User talk:Quolla6


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Archive through Nov 2013


HAYS Surname in Old Augusta, SW Viriginia and Beyond [16 July 2014]


I am a descendant (with Y-DNA tests) of a branch of the HAYS family that settled into Borden Grant before 1740 and, over the decades, migrated down the Shenandoah Valley into SW Virginia and then on to Tennessee, Kentucky and later Missouri(and elsewhere). I have looked at your Tapestry project from time to time with great interest. I saw that the HAYS/HAYES surname was considered for in-depth research and was curious whether that occurred already or was planned for the future?

It would be my pleasure to assist in a project on the HAYS surname in the target area. I have already spent untold hours in personal research and a small fortune on professional genealogists. In other words, I already have a decent base of what is known and unknown on these HAYS people; however, it's too large of a project for one person.

I believe the "WeRelate" wiki format is a superior means of getting accurate information and arbitrating disputed facts. I have expended some minor effort adding some of my family members but have found the process of documenting sources somewhat clunky and difficult. I feel my involvement in a larger project would provide the reason to get better acquainted with the process of creating these pages and documenting the sources.

Regards, Mark A. Hays (925) 323-4300--Motohays 17:38, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Mark
Its still something for the future. I think the Hays line may be one of those "linch pins", that fits into a number of other lines at critical points. My hope is that understanding the Hays lineage, will eventually help clarify these other lines as well. But getting to the Hays' is still sometime off. Moving up higher in the queue but still a ways off. But if you'd like to take a swing at them please feel free. If you want to proceed with it I can lend a hand with some of the formatting associated with the Tapestry. The Navigation templates are a bit complex, if you aren't used to the idea of transclusions. And since these are nested templates, it can get a bit complex.
And I agree, unfortunately, with the comments about "clunkiness". WeRelate can be used effectively to document sources, but its not really clear how some of the options should be used. Its certainly not intuitive. Which means different folks use different options. On the other hand, its a better set-up than most other systems employ.

Q 00:35, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Mark, I'd like to add that it may be easier to break up your research into different "branches" of the Hays family, possibly broken up into geographic regions, listing the records of each branch. This has proven useful in other Tapestry families, and is likely easier for other interested researchers to follow/understand. Bill (Quolla6) and I have done much of the "heavy lifting" in Augusta County, so whatever positive contributions you can make would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Delijim - 17 December 2013

It is a partnership, this effort. I'm sure I speak for Jim as well as myself, that we'd love to have someone else involved in this. I should also add that while I help out with Old Augusta, its Jim that's really doing the heavy lifting.Q 01:06, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello Jim and Bill,

I was delighted to see some additional information on my HAYS people in Virginia and Tennessee; specifically the correct parentage of John Coffee Hays as Harmon A. Hays and Elizabeth Cage. I've had those facts for a while and have been dismayed by the unfortunate propagation of bad information in Emma Siggins White's work on the Walkers.

I'm curious why Harmon's parents have not been added. Is there additional research required or some disputed facts? I have seen previous research mistakes that give Harmon's father as Col. Robert Hays. There is no doubt (in my mind at least) that Harman's parents are John Hays and Rebecca Maxwell (widow of Thomas Maxwell) based on Wilson Co. Deed and Will book entries.

Also, I recently found additional evidence that proves that Robert could not be Harmon's father. If you're interested, you can search in their "War of 1812 Collection" for Harmon Hays. There are a few hits for Harman but there is a particular entry under "Letters to the Adjutant General" concerning Harman's resignation as 2nd Lt. of the Light Dragoons. In his resignation letter he explains to his colonels that his mother has recently written and informed him that the estate of his late father is finally being devised due to a family member that will be traveling back to Tennessee ( from Mississippi if memory serves?) to finalize settlement. This letter is written in Spring of 1814 which fits the estimated death of John Hays in late 1811. My understanding is that Col. Robert Hays did not pass away until 1819. (Q.E.D.??). I understand there is a letter from Harman to Robert that references Robert as "uncle" but I've yet to get a copy.

I personally have photocopies of Wythe Co. Court Order Book entries, land survey and tax records that provide circumstantial evidence that this John Hays lived on the Holston River in the Rich Valley and was Capt. of the local militia. I know when this John left the Holston from these documents. My 4th GGF, William Hays, had his land immediately adjacent to John and was promoted from lieutenant to captain in place of John when he removed to TN. I also know that Rebecca was in the same part of southwest Virginia since she and John deeded land originally owned by Thomas Maxwell in Tazewell Co. on the Clinch River. I've done some research and have information on another family group of HAYSes that lived on the Clinch River in present-day Tazewell/Russell counties. The land owned by my William and his neighbor (likely brother) John Hays is only about 10 miles from the Tazewell/Russell Co. HAYSes which makes me believe they were somehow related. It's also very interesting (to me at least) that a James and Rebeckah Hays from this Clinch HAYS family group sold 400 acres in Feb 1797 after they were already living in Nashville, Davidson Co., TN for some time.

