29818. The dates and events are the same. Only the comments and notes/references can be different. Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 13:07, 10 April 2013 (EDT)

Petite bibliothèque généalogique [13 April 2013]

Thank you, Jennifer ! I done this too speedy ... I could see it myself ! Sorry ! But I cannot delete with your process (go to More>Delete) : a click on "more" gives only these 2 possibilities to me ... Email this page and Imprimer. Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 11:54, 13 April 2013 (EDT)

Yes ... nothing to do to delete ! so I bleached the page, that it's now blank ! Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 12:07, 13 April 2013 (EDT)
Ah, ok - I deleted the page for you. --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:48, 13 April 2013 (EDT)

Renaming impossible [13 avril 2013]

The right typo ist "Hornoy-le-Bourg". Getty error with "Hornoy-le Boug". I modified (renamed) once to add the "r" in the word "Bourg". But I didn't see the other forgotten "-" before "Bourg". And WR refuses now a second renaming. Can you do that, here ? Thanks. Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 15:37, 13 April 2013 (EDT)

The page would not rename because there was a duplicate place page with that new name Place:Hornoy-le-Bourg, Somme, France. I "redirected" the page for Hornoy-le Boug to Place:Hornoy-le-Bourg, Somme, France. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:44, 13 April 2013 (EDT)
Thanks ! Is it usefull to keep this "bad" page with a "redirect" ? Better to delete ?
One more time, an error by Getty who knows "nothing" about France (Wikipedia is better !) : Le Tréport is in Seine-Maritime and not in Somme ! I type the right department ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 15:52, 13 April 2013 (EDT)
Impossible for me to find where I can modify ... the department written on this page. Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 15:59, 13 April 2013 (EDT)

[13 April 2013]

Yes, I've been to Friesland in 1997 and this time am going armed with information! I know there are a lot of Steringas buried in Westergeest cemetary. I had hoped to get a B&B in that area so I could take my time exploring the cemetery, but no luck so far. I intend to check out Westergeest again, Oudwoude and Kollemerland. I will be in that area approximately May 8, 9 and 10. It would be funny to bump into you there! Is your husband a Steringa?

Elizabeth--Ereemeyer 16:02, 13 April 2013 (EDT)

Have you tried de Oare Keamer in Kollum? If you click on the NL flag, then on Beschikbaarheid, it will bring up a calendar search for availability (it works in Firefox but not Chrome). I have not stayed here, but it was on my list of possibilities for my trip last year.
No, my husband is not a Steringa, he is a Swart. I won't arrive in Friesland until after May 15th, but you are welcome to e-mail me (via more>email this user) if you have questions. Have a great trip!! --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:21, 13 April 2013 (EDT)

Village >> Inhabited place [15 April 2013]

Jennifer, Village gives Inhabited place. ? Groet, --Lidewij 11:17, 15 April 2013 (EDT)

  • [[Place:Hescamps-Saint-Clair,_Somme,_France|
Yes. Apparently, "City", "Town", "Village", "Community", "City or Town", "Town or Village", or "Inhabited place" are all listed under the general heading of "Inhabited place" on the "parent" page. See this topic for more information. --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:32, 15 April 2013 (EDT)
Thanks! I had wondered about that myself, but wasn't sure how to start researching it. --Pkeegstra 13:45, 15 April 2013 (EDT)

German placenames [17 April 2013]

Example: Köln The preferred name is Köln Koln so it would be Koln, NordRhein-Westfalen, Germany (I imagine)

So my place Arkel would be Arkel, Hoogstede, Emlichheim, Graftschaft Bentheim, Niedersachsen, Germany? --henk 13:16, 16 April 2013 (EDT)

Henk, at the moment Germany is taken care of, everything of themselves eg Prussia of 1900. (parts are all correct) Because the Getty used, came from Germany now in the database. The Getty has errors. All those places in Germany now redirects.--Lidewij 13:35, 16 April 2013 (EDT)
Henk, wanneer Duitsland onder handen genomen wordt, komt alles van zelf in bv. Pruisen van 1900. (delen zijn al juist) Doordat ook de Getty gebruikt is, kwam het Duitsland van nu in de data base. De Getty heeft schrijffouten. Al die plaatsen van Duitsland nu worden redirects. Groet, Lidewij 13:35, 16 April 2013 (EDT)
Please, Nor should react Jennifer. (Verder mag Jennifer reageren) --Lidewij 13:42, 16 April 2013 (EDT)

Hoi Lidewij, ik had er al stiekem op gehoopt/gerekend dat jij zou reageren ;-) Ben jij met Duitsland bezig? en mag ik de plaatsen die ik tegenkom wel alvast aanpassen? groetjes --henk 13:45, 16 April 2013 (EDT)

Jennifer: I'm not going to translate this :-)

De Gedcom van HJKrull uit 2009 heeft in alle Duitse plaatsen de postcode opgenomen, af en toe pak ik een paar dozijn om in het gareel te zetten. Voel je niet bezwaard. Er zijn er nog een paar miljoen te gaan. Aan genealogie kom ik bijna niet toe. Dit ken je?
Google map schrijft Köln Groet, --Lidewij 14:10, 16 April 2013 (EDT)

Arkel, Hoogstede, Emlichheim, Graftschaft Bentheim, Niedersachsen, Germany seems to contain way too many levels. In the U.S. for example, a hamlet may be in the jurisdiction of another town, but we would not title a page Hamlet, Town, County, State, United States. We keep the U.S. to 4 levels and do Hamlet, County, State, United States. According to Place:Germany:

"The goal at WeRelate is to title German places as they were around 1900:

  • Town, historical kreis, historical stadt, Germany
  • For locations in Preußen: town, historical kreis, historical province, Preußen, Germany
  • title German places according to their former (German Empire) state when it is known, with also-located-in links to the modern state when it is known." --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:05, 16 April 2013 (EDT)

Arkel, Emlichheim, Niedersachsen, Germany ? --henk 14:09, 16 April 2013 (EDT)

Place:Arkel, Hannover, Preußen, Germany--Lidewij 14:14, 16 April 2013 (EDT)
Other places nearby do follow that format - like Place:Osterwald, Hannover, Preußen, Germany, Place:Ringe, Hannover, Preußen, Germany, and Place:Laar, Hannover, Preußen, Germany. I'm not sure about the historical kreis in Hannover though or where Place:Hoogstede, Weser-Ems, Niedersachsen, Germany fits into this... --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:19, 16 April 2013 (EDT)

Arkel, Hannover, Preußen, Germany it will be! ( In 1900 it was Hannover from 1866-1946) [2] --henk 14:32, 16 April 2013 (EDT)

Arkel, Bentheim, Hannover, Preußen :-)) --Lidewij 14:48, 16 April 2013 (EDT)
How stupid we are, that we do not immediately see that Germany is not listed here belongs. --Lidewij 15:00, 16 April 2013 (EDT)

http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Place%3AArkel%2C_Hannover%2C_Preu%C3%9Fen%2C_Germany&diff=6656595&oldid=210479

When we first make a five steps, we can later remove Germany.--Lidewij 15:43, 16 April 2013 (EDT)

Sleep a night. I think the best is just as in Hungary / Slovakia. First make the two pages and geological location at a later time all at the same succession in 1900 to convert to these pages. In the time between the pages can be linked as, Also located in or see also. It is otherwise too difficult for other users to expect them to perform well in the places.

