GEDCOM Export Ready [5 March 2014]
The GEDCOM for tree mason is ready to download. Click here.
GEDCOM Export Ready [5 March 2014]
The GEDCOM for tree tuttle is ready to download. Click here.
GEDCOM Export Ready [5 March 2014]
The GEDCOM for tree noyes is ready to download. Click here.
Wikipedia information [20 March 2014]
Hi Jrm, can you please expedite the Wikipedia Template population for Bernard Kroger? I believe you helped with one of these a while ago...
Thanks much and best regards,
Jim:)--Delijim 17:02, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
- Please be aware that I am no longer a routine contributor. --jrm03063 20:25, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for your assistance:)
Have a great week,
Removing categories [20 November 2014]
Would you mind explaining why you removed Person:Richard Dummer (2) from both categories I added?--Daniel Maxwell 17:30, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
- I just finished the e-mail explanation. Feel free to revert/modify things any way you like - I did that one page as an illustration. --jrm03063 17:35, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Sir Winston Churchill ancestry [1 January 2015]
- "At the end of the 16th century the Lord of the Manor of Standish was Sir Henry Winston. His memorial in Standish's 14th century Church of St Nicholas carries a 20th-century sign:
- "This monument to Sir Henry Winston was restored to commemorate the marriage in 1618 of his daughter Sarah to John Churchill from which union descended Sir Winston Churchill K.G. O.M. C.H. M.P. 1874-1965 Prime Minister 1940-1945. 1951-1955"
- "This Sarah Winston's grandson became the first Great Duke of Marlborough, ancestor of Sir Winston."
I found this in the Wikipedia article on Standish in Gloucestershire. It has not been transferred to WeRelate. We appear to have a conflicting entry for this marriage, so I hesitate to add it myself.
Happy New Year
--Goldenoldie 11:38, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
email? [5 October 2015]
I got your email, but cannot respond as you didn't include your address and I cannot send email via WeRelate due to your user settings (according to the error message). --Trentf 13:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! [18 nov 2015]
Thank you for your encouragement to work with the stuff you already put into WR.
I had already wondered why some Dutch persons seemed so English.
I'm currently working on my mothers pedigree. I had not expected it would bring me so far into the Middle Ages. And that I am very likely to be a descendant from people that played key roles in the history of my region of birth. As a small child I was fascinated by the ruins of the Medieval castles, like Brederode and Meerenstein, wondering about the people who once lived there. And now I'm studying their geneology and history.
What I like about WR is that it offers the opportunity to build on the research of others and let others work on yours. If we work seriously, the result should improve. And I have learned the WR community to be one of serious geneologists.
So thank you for your encouragement and the opportunity to work with your input (and I hope others will benefit from mine).
Edwin--Edwin 20:43, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks again! [23 nov 2015]
That was a nice clarification.
I already had the impression that this was an example of "advanced wiki".
Nice to know how and why you applied it.
(must take some time some day to learn those tricks too :-)--Edwin 21:01, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the clean-up [29 December 2015]
Thanks for cleaning up Person:Abigail Whitney (1). It really helps when someone with some familiarity with the family can sort out some of the problems. --GayelKnott 21:55, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
Wikidata item [27 February 2016]
Thank you for asking my opinion on the wiki data item.
I've needed some time and experience to appreciate it.
I think it is a valuable addition to a profile.
1) I think wikipedia usually is a good secundary source, reflecting the general consensus among geneologists and historians. Of course this may vary from person to person, depending on the author and the depth in wich the article was reviewed. The strength of WP here is that it is fully open for review.
2) I think the historical and genealogical body of knowledge may differ from country to country. Generally one may expect deeper knowledge in an language area or country that a person may be perceived to be a member from. For French nobility: look at France.
The tool helps to identify language areas that may be interesting to explore: on WP and other secondary sources.
There are some limitations though. I have seen that the tool does not pick up on all information in the article (I guess only what is tabulated?). And of course we are not all omnilinguistic. I'm limited to dutch, enlish and german and can pick up on french, italian and spanish.
Nevertheless, wikidata is a valuable addition I think!--Edwin 11:52, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you for giving it some thought as I requested. Since you were working out there, I wondered how it seemed to you.