Anyway, it's getting late so I'll end this now but feel free to contact me for additional info or clarification. I shared my mobile phone earlier.

Regards, Mark A. Hays--motohays 08:42, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

HI Mark

While I have an interest in the Hays line, I've not done much personal research on them. Most of what's there is most likely the work of DeliJim. Almost all published genealogies, such as White 1902, have their share of missteps. Usually, those missteps can be laid to the feet of failure to document "facts" with original source documentation. I've not looked at the Hays cards currently on WeRelate to see how well they are documented, but judging between different possibilities always rests on comparison of the original source documentation to see what's best supported. That supporting documentation does not always make its way into the articles immediately. If you agree with what's there now, that's good. If you have additional information to add to the materials, that's also good. If that's something that you aren't in a position to do, that's okay. Eventually, we'll get there. Whether we get there anytime soon depends on what else we are doing at the moment. There are probably 10K worth of documentable people in Old Augusta during the Tapestry people. Last time I checked I think we (mostly Jim) had at least captured cards for about 60% of them. That's pretty amazing all things considered, but that means we probably have about 4K worth of persons yet to add, let alone document. Which is to say, when we get to the Hay's in the process is "probably no time soon". But again, please feel free to document what you have. Anything you add will be gratefully appreciated. Q 13:43, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello - I think that I am the one that "fixed" the parent info for Col. "Jack" Hays and originally added Harmon's page, so I just wanted to jump in and answer Mark's question about why Harmon's parents weren't originally added. The simple answer is that I just hadn't gotten to it yet... :) I use WR as a living project and usually add pages one at a time (vs. GEDCOM upload), so, as mentioned before data entry can be time consuming. I always welcome sourced corrections by more knowledgable researchers, so I am happy to see Mark's well-sourced information being added to the pages. I have also been trying to document old, disproven theories (i.e. where they came from, why they are wrong, etc.) in an effort to keep them from leading new researchers astray again. Mark - please feel free to add your expertise in this area as well. There are some WeRelate style conventions that we are asked to follow of which you might not be aware, so I will make a couple of minor editorial tweaks to some of the pages to demonstrate those for you (in the next week or so). Please feel free to ask if you have any questions. I have been trying to take a break from this during this summer while my kids are home, but it is proving hard to stay away :) Best Wishes --Cos1776 16:00, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello Bill,

We have recently exchanged comments and modifications on my William Hays page. I have a few questions on) 1. formatting in general, 2. adding multi-page PDFs that include text and images together, 3. creating "places" that are the equivalent of another place (eg. when the location is the same but the county changes), 4. understanding your resources and contacts to gather documents, if any.

Also, I would like to share with you information on my HAYS research which might be helpful as you seem to be picking up the HAYS family connections from Borden and Beverley Manor Grant. If you have an interest, I here offer to add you as a guest on my family tree to have a look at all the original documents that I have gathered; for instance, I have photocopies of the original Orange County records for John and Patrick's importation. I have many other documents in my possession.

Anyway, do you mind having a quick phone conversation? I have been in the IT industry since '86 and, as such, have carpal tunnel issues which makes long comments explaining my research and questions painful. :-) I can deal with it, of course, but a quick call might expedite.

Regards, --motohays 21:35, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

I'd be happy to share thoughts. I've sent you an email address with contact information.Q 01:23, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
I got an email that the page was changed but didn't receive any other messages. I checked my profile and it has the proper email address but just in case you have an old one my most recent is Thanks.

--motohays 21:08, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Duplicate Pages for Old Augusta [21 December 2013]

Hi Bill, a while ago, I think you created a duplicate Old Augusta Settlers page that appears to contain much of the same information as the original Early Settlers of Old Augusta County. I made some changes to the "outlying areas" listing and copied the same changes over to the other page. Do you want to re-direct one of the pages to the other to eliminate the duplicate portions, or would it be easier to separate the information on the pages so it isn't duplicated? Whatever you do is fine with me. Best regards and have a great weekend,

Jim:)--Delijim 16:30, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
I'll Look it over. And have a Very Merry Christmas. Q 18:18, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Questioning use of Personal Data table [26 December 2013]

I appreciate that you have created many useful templates and standard table formats, and that some of them probably go back to the early days of WeRelate, when the formatting of a standard WeRelate page might not have been as pleasing as it is today. However, I wonder about the continued use of the Personal Data table, as it simply duplicates info that is in the facts. Not only does this make 2 places to make corrections, but it increases the complexity for the casual user (which I am not, but still ...).

I just updated Moses McSpadden and left the Personal Data table there, but really would prefer to delete at least the top part of it. I can see leaving his children listed, at least until such time as someone decides to create separate person pages for them. But the top part is simply redundant (other than the note on alt birth year, which could be moved elsewhere, although personally I wouldn't even bother mentioning it).

