User talk:Knarrows

Older messages found at Archive 2007


Thanks [4 January 2008]

Ronni thanks for fixing my external link. --Beth 18:27, 3 January 2008 (EST)

return message [16 January 2008]

Good Morning Ronni Thank you for offering help. I was totally confused and decided to stop for awhile. I don't know how I can help you with Ireland as I really don't know anything. If you have suggestions for research sites or other info, I will gladly pursue them.

I do not know anyone in Clay County WV, however I do know someone in Roane County who is very knowledgeable. I don't know what she really knows, but she appears to know everything about everything. She is in her 80's. Her daughter lives in the same building I live in if that helps any. The WV resident lives in Spencer.

I read the video, but by the time I went to use it I forgot most of it. Will try to get back to it later today or tomorrow. I need a short break before I continue on that site.

Shirley--Casac 06:31, 16 January 2008 (EST)

Thanks [19 January 2008]

Ronni, thanks for the offer of help. I just may need it. Having no prior wiki experience I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. It's all very new and I plan on spending time investigating some of the pages already here and doing some searches.

Thanks again.--Valeehill 18:13, 19 January 2008 (EST)

Week St Mary [28 January 2008]

Thanks for catching that. I didn't know how to enter the link.

My G.Grandmother was born in WSM and I usually look at their site for developments in the area.

My wife and I visited there for a day a few years ago and found it to be a lovely little village.

All the best,

Perk (ferrycap)--Ferrycap 23:58, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Thanks for help with Royal Edgar Lincoln page [2 February 2008]

This was my first effort and I thought ... later ... about the date format. (Some places I write require one, some the other. It gets a mite confusing sometimes.) I appreciate your assistance with this and with merging Royal #1 and Royal #3. (If #3 was Royal Edgar.) (I wrote something on Royal Orlando Lincoln too, R.E.'s father. They should not be combined, of course.)

I like this idea very much and will work on learning how to use the various parts. Then I'll pass it on to my genealogy group. The good thing is that one can always read until one feels comfortable with writing.

Kristy--LawrieGravlin 11:00, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Hi Kristy and thanks for leaving a comment. Your first effort was just fine! :) Royal #1 and Royal #3 appeared to be the same person, however, (same dates, spouses, etc), which is why I did the merge thing.

WeRelate does have a bit of learning curve (learning new wiki commands, WeRelate naming conventions, etc) but just jump right in and you'll learn as you go. If we make mistakes, they can easily be corrected and there are lots of helpful hints, suggestions, wish list features and complaints :) at the Watercooler that are helping to improve WeRelate each day. If you need any help at all, just drop me a line! :)

And oh, btw, regarding the date format. WeRelate doesn't have any "rules" on what format should be used. I just went with the one most commonly used on WR when I was merging the Royals. --Ronni 12:41, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Place naming conventions [10 February 2008]


I've noticed the place name formating changes that you've made to my entries. Thank you for taking the time to make the additions. I've gone back and forth about changing and I've decided to keep my convention. Two primary reasons are that all of my entries in my program follow the general to specific format and (like all of us) I believe that my way is "better" :-)

If there is an automated way of entering it the way that you are changing them I'd consider that.

Jim Sadler--Jsadler 15:31, 9 February 2008 (EST)

Hi Jim. Your convention and preference is fine. Dallan is working on some kind of placename or search function that, in the future, may recognize the "country, state, county, town" and correctly link them. If he's reading this, he may chime in. :) As of now, it's a manual change, which I didn't mind doing. :) On the flip side, using your hierarchy for placenames doesn't quite put the pages in the proper category (i.e., state vs town). Again though, this may be something that is corrected in the future. I don't blame you, I wouldn't go back and change them all either (and there's no need to) especially if that's how you have them setup in your genealogy program. My edits are to show new users ways of working around different problems or scenarios on their pages.

