User talk:Cos1776


Welcome to my Talk Page for 2016 [15 March 2016]

Happy New Year! Looking forward to another great year at WeRelate!
Drop me a public message here via the "Add a topic" link to the left. I am happy to correspond about general things or Pages that I am NOT watching here.

If you have a comment or question about a specific WeRelate Page (Person, Family, etc.) that I am watching, please leave your note on the Talk Page there. That way anyone who shares an interest can be included, and we will all be working from the proverbial same page. :)

If you wish to send me a private email, please use the "more" -> "Email this user" link to the left.
Thanks. --Cos1776 20:28, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

My Talk Archives (2009-2015)

Renaming.... [11 January 2016]

Thanks for finding badly named family page names that arose out of my WP addition effort. I tried to get back to as many as I could to make them standard - but it's a big domain. I probably should have written a program to seek them out...

--jrm03063 15:32, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

No worries. :) I remember your project, & I also remember that you did a pretty good job of cleaning up most of the affected titles after the final decision had been made to standardize in the way that we still do. It is only occasionally that I bump into one of these old pages, so I just try to fix the them when I run across them. Best wishes! --Cos1776 15:51, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Abiel ___ Corbit Bugbee [9 February 2016]

FYI, just found a Birth Record for an Abiel Twitchell, needs more investigation, of course.

Medfield Vital Records, p.99

TWICHELL, Abiell, d. Benjamin and Marie, [born] Nov. 1, 1663.--SkippyG 22:20, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes. I see the changes on her page and those surrounding it, and I am fine with all of it. I am going to add a couple more sources to her page to round it all out. Thanks. --Cos1776

sakers genealogy [15 March 2016]

i dont know if you remember me or not but i am brenda sakers ober and i aslo doing a search for my saker(sakers) family, i have reached out to the zion church in baltimore maryland to find the marriage record for william saker and catharine scott married on july 31 1793 to find out who the parents of william are. I contacted maryland historical society and they had no info on william, they gave me the church's number and contacted them today (march15) and talked to a Nicole Cochrane and she said they have the records for that year and to email this a Ms. Arnold and I am waiting for her response as soon as i get a response i will contact you with the information. i was wondering if by chance you contacted the church at all about the marriage records for william. here is my personal email if you would like to have it so is might be easier to contact me ober24(at) thanks brenda sakers ober--Ober24 16:13, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

William Saker is one of my brick walls as well. Let's discuss this research on his Talk Page. Thanks, --cos1776 14:50, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

obituary of user [6 April 2016]

I'm not sure of the protocal on this so thought I'd ask you. Here is a link to the obituary of prior User:Persisto. I thought about putting it on his user page but was too hesitant. What do you think? Should it even be on his user page? Is the obit under copyright? | I may not get back to this. Would you do whatever you think is proper with it? --janiejac 14:35, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Very good question. I'm not sure, but I agree that some type of note is appropriate. I will work on this. Thanks, --cos1776 14:50, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

james beasley [7 April 2016]

hi costco . i noticed the comment you had made on research on james beasley civil war records duryea zouves 5th volunteer ny. i have his cw papers and pension papers also the guardship papers for his kids. maybe to help you help me i can give you his id# could that help. his wife emily soon after childbirth of his last child Iretus b.1862/63. on letters of testament my thomas pollock and a mary bragdon (nee Craft) wifeof isaiah bragdon,signed the testament letter to release iames children to a john w ledyard of philadelphia pa. after emily died. that was signed in 1874. JWL was emilys sistersellen pollock. james and emily had 3 ch. mary,thomas and iretus(oretus) mary beasley married a thomas rushforth. the bragdons both came from maine. they lived close by pollocks in yonkers ny - craft family also lived in maine and yonkers . cant figure oout if the pollocks were related to them in any way. i have found a thomas pollock in approx same area but cant connect them. york and i think kennebunk me. can you help. your so great in my search. tku for helping.
joan pollock gass 11:53, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

I think I have responded to this already. Best Wishes. --cos1776 14:50, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Henry Lampton and Susanna Holmes [13 May 2016]

I was just looking at your list of children for Henry Lampton and Susanna Holmes and was wondering if there could perhaps have been one more child. Or maybe you know something about this person.