One of the problems I note with the table is that it has such an "official" look to it that it is not clear whether this is just another way of presenting the facts or a citation from an unidentified source (I'm sure you've seen lots of cases of that). Therefore, some people making additions/corrections to the page might decide to fix the WeRelate facts, but leave the Personal Data table alone, being uncertain about its origin - in fact, I almost did that until I realized what the table was. I'm not sure what can/should be done about that, other than putting all the facts in the proper WeRelate places and dispensing with the table. Do you have a problem if I remove the table or parts of the table where I come across it, being sure to leave information (such as the children of Moses McSpadden) that is not elsewhere?--DataAnalyst 17:21, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

That was a technique I used early on when I first started working on WeRelate. I've experimented with a number of techniques for storing information in a way that would be useful for later evaluation and analysis. This is one of them. Some of them proved less useful than others. These particular tables were useful at the time, but since then Dallan has added a number of features that allow better documentation and display of that kind of information. The data tables such as the one you refer to on the Moses McSpadden page, are now largely unneeded. Sometimes they are still useful, when there's enough data available. For example, they remain helpful when looking at dispersion problems for the children. Nonetheless, as a rule, I gradually delete them and incorporate the data into the page as I come across them., so feel free to have your way with them. (G). Q 17:32, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Another David Campbell [31 December 2013]

Hi Bill, first of all, Happy New Year to you and your family.:) I've got another Augusta County David Campbell for you to ponder. This one was born in Chester County, PA in 1761 and migrated with his parents in abt. 1767, per his Revolutionary War Pension Application. Maybe you can place him with one of the later Campbell families that migrated to Augusta....

Take care and best regards,

Jim--Delijim 14:04, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Charles Campbell [1 January 2014]

Hi again Bill, working some Campbell's in Augusta County. I've added some information to the page of Charles Campbell. There are some Ancestry Member Trees citing him as a son of Hugh Campbell and Esther McGill, which appears certainly plausible. There are others claiming he was a son of Charles Campbell and Mary Trotter, but it appears that is unfounded, a different Charles Campbell appears to be their son. Let me know what you think.

Best regards,

Jim:)--Delijim 15:25, 31 December 2013 (UTC)


I did a data extraction from Ancestry family trees for both couples, Charles Campbell= Mary Alexander, and Charles Campbell=Mary Trotter. While parents range all over the place, the vita for Charles Campbell in these two couples are fairly consistent.

Charles Campbell=Mary Trotter

DOB=1703 Ireland
DOM=1725 Ireland
DOD=1778 Augusta

Charles Campbell=Mary Alexander

DOB=1758 Augusta
DOM=1785 Augusta
DOD=1812, Kentucky

There's always at least a little abit of variation in these trees, but the above are typical for the person, and the exceptions are largely trivial variations.

Parents, on the other hand, vary considerably. The most common combinations are:

Charles Campbell=Mary Trotter

Robert Campbell=Margaret Trotter
Robert Campbell=Jane Stuart/Stewart

Charles Campbell=Mary Alexander

Hugh Campbell=Esther Magill
Patrick Campbell= Elizabeth James
Charles Campbell=Mary Trotter

Checking Ancestry entries, of course, only gives you what people think. Some of them may have really good reasons to think what they think, but most do not, and their entries are riddle with errors. Undoubtedly there's a reason behind the errors that are made. Traceing backwards we can sometimes work out why they make the errors they do. (They might, for example, have a confusion between father and son), leading to intermixing dates from both in a single entry. Sometimes they are just guessing.

While the parent listings vary considerably, most of the vita are reasonably consistent. Indicating that there are indeed two separate couples involved here. Chalres Campbell married to mary Trotter is the earlier couple. Charles Campbell = Mary Alexander MAY be their son.


Robert Gwinn changes [23 January 2014]

It appears that this new user has discarded quite a bit of information that was useful and added a few things that I don't necessarily agree with..... I'm tempted to rollback his page and have a "conversation" with the user, what do you think?

Jim:)--Delijim 19:39, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Overall, I'd say roll-back. Some of his reasoning seems "reasonable", but I've not dissected it to get to the bottom line. At this stage in his development on WeRelate he's into making changes based on what he believes to be true, but doesn't understand the importance of showing why he thinks something is so. i.e., once he's reached a conclusion, its "right" so there's no need to explain the reasoning for the benefit of those that come later. As for example, his statement that the line didn't come from Wales, as YDNA results show this is not true. He has his reasoning for that, but I think its based on a limited, naive understanding of YDNA. The question is "will he continue to work on WeRelate? If so, than this line might benefit from his input. He's certainly spent more time with the lineage than we have. If he's pretty much "one and done", then it doesn't matter, and he won't be around in the future to respond to queries about why he made these changes. Q 13:15, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Again, to clear up this misunderstanding, I was not planning on being a "one and done." I have a great deal of material on the Gwin(n) family and also have relationships to others who have done some outstanding original research into this family. I was very excited to register with the website to begin this process. I apologize to you if I have violated your rules by removing some unsourced material and cleaning up some redundant material. However, I am somewhat disappointed to read the comments above--especially that you seem to have drawn some conclusions about my "naïve understanding of YDNA." It reminds me of two people talking within earshot of a third--as in "I can still hear you, you know." LOL!

