User talk:Jhamstra

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Welcome

Welcome to WeRelate, your virtual genealogical community. We're glad you have joined us. At WeRelate you can easily create ancestor web pages, connect with cousins and other genealogists, and find new information. To get started:

If you need any help, I will be glad to answer your questions. Just click on my signature link below and then click on the “Leave a message” link under my name in the upper left corner of my profile page. Thanks for participating and see you around! Debbie Freeman --DFree 17:13, 25 May 2011 (EDT)


Welcome! [3 June 2011]

Hi Jhamstra!
I'm not an administrator, but wanted to welcome you. I've been following the discussion about tagging etc with interest. You're saying what needs to be said and saying it well! I've been watching this site evolve for a couple years now and have left in frustration (I'm wiki challenged) several times but am always drawn back by the opportunity for collaboration. There is so much potential here! I too just want to put my data here so it won't be lost - and I'm not going to try to convince any jury that it is a 'mature' well-done work; though I've done my best and usually say where I got the info. I know all sources are not equal but will leave it up to the viewer to decide if the source is reliable. I do like the fact that one can discuss doubts and/or conflicting data either on the person page itself or on the related 'talk' page. There is even a template that I've used on ocassion that can be put on a page saying "Conjectured information is on this page". Here's one way I used it: Person:Willis Jackson (5)

Yes, WeRelate is still not out of beta and is a bit clumsy in places. There is just one programmer, Dallan. He has worked at this full time for I don't know how long, but is currently doing consulting work, so changes are done as he has time. He has recently put a notice on the front page to see if he can recruit someone to help with the programming. He is good to be open to suggestions and ideas to make things better. He seems to really depend on the users to tell him what needs the most attention and why. He monitors the watercooler, so hopefully he'll see your comments, but you can always use his talk page to be more specific. I appreciate the opportunity to be in on the building of this site. I think the potential is great, if they can just make it a bit easier to use! --Janiejac 02:41, 3 June 2011 (EDT)


need proof [15 June 2011]

You added Family:James Woods and Unknown (2) as parents of Person:Frances Wood (3) with no sources. The birth record already cited on Frances' page explicitly identifies her parents as John and Mary. ??? --Jrich 00:23, 16 June 2011 (EDT)


Oops! - I typed in the wrong name - it is now corrected.

I have no issue with the sources for her parents - my own stop at Frances Wood.

PS - I am glad someone is watching at least some of what I am entering - we are all subject to error. --Jhamstra 00:51, 16 June 2011 (EDT)


links to other werelate pages [29 September 2011]

Links to other werelate page should be done using double brackets and the page title, rather than single brackets and URLs. For example [[Person:Isaac Newton (19)|Isaac Newton]]. The text after the bar is used as the display text of the link Isaac Newton or it may be left off and you get Person:Isaac Newton (19). This form of link is preferrable to using URLs because it is easier when somebody else edits the page (less line wrap problems in edit mode, less troublesome syntax - no underscores or unicode characters - so fewer errors) and because it clearly shows up as a WeRelate link so safe while the other form looks like any external link possibly on some remote website of unknown safety. It is also conceivable that changes in the future could break the URL form whereas updates would ensure that the intra-werelate links continue to work. --Jrich 14:07, 29 September 2011 (EDT)


Zeeland resource [12 November 2011]

I see that some of your Dutch ancestors were from Zeeland. I'm not sure if you know of http://www.zeeuwengezocht.nl. It's a great resource for Zeeland records. --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:30, 12 November 2011 (EST)


Thank you [15 September 2013]

Thank you for leaving the familysearch.org record of Samuel Fuller & Jane Lathrop's marriage. Genealogical research is so tricky not only because records are difficult to verify but also the confusion added because our modern day spelling rules just didn't apply back then. I would love to know if the name is Lathrop or Lathrope?? Either could be correct. I would think Lathrop may have Norman ancestry where as Lathrope could be more British. I have done more reading in the past few yrs than I think I did throughout my school years lol. I have tried very hard to verify the info in my part of the family tree before I entered it on this site. One of the most ironic things I have uncovered is the fact that my ancestor Samuel Fuller & Frances Cook the ancestor of my best friend for the past 20 yrs were on the Mayflower together. Thank you for adding more sources as well. I truly do appreciate it. All the best.