I have a record of an Elizabeth Lampton as a child of Henry Lampton and Susanna Homes. She would have been born about 1770-1779 and married Freeborn Jupin. Tbe record I have are records from a family history and Ancestry. I actually found a number of children that you don't have listed on

Have any thoughts?--Tom.s.010101 02:33, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

I take that back. The only additional child Ancestry shows is Elizabeth Lampton Jupin.--Tom.s.010101 02:36, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

OC [31 May 2016]

Did you miss the email for joining the discussiion page, let me know I can resend it if needed.--Rhian 13:30, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

I have responded to you privately. Thanks. --cos1776 14:50, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Ordering census sources [22 June 2016]

I saw your comment in answer to janiejac's suggestion about ordering census sources. I completely agree that census-type sources (which should always include the transcription of the census for the family) should be listed in chronological order. Also, it is only necessary to quote a census once for a person. Some early WR users used three sources for one census: one for the address, one for the occupation, and one for the age of the person!

Dallan and I exchanged emails on this topic last weekend. We are working on rewriting the titles for the boxes in the Source template so that they are more explanatory, particularly when being used for census details, since this is the commonest use of sources for most people. We are also thinking about mentor discussions with new WR users as they present their gedcoms. After all, this is the easiest place for changes to be made.

I haven't seen any changes to the OC-Committee Google Group page since 12 June. Is anything happening "off-stage"? --Goldenoldie 21:17, 22 June 2016 (UTC) (Pat)

I am going to respond to you privately. Thanks. --cos1776 21:28, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Lincoln, Lincolnshire. [25 June 2016]

Hi Cos

Whatever made you delete the image galleries on Lincoln today of all days? This morning I wrote to Cynthia asking her to explain why a similar group was on the Southampton page. Just checked. They are gone, too.

Both sets had no purpose where they were (just like the wheelbarrow full of weeds I just took out of my garden). Thanks. Pat. --Goldenoldie 14:38, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Good Morning (almost afternoon here). I gave an explanation at User talk:Cynthia. I apologize that I didn't notice that you were not watching that page. If you come across the same situation again, please feel free to let me know, and I can fix those as well. Regards, --cos1776 16:01, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Re: Adding templates [4 July 2016]

Thanks for the alert, and my apologies for the mistake. Hopefully, I can clean it up. Gayel--GayelKnott 17:24, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Greetje AEdes [9 July 2016]

Please note that "AEdes" is consistent with Dutch spelling conventions. The ligatures "AE" and "OE", like the more common one "IJ", are capitalized as units. --pkeegstra 20:17, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

I will respond over at Person:Greetje AEdes (2) in a few moments. Thanks.--cos1776 12:11, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Sources Needed 1 [17 July 2016]

Not many people are as gung ho about sources as I am. However, I noticed certain changes you made to this page, diff, where you deleted several source citations and then added a sources-needed template. Noticing by the dates that this page should allow for at least some use of easily available census source, I was going to try and actually improve the page, and one of the first things I noticed was that one of the deleted sources had enough information to link to this website. While worldconnect is not always a good source, this particular one contains an obituary and is a very useful link, that probably shouldn't have been deleted. I appreciate marking pages that need improvement, but feel it should be done only after exhausting obvious attempts at improvement. Formulaic cleanup obviously adds no information, so ultimately in terms of quality, leaves the page no better off, so by itself, represents no progress. --Jrich 19:52, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