Hence the importance of communication and collaboration in a "wiki" environment.... :) Certainly not the first time that Bill or I have been "surprised" by changes to Person Pages on WeRelate.... As far as YDNA, I'm sure Bill has probably forgotten more about DNA analysis than I'll ever know, so I'll leave that discussion up to you two "experts"... :) Have a great week,


andrew cowan of Sullivan [20 January 2014]

Who is this Andrew? He has my Robert Cowan's birth and death dates????

da--DAtkinson 03:37, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Good question. This is a common enough problem, and is usually an indication that somewhere along the line someone (no idea who) has merged information about two separate persons with the same name or vary similar name. Alternatively, someone has misattached some to their lineage, simply based on the similarity of the name. Sounds like something for discussion on the CowanShortList Q 13:38, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Robert Cowan (20) [24 January 2014]

I had an e-mail saying you had changed this site but don't see any comments.

Did you add something?

da--DAtkinson 14:43, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Just doing some format tidying. Added a Block quote, and removed a errant blank space at the head of a paragraph (The blank at the start of a paragraph is subtle que to the wikimedia program to change the font to times roman. The site owner uses it for some specialized formatting, but for most of us, it just makes things look strange). Q 14:44, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Jane Wright [19 February 2014]

Do you know anything more about this David Cowan and Jane Wright? DNA?

da--DAtkinson 02:18, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi Diane
Sure do!. This is the David (sort of) that was being discussed on the list before I got entangled in looking at Old 96. I haven't got back to them, but I will. In essence, the problem is that there are two David Cowan's, both married to a Jane. One married a Jane Wright, the other we only know her name was "Jane". People have assumed that David Cowan of the Seven Brothers was married to Jane Wright, and you see that consistently in his Ancestry lineages. I believe this is an error. The key records describe the David Cowan who married Jane Wright as living in Jefferson County. Its a VA record. In Tennessee there's a Jefferson County adjacent/near Sevier County, and folks just assume that this is Person:David Cowan (1) who is well documented in living in Sevier. However, since the record in question is a Virginia record, when it says "Jefferson County", what is meant is "Jefferson County, Virginia". There's no Jefferson County Virginia today, but there once was. It is now Jefferson County West Virginia. That's where the David Cowan who married Jane Wright lived. As to David of Sevier, yes we have at least one kit that traces descent from him. He's in the 7B Core group. I've never seen a YDNA kit for the other David Cowan. Probably isn't one, or they haven't provided their lineage data on FTDNA. Might find it elsewhere if one looked diligently, but I suspect not. Q 11:49, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Another Cowan Dilemma [22 February 2014]

Hi Bill, I know you've been working on the Cowan's in Virginia, and I've been adding records for some in Lunenburg County, maybe you can take a look at them and see if you see them fitting with any others...

Unknown Cowan and Unknown (4)

Thanks and best regards,

Jim:)--Delijim 19:25, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi Jim

As you might have noticed or guessed, this is a complex lineage, much trodden over, and perhaps trodden down, by earlier genealogists. There's a lot of misinformation out there, probably resulting from the blending of data for different folks, and furthered by the lack of hard original source data to support some of the views. There may be a family of Cowans in Lunenberg County that fits some of these descriptions. Its unlikely that they are related to the Seven Brothers line, but I suppose one could craft a very strange migratory path that placed some of the Seven Brothers in Lunenberg County. However, I don't know that there's supporting information for something like that. The Robert Cowan (10)=Susannah Woods is clearly Seven Brothers by YDNA. How he fits in is unclear. He's not one of the traditional Seven Brothers per Fleming, though Fleming does identify him as a son of Major John Cowan, based on his racing of the letters of JB Cowan, and the writings of "Mrs Dunavant" of the DAR. Unfortunately, there's no evidence for Major John Cowan=Mary Walker in Southwest Virginia. Such a person may have existed somewhere, but not in SW VA. Its a very complex story, but to cut to its core, there were two separate story lines, one involving the Margaretsister of Samuel Handley (who was kinsman to the Cowans in the Nine-Mile Creek area of Blount County. Her husband (John I believe) was killed by Indians while going west from Virginia; while Margaret was taken captive The other line is the story of Samuel Cowan and wife Ann Walker. Samuel was also killed (in SW VA) and wife Ann taken captive. These two separate stories were passed down orally though the Nine-Mile Creek Cowan families. JB Cowan was a descendant of this line (From John Cowan son of Samuel and Ann, and also kinsmen of Samuel Handley. In old age he wrote a series of letters from memory, having lost all of his family documentation in a house fire some years previously. He conflated the two stories, and came up with Major John=Mary Walker--- couple who never existed. Fleming used his letterers to craft his interpretation of the family relationship. There's a lot more to the tale, but the waters get deep and muddy very quickly. There's a series of articles on WeRelate that dissect the surviving information. I will be speaking shortly about the issues on the CowanShortList, and I'll cross post to the Tapestry. Q 00:34, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Bill, I had an inkling that the John Cowan/Mary Walker family may have been someone's fantasy since (as you noted) there seems to be no sources to substantiate. The one that appears to have merit in Lunenburg is the William Cowan/Mary Billups family, where there ARE records [Marriage Bond and other] to substantiate their marriage and at least two children....