As in France, the rough classification are ignored.

  • Arkel, Hoogstede, Bentheim, Germany

and

  • Arkel, Bentheim, Preußen, German Reich or Arkel, Bentheim, Hannover, Preußen
--Lidewij 06:00, 17 April 2013 (EDT)
Lidewij, what do you mean by "When we first make a five steps, we can later remove Germany"? --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:31, 17 April 2013 (EDT)

In 1900 there wasn't a country called Germany it was "the German Reich" with the kingdom of Prussia as largest country. We can do it the right way without Germany, because it was not international accepted, but that can give confusion --henk 08:07, 17 April 2013 (EDT) see Place:Germanyor [3]


Other languages ... my big hope [6 May 2013]

Jennifer ! Please see this ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 10:52, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

Jennifer ! Fine ! Thank you ! When I good understand, the propositions of translations have to be progressively "announced" on this page.
  1. We must translate the maximum of pages. It will simply take time !
  2. The most important is all necessary or useful messages to navigation (and all Gedcom tags). Then, all pages explanations, help pages, ...
  3. The titles of Namespaces (Person, Family, User, MySource, Transcript, etc) cannot be translated ? Very strange !... Rodovid did it ! But I may be wrong, we do not think the same thing !
  4. Yes, I am ready to help ... but my english is so poor. We can probably obtain help from User:CTfrog.
  5. I created some months ago this page on Wikipedia-fr : [4] ... and some weeks ago that other page [5] and yesterday [6].
Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 23:07, 5 May 2013 (EDT)
I started the translation/adaptation of some terms/words on the "project page". I'm waiting for the other words. I need to know very exactly what they means (several possibilities). - Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 03:09, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

Categories [6 May 2013]

Hello Jennifer,

I have noticed that none of the new people I have added today are showing up in the various surname categories. Are you aware of any "glitch" in the system today? --Susan Irish 22:16, 5 May 2013 (EDT)

It seems to be the case for other people (added before yesterday). The categorization recently added by me on a lot of people with french surname is no more shown ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 03:02, 6 May 2013 (EDT)
Watercooler#Categories --Lidewij 04:13, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

Hello Susan, Marc, and Lidewij. I responded to these questions here --Jennifer (JBS66) 19:27, 6 May 2013 (EDT)


Translating French [6 May 2013]

Hello Jennifer,

I don't speak french but I want to encourage french participation and so I am keen to help where I can in the french translation. I have recently been chatting with Marc (Markus3) and he pointed me to your message about translating.--JeffreyRLehrer 05:20, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

Hi Jeffrey, thank you for your offer to help! If you'd like, you could add English field labels that appear on WR to WeRelate:Label translations project. The items from drop-down boxes should be listed separately (things like Alt Birth, Census, Education, etc). For example, Education is listed as a drop-down box item, so you would add to the table |Education || || (where the || creates blank boxes ready for translations to be added). If you have any questions at all about this, just let me know. --Jennifer (JBS66) 09:54, 6 May 2013 (EDT)

Old print from Friesland area [22 May 2013]

Jennifer, Both of my parents passed away in the last 9 months. Going through their things we found an old framed print that my sister took it to be appraised and was told it was done in the Netherlands, probably by a Dutch artist about 1870. This fits with my fathers grandfathers family's emigration to the US. I am new to this genealogy world and not familiar with the Netherlands at all. Friesland and Groningen are the location names I am running into on birth and marriage certificates.

My Great, Great Grandfather Jacob van der laan came to the US with his wife (Fettje Poelstra) and 2 daughters (Pieterke and Grietje) around 1870. My Great Grandfather Brugt (Frank) VanderLaan was born in Michigan in 1875.

We have not been able to identify the place in the picture or the artist. Are you familiar with that area, and or do you read Dutch to be able to figure out the signature if I send you a picture? If not, do you have any contacts in that area that may be able to help?

Thanks for any help you can give. Deb--Dmv34l 21:11, 21 May 2013 (EDT)

e-mailed response to user --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:29, 22 May 2013 (EDT)

4 faults in warnings [24 May 2013]

Dear Jennifer

2 faults have to do with one and the same type fault: Isaac Itsak Nathan van Lehr was not born in 190 but in 1690

1 fault in the data of Adelia Adilia Marsé is the birth date 1786 instead of 1796

and Roosje Salomon Stokvis is NOT born in the same year as her husband but birth was approx. 1748


How can we change this without uploading an new Gedcom ?--Redzji 14:07, 24 May 2013 (EDT)


4 faults in warnings [24 May 2013]

Dear Jennifer

2 faults have to do with one and the same type fault: Isaac Itsak Nathan van Lehr was not born in 190 but in 1690

1 fault in the data of Adelia Adilia Marsé is the birth date 1786 instead of 1796

and Roosje Salomon Stokvis is NOT born in the same year as her husband but birth was approx. 1748


One warning should be corrected Eva Sheva Levie was not born in 1657 but approx. 1667


How can we change this without uploading an new Gedcom ?--Redzji 14:10, 24 May 2013 (EDT)


4 faults in warnings [25 May 2013]

Dear Jennifer

2 faults have to do with one and the same type fault: Isaac Itsak Nathan van Lehr was not born in 190 but in 1690

1 fault in the data of Adelia Adilia Marsé is the birth date 1786 instead of 1796

and Roosje Salomon Stokvis is NOT born in the same year as her husband but birth was approx. 1748


One warning should be corrected Eva Sheva Levie was not born in 1657 but approx. 1667

Burrial of Heintje Koe and his death were both in 1882 the date 1881 is wrong

Burrial of Marianne Mirjam Petachya Koe and her death were both in March 1847 the date September is wrong


How can we change this without uploading an new Gedcom ?--Redzji 14:22, 24 May 2013 (EDT)

You can fix these dates by clicking on the person in GEDCOM review and click the Edit link below their name. Then, change the date and press the Save Page button at the bottom of the page. The warnings will not go away - and that is ok. The warnings are only generated when a GEDCOM file is first uploaded.
I returned the file to User review so that you can make these edits and the edits to the names that I wrote you about earlier. --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:55, 25 May 2013 (EDT)

renaming [25 May 2013]

Hi Jennifer, I was more or less aware of the general rule. Not of its strictness. I try to adjust to it as goos as possible. Generally, it is not problematic.