Thanks for stopping by Jim! Have a good day. --Ronni 16:05, 9 February 2008 (EST)

Hi, the only problem with using nonstandard place names is that they won't show up in the ped-map function :-)--sq 23:09, 9 February 2008 (EST)

Ah, yep. I forgot about that. Thanks Solveig! --Ronni 00:14, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Help with new user regarding gedcom [17 February 2008]

Hi Ronni,

Are you around? I signed up to welcome and help people and now have my first question. If you are hanging out, would you review my answer on his talk page and if more is needed please help Mark. --Beth 18:09, 16 February 2008 (EST)

Thanks for your help. That was a hard first question. I may have to retire from the welcome wagon. <g> --Beth 08:43, 17 February 2008 (EST)

LOL! You did great Beth. :) It appears the problem was a bug in the FTE. Thanks for volunteering btw! My volunteer time has been cut back a little because of a work schedule, so I'm sure Dallan and Solveig are very appreciative of your help. :) --Ronni 15:26, 17 February 2008 (EST)

Welcome message [24 February 2008]

Thanks for the welcome. Now I'm going to get my relatives to join the party. Let's hope I hear from strangers as well!--DavePeterson 08:10, 24 February 2008 (EST)

How do I add a second spouse and children to a page? [28 February 2008]

Washington Stem md 1st, Eliza Jane Henderson. They had 3 children. She died. He remarried. He and second wife, Catherine Johnson, had 5 children. How do I add the second wife and have her and her children connected to the tree with the first wife in it?--Goliad 09:24, 28 February 2008 (EST)

Select the person page for Washington Stem and edit. Under Spouse of family select add new family page. Enter Catherine Johnson and save changes. On the person page you will now have spouse of family Washington Stem and Catherine Johnson. Click on that and select edit. Under children select add new person page and add the five children entering only first name and surname. You can then edit the person pages. --Beth 20:05, 28 February 2008 (EST)

Deleting a tree [29 February 2008]

Ronni, I certainly appreciated your message telling me how to delete the tree that was causing me problems. I am "testing" We Relate to see if it would be a feasible way to make various lineages of the Tucker family available for Tucker researchers to view and help edit. I see already that we are going to encounter problems since many folks will have overlapping lines. This research is part of a DNA project to verify the "paper trails" of lineages that DNA say are wrong.

One question I have is the statement below (on this page) that copywrited material can not be submitted without permission. Does this include published works such a book on county marriages? If so, that will prevent a lot of folks from using this site. This definitely needs further explanation!

Thank you again! I appreciated your help and have deleted the offending trees!

Sincerely, Mary McCBell--MaryMcCBell 09:18, 29 February 2008 (EST)

Hi again Mary. Amelia, another user here, has her DNA project online. It looks like it might just serve as a jumping off point, but you can check it out. Overlapping lines is an issue most of us have. As we put our data online, we find many instances where we can "merge" into another user's tree. A merge function is in the works and should be available in a few months to make the process of seeing and merging these overlapping lines easier. The ultimate goal would be to have one page per family, with all interested parties working together.

As to copyrighted material, WeRelate's rules regarding copyrights are no different than any other place on the internet. Facts are not "copyrightable" though and "fair use" is allowed. Review this help page for more on copyright issues.

BTW, I have a Tucker direct line that I can't get anywhere with. I have tried to tie into the Drury Tucker line without success. William Tucker and Dorcas Smith from around Fayette and Kanawha counties in WV is as far back as I can go. I have seen the line go back to a James Tucker and Jincy Unknown of Kanawaha county, but I don't have the proof to tie my family into it. Would love to have you stick around! <g>

Have a good day Mary. If I can help you with anything, let me know. You can also check out the Watercooler for other opinions and views, if you would like to voice your WeRelate concerns there as well. --Ronni 12:07, 29 February 2008 (EST)

I Would Like to Delete a Page You Are Watching [6 March 2008]

Hi Knarrows,

    My name is Toni, I created the page Adam Bennett (2), which you are watching. That page was our first draft as we were trying to settle on a format that makes sense for presenting data on enslaved ancestors. 
    We found that the standard categories of birth, marriage, occupation, etc. are a bit self-defeating as we so often have to fill those categories with the words, "We know very little as yet..."
    We decided to change the page format to include the heading "Biographical Information," where we can include the information we do know.
    We have replaced the page with Adam Bennett (4), which we have now linked to the pages for all of Adam's family.
    I would like to delete that page but I can do that only if I am the only one watching the page. The rest of the folks watching that page are our staff members and so I can get them to Unwatch the page. I wonder if I might ask you to kindly Unwatch the page so that we can delete it, to avoid confusion among readers.
    We would appreciate your kindness so much. Thank you as well for picking up on the duplicate page and plugging that into the Talk section, you were very thoughtful to take the time to do so.