Best regards,


John willis, son of Abner and Eva [20 April 2018]

I have recently joined Wikitree and found a reference to John Willis, son of Abner. The person has referred to Abner and Eve's daughter Martha as well. I'M pretty sure he is using the info from Abner and Eve' bio. Could you take a look at the children section under John and see if that needs to be corrected? I don't want to edit your work.--ruthnevada 21:05, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi RuthNevada. I checked John son of Abner. I've not added any of his children. Person:John_Willis_(55). My focus is pretty much pre-1800, and I don't usually pursue descendant lines unless there's a specific need. The gentleman who's article you are looking at asked me a few weeks ago for permission to use the bio---which of course is OK, as long as he properly credits h is source. That could either be to me as the source, or less desirably from my perspective, WeRelate. (Or he could get it from one of the other locations where the bio has made its way to. Though those other sources are not maintained, or updated (at least by me.) But it needs to be sourced. Otherwise there's a plagiarism issue. In any case, please feel free to modify whatever you find needs modifying. I like to have things right, whether its my work or someone else's work. Getting it right is the important part. Q 21:46, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

It looks like my comment was making it sound like Martha was the son of Abner's son John. What I was trying to say was that you have MARTHA as being a daughter of Abner in the Abner and Eve Willis bio. Many people use your wonderful bio but I don't believe Martha is a daughter. I remember you and I having a conversation about that. I was suggesting that maybe you could edit it. There are many trees on Ancestry that incorrectly list Martha as a daughter to Abner that they obviously pulled from the bio. Ruthnevada--ruthnevada 13:21, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi Ruth

Perhaps you could explain why you do not believe Martha is the daughter of Abner and Eve. Its been very long time since I worked on Abner and Eve, but if recollection serves me, I think there were fairly good reasons for reaching that conclusion. But one can always have a slip of the typewriter, and put down an errant connection, or a slip of memory. If you could explain why you think Martha is not the daughter of Abner and Eve, it would be helpful. Q 15:49, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Because there was no Martha.--Hastys 13:38, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Thomas Black [13 June 2014]

Hello, What if any is your relationship to Thomas Black?--Jimmythejet 16:08, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Possible kinsman hrough Porter's Q 01:48, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Susannah Gass [19 June 2014]

Your comment on the Susannah Gass page about David Gass' wife being related to the Moore family and possibly her maiden name being Moore ... shouldn't that go on the David Gass and/or his wife Sarah page(s) and not on Susannah's page? There are Kentucky marriage records that confirm that Susannah Gass married James Harris. I haven't heard of the Moore/Gass connection ... but several "sources" alledge that David Gass' mother was a Cowan ... haven't heard of the Moore connection before, but it is possible. Reason I give for it being possible is that my ancestor, James Gillespie Cowan (son of John [Alexander] Cowan and Rosannah Gillespie ... grandson of William Cowan and Jane Walker) married Mary Moor[e?] and her family is alledged to have come from the Augusta Co., VA area but I haven't been able to trace her family back to VA. --cowantex 12:10, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it probably could have been better placed.

I believe this comes from oral tradition references that describe David Gass as a brotherinlaw to the Moores. Given the 18th century date, that leaves a lot of possibilities---which I was sort of hinting at but didn't really describe
a David's wife was a sister of the Moore's
One of the Moore's married a sister of David
The Moore's married into the Walker family, the Walkers married Cowan's and one of the Cowan women married David Gass
in 18th century usage all of the above would make David a brotherinlaw to the Moore's, though today we wouldn't describe the last possibility as a brotherinlaw relationship.Q 14:33, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Andrew Hays LW&T Transcription Deleted by DMaxwell [19 August 2014]

Hello Bill,

I just tried to reference the transcription for the LW&T of Andrew Hays of Hays Creek that I sent to you. Apparently it was deleted by a user DMaxwell. I was just curious why it got deleted. Do you know the reason?