I was alerted to that page because of the incorrect page title, so that was the extent of my interest in it. What was there before was a married name where an unknown maiden name should have been. I fixed that and while I was at it, removed the 3 repeated references to 2 MySources for other people's online trees which had no links and added a banner calling for reliable sources. You came along, took an interest in the page from a different angle, did a little digging and now you have meatier sources to add. Seems like the system is working just fine. --cos1776 20:39, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
The information I added came largely from one of the sources you deleted, which identifies a worldconnect page thatgives a transcription of the Alton Telegraph obituary and mentions both the 1850 and 1860 census, of which I only cited the first because it was sufficient to show why the birth information was given. The worldconnect Mysource had a database number which is the same thing as link, and the index found there allows you to look up an individual page in that database by name. So it is very comparable to a memorial number for Find A Grave is essentially equivalent to a link. I just investigated it to make sure useful information wasn't being thrown away, which it was. Just because it is a MySource is not grounds for deleting it. I have created several for example, that contain transcriptions of unique documents in my possession. --Jrich 22:09, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Incorrect. I didn't remove them because they were MySources. I removed them because they were simply citing someone else's tree vs. the actual source. As you said, a simple search turned up the actual sources and that is what should have been cited in the first place. You say you have now done that, so mission accomplished. --cos1776 22:26, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
More fool me for doing work you should done. Congratulations on accomplishing your mission. --Jrich 23:11, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Neither you nor I should have to do the work the original poster should have done themselves. We do what we do because we are trying to make this site better. I am not working against you, but I am done with this exchange, because I do not like your tone. --cos1776 23:48, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
First of all, that's not very practical as the page was entered in 2008 and the original poster is probably not active and further, probably didn't get your memo about sources needed. So they learned nothing.
Second to the extent the page had value, it did because it said where it took its data and the family tree it identified did give sources. In other words, it was a useful posting, and you deleted that value, and then complained that it had no sources.
Third it is not just citing someone's tree that are bad, it is citing unsourced trees, which, since they have no sources, is ultimately the same as citing no sources. Some sourced trees are excellent and offer information that is hard to find anywhere else. Yes a good thing to do with a sourced tree is to bring forward the sources, but if one doesn't have access to them to verify them, or isn't a good typer and there's a lot of data, or is worried about copyright infringement in doing so, or want to make sure the site gets credit for their hard work, it may not be as straightforward as that. Further, many people will not understand or expect this as desirable because almost no other website on the Internet would expect them to do that. This page at least said where the information came from and this is a lot more than some current postings I have been fixing do. --Jrich 00:20, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Bexleyheath Revisions [18 July 2016]


Why did you take out references to Greater London in the write-up of Bexleyheath? Greater London is the official name for the complete area of London since 1965.

Greater London is made up of boroughs and Bexleyheath is a large part of the London Borough of Bexley. Granted Bexleyheath was in Kent until 1965, but it has been in London for 50 years--potentially a lot of BMDs to be accounted for in that period.

If Greater London is removed from Bexleyheath, it should be removed for every other section of London, both "Inner" and "Outer". Please read the Greater London page in WR. It contains a lot of information that I could not see how to replicate throughout the individual pages covering the parts of London. --Goldenoldie 04:42, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Good Morning. I am packing my children for camp today, so I cannot respond right away, but I will do so over on Place talk:Bexleyheath, Kent, England as soon as I get a few minutes. Regards, --cos1776 12:51, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

OC-Committee [22 July 2016]

Hi I am writing this to you and to pckeegstra and BobC. We appear to be the only active members of the OC-committee.

I have been trying to get my thoughts in order since we discussed possible reorganization of the Source box around 10th July. As I explained then, our household situation is not a smooth one. However, the work on the Source box has now moved out to the Watercooler without our really coming to a consensus. Have we reached any conclusions we can put to Dallan? From what he told me when he and I last discussed things, he should be freer of other commitments now than he was then.

Unfortunately, in the past 48 hours some section of my computer or my browser has denied me entry to our google groups OC-committee message board. The pinned tag I had leads to another organization completely. Can any of you help put me back into the right link?

Thanks. Pat --Goldenoldie 06:40, 21 July 2016 (UTC)--Goldenoldie 06:44, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Have responded privately. Thanks. --cos1776 10:50, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Barton Manor [24 July 2016]

Where did it go? Did you delete it? I'm sorry, but I close down my computer around 9pm our time every night and it's not usual for me to start again before 6:30am. It's only just past that now. I was going to inspect Barton Manor, but you didn't give me a chance.

How did you remove it? I usually redirect insignificant places to the parish in which they are located.

--Goldenoldie 05:46, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

It's still there (here). It's in the Article space and not the Place space.--pkeegstra 10:31, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

This looks like one of those automatically produced categories that were discussed on Watercooler a few weeks ago. I haven't a clue as to what stage in the process brings them into existence. Possibly it occurs when a place is redirected to another place.

Barton Manor is a manor in the parish of Whippingham on the Isle of Wight. The Family History Library Catalog has filed it separately and the half dozen or so filenames have been copied into our Source database. I have been redirecting most places below the level of parish into the parish in which they are located although I make exceptions for larger places which I usually denote as "areas" (see London, England where the reorganization is incomplete). Sources are automatically refiled along with the place when the place is redirected (provided there are no typos).

I have now expanded the description for Whippingham to include a mention of all its manors. A Vision of Britain through Time lists a number of manors in each parish on the Isle of Wight and in a number of Hampshire parishes too. I considered listing them for each parish, but decided I had better things to do.