- The individual commenting below has done so against my express wishes that he not post upon this page ever again. So as not to encourage him, I will communicate with you separately via e-mail (and will provide my private e-mail at that time). --jrm03063 01:15, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
- Sorry. If you did, it must have gotten erased when you deleted your Talk page and all its history. I can't find it. I wasn't really addressing anything you said, which I hope is clear. I was responding to a comment I thought was often untrue, to wit, "wikipedia usually is a good secundary source", based on my long experience with it. I responded here because the statement was posted here. I tried to respond with what I thought were factual examples, to which I would welcome fact-based responses if it is desired to explore this issue more. You appear to be moving your conversation to a non-public exchange, which seems appropriate if you do not want this to be a public discussion. --Jrich 05:58, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
- wikipedia is often not a good secondary source. The website itself has a policy against genealogy, and what little they do put on pages is often copied from the first source they find when writing the article, usually by an author who does not understand how to do genealogical research. Therefore, bad assumptions are made, complicated situations are rarely analyzed correctly, data is not confirmed against additional sources, and they do not know how to, or care to, resolve discrepancies. Not their job. To the extent that a wikipedia page lists its sources, it may be a useful tool for locating good sources, but use of wikipedia as a source has resulted in many bad errors, such as Person:Fletcher Webster (1), son of Daniel Webster, where the wikipedia article lists two sources and two references. While some of these sources had the right birth date, as do several other readily available sources on the Internet, the wikipedia article chooses to use a memorial plaque found on Find A Grave which happens to be engraved wrong, and then copied the data off the plaque wrong. Or there is Person:Mary Walcott (2), one of the Salem Witch Trial girls. The article gives her two marriages, but anybody looking up both marriages instead of just the one as the article did, would realize they are overlapping marriages necessarily involving two different woman. Or Person:Nathan Webb (1), whom wikipedia gives a wife Ruth and a daughter Elizabeth without realizing Elizabeth was his second wife, not his daughter. Any person looking at the records of Uxbridge, where he preached all his life, or reading his will which mentions Elizabeth his well Beloved wife, or distributing his estate to brothers and sisters instead of children, would realize this, but because genealogy is not important to wikipedia, they do not make this effort. Want more? I can go on all day. --Jrich 15:21, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Care in data entry [25 April 2016]
As you typically enter no sources, on such pages I always assume you are copying from Savage. However, recently, this assumption suggests Savage is being copied wrong, as a high percentage (maybe half?) of the pages I have been notified that you have changed, have had errors, several of which apparently appear to be the result of copying Savage wrong. If you stray from Savage, it would be courteous to enter the source, your work being so closely associated with Savage.
- 18 Apr: Person:Hannah Dane (6): unsourced death date 1730. Death date did not come from Savage, was imprecise, without location, wrong, and 2nd marriage was not entered, knowledge of which is required to find the correct death date, which occurred in 1734/5.
- 18 Apr: alt death date of 1676 added to Person:Stephen Otis (11) when his marriage is dated 10 years after this (1685/86) so he could not have died in 1676: apparently hasty reading of Savage which gives this death date to Stephen's wife's father.
- Further work on Otis family exposed from earlier entries:
- Person:Thomas Allyn (10) entered with birth 1665, death 1669, yet shown as married even though shown as died at age 4?
- Person:Elizabeth Otis (3), wife of Thomas Allyn, death date entered as 1669 (their marriage was 1688, the existing marriage entered by you to David Loring showed a date of 1699).
- 19 Apr: Family:James Patterson and Rebecca Stevenson (2): death location of son James given as Dunstable even though Savage says "a. 1718 rem. to Groton, there d. 1737", son Jonathan entered with incorrect birth date not found in Savage (31 Aug 1686, when Savage says 31 Jan 1686 which is correct) and no source given.
- 20 Apr: Person:Samuel Payson (5): entered with birth date 10 years off (1672, Savage has it right, giving 1662).
- 21 Apr: Renamed Family:George Phillips and Elizabeth Unknown to George Phillips and Elizabeth Bond with no sources, apparent misreading of Savage who says "Eliz, by Bond, with happy conject. thot. to be wid.of capt. Robert Welden", i.e., referring to Henry Bond the author of Watertown Genealogies, not giving her surname.
- 22 Apr: estimated birth of Person:Sarah Pitney (1) input as 1632 even though Savage says she was age 7 when came on Planter in 1636, which would be 1629 [and most sources, e.g. here give 1635, making it 1628].
These are just the errors of commission, not counting errors of omission and various errors made by Savage (such as Samuel Payson having the wrong wife) and simply copied. --Jrich 04:35, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
- Feel free to offer your complaints to someone in authority. --jrm03063 15:53, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
John Evelyn [24 May 2016]
I was tidying up the places for John Evelyn, the diarist, and found that your descriptions of places of death and burial, taken from Wikipedia, did not match with the WR atlas. Before I change them, I thought you might like to take a look at the page in edit mode as it now stands.
- Dover Street is now considered to be in London, but in 1706 was in Westminster, Middlesex. (It is between Bond Street and Albemarle Street--I worked for John Murray, the publishers, in Albemarle Street 50 years ago in my first year in England and had many enjoyable lunchtime walks in the area.)