Thanks, Mark A. Hays --motohays 18:47, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Hmmmm. the transcription is still there, unless I ve gotten to the wrong Andrew Hays. I'm intansit and cant do much at the moment. Q 21:29, 9 August 2014 (UTC) Don't know if this is OBE, but you might want to check with DMaxwell. DMaxwell is one of 28 admins on WeRelate. I don't know specifically what his role is, but admin's frequently seek out and scrub duplicated articles, or otherwise try to correct problems. If there were two similarly named articles, DMaxwell might have thought one was a duplicate of the other. I don't know that this was the case in this instance, but there may have been an article for a transcription, plus another article for the photocopy. Just guessing. I believe I've some unfinished business with those Hays wills, and might have started something I wasn't able to complete. Q 11:07, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Actually, it was deleted because it was tagged with speedy delete. One of my roles as an admin is to monitor pages on the speedy delete project. The tag stated that there was a more informative version of said will, so I deleted the first without seeing it as controversial. Typically, I try not to step on other's researchers toes, but anyone who didn't want it deleted shouldn't have tagged it, and I wouldn't have noticed it. Daniel Maxwell 11:21, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi Daniel. I suspect that, or something like that, was probably the case. I'm sure that I marked that page as speedy delete as the item was duplicated elsewhere to better effect. Thanks for the explanation. Q 11:24, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

James Cowan Land [20 August 2014]

I didn't see an "edit" button. The source is the Missouri State Archives, Jefferson City, Missouri. Microfilm of original records.

da--DAtkinson 14:34, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Donna. You can't edit an image on WeRelate. All you can do is upload another version of the image, under a different title.
While saying its from Missouri State Archives, is helpful, sources need to be more specific than that. Usually that would be something along the lines of "Deed Book B, page 145". There are a couple of reasons for wanting to make such citations that precise.
First, others may want to go to that same record and examine it for themselves. Perhaps they are interested in seeing something that's been missed in a transcription, or perhaps cutoff in the image. Perhaps they want to see what's on the adjacent pages. Could be lots of reasons, but the most important reason is that by giving a precise source, you allow them to verify for themselves what you've found. Simply by giving them that ability greatly improves their belief that what you say is in fact correct. In a hobby where so much spurious information abounds, giving others enough information to verify things for themselves is incredibly important.
Secondly, a library, such as the Missouri State Archives, can be a very large place. In order for someone else to check a record for themselves, you need to tell them how to find it. Usually, that means citing things like "Deed Book B, page 145". In a library system that's usually enough to help someone else get to the actual document, or in this case, a microfilm of that document.

Q 14:53, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Albin/Walker [6 October 2014]

I am interested in your Martin H Albin m Elizabeth Polk Walker. Do you have any sources for your information. Their daughter, Rebecca Dean Albin m Theodore Booton Benson 26 Jan 1918 in VA. I have Martin in 1880 in VA as a marble cutter and then in 1900 in Minnesota as a lawyer. Elsie W and Rebecca are with him in this census. But in 1910 and 1920 he is living in boarding houses and there are no signs of Elsie and Rebecca until Rebecca turns up in VA in 1918. My connection is rather indirect. My aunt, Helen Pearl Tarrant m Walter Scott Atwill. Scott's mother was Martha Frances Benson. Martha's brother was Theodore, therefore, Rebecca was Martha's sister-in-law. Thanks, Peggy--Peggytrobinson 20:16, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi! This was just a carry down from an earlier generation of Walkers. I've no information about the family other than what might appear in Source:White, 1902. Most of the preceding generation in Elizabeth's line show this as the source of info. It not original source documentation, but give the dates, its within the period where White's informants would have personal knowledge. Q 20:32, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Possible Duplicate: Anna Maxwell (6) and (8) [1 January 2015]

Hi Quolla6 - Just a little note over here to let you know that I have left you a message on Anna's Talk page regarding her possible duplicate. I am hoping you might have some insight. It looks likely to me. Regards, --Cos1776 14:01, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Sorry to have gotten to this so late, but I've been pre-occupied with another genealogy project. I'm not sure what the right of t his is, but I'll do some checking with others who might know. Q 19:23, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Mary Richardson, a dedicated Maxwell research commented:
I don't recognize this Anna MAXWELL, regardless of whether she married a McCUE or a McCUSICK. The WeRelate notes say Anna was in Nelson and/or Albemarle Co. Sounds like she might connect to the Bazaleel bunch. None of my MAXWELLs were that far east.

Q 00:39, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Hiram Cowan [26 August 2015]

Didn't know where to put this tidbit but I found a Hiram Cowan on Findagrave in Etowah, Alabama.

One of my Cowan relatives ended up in Limestone so I looked at other Cowans. Since I had researched Hiram of Maine a bit this caught my eye.