But sometimes it is... The change from patronym to surname was not a sudden one. In the case of Schokland that I'm working on, it was gradual, from about 1750 to about 1850. For individuals it was also not the case that they started using a surname after a certain point in time. Sometimes it was used and sometimes it wasn't. In secondary sources concerning Schokland you will therfore see the use of patronym and surname. An additional reason is that the use of only given + surname or only given name + patronym is not enough for identification and recognition. I've also experienced this myself in searching in WR.

So... I will apply to the rule (one plays along with the system or not...) But I would also like to ask WR to reconsider this rule.

kind regards, Edwin--Bronquest 15:33, 24 May 2013 (EDT)

Hi Edwin,
The search function looks at all of the person name fields, not the page title when returing results. Also, both the page itself and the search results will display the full name(s). The first/last or first/patronymic name rule for titles just helps with consistency.
I can understand the challenge with patronymic vs. surname - and it seems especially challenging in Schokland. The general rule-of-thumb we've been using is if the person used a surname in primary records with some consistency during their lifetime or their death record used a surname, then the page would be titled with a first & surname. Sometimes you'll see a child claiming a parent used a surname well after their death. Since that is less reliable, we usually stick to what is written on records during the person's lifetime. --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:25, 25 May 2013 (EDT)

parents not showing on family pg [28 May 2013]

Jennifer, Can you fix Person:Abigail Mitchell (4) for me? Her parents show on her person page but not on her family page. I saw that you are aware of the problem (suggestion pg) and hoped you might have time to fix this. I tried, but what I tried didn't work and made me hesitant to begin removing folks.--janiejac 09:32, 28 May 2013 (EDT)

Hi Janie, I fixed Abigail's page for you. To fix it, I removed the parents from the page, saved the page, edited it again - putting the parents back in, then saved the page. --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:02, 28 May 2013 (EDT)
That was quick! Thanks so much. --janiejac 10:44, 28 May 2013 (EDT)

Meaning of "#" [29 May 2013]

Hello Jennifer ! Why this adding : http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Person%3AMartin_Laverdure_%281%29&diff=10341440&oldid=4552059 ? Last week I removed 2 or 3 times such a # ... Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 01:33, 29 May 2013 (EDT)

Bonjour Marc. Unfortunately, the # is from an old GEDCOM of mine. It used to indicate end of line ancestors. You are welcome to delete them if you notice it on a page. --Jennifer (JBS66) 04:48, 29 May 2013 (EDT)
OK, thank you ! Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 12:34, 29 May 2013 (EDT)

[1 June 2013]


Main page [3 June 2013]

Hi Jennifer, I noticed your name appearing on the list of oversight committee members. Would you be able to do something about the "news" box on the main page? There are at least three comments on the Watercooler about how embarrassing it is that we have "news" on our Main Page that is coming up to a year old. As an immediate step, I guess the entire box can be removed unless someone wants to add in a new item. I have raised it with another admin but they were reluctant to act. AndrewRT 11:18, 1 June 2013 (EDT)

Hi Andrew, I'm going to leave a message for the Social networking committee. It seems to me that in the long-term, updating WeRelate:Current news would fall within their responsibilities. If you have an interest in creating current news text occasionally, just let me know! --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:49, 2 June 2013 (EDT)
ok thanks. If that doesn't work within a reasonable time, will you remove the box until there is some news to include? AndrewRT 20:08, 2 June 2013 (EDT)

resources page [15 June 2013]

Hi Jennifer (and other watchers of her Talk Page),

I made a [[7]] page with Links and resources with I usually use for my research. and I thought may be you all have similar lists, with links you might want to share about Finding Dutch Migrants.

I heb een [[8]]age gemaakt met Links en Bronnen welke ik gebruik voor mijn onderzoek en dacht dat jullie wellicht ook een dergelijke lijst hebben welke jullie zouden willen delen m.b.t. het vinden van Nederlandse Migranten --henk 09:32, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

Henk, ik heb je pagina bekeken en het ziet er goed uit. Ik neem aan dat het niet alleen gaat om het vinden van Hollandse emigranten? Kan ik bijdragen om jouw lijst uit te breiden? --BenS 10:07, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

Hoi Ben, yes, you can add resources to the list. Since it is currently a User Page, it can't be edited, but you can leave suggestions on the talk page! --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:18, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

Impossible to delete a bad marriage date [21 June 2013]

Jennifer ! How can we remove a bad marriage date which appears on 2 person pages ? The error comes from a "old" gedcom (August 2010). See Person:Sophie Gombert (1) and Person:Alexandre Dewerse (1) - Thank you ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 10:03, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

Oh ! It's now OK ... the "machine" needs only few minutes for a correct display ! Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 10:06, 21 June 2013 (EDT)

Family Pages [23 jun 2013]

I think I've inadvertently messed up a family page. Would you kindly take a look at Josephus Kuyper and Cornelia Keuzenkamp? I started out with the page named as I just gave you. After saving it, I clicked on "rename" and changed it to Josephus Cornelius Hurbertus de Kuyper and Cornelia Keuzenkamp. The blue section didn't change, but the one at the top of the page did. Not until I edited Josephus' person page did the blue section of the family page change. In this case, I set up Josephus' family page before his person page. Sorry for the long-winded description....--Frank 21:46, 22 June 2013 (EDT)


Thought I'd figured it out when the next family page came out looking good. Then came Gerardus Hubertus Keuzenkamp and Adriana Pieternella Verolme whose family page tuned out incorrect I think...--Frank 22:21, 22 June 2013 (EDT)

It appears the page for Gerardus Keuzenkamp and Adriana Verolme started out as Gerardus Keuzenkamp and Unknown before you renamed it. Then, you went in and added the wife to the page. You were correct to rename the page to replace the Unknown, but the form should only include first and last names (not middle). So, the proper title would be just Gerardus Keuzenkamp and Adriana Verolme (note, the system will automatically add the (#) index number to the title). When I say title, that is the text in black at the top of the page. The text in the blue box changes when you edit a page, and that should include a person's full name. I renamed Family:Gerardus Keuzenkamp and Adriana Verolme (2) for you so that you can see the form.
One other thing I noticed on your pages are fields of unnecessary text. Depending upon the software you used to create your GEDCOM, you may be able to suppress export of these notes (such as Changed: Date/Time, Longitude/Latitude, Reference Number). Text such as this can be removed as you work through cleaning up/editing the pages you've imported. If you have any other questions, just let me know! --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:31, 23 June 2013 (EDT)