- The Evelyn Chapel is in St. John's Church in Wotton, Surrey, England, and not in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
I know you are not responsible for the WR page on [[Person:John Evelyn (1)|John Evelyn]], the grandson of the above. I will attempt to clean it up in the next few days using only Wikipedia as a reference. It amazes me that anyone would leave a webpage describing an historical figure available for viewing by anyone in the state it is currently in. It does no credit to WR.
Regards, --Goldenoldie 07:03, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
- You are very kind to consult me, but I'm very happy for you to proceed on the basis of your best sense of the matter. --jrm03063 15:14, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
BOT savvy [25 August 2016]
Unfortunately I am not savvy re: BOTs; I'm one of those contributors who uses Help often. I searched Support & Watercooler, but was unable to come up with the short conversation I recall reading, a month ago ? My instinct is that Dataanalyst may have that knowledge or at least recall who does. My apologies, I don't always recall everyone's given name vs. their user name. Best of luck finding a BOT expert. Neal--SkippyG 17:30, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
- Well, Thanks all the same! --jrm03063 17:54, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
I just saw this comment... I must have missed on the watercooler page that you were looking for someone with BOT expertise. While I don't have specific BOT expertise, I've written many programs to do web related work, including web crawlers and programs for manipulating wikis and other web sites. I don't have a lot of spare time on my hands, but I may be able to help out. --Trentf 14:40, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
- Another brave soul! That's great! Even if you're only in a position to offer your opinions, that would be useful. To get a general idea of what I've been messing around with, see these:
- * User:Jrm03063/Source-side reference creation
- * User:Jrm03063/Savage Extract Sample
- * User:Jrm03063/savage sketches.py
- * (and maybe) About the WeRelate Transcript of the Genealogical Dictionary of the First Settlers of New England (and in particular this)
- Some folks - well one anyway - are extremely anxious about what might happen on Person pages were a bot cut loose to distribute content from Savage. I think there are lots of ways such distribution could occur - including approaches that would be very modest in impact. For example, instead of putting lots of content directly on particular Person pages - to instead create a small standard source link that references a secondary page (one of those per Person) - which would contain extracted content from Savage. There are also approaches like that used for Wikipedia - where the Person page sources a template - and the separate template page is the part most apt to see change over time.
- I don't yet have a solid idea of what I would want to do on a per-Person page basis - but I'm inclined to try to be modest in initial impact (to Person pages anyway). Ironically - use of a bot creates an incentive to start small. Letting bot results be proved in practice isn't the kind of hardship that you have if you have to implement a community standard by hand. Humans really don't dig repeating thousands of painfully accomplished hand edits because someone decided that the cosmetics of the approach needed to be tweaked. If done by bot - changes usually only stress out the bot writers (they're used to such abuse!).
- Thanks for reaching out! --jrm03063 16:39, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
- It will take me a bit to read through things, but my initial thoughts are that bot edits are something requiring great caution. Perhaps a separate project page on here documenting the precise nature of the edits? I would suggest running such a bot in a very limited way, until everyone can see it's not going to "run wild". Also, I would suggest putting the source code on GitHub or some such location, a wiki page isn't really a good place for storing source code (my particular speciality is version control systems). As for Python... I will do my best to control my gag reflex :-) --Trentf 20:47, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
- I don't think there's near as much cause for anxiety as others might think. The domain of operation need not be all 23,000+ (and growing). I wouldn't expect to do more than 10 for purposes of a by-hand demonstration (not a bot - but program created edits that I paste in mechanically). Only after some interest/consensus develops with that kind of demonstration, would I imagine moving to something meant to run as a bot. Even then - I would expect to limit the domain of operation to a tiny and statically defined set of Person pages. A lot of baby steps where the operational domain grows very, very slowly.
- Have you seen how WP content is distributed to pages here? Separate template pages are written for each WP extract. The only thing that the bot does on Person (and other pages) is to drop in a reference to the template - which is then never changed again. I think a similar approach could be used here - where the actual size of a Person page bot edit would be a couple dozen bytes. Perhaps all I would want to do is add a single active page link to a single note entry. The link referring to a secondary page containing an index of Savage for the person in question.
- I could even imagine a roll out - where one of the steps is to only allow the bot to touch Person pages that are empty of sources or content outside the barest fact fields (unsourced birth/death and name). Perhaps even a semi-automatic process - where the bot only writes the separate index pages - and a human is required to add a reference to the Savage index page associated with that particular Person.
- Only after many tiny steps (and it may never even be needed) could I imagine writing transcript content directly to a Person page. --jrm03063 01:31, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
- BTW - I agree that something like GITHUB is a better place for code. Sorry that python isn't your style though - we embed it in our applications at my workplace - in order to make them script capable for testing as well as repeated operations. It's been very helpful and pretty easy to hook up. --jrm03063 01:35, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
BOT & Savage [24 August 2016]
I've not been avoiding giving you my opinion re: BOT/Savage; rather that I am not very savvy when it comes to creating programs, BOTS, etc. Nevertheless, I can offer opinions regarding its usefulness.