Hope someone can use the information.

da--DAtkinson 15:22, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

FYI - I've added some information to this family: Hiram Cowan, do you know the maiden name of Margaret?

Best regards,


Can't help you out on Margaret. I just saw the burial in Etowah and the memorial says "w/o Hiram Cowan". Since I had researched the one in Maine, thought someone might like to know about her.

da--DAtkinson 21:09, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

If added a bit of information based on Ancestry familyTrees. Some do indeed identify Hiram (4) as the son of James Cowan and Hannah Woods, which would mean that the crds for Hiram (3) and (4) need to be merged. Better DOB's for both would help make that decision.

As to Margarets's maiden name, most of the tree's give her full name as "Margaret McLarty Harris"; McLarty might be a middle name, or it might be her maiden name, in which case "Harris" would be be a married surname, and she was a widow. Bill

Confusing edit [8 November 2015]

Hi Qualla. I noticed this edit that you did a while back that added (almost) a speedy delete template to a page. Was this intentional? Many thanks. AndrewRT 22:51, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Cowan Family in Ohio County, VA and Washington County, PA [21 February 2016]

Hey Bill, I've got a new Cowan family from Ohio County, VA and Washington County, PA for you to look at: William Cowan, I couldn't find any matches other than the records in Ohio County, [West] Virginia, to tie them together...

Best regards,

Jim:)--Delijim 20:35, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Family:John Snoddy and Agnes Glasgow (3)

Hi Quolla6 - Want to give you and Delijim a heads up that I have become a bit tangled up in the pages surrounding Family:John Snoddy and Agnes Glasgow (3) and am in the process of backing out of a rename/merge that I did incorrectly. I have to leave it briefly for now, but I didn't want you to worry. I will come back and fix the mixups and separate out the John Snoddys again before the weekend is over. I will leave this same message on Jim's page. Thanks for your patience. --Cos1776 14:00, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Huston yDNA [7 October 2016]

Hi there,

I have information about the ancestry of people who have tested in the blue group of the Huston/Houston yDNA project and would like to collaborate with you.

Rebecca--Tribe 13:33, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

            I don't recall using a color coding for the different groups of Houstons.  I believe that's the Houston YDNA project thing.  If you point to what you want to talk about that would be good. Q 17:31, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes, Houston yDNA project codes by colors. I'm offering to share information if there's a way to communicate directly. (I don't want to post email here)--Tribe 18:23, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

              OK, so what group is it that you are looking at?  I've not worked with the Houston's for sometime.  Some groups I have a personal interest in, some not. We can use direct email, which I don't currently have enabled on this site.
              but I need to know what line you're interested in.  Q 21:29, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

The common ancestor isn't known for Blue Group. Perhaps early Brandywine Delaware but that's just a guess. If the two of us put our heads together we might figure it out.--Tribe 22:18, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

        I'm sure I'd be very interested in discussing this further.  But I need to know what the people are that you believe are in the "Blue Group" or the "Brandywine Group".  You're going to need to be explicit. I look at a lot of lineages, and I don't keep information like that in my head.Q 23:59, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

There are descendants of 8 different Houstons that haven't been connected, so I'm not going into all of their genealogies. However, if you want to describe the lines you're interested in, I'll let you know if there's a match.--Tribe 13:05, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry, you

approached me about collaborating, not the other way around.  I just want to know who it is that you want to collaborate on.  If for some reason that's not something you want to identify, then I don't see how an effective collaboration is possible.  Q 19:06, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Of course, I would share that info privately by email.--Tribe 20:00, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Then we are at an empass. I wish you the best of luck in your research. Q 23:49, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Joining Tapestry list [17 July 2017]

May I join the Tapestry google list?--Dgregory 15:34, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm sorry, while that list still exists, it is no longer active. I have no immediate plans for that list. Q 17:18, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

List of People Owning Land in the Borden Tract [15 May 2018]

LINK: List_of_People_Owning_Land_in_the_Borden_Tract

William Porter 1742 395 acres sold to Thomas Hill in 1747. William Porter 1750 112 acres same as above William Porter 1754 200 acres same as above