Best and Cheers! Toni  :)--Henri6602 23:04, 5 March 2008 (EST)

Hi Toni! Consider me "unwatching." :) You guys are doing a great job! BTW, I nominated the Adam Bennett page for a "Feature Page" when I came across it and that's when I noticed the other page. Good luck in your research. --Ronni 00:49, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Thanks Much!

Toni  :)--Henri6602 00:53, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Trying to access my pedi-maps [17 March 2008]

Hi There,

I've uploaded a GEDCOM sucessfully and been looking around. I was using the Pedi-Maps page to view my data. It was working fine at work but now I'm at home it's no long displaying properly. Similar type of environment (Windows XP Professional, IE7 browser) - I get an error on the page:

  • Line: 2
  • Char: 13860
  • Error: Permission denied
  • Code: 0
  • URL:
  • title=Special:ShowPedigree&pagetitle=Family:Edward_Luck_and_Elizabeth_Brooks_(1)

and the exhibit stuff doesn't load properly.

Is it something on my computer or a problem at the server end?

Thanks Peter Frederick--Pfred60 09:12, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

Hi Peter. I've forwarded this to Dallan so he can have a look at it. Thanks for reporting it and hopefully he'll have it working for you soon. --Ronni 10:37, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

Hi Peter, Thank-you for reporting this and I apologize for the inconvenience. I'll look at this and get back with you later on today.--Dallan 16:38, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

I couldn't find a family page for Edward Luck and Elizabeth Brooks, but I did find Family:Edward Luck and Elizabeth Hodges (1). However, when I went to view the pedigree for this page I didn't get an error. Am I looking at the right page?--Dallan 16:51, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

Hi Dallan. Thats strange because it's working fine this morning but wouldn't last night. I copied the cerror meease exactly but you are right - your page was correct - somehow it must have been trying to generate a page for a name that didn't exist. If I work out how I did it I'll let you know. BTW, If you go to that page my ancestor Edward Luck had 2 marriages. On the PEDI-MAPS page there is a place for other spouses but in this case it isn't populated. Is that something you are still working on? Thanks Peter Frederick 08:30, 15 March 2008 (EST)

Hi, multiple spouses should be listed on the left-hand side of pedi-maps for individuals, but it hasn't received a lot of testing so there could be a bug. If you notice something, please let me know. (It looks like you've since deleted the page for Edward and Elizabeth.)--Dallan 12:35, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Hello [15 March 2008]

Thanks for welcoming me! I have some technical questions, who I should ask?--Robphelps 19:49, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

Technical stuff huh? Probably best to directly address your questions to Dallan then. :) --Ronni 00:41, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Match/Merge-sources [28 March 2008]

Hi Ronnie, I've watching as you and a couple of others have redirected some of my pages. I appreciate these efforts as I have been waiting for the match/merge utility to become available before doing it myself. I have one concern, however, I keep seeing Family Search, Ancestral File, WFT,, etc. listed as sources. I do not think these should be used because they are largely unsourced. Unless one is citing extracted records, most of the data is accepted as submitted whether or not it is accurate, or even feasible. There are some data in the ancestral file which were examined and approved by the now defunct Medieval Families committee, but even that is suspect as the committee was eventually dissolved because the members could not agree as to what constituted adequate documentation. Regards, --Scot 14:01, 26 March 2008 (EDT)Scot

Please pardon me for stepping in here. We've been talking about re-working sources on the Source Committee page, and I'm curious to get your views on this topic. I agree that sources such as Family Search, Ancestral File, WFT, etc. don't make good-quality sources. I've been thinking though that listing them as sources is a good thing precisely so that others would know that the individual is not supported with good-quality sources. What do you think?--Dallan 23:27, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

Hi Scot. I've been waiting too for the match/merge thingie, but Dallan did a little tweak that makes manual merging a lot easier. You can read our discussion about it here. When I do a merge like this though, I copy everything to the target page, and will let the interested parties hash out what sources and/or data should be changed or corrected.