Jules--JulesLonghurstStiles 04:23, 15 September 2013 (EDT)

Hi Jules,
Among many reasons why English spelling had so few rules are the history of the various invaders who each brought their different ways of saying and writing the same things. So I would not read much into the Lathrop ve Lathrope thing, other than perhaps the Normans were former Vikings who had lived in France just long enough to acquire some French customs and linguistic conventions, which they imported to England. So it was very common the see the same name spelled two or three or more different ways depending on who was writing. Same thing or worse happened with Dutch names because in the early 1600s the Low Provinces became the melting pot of Western Europe after their war of independence from Spain. So in Nieuw Netherlands you find Dutch transliterations of French and other names, not to mention the various dialects of Dutch. Then when the English arrived you find the various English transliterations of those names. So for some persons you can find six or more (arguably valid) variants of the same name recorded for the same person or family.
Regarding FamilySearch it is an amazing compilation of work done by thousands of volunteers working for perhaps a century. But much of what is now online was first compiled into card files and then only more recently computerized. I would not want to estimate the accuracy rate but though it is probably very good, still I have found errors. I would also mention that I have found errors in public records that are supposed to be "archival" quality. You must remember that these records were compiled by humans of varying ability. Generally what I try to do when I find obvious problems with records, is to note the discrepancies between the various sources, rather than removing the suspect ones. That way I leave a trail to follow for the next person who might otherwise get tripped-up at the same places.
Cheers, --Jhamstra 07:02, 15 September 2013 (EDT)
There is a recent biography of Noah Webster that discusses what went for spelling in colonial America. While in the early 1800s, there was something regarded as proper English spelling, as practiced in London, opinions differed whether the new country should follow England or have its own spelling. Even Webster changed philosophies in the course of his life. So spelling was largely phonetic until Webster's 1820 dictionary slowly standardized it (and then different branches of a family would standardize spelling of their name but they might be different). There was no authoritatively correct spelling prior to that: there are some ridiculous spellings in legal documents that were apparently just how it was. Education levels varied and many people couldn't write and relied on others to do their writing. If you follow town records over a long time, you often find the spelling of a surname changed when new town clerks were installed. I have seen wills with a surname spelled three different ways in one document. Chasing one authoritative spelling is applying modern standards to create a false fact. Your only chance is if you have a signature and are talking about one person, and I have seen cases where people signed with different spellings at different times of their lives. --Jrich 10:19, 15 September 2013 (EDT)

Revisions to the Lyle family made 3-4 Jan 2013 [4 January 2014]

Thank you for tidying up my entries to the Lyle family. Those for Martha Maw are subject to change again shortly. I now have the marriage of her parents to enter, and she appears to have had a couple of brothers at least. I have now started to look at the 1841 census for the area as well as parish registers that may have been missed by Family Tree.

Did you have to look up the record for Percy Lyle, or was the name familiar to you? Since I live in the UK I do very little investigation of US records. That is, if it doesn't come for free it doesn't get found (smile). --Goldenoldie 10:45, 4 January 2014 (UTC)


I live in the US of A and I am a very heavy user of FamilySearch.org. It has very good (but not complete) coverage of US vital records. No I was not aware of Percy Lyle or any of the rest of the family. I simply read your Watercooler comment and took a look. Generally if you can find one record for a family you can find more. And I habitually make a Family page for the parents if they are given on a birth or death record. Even if I only know a name it is worth taking the trouble because that is useful information without a single date. Cheers! --Jhamstra 13:55, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Pages without dates or locations tend to make search results very hard to interpret. People don't always have complete information when searching either, so looking for, say, John Smith and his wife Mary can bring back lots of promising looking pages that aren't even close. It is frustrating. Ideally, my preference would be to see people research enough to at least indicate a country and century, or don't create the page. --Jrich 15:45, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
If you would look at the Family pages in question you would see at least one Child listed with a birth or death date. The reasonable presumption would be that the marriage occurred before the child was born.
It seemed to me that you were expounding a general principle ("I habitually make..."), and so that was what I was addressing. While children are listed in search results, any dates and locations on the children pages are not, nor do they affect the sort order so that the entry may be multiple pages down in the list because it was unable to match the location one was looking for, for example. --Jrich 16:51, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
I was expounding a general principle - when I find the names of parents on a birth or marriage or death record I create a Family page for the parents that only has the name(s) of one or both parents. This does not create Person pages for these otherwise unidentified parents so you should not get "empty" Persons showing-up in your search results. But it does capture the important information about family connections so I or someone can circle-back later and try to flesh them out with more information (which may or may not be available). As with any other new pages, one should always check for duplicates. Occasionally I discover that someone has already created a Family page for these parents.
Please note that (unlike GEDCOM) I do NOT create Person pages for parents when I have no further information beyond their names. I find these "empty" Person pages to be as annoying as your do.--Jhamstra 17:19, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
(It's not meant as an accusation, it's a discussion of principles. I appreciate about empty person pages.) People search for families too, in fact, they tend to be the quickest way to find a page, because a combination of two person's names is much more unique than one name - but certainly not absolutely unique still. In fact, family pages are full of ambiguities: is this the maiden name of the wife, or did she have an earlier marriage, or is the page under "unknown". Example from earlier today: I am searching for Joseph Bulkeley and his wife Silence (Keen) Jeffrey or Jeffries m. 25 May 1713, and it is found as Family:Joseph Bulkley and Silence Unknown. Easy to spot in this case because Silence is not common, but say for Mary, or Sarah, or Elizabeth, or Hannah, or Abigail?? It might be pretty far down the list unless a date is matched. So I am arguing, as a principle, people should consider doing enough further research to at least estimate the date of marriage, or perhaps not create the Family page because of the possible confusion it may cause. --Jrich 18:17, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Orren Baldwin Arnold [9 April 2015]