This needs to be corrected. It makes it look like he sold all of his land to Thomas Hill. He only land that he sold to Hill was the first parcel of 395 1/2 acres that he purchased in 1742 from Benjamin Borden. This land was located on the far northeastern side of the Tract. The other parcels of 1750 and 1754 were on the far western side of the Borden Tract and had nothing to do with Thomas Hill. He also added land to these holdings of another 110 acres and on the Hildebrandt map it does not show his name on this acreage. Some of his land was outside of the Borden Tract. He also purchased two smaller parcels of 38 acres and 34 acres. Another parcel was for 107 acres in 1770. This was located in the Calfpasture. He never sold any of this land which later became Rockbridge County. This land sat at the entrance to Goshen Pass and became Strickler's Resort after his death. Sold to Strickler by the widow of Wm. Porter Jr. which was given to him through his father Wm. Sr.'s Will. Mary Bowen Porter and her son, Joseph sold to Strickler. Later it became Wilson Spring Resort. I think the error came from the transcription in Chalkley's Chronicles where he put a Delivered to Thomas Hill where it did not belong as it would have had nothing to do with Hill. Wm. Sr. had five children that we know of. They were: first born son John Porter b. (1728/1730-1804) m. Hannah Dobbs Gean(Jane) Porter Black(1731-1814) m. Lt. Samuel Black Margaret Porter Mitchell (1733-1795) m. John Mitchell ll Mary Porter Macky (1736-1813) m. John McKy (Scottish Spelling of his name.) William Alexander Porter Jr. born (1740-1804) m. Mary Bowen (1748-1820) Maybe you have corrected this already. If so, could you please let me now.--RBH 22:38, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Currently we have a documentary source that's consistent with what we have. You need to provide the documentation to show that what you say is true. Just saying "this is the right answer" isn't sufficient. Someone could (and has) said something else is the right answer, and you point to Chalkely's Chronicles as the likely source of that.
viz I think the error came from the transcription in Chalkley's Chronicles
where he put a "Delivered to Thomas Hill" where it did not belong as it would have had nothing to do with Hill.

More specifically you need to show that what Hildebrandt has in his map is in error. If he is in error, it may well be because Chalkley was in error. In that case going back to the original records and finding the relevant passage that has (or doesn't have) "delivered to Thomas Hill" would presumably reveal the truth.

I would suggest that you work with DeliJim on this, as the Old Augusta Project is, and always has been, DeliJim's project. (May have helped a bit but he is the one who has overseen this project, and I'm pretty much out of doing this kind of thing these days.

Q 01:20, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Walker YDNA [22 May 2018]

Hello, I am doing research for my boyfriend his mothers name is RHONDA WALKER and her father came from SUMNER COUNTY TENNESSEE.........I was reasearching on ancestry and was lead astray by the notorious JOHN MEADOW CREEK WALKER/INDIAN KiLLER WALKER confusion... My boyfriend really wants to learn his origin and if its scottish or English

I am pretty sure John Meadow Creek Walker is related to his walker because he has 2 generations of walker that I can confirm came from GREENE CO. But I know the INdiana Killer john lived near by..I am not sure honestly but I am assuming his john is John Meadow Creek.

I have my boyfriends DNA. Do you where where or who I can take this too to get compared to the WIGTON Walkers or the Meadow Creek Walkers to figure this out? I saw some Discussion about DNA testing others had done. Here is his Walker Line that I am positive of Starting from my boyfriend's mother.

Rhonda Walker - F: Chester Walker - F: Leonard A Walker(1893 Sumner Co TN) - F:George William Walker(Greene Co 1864)- F: Samuel Whitfield Walker(1834 Green Co TN) - Here I get a bit confused but I think father of samuel walker was LEE or LEVI WALKER and Lee Walkers father being the son of the JOHNS OF MEADOW CREEK.

Added After:

So we are sure the the Meadow Creek John Walker is NOT connected to the Wigton Scottish Walker? Thanks for the help!--Amariegordon 17:54, 16 May 2018 (UTC)


You need to look at theFTDNA Walker YDNA project. There's a great deal of YDNA research that's been done on the Walker line. The project managers are quite familiar with this line, and the confusion you point to.

In brief (but you should verify this for yourself) Meadow Creek John Walker is unrelated to the Wigton Walker line---there are very clear differences in YDNA signatures for the two groups---with numerous tests available for each. The Wigton Walker line has its own set of confusions, but this is not one of them.

Indian Killer John Walker, as he came to be known in the community, is generally believed to be in the Wigton Walker line. His presence in Blount County is coincident with the presence of children of Meadow Creek John. Locally he was sometimes known as "Grandfather John" by members of the Meadow Creek John Line in Blount County. Since they lived cheek to jowl with each other, people just assumed they were kindred.

Caveats While we know the Wigton Walker line was separate and unrelated to Meadow Creek John line per YDNA evidence, we do not have a YDNA test for a descendant of Indian Killer. We do, however, have a rather complicated but documentary reason to believe that Indian Killer was in fact Wigton Walker. That complicated reason is not proof, but its good enough to accept his lack of relationship to the Meadow Creek John line.

As for whether Meadow Creek John was English, Scot, or Irish, or (take your pick)---we don't know. His trail begins with him, and I know of no one who has successfully pushed his line back further. The Wigton Walker can reasonably be said to be Scots Irish but that view depends on accepting the family history in White 1902. WHite's a good source for later generations, but her documentation for the first three generations is not strong. Many accept it, but I think the question remains open.

[16 May 2018]

--Amariegordon 19:35, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

[17 May 2018]

--Amariegordon 15:50, 17 May 2018 (UTC)