Thanks for the advice and help, Jennifer. I'll begin the process of cleaning up all that peripheral info you mentioned. Had wondered if my program generated it or if it came from your end. Now I know!--Frank 08:56, 23 June 2013 (EDT)



all of the surname cats will be deleted soon [23 jun 2013]

removing cats because all of the surname cats will be deleted soon

Jennifer, ik denk dat je je vergist. Je vertelde dat de automatische gemaakte categorieën zullen verdwijnen. Mensen vullen de namen bij de foto's niet in omdat ze de foto op een eigen bedacht formaat en plaats willen gebruiken. Dus zullen deze foto's met de hand moeten worden gecategoriseerd. Met de hand gemaakte categorieën zullen niet verdwijnen deze categorieën komen niet leeg.

Jennifer, I think you're wrong. You said that the automatic categories made ​​will disappear. People fill the names in the pictures not because they want to use the photo on its own invented format and position So these photos are categorized by hand. The categories handmade will not disappear these categories are not empty. Mvg,--Lidewij 11:57, 23 June 2013 (EDT)

Hi Lidewij, just as with Person and Family pages, Images can be found with a search. If I do a search for Halbesma Images 21 images are returned. WR is not going to maintain the category system for these surname categories. So, all of the categories that you added to the image, Category:Halbesma in Netherlands, Category:Bijlsma in Netherlands, Category:Swart in Netherlands, Category:Monsma in Netherlands, Category:Leystra in Netherlands, Category:Veenstra in Netherlands will be deleted when Dallan finds time to do this. If the categories of the format Surname or Surname in place are not empty because a user put a category on a page by hand (of which there will be few), these will be deleted as well. --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:13, 23 June 2013 (EDT)

Bij vele foto staat geen enkele naam en de foto zelf heeft een nummercode, deze foto’s zullen nergens worden gevonden. Alleen bij toeval op een pagina. Ook deze pagina’s Surname:Mol vindt je niet snel.
Wanneer zonder kijken alles wordt verwijderd, Dan moeten we ze daarna weer opnieuw maken wanneer we dat nodig vinden? Lijkt mij niet logisch.

By many photos is no name and photograph has a number code, these photos will never be found. Only by chance on a page. These pages Surname: Mol do not find you soon.
When everything is removed without looking, Then we have to re-create them afterwards when we see fit? Does not seem logical. --Lidewij 12:30, 23 June 2013 (EDT)

What do you mean with Surname:Mol? That too can be found with a search. --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:39, 23 June 2013 (EDT)

I Know this. I say, not soon.
How would this photo to find? --Lidewij 12:46, 23 June 2013 (EDT) http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Image%3ADSC07004.JPG&diff=15832870&oldid=15206477

Photos should have some identifying information on the page for other users to be able to find them. Either they will be linked to Person/Family/Place pages, or, in this test situation, they will have text on the page that can be searched. Some ways to find this photo in a search are:

Er zijn pagina’s die enkel een plaats aanduiding hebben, sommige pagina’s niets, enkel een verkeerde licentie Zoals foto zelf gemaakt omstreeks 1880.
Vele van deze gelinkte pagina’s had je vanmorgen niet kunnen vinden.--Lidewij 14:05, 23 June 2013 (EDT)

There are pages that just have a place designation, some pages not, only a false license as picture homemade 1880s'
Many of these linked pages you could not find it this morning.--Lidewij 14:05, 23 June 2013 (EDT)


Gedcom of 20 05 2013 [24 June 2013]

Dear Jennifer

Did you talk with Dallan about making the return download of my uploaded Gedcom of 20 05 2013 ?

Would be nice if I can have that one to start to reconfigure my tree

Thanks for a reply Regards

Reginald

Responded on user's talk page --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:00, 24 June 2013 (EDT)

Earliest Ancestor [9 August 2013]

Hi Jennifer! Although I can't put my finger on where I saw it, I have a faint recollection of a prohibition against adding people born before a particular date. Do I remember that correctly? Frank--Frank 12:30, 26 June 2013 (EDT)

There is a limit for GEDCOM uploads - people born earlier than about 1700 are excluded from upload. However, these pages can be entered manually. WR does discourage the creation of pages before 700 AD since they are generally unsubstantiated. --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:15, 26 June 2013 (EDT)
700AD? or 1700?--henk 13:43, 26 June 2013 (EDT)
1700 (thereabouts) for GEDCOM upload and 700 for manually entered data. --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:49, 26 June 2013 (EDT)

Greetings Jennifer, I have two generations of my Porter line ancestors who date to the mid-1600's. Are there any acceptions to the 1700 guideline?--Frank 15:28, 8 August 2013 (EDT)

responded on user's talk page. --Jennifer (JBS66) 11:04, 9 August 2013 (EDT)

"List" drop down menu [27 June 2013]

Greetings Jennifer, Do you have any insight into why the drop down menu from "List" doesn't always populate when I click on "People?" Seems to work about half the time. Just curious...--Frank 10:07, 27 June 2013 (EDT)

Well, if you had a lot of people in your tree, and the loading icon was going round-and-round for 10 minutes, I'd say you didn't wait long enough :) (that's the difficulty I have with list view). However, you don't have too many people in your trees. Have you tried opening it with different browsers (IE vs Firefox vs Chrome)? --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:55, 27 June 2013 (EDT)

Thank you [17 July 2013]

Thanks for the answer on the help page about unwed mothers. I tried to search for the answer first, but I'm still having a little confusion about where exactly to look for the help.  :)--Artbasement 14:23, 17 July 2013 (EDT)


Hello [23 August 2013]

Hello Jennifer,

My name is Dave. I recently (very) started working on my family tree. While searching, I found your page that references Jan Jansma and Pleutje Wiersma. I think they may be my great grandparents. Any information/help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you! Dave Jenkins--Dcjenkins 18:18, 22 August 2013 (EDT)

responded on user's talk page. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:27, 23 August 2013 (EDT)

Deleting Person Pages [12 September 2013]

Have found a number of Miner/Minor Family Person/Family pages dating to the 1300's that should be deleted for the reason that they do not exist and are based on a false genealogy report of the late 1600's. You can read about what happened here: http://alum.wpi.edu/~p_miner/CuriousPedigree.html