My name is Wayne Arnold and a direct descendent of Orren B and his son Orren James Arnold. I hope to maybe clear up a few different facts as I know of them.
father- James Riley Arnold born in what is now Rochester NY 1795 /Prudence Day wife
Orren Baldwin was born in Upper Canada (Ontario)lennox and addington county in 1834 and married Mariah Taylor first and had 4 children. In 1862 Orren B lived on a farm near Hazleton (called New Lathrop now) The 6th Mich cavalry had recruiters in each county. Orrens county was company D/all black horses as each company tried to have same colors in their companies. O.B. was released from hospital in early 1863 in Washington DC due to the illness called  (consumption )now known as TB. Mariah died shortly after the last daughter was born. The 4 children were handed out for adoption and Orren B kept in contact with oldest son all his life. O.B. moved back to Ontario and remarried Mary Vickery. In the late 1890's  they homesteaded in the North West Territories
just north of Edmonton Alberta. Orren B and Mary are buried together in Edmonton. Hope this helps someone out--Arnie 22:21, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Arnie, This mostly agrees with information I received From Corey Arnold who is also a direct descendant.--Jhamstra 15:44, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

James Mortimer Taylor and Henrietta W. [31 October 2015]

I would like to know source of the 2 pictures in their file, Henrietta is my Great Grandfathers sister. His name was George Clum. I have a picture of George.

John--Labrador 16:09, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

John, These are scanned photos belonging to my family. My Great-Grandmother Ezubah Zeruah Taylor was a sister of James Mortimer Taylor.
By all means, please add to the family of Henrietta Clum on WeRelate!

Greetings! [16 September 2016]

I invite you to examine this page for actual information on what I have been doing. I would be pleased to try to address any questions or concerns you might have. --jrm03063 03:43, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

I have added my specific comments and suggestions on your Talk page. --Jhamstra 15:43, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
I see now - thanks - I'll pick it up there... --jrm03063 15:56, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Sandbox [9 September 2020]

Hi. I thought I would move the sign-in discussion here. I created another test account: Test2, password testmore. Let me know if you can sign into the sandbox with it. If so, I'll set up the trees there - right now there aren't any trees with pages so you won't be able to see the functionality unless you create them yourself. If you still can't sign in, I'll ask Dallan if he can figure out what is going on.--DataAnalyst 17:16, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Same problem. I have tried now on two different computers and three different browsers, with two different sandbox userid/password pairs, with and without https. I have no idea what is wrong. --Jhamstra 06:57, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
Hi. Dumb question, but you are using url sandbox.werelate.org, right?--DataAnalyst 14:09, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
Not such a dumb question - makes me feel like a dummy 8-). I have been too distracted last couple days being gone to the mountains over the holiday weekend and then a grueling board meeting yesterday plus prep plus follow-up. I tried to sandwich-in this test of a feature I requested - but I forgot the most obvious step. See my feedback on the Watercooler page. --Jhamstra 15:07, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
Been there, done that. I totally get it.--DataAnalyst 20:47, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Dorcas Newhouse [20 April 2021]

I found this article after doing some work on Dorcas Newhouse
https://www.oudwinterswijk.nl/emigratie/8-bestemmingen/verenigde-staten/verenigde-staten/
let me know if you need translation.
thx Ron woepwoep 02:21, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
I translated the letter to the brother-in-law that mentions G J Nijenhuis. One possibility is that this was the uncle of Dorcas Newhouse who died in Gelderland? Is this the lead you are pursuing?
My own research interest in Dorcas is her marriage to Sanford Fox who was a cousin of my gr-gr-grandfather Samuel Wilson. --Jhamstra 05:01, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
No worries :-) I am interested in people in a circle of 20 km around my place of birth. this includes Winterswijk.
Also the same article mentions Aaltenaar Adolph Hesselink who was a brother of Dorcas step-father Garrit Hesselink --Jhamstra 11:20, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
Found him woepwoep 04:48, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Date Bijker/Byker [19 July 2021]

The name used in the family page should match the name of the person page or the system gets confused. I changed the family page for Date Bijker but now I am wondering if you would rather have it the other way around. (For sure at birth his name was spelled "Bijker". [1])

(I am working on a connection from one of my genealogy collaborators to the first cousin of the Frisian folk hero Pier Gerlofs Donia. That connection (via Atzo Claasses Nicolaides) also applies to those Bykers I know personally, including the former president of Calvin College, so there is a good chance it will also work for you yourself.)