Now, about the sources you mention, I tend to agree with what Dallan said. They aren't good quality sources, but unless there's another source that usurps them, removing the "bad quality stuff" as a source doesn't accomplish anything as far as the research goes. Information given to me without a source leaves me wondering where it came from, while even a "bad" or "poor quality" source gives me at least *some* idea on what kind of information I'm looking at and from that I can make judgments on the quality of the information. Eventually, as time passes and more researchers see this info online, these "poor quality" sources will be replaced with primary or good secondary sources. This is just my personal opinion on the matter and if you stop by the Source Committee page that Dallan linked to above, you'll see there's no shortage of opinions on how we handle sources at WeRelate. <g> I generally have the same concerns as you Scot and think that the "Source Committee" group would benefit from your input. Stop by if you have a chance. --Ronni 01:02, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

Dallan and Ronnie, Before I jump into this on the source committee page, I'll share some of my thoughts here. I see a lot of discussion about different types of sources. I feel trying to separate types will unnecessarily complicate the issue. I have been using PAF for 16 or 17 years through its various incarnations. Over that period the methods for handling have changed, or at least mine have. Some of the entries in my database still contain the old print tags imbedded in the notes fields, for example, and I haven't made a concerted effort to go thru the entries to maintain consistancy. I think the current source template in PAF allows entry of all types in the same format but it is not difficult for the user to distinguish between primary and secondary sources. Primary sources can be identified by repository to determine if they are original records, photocopies of original records, etc. Secondary sources vary greatly in quality but again, the distinction should be made by the user. Highly credible sources such as the Barbour collections, scholarly works published by NEHGS, TAG, Jacobus, Savage, Torre etc. rank high in credibility. But I believe family histories, entries in the IGI, AF, WFT, Worldconnect,, etc.; forum discussions and private websites should be cited only if these repositories contain external source citations, as they are not sources in and of themselves. Citing such entries alone is, I feel, no better than no documentation at all. I have long been frustrated with the fact that IGI extracted records are buried among the submitted records and have to be separated manually. If I go to family search for a particular person and find 130 records and 129 of them are member submissions, this renders the database practically useless. --Scot 13:26, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

I have at least one WFT that I intend to use as a source. This is a "negative source". Individual is in the household of a Coker for 20 or 30 years with the surname Coker. The WFT states that a descendant said he was not a Coker but "adopted". Weighing the balance of census data without a relationship shown (before 1880) and this statement, the WFT has the greater validity in my opinion. I normally refer to these "sources" in the text section of my page. They may not be "legitimate" sources; but a source is where one obtained the information, is it not?

Give some examples of your pages that were merged; I would like to review them before commenting further. Did the premerge page have any sources? --Beth 19:30, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

Beth,The bulk of my pages that have been merged are family members of William Bradford and Francis Cooke of the Mayflower, also some descendants of Rowland Stebbins, and some of William Larrabee for example. Many of my pages for those individuals that are my direct line ancestors were sourced while those for their siblings were not. It appears that my sources have been retained, although at present this is a manual process. Some of my source citations show up preceded with my name, while others do not. I'm not sure why this is. Technically any thing you find,correct or not has a source, however the case you mention is hearsay evidence. Much of what you find at these locations may certainly be correct, but on the other hand a great deal of it is the result of fraud, conjecture and/or wishful thinking. Once someone posts such incorrect data, no matter how many times it is shown to be wrong, it persists. Unless the data cites a primary contemporary source it is hearsay. That said, there are many secondary sources that are credible based upon who did the research and what sources they used (and cited) I listed several above and there are many more. The level of credence placed upon them is surely a matter of judgement. Some others that come to mind are the Great Migration series published by the NHGS and The Mayflower Families series. The Wiki process will hopefully become a compilation with consensus as to what is the best available documentation. I have a case simiar to what you cited but with entirely different evidence. I had my Ydna tested last year and found 2 individuals with 23 of 25 marker matches to me. One of the individuals shares my surname and paper trail, the other does not. FTDNA says unless you share a surname, such a match is just coincidental. However, this person's ancestor settled in a small town in Putnam county NY in the mid 1700's. The other person's ancestor was one of the brothers of my ancestor that went to the same town in the earl 1700's. There are many descendants of both famiies in that town today with 4 known marriages between the two famiies and undoubtedly an adoption somewhere along the line. But, while this makes sense, there is no source. Conjecture?, yes, proof?, no.--Scot 15:28, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Thank You [30 March 2008]