Would like to clean up the data base but can't figure out how to delete the person and family pages. I thought I remembered seeing a delete button in the left-hand drop down menu, but it seems to have disappeared on me! SpeedyDelete doesn't seem to fit the bill exactly.--Frank 23:38, 9 September 2013 (EDT)

I would suggest starting a discussion on the talk page of Person:Thomas Miner (2). There are a number of active users watching that page, a few of which also have admin rights. Any user can delete their own page, if they are the only watcher, by clicking on More>Delete. However, if there is more than one user watching the page, a user with Admin rights would need to delete it.
The results of that discussion may suggest a few things, including: delete the incorrect ancestry or unconnect it from the last known correct ancestor (if only the linkage of parents is disputed). --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:57, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

Thanks for the recommendation and for reminding me that WeRelate is a collaborative effort! :-) I'll start a discussion and see where it leads!--Frank 07:49, 12 September 2013 (EDT)


[23 September 2013]

Hi jennifer. It has been a long time! You helped me so much with my granddad Walterus (walter) Brouwers (Brower, browers). But i thought it became an end. In Holland there was nothing to find no more. So i went on with other persons from my familytree. Here I learned that you find much more of a person with a "persoonskaart" distributed by het centraal bureau voor de genealogie (www.cbg.nl) As example my uncle Jacques(father of the writer Jeroen Brouwers). On the persoonskaart information of all his children (5 kids!) and the places where he lived, professions and marriage. These cards are to have from persons who died after the year 1939 and the dying must be in Holland

Now my thought; Is there something like this in the U.S.?? If yes, then there is probably more to find of the two woman my granddad lived with in the U.S. Marie Leonhardt and Nina Evelina Derber. I hope you can boost my search to granddad Walterus!! Much greetings! Wim Brouwers--Wimbrouwers 09:50, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

Hello Wim, I saw that you've been in contact with Henk. We were able to find some additional information about Nina Derber (1. she was married previously and 2. text from her obituary). I've not yet seen any evidence that she had children. None are listed in census records nor mentioned in her obituary.
In the U.S., we don't have anything like the Dutch persoonskaart. We need to piece their lives together from census records, birth/marriage/death records, obituaries, etc. I would suggest that you go to Person:Marie Leonhardt (1) and Person:Nina Derber (1) and click "Watch" from the menu on the left. Then, you will be informed when new information is added to their pages. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:42, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for new information and thanks for the tip (to follow those two Walter-women) Wim Brouwers --Wimbrouwers 18:28, 23 September 2013 (UTC)


Communes of Charente (France) [24 September 2013]

A lot of towns and villages are forgotten in the list. I added Place:Genac, Charente, France. Is it possible to create the other pages automaticly ? Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 12:30, 14 September 2013 (EDT)

Bonjour Marc, WeRelate does not have a method/bot to add Place pages automatically. --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:39, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 07:11, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

broken page? [20 September 2013]

Wonder if you could take a quick look at User Talk:Erayc. I was posting a message, it didn't show up, tried again, same thing, but watchlist showed it twice. There seems to be a problem in a previous topic about renaming pages, that is causing nothing below that point to show on the screen, but I can't spot the problem. There are several subsequent messages that are visible when editing the page, but not when simply displaying it. Further, none of the signature symbols were resolved when the posts were made so if you do figure out how to fix this, you may end up as the signatory for all theses posts :-) Thank, --Jrich 15:18, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

It was the <surname> tag that was causing the problems. Thanks for letting me know, and thank you for warning me the signatures would end up being attributed to me :) I replaced the <> and reattached the proper signatures. --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:07, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you. When I looked at it, I considered that, but I was thinking the use of a single set of angle brackets like that shouldn't cause a problem, obviously wrong, and since it was somebody's else page, I didn't want to try a lot of experimentation that might or might not have worked. --Jrich 17:44, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Family tree of timothy Phillips and Freelove Stone [28 September 2013]

Hi, I am new here and I guess you and many of you on this page spend a lot of time checking out what others put up. but this is my family tree and I can tell you that the names are correct. I am a bit slow with using the site and have not yet found the links for citations for the information I am putting up. I plan too though. and if info is deleted i will put it back up when I have the citations. I can assure you that the names are correct. regards susy--Susyfreelove 00:19, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, what I did was add a marriage date and source to Family:John Dexter and Carrie Manning (1), added a birth date and source to Person:Carolyn Dexter (1), and merged duplicates pages you had for Family:Gideon Paine and Rebecca Corser (1). The email notifications you receive provide a link to details about edits users make to pages you watch. --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:18, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Jennifer!--Susyfreelove 00:57, 28 September 2013 (UTC)


Radegonde Lambert [27 September 2013]

Jennifer ! You can now read the register ... User:MarcelVallet added a direct link. Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 13:05, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


Info on Data Analyst for Featured Page [2 October 2013]

Hi Jennifer, I was starting to put Data Analyst up for the Featured Page, but there really isn't enough on her Talk Page to use.... Could you have her pick a few of her best examples of what she's added to WeRelate, so we can show others what she's done that is worthy of her being the Featured Page/User? Her User Page could also use some additional details as far as how long she's been involved in genealogy, what genealogical societies/organizations that she has belonged to, and perhaps some other interesting information that others would think could add credibility to her work here at WeRelate. Her User Page is a little "thin" on information compared to other significant users (no offense meant, of course).. Thanks much, I'll put her up on the Featured Page when I get some more "meat" to add, I'm sure she has lots more she could add...

Best regards,

Jim--Delijim 00:08, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good, I left her a message asking her to add additional details to her page. --Jennifer (JBS66) 22:42, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Jennifer, I've got her slotted for late October:)

Take care,

Jim:)


Wopereis / Boschker [8 October 2013]

hi JBS66, thx much for the examples.

i am now experimenting with images. i uploaded two documents, both are paid copies from the CBG (Centraal Bureau voor Genealogie)

one is a birth certificate from my grandmother (Aleida Johanna Boschker) the other one is the certificate of her marriage to my gf (Bernard Boschker)

what is the correct method to add these copies ? and what is the correct licensing option? (cost was EUR 10.70 for two documents plus packaging /copying)

thx, Ron--Woepwoep 13:42, 8 October 2013 (UTC)


Hallo Ron, welcome to WeRelate!

Regarding Image:HuwelijksAkte1891 Boschker x Spikkers.jpg, it appears that you added it properly to the family page Family:Bernard Boschker and Geertruida Spikkers (1). There is a small bug with image uploads that first you need to upload the image, then attach it to a page. You attach it to a page by clicking Edit on the Image, and enter the page name (not the URL) into the Person page or Family page fields. Note, the page name is in bold black letters at the top and begins with Person: or Family: You also added the Persoonskaart properly to Person:Aleida Boschker (1).