Preface: I don't cite Savage's Dictionary often, because of its well-known errors. In fact only when I can't access other sources do I grab a quote as anchor while I seek elsewhere. I'm one of those WR contributors who can't afford any memberships right now, who learns what I need to know one lesson at a time. I sometimes wonder how useful I am here, not being a "techy", but have decided that I produce more than my share of Person Pages, Cleanups, Place pages, etc. to justify my presence.
I do see a possibility for use with various VRs that are neither alphabetical or chronological, ie. Enfield (Conn) History which jumbles vital records between prose and selectmen's meeting notes, in an order that is very hard to search. Also wondering if this BOT feature could be optional ? Or when implemented, does it seek out ALL pages to which the quotes apply ? I certainly am in favor of a small trial run, (if the genealogy gods agree), if only to get people to "think outside the box". As you've seen, there are a few that grouse about anything new.
Well, that's my 2 cents worth... Neal--SkippyG 04:03, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- I guess bot knowledge exists somewhere. If it becomes needed - it can be found.
- What I'm trying to find now - is what kind of thing might be acceptable to the community. I absolutely agree that a trial/restricted run would occur before anything was done across "the universe". I would expect a series of informal iterations over potential display ideas - for just a handful of Person pages (not using a real bot - just a program that behaves "as if" it were a bot). My sample bot would produce output that I would then copy/paste into the handful of test pages - for critical review by a few open minded parties. Only when consensus was reached with a small friendly audience - would I think about moving to making a proposal to the community.
- A real bot implementation could be - more or less - as flexible as you want. It could look at a specific Person page and - based on what it found there - do different things. Anything from "leave this page alone" to "do everthing" to "do a little". I hadn't thought too much about letting individual Person pages tune the result that they got - but that is a possibility. Instead - I was trying to think of something minimal that would never be unacceptable - so that it could be used everywhere.
- One of the reasons that I was interested in Savage was specifically because it seemed kind of "hard" - being more or less continuous narrative. I've found that the right choices of templates used for markup - allowed me to solve two problems at once. The templates can be used to control display characteristics - useful for making the transcript display nicely as a stand alone document. They can also mark what different content in the transcript means (what it is, where it starts and ends, etc.) such that a different program can process the same input to produce a summary of reference information organized for specific WR Person pages.
- I would be interested in seeing your Enfield Selectman's notes material - assuming some of it is on line somewhere. Was it published? Does a transcript exist?
- I'm tired...maybe I should sleep? :) --jrm03063 05:11, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
In WR Catalog:
Allen, Francis Olcott. The history of Enfield, Connecticut: compiled from all the public records of the town known to exist, covering from the beginning to 1850 ... ; together with the graveyard inscriptions and those Hartford, Northampton and Springfield records which refer to the people of Enfield. (Lancaster, Pennsylvania: Wickersham Printing, 1900).--SkippyG 05:51, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
- That stuff is COOL! - and I assume - well out of copyright? Is there a transcription for you to start from? Or are you preparing a bucket of ice to soak your fingers? :) !
- I think it's inevitable that a WR transcription will have some cosmetic departures from the original - but the goal is to make things look enough alike that it's easy for someone to verify the transcription by comparison with the original page. Savage presented difficulties for me - since it's a transcription with embedded updates for various corrections discovered and published during Savage's lifetime. You would be in a better position - since you would be absolutely strict about having a published page that agreed with a transcript page. I did split the Savage transcript back into the page breaks of the original - which is a huge help when checking - but it's not exact.
- Were I you, I suppose I would try to get my hands on jpegs for every page in the published original. An overall pdf may be ok - but ONLY if the page numbering was careful to be consistent with the published original in a very obvious way (as I see the PDF on hathitrust - page "115" corresponds to a weird pdf reference with "seq=123"). Unless you can find a way to re-name/re-number PDF pages after the fact (I suppose there must be a way) - I wouldn't want to use that. When you're creating a transcript for page "115" - you want to be able to refer to the corresponding image in a very obvious way.
- While the content has a lot of narrative - there appears to be some usable linear structure. Dates break up and effectively label the content that follows. Committee meetings seem to have a regular appearance - with the names of officers listed. Notes seem to be embedded in blocks in the page - but could probably be shifted to the end of the page without being too disruptive.
- By making sure that the transcription is broken up into pages that nicely correspond to the original - you get useful back links just as soon as you start annotating transcription pages with WR Person references. That's instantly useful all on its own. It becomes more important if you want to be able to use software to analyze the transcription (tracking where WR Person references appear) - so that you can later produce a competent index - or even better - a full reference.
- --jrm03063 17:45, 24 August 2016 (UTC)