I am sure that I will have some questions for you as I start really getting some of my stuff entered in. Thank you very much.--Harleygirl81 18:14, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

Callison researcher [29 April 2008]


Saw your information on CALLISON and thought I would share. I have about six pages on the William Thomas and Joannah Robinson Callison Family. Should I post it here?

Al Zopp--Azopp 17:42, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Hi there Al! I am very excited to run into someone that has info on that branch of the family. Feel free to add whatever information you like directly to their PERSON or FAMILY pages. Thanks!! --Ronni 18:57, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

New users and watchlist [4 May 2008]

Hi Ronni,

How long do you leave the new users in your watchlist? --Beth 09:34, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

Hi Beth. I don't add them to my watchlist. At first I did, but it got to be too many to "watch." Hopefully, if they have a question, they'll leave it on our user pages, but I'm sure I've missed some. If I initiate a conversation, other than the welcome message, I'll add them in that case. What I try to do is check the Recent Changes to see any activity in that area. I may try adding them back since you've joined in. <g> I don't know how you would purge them from your watchlist though without going through each one and seeing when they were added. --Ronni 11:10, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

Helping with other pages [9 May 2008]

Hi Ronni, You mentioned us helping with a user's research or pages. Do you have a candidate selected? We could add this to the home page and select one each month like we do the favorite pages. Then as time allows users could contribute to the pages for that month or longer; but one would highlight a different user each month. --Beth 19:38, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

Hi Beth. I just threw that rough idea out there to see if there was any interest and apparently there is none. :) Thank you for inquiring more about it though. The gist of the idea was to get more of a sense of collaboration by working together on a "community project" where the focus would be on a person or family. I have no idea how it would work or if it could work, so no, I don't really have any candidates in mind for such a project. It's just something I've had bouncing around in my head for a while. --Ronni 11:25, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

Son's graduation [25 May 2008]

Hi Ronni,

Thanks for your help. Son's graduation was great. I helped give a breakfast at 3:30 in the morning; so finally recovering. What's the name of your cat? I have a mean cat named Pearl; she insists on sitting on my computer table or in my computer chair. I will have to post her picture. --Beth 10:36, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

Hi Beth. Glad your son's graduation went smoothly. Don't know that I would volunteer for breakfast duty though! :) My cat's name is Shadrach and he loves stuffing himself into things that I think there's no way he could fit in. --Ronni 12:42, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

nFS [30 May 2008]


I just heard about nFS from someone who claims it will render Wiki genealogy obsolete. I have poked around some and found it is in very limited beta release, but the impression I get is that it is meant for Temple work, not collaboration. What can you tell me about it?--Scot 14:24, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Hi Scot. I don't know that it will render the other genealogy wiki sites obsolete, but the features I'm hearing, if they are true, will certainly make a very huge impact. There's an article on it at Wikipedia. Right now, it's only available to LDS Church members, but will eventually open to the general public. --Ronni 14:35, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Hi Ronni, just as an FYI, Scot asked me this question as well and I answered it on my talk page.--Dallan 00:55, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for the nomination [2 June 2008]

You nominated my entry for my great-grandfather William Black. Thanks. I absolutely love this site. I have always wanted genealogy to be more than names and dates. I wanted a way to tell everyone's story and to use the power of the computer to link in pictures and documents. The wiki is the tool I've been waiting for. But WeRelate goes beyond because you guys know genealogy. I've seen the other genealogy wiki sites and they they get it wrong. They focus on people. WeRelate focuses on families. Plural. The one you were born into AND the one you started. That's what takes it to the next level. You can learn a lot about a person and easily connect to the other people that are that persons ancestors and descendants.--Srblac 08:13, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