If nothing happens to the "Place" part of the database when you delete the "Article", by all means delete the Article.

--Goldenoldie 13:30, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

No worries, but I think there might be a misunderstanding taking place due to terminology. Please forgive me if I revert to simplistic terms or rehash information that you already know in an effort to try to clear it up. The page in question was not of the type "Place" or "Category", but rather "Article". It was created on the same day and at the same time that you were working on the page Place:Whippingham, Isle of Wight, England, so I am guessing that it may have been accidentally created. This is not a problem at all and is easy to fix. I will do so shortly, and since it does not link to anything, it will have no effect on any other pages.
re: the "automatically produced categories" - they are simple to explain but can be confusing to anticipate. They are not created when a page is redirected, as far as I know. They are created when text is entered in certain data fields, depending on the page type. The original purpose was to auto-generate and auto-populate WR Category pages that would group and list WR pages that had something in common.
For Place pages, it would appear that the decision was made to group them in the category hierarchy at the county level, so that is why Place pages such as Place:Dublin, Wayne, Indiana, United States and Place:Wayne, Indiana, United States both appear in Category:Wayne, Indiana, United States.
But, here is where it can get confusing - if you look at Category:Wayne, Indiana, United States, you can see that there is also a sub-category called "Category:Dublin, Wayne, Indiana, United States". If you look at this sub-category page, you can see that Dublin's Place page is not listed there. Some think that it should be, so they edit Dublin's Place page to manually link it to the Dublin Category as well. This causes some problems, because that is not the way that a wiki category hierarchy is supposed to be structured. Generally speaking, a page should rarely be linked to both a parent Category and its child (sub) Category.
Now, it is quite understandable why folks are doing this. Not only does it seem intuitive that a Place page should be linked to the matching Category, but it is also best practice to categorize a wiki page as low down in the hierarchy as possible. Unfortunately, I think this is part of what has made the Category structure so confusing and inconsistent.
But back to auto-generated category pages... the sub-Category above, Category:Dublin, Wayne, Indiana, United States, is also an auto-generated Category, but this time, it lists pages of the type "MySource", "Source", "Transcript", "User" or "Image". They are there because they were either manually or automatically linked to that Category. How were they automatically linked? By virtue of their having the text string "Dublin, Wayne, Indiana, United States" (or a WR acceptable alternate) entered into their Place fields. If any one of those pages had anything else entered into the Place field - something that WR didn't recognize as being the same Dublin - the page would not be included there. It would instead be auto-linked to another Category page matching whatever had been entered. These variations can include misspellings, quirky nicknames, incomplete names, etc. This is why we have so many incorrect, quirky Place Category pages being auto-generated. It is all based upon how well the data is entered and how many alternates are recognized.
This process is the same for auto-generated Surname Categories, based on what is entered in the Surname fields, and then compounded by auto-generated "Surname in Place" Categories, based on both fields... so you can imagine how large this issue is. To fix it, absent a bot, each page must be manually edited to fix the relevant text string, so that the page will be linked to the correct Category page.
I hope this explanation about how Category pages are being created and linked to "automatically" is helpful.
Now, I am curious about something related to this... We haven't really discussed this yet, so I am unaware of the reasoning behind it, but it looks like you (and maybe others) made a decision to structure the Category hierarchy differently for English Place pages by linking them both to the county (auto) Category and a series of additional Categories - one for the Place itself and others based on the "See also" Places. (For example, Place:Whippingham, Isle of Wight, England)
Can you fill me in on the reasoning behind those decisions?
Likewise, I am also curious about why the "See also" field is being used instead of the "Also located in" field to list all of the Places in which the English Places were also located? I'm worried that you might be creating a lot more work for yourself by manually doing all of these entries and then building your own tables, etc. instead of letting the software create the pages and tables the way it was designed to do. Or perhaps there are some changes that need to be made to the Place pages to help them function more efficiently? I did think your suggestion about allowing place type to be different based on location and/or time to be an excellent one.
I welcome your thoughts on these matters. Regards, --cos1776 12:34, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Restore my rights [24 July 2016]

I wish you would have spoken to me before you removed my admin rights. I am only deleting work of mine that is more recent. I wasn't going to leave this site, I only intended to remove my more recent work, but now that you have done so without a word to me I don't think I will edit on this site ever again.--Daniel Maxwell 18:34, 24 July 2016 (UTC)