Regarding copyright, are there copyright laws in the Netherlands about posting certificates or family cards? You may just be able to say "Attribution required" and cite the archief where the document was from. Most of the birth/marriage/death certificates are available through FamilySearch, so we tend to just cite the year, place, and certificate number rather than uploading images. Of course you can upload them if you wish - it just makes for a lot of work :) --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:43, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

I forgot to mention that you can also add an image to a page from the Person/Family page itself. Click on Edit, go down to the Images section, and click the Add Image Link. I edited Person:Aleida Boschker (1) and added a few variations of the Persoonskaart just to show you how that is done. --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:50, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
excellent ! thanks Jennifer .

Seeking help with Russian/Ukranian places [17 October 2013]

I just posted a message on the talk page of user Crownedraven, but it occurs to me that she might not have been active in WeRelate for a while. I'm wondering if you could take a look at what I posted and see if you could offer help. If not, I understand. Thanks--DataAnalyst 03:00, 16 October 2013 (UTC)


Maybe this can give some help? HenkCS/Chortitza --henk 09:34, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. The info on Molochansk was new to me, and helpful. With looking at WeRelate pages and maps over the past couple of days, I think I have figured out how to go forward on tnis. I appreciate the help.--DataAnalyst 16:25, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
Sorry for my delay in responding. Unfortunately, I don't have very much knowledge about Ukrainian places. I'm glad that you were able to find information to solve your question. I saw your post on the Support page about the strange characters that came through in the FHLC import. I've noticed them in the past and I really hope Dallan is able to rename them automatically! --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:09, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Source: Seesing-Wopereis [23 okt 2013]

hi Jennifer,

what did you change? the email with the diff is unclear to me.

thx, Ron (learning...)--woepwoep 17:22, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

I renamed the source page Source:Seesing-Wopereis, Agnes. De Genealogie van het Geslacht Wopereis to be in Surname, First. Title format. This is the WR convention for book source titles. Then, I edited the author field in the same way. You don't need to edit the pages where you have previously used this as a reference. There will be a redirect so the link will work properly. --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:31, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

thx Jennifer ! warmest regards, Ron--woepwoep 18:46, 23 October 2013 (UTC)


What to do with two different marriage records? [24 October 2013]

hi Jennifer,

i came across two entries on different dates for one and the same marriage see http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Family:Derk_Goldewijk_and_Aleida_Harbers_%281%29

pls advise thx, Ron--woepwoep 04:50, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Hoi Woepwoep, houdt er rekening mee dat de notities van het Gelders archief héél slecht zijn. In mijn optiek moet allés worden gecontroleerd. Ik heb geholpen met Drenlias in het Drentsarchief, stukken lezen is vaak niet gemakkelijk. Hoe dit zo gekomen is heb ik wel zo mijn ideeën. Voor dat iemand ging trouwen moest dit drie zondagen in de kerk worden ‘afgeroepen’. Vaak wordt een termijn van ± 6 weken, van het aantekenen van de huwelijks voornemen, voor de huwelijksdatum aangehouden. De info op http://www.genealogiedomein.nl/index.php vind ik meer betrouwbaar. Groet, --Lidewij 09:04, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
Here is the scan for this marriage. The text in the margin appears to say "na drie voorgaande sondagse proclamatien gecopuleert den 3 maij" (If I am translating this properly: After three previous Sunday's proclamations they married 3 may) --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:45, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Problem with dates [24 October 2013]

Hello Jennifer ! There is a big problem ... please, see this page : http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Special:ReviewMerge/40383 ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 07:47, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


Long name resource [28 okt 2013]

Jennifer, the source have a long name Source:Rijksarchief in Gelderland. Lijst Van Namen Van Personen Vermeld in Doopboeken Van de Rooms-Katholieke Statie te Harreveld en Zieuwent (1735)

I may rename him? in bv. Source:Lijst namen doopboeken Rooms-Katholieke Statie te Harreveld en Zieuwent (1735) 1749-1811
Met vriendelijke groet, --Lidewij 21:14, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
Is this an index for the DTBL? See Source:Ferwerderadeel, Friesland, Netherlands. Doop-, Trouw- en Begraafboeken how we've been combining the DTB sources for a gemeente into one Doop-, Trouw- en Begraafboeken source. That is then referenced on a page like this Person:Sipke De Vries (1) --Jennifer (JBS66) 22:34, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Jennifer, It is not as simple as you indicate in the example of that DBT book. To avoid misunderstandings, I just come with this message. There was in the period before the Batavian Republic (1796) no freedom in religion. In that region was the Roman Catholic Church prohibited. It was not baptized Roman Catholic in churches in the region. This baptism notes are a mix of many sources. There was baptized in houses, farms, etc., also in Germany. It is not to group under one location / place. The source thought I note as proposed. Groet, --Lidewij 09:05, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Jennifer, Het is niet zo simpel zoals je bij het voorbeeld van dat DBT boek aangeeft. Om misverstanden te voorkomen kom ik juist met deze melding. Er was in het tijdvak voor de Bataafse Republiek (1796) geen vrijheid in godsdienst. In die regio was de rooms-katholieken kerk verboden. Er werd in die regio niet in kerken RK-gedoopt. Deze doopnotities zijn een samenraapsel van vele bronnen. Er werd gedoopt in huizen, boerderijen enz., ook wel in Duitsland. Het is niet onder één locatie / plaats te groeperen. De bron dacht ik te noteren zoals voorgesteld. Groet, --Lidewij 09:05, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
The format for Church & Government records is Place. Title, so the title would need to begin with Gelderland, Netherlands. There are about 9 of these lijsten for Gelderland. Would it make sense to combine them all into one Source Gelderland, Netherlands. Lijst van Namen van Personen Vermeld in de Doopboeken van de Rooms-Katholieke Statie (32 characters shorter)? We can indicate the dates in the source fields, rather than the title. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:18, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
Jennifer, bad solution without Harreveld en Zieuwent. Forget it. Never mind, it will almost did not be used. Groet, --Lidewij 15:33, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

the discriminator is now near the end of the source, so i need to copy and paste the whole entry.

it would certainly help if find/all could handle regular expressions (regexp) so that for example I can type "*harreveld*" and it would come up immediately with the right list.