Hi there. Thanks for your message. I love it when people love WeRelate. :) "Telling the stories" takes a little more effort than simply recording the dates and I always appreciate a good story. :) --Ronni 11:46, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

FamilySearch [15 June 2008]

Hi Ronni,

Many of the West Virginia vital records are on the FamilySearch pilot site now. --Beth 17:59, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Hey there Beth! Thanks. I've been hanging out there the last week or so. Very handy! :) --Ronni 21:16, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Suffixes [3 July 2008]

I guess I am not clear what I should do. The names should be First and Last. Do I leave off Jr, Sr, etc? I have so many of the same named people when I am entering data that I put them in to keep them straight. Should I go back and rename the record after I am finished? Should I re-edit the record and take out the Jr.Sr then? I can't find records by searching for people, I have to use Family searches so I can find the right one and back into the other record for the person. I think I understand what you all want, I'll try to go back and clean up some of these records.

Sorry for the trouble.

Carol--Suzyq 11:37, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

(This message was responded to on Carol's page)

Welcome [11 July 2008]

Hi Ronni,

Welcome back.--Beth 13:48, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

Thanks Beth. It's my day off, so I can spend some time here. I'll be popping in and out every now and then. Can't wait for another vacation! :) --Ronni 14:27, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

That We Might Live [12 July 2008]

Thanks the picture looks great! joe--Jmp 12:42, 12 July 2008 (EDT)

the book: John Hollis & Jacob Hollis... [16 July 2008]

Ronni, My full name is Graham F. Hollis and I did write the book in question--and I did provide that LDS could digitize the same. I was glad to find the book listed as part of We Relate. My intention was to fill out pages for the oldest family member for each name on the list to the right of the page. And, I did hope that others could provide further knowledge to expand the family lines.

I am a newbe and know little about the function of this, or any blog, so your help in best achieving my goals as stated would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

GFH--Hollisgf 08:34, 15 July 2008 (EDT)

Hi Graham. Thanks for getting back to me on this. I had to do a search to see what book you were referring to, which was what I was confused about on the Help_Talk page you left your comments on. In any case, I see the book you were referencing. And while I don't have any connection to the Hollis name, I always appreciate it when an author makes his work available to the public such as you have by allowing it to be digitized. Your idea about creating pages for each of the names is good one. By the way, feel free to leave your comments on the source page. Each page on WeRelate has an associated TALK page for discussion. If you want to summarize the contents of the book, you can do that as well.

You mention you are a "newbie" and we'll try to help anyway we can, but let me suggest up front that the best way to get your feet wet and start creating pages is to do the tutorials. We have both video and text type tutorials.

Thanks again for setting me straight on this Graham. :) And welcome to WeRelate! --Ronni 01:27, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

Thank You for the double brackets - I am still learning [26 July 2008]


Thank You for your help. I really appreciate it.

I will write myself a note about the double brackets.

I am sorry to say I incorrectly tried to edit about a dozen pages.

Debbie Freeman--DFree 21:24, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

No problem! Glad I could help. And btw, I've been here over a year now and I'm still learning as well. :) --Ronni 22:41, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

Welcome user Pandbsporn [28 July 2008]

Hi Ronni,

Please welcome the above user. My on line filter thinks this is porn and has blocked the user talk page. I cannot welcome this person. --Beth 06:47, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

Nevermind Ronni, the filter is not blocking the user any more; have no idea why.--Beth 11:56, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

Place names, Portugal [8 August 2008]