--pkeegstra 15:36, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Regarding the younger of the two gentlemen you mention, the former president of that college is one of my many cousins. I typically see him about once every three years. When we were children we played together almost every Sunday afternoon. A few months ago I was back in Michigan for a family gathering that included three of his siblings but he was elsewhere.

Regarding the elder of the two gentlemen you mention I am afraid I will have to push-back on your suggestion. Even as children we all knew that both of my Frisian grandfathers had two names - a Dutch name and an American name. The convention I have consistently followed (with very few very good exceptions) for thousands of entries on WeRelate, is that I use the birth names for Persons, and the married names of the spouses for Families. I try to list commonly used alternative names so these should appear in searches. For the gentleman in question there are public records using both names. Among other things his marraige certificate (see image on the Family page) uses the surname Byker whereas other documents use the surname Bijker. I might add that several of his offspring and extended family have seen my work and they seem to be satisfied with how I am handling the alternative names within the extended family. I could offer you several other examples in this family with two names.

Anyone who works with genealogy that spans multiple continents and/or multiple centuries is aware of multiple name variants. I fail to see this as a source of undue confusion. I hope you understand. --Jhamstra 16:57, 19 July 2021 (UTC)


Pages for living people [7 October 2021]

Hi, Jim

I'm sure you're aware that WeRelate doesn't allow pages for living people, and we're getting stricter on enforcement. You were the last contributor on the pages below, all of which are considered to be living by WeRelate policy. If you have or can find death dates, please enter them with sources. Otherwise, these pages will be deleted soon. I usually give about a month, but if you need more time, let me know. Thanks--DataAnalyst 15:09, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Beerda has been deleted - This was an OOPS. Thank you for catching it. --Jhamstra 17:27, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
Person:Alfred Barnick (1) - fixed: "(in infancy)" is sufficient for death date
Person:Betty Zevalkink (1) - fixed (replaced estimated death year with actual death date, with sources)
Person:Evelyn Sanborn (1) - There are problems with her identity in public records. She is now Evelyn Unknown. --Jhamstra 00:07, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
Person:Mary Lobdell (4)
Person:Zelpha Wilson (1)
Person:Rose Evarts (2)
Person:Ethel Sheffield (1)
Person:Katherine Lobdell (1) - FamilySearch says she is deceased but gives no date. --Jhamstra 00:22, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
Person:Jack Shockley (1)
Person:Lorretta Mills (1)
Person:Virginia Goodale (2)
Person:Velma Arnold (2)
Person:Ruth Brown (63)
Person:Nils Lalka (1)
Person:Eva Sheffield (1) - She died after 1957. FamilySearch says she is deceased but gives no date. --Jhamstra 22:32, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Found her in Find A Grave and added her death year.--DataAnalyst 22:24, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
thanks --Jhamstra 22:32, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Person:Magdalena Rittenbach (1)
Person:Francis Arnold (5)
Person:Ralph Lalka (1)
Person:Florence Wilson (19)
Person:Fern Wilson (2)

There are (unsourced) birth and death dates online for many of these people on other genealogy web sites. However I do not consider these sources to be authoritative. I can go ahead and enter this stuff unsourced or alternatively I can enter estimated death dates if you will accept that. I have no problem with the policy regarding living persons. I do have a problem with having to prove from authoritative sources that someone born well over a hundred years ago is actually dead. Some of these people born more recently are known to be dead by relatives of mine. But it does little good for me to state that someone is dead because (for example) my cousin told me her aunt or uncle or cousin had died but my cousin does not remember exactly when her relative died. --Jhamstra 15:33, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
Enter what dates you can find. You can use Ancestry Public Trees or other trees as a source - I know it is not authoritative but it is the best we have for a lot of recent deaths. It you don't trust the trees, add a note to say so. Or enter "bef XXXX" if that is all you have. If your source is a relative, just put that in the citation (e.g., info received from a relative). What I'm trying to avoid is people just putting in "bef 2021" to get the edit to work, when the person is still living.
The edit will no longer accept "est XXXX" for a death year, because too many contributors use "est" when they have no idea if the person is living or deceased.--DataAnalyst 17:42, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
And, also, in terms of someone born over a hundred years ago, we all seem to think that "surely the person has died by now", but I just discovered a relative born in 1912 who is still thriving, so you never know for sure. All the people above were born after her.--DataAnalyst 17:45, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
One person has been removed. The others now have death information with varying degrees of provenance. --Jhamstra 17:27, 7 October 2021 (UTC)