for Lichtenvoorde alone (also located in Gelderland, Netherlands) there are 8 different source files (PDF) for the parish of "Harreveld en Zieuwent" there are six.--woepwoep 17:26, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Woepwoep, het is een lijst en geen bron. Die is anders, tevens gooi je de bronnen van verschillende herkomst door elkaar. Ik zal je helpen. Groet, --Lidewij 17:49, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
gezien, super ! thx, R
Ron, I agree, searching for sources should be more intelligent than needing to type the first word of the title! Geographic and church sources should be titled Place. Title - but many NL Sources do not yet follow this format. I've renamed and reorganized many for Friesland, so these can be used as a guide for the rest of NL. Burgerlijke Stand sources after 1811 are titled - Place. Burgerlijke Stand. So, for example, Source:Nunspeet, Gelderland, Netherlands. Registers Van de Burgerlijke Stand, 1812-1942 is not titled properly and would need to be renamed. When the Burgerlijke Stand is cited on a page, it is there you can describe if it is a G/H/O or tafel, year, etc.
Similarly, the DTB(L) sources are being combined and renamed. As I listed above, Source:Ferwerderadeel, Friesland, Netherlands. Doop-, Trouw- en Begraafboeken is one such example. When this is cited on a page, there you can indicate exactly which DTB source is being referenced for that particular gemeente. The Rooms Katholiek have been included in these combined Source pages, just as they are in the Repertorium-dtb. --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:23, 28 October 2013 (UTC)



In my opinion the sources for Harreveld en Zieuwent (1749-1811) are quite clear: The source is

  • Lichtenvoorde, Doop- trouw- en begraafboeken

The specification:

  • Rooms Katholieke Gemeente, Statie te Harreveld, later te Zieuwent.
  • DTB 1050, Year 1749-1759

and

  • DTB 1051, Year 1759-1811


This is correctly identical with the Friesland, Groningen etc sources. --Klaas 17:34, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Klaas, het ging bij de lange-naam helemaal niet over een bron van de Doop- trouw- en begraafboeken. Het ging over een name-lijst gemaakt van die boeken, omdat de verschillende boekjes en losse?-bladeren van dat gebied in een map (en dus een film) waren gestopt. Lichtenvoorde was niet katholiek. Er waren wel katholieken die zich protestant lieten dopen en trouwen zoals de Staat het wenste. (het is bekent dat het stiekem ook nog katholiek gebeurde)
Ronald gebruikte eerst de lijst als bron, de echte bron was even zoek. Deze was verstopt bij het dorp Herveld, Gelderland in de Betuwe.


Christening not found in Canteleu [2 November 2013]

Please Jennifer ! See Person:Christophe Crevier (2). What is your source ? Is "Canteleu" the right place ? Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 17:31, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Bonjour Marc! Canteleu was not the right place. I edited the page to show Saint-Cande-le-Jeune in Rouen and added a source (Genealogy of the French in North America). When I began the Québec/French research many years ago, I did not have access to primary documents (the scans) online. --Jennifer (JBS66) 19:25, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
Ok ! Fine ! Thank you ! Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 19:29, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Kelly gedcom file. [18 November 2013]

Shall I delete the old file on WeRelate before submitting the revised one?

EKBDVA--EKBDVA 21:17, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Since your GEDCOM is still in user review, in order to correct the errors you noted on the Support page, you would need to delete the current GEDCOM and submit a corrected one. You can delete the file by going to GEDCOM review, to the Overview tab, and press the Remove this GEDCOM button. If you need any help with this, just let me know, and I can remove the file for you. --Jennifer (JBS66) 00:10, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Kelly gedcom removal [19 November 2013]

I think I did it correctly. Thanks for your help EKBDVA--EKBDVA 14:57, 19 November 2013 (UTC)


Thank You and Help [2 December 2013]

First, thank you for the edits in my tree. I am still trying to figure this all out. What I saw was when I was displaying a person's profile page it showed options to add parents or children which I did. But when I displyed those added individuals I was asked to add parents or children as appropriate. This does not happen automatically when you start adding from another profile page? And if not, how do make the connections to already entered family members.

You may have noticed I entered an individual named Florence Knupp. I would like to build on her too but I am reluctant to continue because of the issues I seem to be encountering. I am VERY GRATEFUL for you stepping in and fixing my various relationship issues but I am guessing you might not want to have to ALWAYS "come to my rescue".

I've been looking at the tutorials but apparently I am missing something if it is there for me to be having these issues. How do I find out or figure out how to better enter individuals and grow my tree. Where do I go from here?

Thank you.--Rphi1017 15:42, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Responded on User's talk page. --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:20, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Bedankt voor het opruimen van de puinhoop van vanmiddag, het ging niet goed. Groet Herman--herman34 23:01, 1 December 2013 (UTC)


New records [2 December 2013]

Hello ! No problem ! Be patient, please ! These/my new pages are not for "living people" ! Only the "given names" (prénoms) are showing that those persons lived between 1800 and 1900 ! Amicalement ! Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 10:39, 2 December 2013 (UTC)


Thank you! [4 December 2013]

I didn't even notice that the gender was wrong. Thanks so much for your help!--Marytennessee 16:07, 4 December 2013 (UTC)


Search form [9 dec 2013]

hi Jennifer,

i noticed that when i add a female child, the popup search form also includes males. do you know why this is?

best regards, Ron--woepwoep 11:16, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

This happens because the Search form does not contain a gender field to search on. I would suggest adding this as a suggestion for website features. --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:30, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Done ! Search form to include gender --woepwoep 19:34, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


Deleting "discussions" and messages of other contributors ! I say "NO !" [22 December 2013]

Hello, Jennifer ! I saw this page, where I wrote some words ! I don't want that my contributions, commentars, encouragments, helps, or "nice critics" disappear ! This was the very important point of conflict on Rodovid, almost 2 years long ! Each contributor have the right to read at each time (always) what he wrote and where (at the right original place). It's for me and others the basis princip of a wiki ... naturally if the messages are without apology of violence, pornography, etc ... and without vulgarity, without provocation ! A user-talk-page is not a private page ! It's for all the community of contributors ! The rule of a wiki is "traceability" ! The talk-pages have to be preserved, even if a problem is now solved !

I saw also that an administrator (Jrm03063) deleted all his talk page before April 2013. I don't understand User talk:Jrm03063 ... why ? For me, it's a form of no respect (disrespect ?) of ideas and work of others contributors ! I saw that before my arrival (coming) on WeRelate ! I can say that this big problem (for me) much delayed my participation in the WeRelate-project ! Was this problem of "traceability" already and clearly discussed ? If this is the case, what were the arguments and very specific reasons ? I would find stupid and unproductive to have to make a copy (with screenshots) to each of my words on a talk-page (as I did the last days of my contributions on Rodovid). Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 10:32, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Marc, I looked at Wikipedia's policy (English) and Français about this. It says in part, Wikipedia "does not prohibit users, whether registered or unregistered users, from removing comments from their own talk pages, although archiving is preferred". You can see previous comments by viewing the talk page History. If you would like to suggest a policy change, or discuss this further, it would be best to create a post on the Watercooler. --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:18, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
(Pardon me for butting in after stumbling over this discussion.) Jennifer, it seems Marc is not talking about "removing comments" as that Wikipedia policy is talking about. "Removing comments" is just a normal edit, and as such leaves the previous content available via a previous entry in the talk page's History. Marc is talking about deletion of content: this makes the previous content completely unavailable to normal users and the public. Although history entries may still be visible, normal users cannot see any of the text of the revision (although I guess Admins can). I believe Admins can restore the old revisions (only under some conditions?) through an "Undelete" command, so not all traces are removed, but for normal access, it's totally gone. Hence Wikipedia's policy (where "You can see previous comments by viewing the talk page History") does not apply.
So, Marc's concern is not that his comments were edited off of the current version of a talk page, but rather that they were made unavailable via the history of changes. Similarly, Jrm03063 did not just edit out old stuff from the current version of his talk page (often a good thing to do), but rather he erased all that content from the history, effectively destroying it. Is it possible that not all WeRelate Admins understand the inappropriateness of such deleting? If so, maybe some remediation for the admins would be in order. --robert.shaw 21:15, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Drost family in Dunkerque [27 December 2013]

Hello Jennifer ! No problem ! But in some hours (tomorrow) ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 20:56, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello ! Please, see my modification ... error parentage - Brigitte Heger has other parents ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 08:59, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Merci! I "merged" the pages for her parents. I should also rename Person:Brigitte Eigers (1), to Brigitte Heger, since that was her proper surname. Merci bien de votre assistance! --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:01, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Merged ? Why ? It's not correct ! Rename ... yes, but I'll try to find the baptismal certificate abt 1760-1763. It takes time ... there is no "table" ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 12:36, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
I just looked for the year 1761 ... not found unless I am mistaken ! Year 1761 begins at page 1031 and the end is page 1147. I don't know if 1762 or 1760 ist "the" solution ! We need time and good eyes and a little luck/chance ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 17:05, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Got it! baptism #148 Her marriage said "elle 32 ans 5 mois 12 jours" (on 13 aug 1794), so I searched March 1762.
You asked why merge? Because this edit does not delete the wrong family. Also, User:TP was watching the "wrong" parents, but not watching the correct parents. So, when I merged them, TP becomes a watcher of the correct parents and the "wrong" page is essentially removed. I kept the wrong names as alt names, because these names appear in Dutch records. I know the French records are accurate, but a Dutch person searching may look for the "Dutch" names. --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:54, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Fine ! Congratulations ! You went faster than me.
Stupidly I had not given priority this time to calculation (subtracting years, months and days) because I too often met since I started in genealogy serious errors in the calculations made by the authors of acts. We must still sometimes trust what we read ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 19:19, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

hi Jennifer, you answered one of my unasked questions, which is what should i do when my family name is Wopereis and the record shows WopereRs (a writing error). do i understand correct that i should add this name as an alt name? thx, Ron--woepwoep 17:57, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ron, I think there are two ways you could handle it. One is to add the name as an alt name. I did this for Brigitte above because she used the name Eigers throughout her time in Friesland, and it was referenced in a number of sources. In the case of one-time writing errors, you may want to include the spelling in the source text box instead. --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:06, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
that makes sense. thx !

empty records [28 December 2013]

Hello Jennifer ! What about those 7 empty records ?... no place, no date, no family link, no link about occupation/witness/administrative function ? Could you ask the contributor to complete his informations ! Otherwise these empty sheets are perfectly useless ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 11:24, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Bonjour! These appear to have been empty child pages of Family:Daniel Juy and Judith Judique (1) that were removed from the family instead of deleted. I went ahead and deleted these 7 pages, since they were empty. --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:05, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Family Trees [28 December 2013]

Is there another way to add people to a family tree without opening and saving their page?--Frank 14:37, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

In the menu on the left of Person/Family pages, there is a Tree link. Click that and you will be directed to another page with checkboxes next to your tree names. Check the tree(s) you want to add the page to and press Update. You can also add multiple pages to a tree this way, under the Include relatives section. --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:53, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!--Frank 14:57, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


a miracle? husband is widower and wife dies two years later [29 December 2013]

see Person:Gerard_Wopereis_(3) and his wife Person:Johanna_Isereef_(1)

sources see their individual death records.

question: how is this possible?

thx, Ron--woepwoep 21:28, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

It's certainly odd... Garrit dies in 1848 and claims he is widowed, and Johanna dies in 1850 and claims she is unmarried (de overledene ongehuwd en de aangevergeene verwanten van de overledene). Have you looked at the marriage records for some of the children? Does it suggest, perhaps, the parents are living separately? --Jennifer (JBS66) 22:46, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
I have added the marriage record for the youngest of their children, Antonia (Teune) Wopereis

Family:Jan_Berend_Holkenborg_and_Antonia_Wopereis_(1) I can not see any signs of separation.

Garrit died in Lievelde while Johanna died in Zieuwent. These two places are about 5 miles apart, both in the gemeente Lichtenvoorde. So perhaps they were indeed separated. Usually people would never leave the place they married into, unless they married into another place. (research continues...)
FWIW, I have seen what Jennifer alludes to a number of times among Netherlands-Americans. One of the better documented cases is Hendrik Swets and Jannigje Gouwens, where some time before 1900 he went back to the Netherlands, she stayed in Chicago, and each insisted that the other was deceased. (At least one son was in on the real story, because once his father actually passed away, he went over to settle the estate.) --Pkeegstra 00:25, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

nice story !

also there is something with her mother Alei(j)da Aagten i have two records Person:Aleijda_Aagten_(1) and Person:Aleida_Aagten_(1) and the first person (Aleijda) was also a widow two years before her husband died. today is a wonderful day to look further into this matter. care to join? best regards, Ron--woepwoep 08:18, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

a first research shows there are at least six Alei(j)da Aagten instead of just two. What makes it complicated is the fact that this branch of Wopereis called themselves Wolters. So when i see Wolters it is not immediately clear if it is truly a Wolters or a Wopereis. (research continues...)
The Huwelijksbijlagen for Family:Jan Berend Holkenborg and Antonia Wopereis (1) has a record of Johanna dying in 1832: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-17177-8870-22. The problem is Johanna (died 1850) is the wrong one. Here is the death certificate for the correct Johanna https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/DGS-004525082_00420?cc=1949343 (No. 80). --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:16, 29 December 2013 (UTC)