Ronnie, I mentioned to Dallan that the heirarchy of place names for Madeira and the Azores was obsolete. Under the Salazar regime, they were subject to rule under the central government of Portugal and were divided into 4 administrative districts, Funchal in Madeira; Punta Delgada, Angra do Heroismo and Horta in the Azores. After the death of Salazar and the revolution of 1976 Madeira and the Azores were given the status of Autonomous regions, each with their own government, and the National Districts ceased to exist. Dallan invited me to edit place names to correct this. However I have not been able to figure out how to do it. If I try to modify from the top down, I am prevented from doing so because the place contains inhabited places. If I try to change from the bottom up, I am prevented because the modified Place does not yet exist. There are two heirarchies, civil and ecclesiactical, also the Azores differs slightly in structure between Madeira and the Azores. In both places the civil heirarchy is village (or municipality), concelho (county), island (only in the Azores), region, Country. The ecclesiactical heirarchy is: parish, matriz (means mother church, used only in the Azores), diocese. The former National districts are all cities, Funchal in Madeira, Punta Delgada on the Island of Sâo Miguel in the Azores, Angra on the Island of Terceira in the Azores and Horta on the Island of Faial in the Azores. of these, Angra and Funchal are also diocese' Angra comprising all 9 Islands in the Azores and Funchal containing both inhabited islands of the Madeira archipelago, Madeira and Porto Santo. Porto Santo is all one concelho with the other ten lying on the island of Madeira. Could you suggest a systematic methodology to edit these place names to reflect the current situation. --Scot 12:44, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Since the PLACE name overhaul last year, the problems you mention in changing the hierarchy of a country is definitely a toughie. Give me an example of a page you are trying to add or change so I can see the title of the page you are trying to create. --Ronni 13:03, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

A place name as it exists in the database is Place:Arco da Calheta, Funchal, Madeira, Portugal. It should be Place:Arco da Calheta, Calheta, Madeira, Portugal
another Place:Paúl do Mar, Funchal, Madeira, Portugal; should be Place:Paúl do Mar, Calheta, Madeira, Portugal
If referring to a baptism or marriage record, Perhaps the place name should be preceded by the parish in which the event occurred eg Place:Espirito Santo, Calheta, Calheta, Madeira, Portugal In both cases the concelho was omitted and the former National District was included--Scot 14:47, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Ok Scot, I created the new pages you suggested. I'll try to explain how it I did it.

When I tried to create the page "Place:Arco da Calheta, Calheta, Madeira, Portugal" and edit it, it said, "The "Calheta, Madeira, Portugal" place page does not exist (you must create it before creating this page..." Arco da Calheta is a contained place within "Calheta, Madeira, Portugal." Since the latter didn't exist, we have to create it first so that it can then contain the city. What I did when I saw this was, while still in edit mode on the Arco da Calheta page, I clicked on the "Located in Calheta, Madeira, Portugal" which was a red link showing me it didn't exist (it's also located right under the coordinates area) and opened it up in a new tab. I then created the "Calheta, Madeira, Portugal" page, saved it, and then went back and created the the page for Arco da Calheta.

I think if I was doing this, I would try to create the pages for the smallest unit first (e.g. as town or parish) and then if I got that error message as above, I would open up a new tab and create the next level in the hierarchy. After you get all of your new pages created, we'll have to ask Dallan about redirecting the old pages to the new pages. I'm not sure you can or should redirect a place that has contained places in it.

As you can see, I created the pages you gave me as examples above, but I didn't know what info, type, coordinates to put in, so I'll leave that up to you.

Hope this works Scot. If you still come up against some problems, let me or Dallan know. --Ronni 00:56, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

I have entered all of the villages in Madeira and the Parishes within the city of Funchal and started on the Azores, first with the Island of Sâo Miguel. In 6 or 7 cases, I entered the coordinates found in Wikipedia articles, and in every case, the pointer landed in the ocean, miles from the island on the map. Either the map is off or the coordinates in Wikipedia are wrong. How can his be corrected? Take a look at my work and offer comment. I asked Dallan how to proceed from here although there are still tons of places to go. It seems that the Portuguese are still changing or suggesting changing their place naming conventions. As with surnames, it seems they are always different. They have done away with the old provinces on the mainland and divided the country into smaller districts. Attempting to conform may end up like aiming at a moving target.--Scot 17:12, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

I used to end up in the ocean as well. :) I try to use Geonames for obtaining coordinates now. Occasionally, I'll run into a place that's not listed there, but all in all it's pretty good. I just basically copy and paste the coordinates from Geonames to WeRelate.

As to countries changing their boundaries, administrative units, etc., yep it can be a nightmare trying to keep up and decide how to proceed. When I was helping out in the Place cleanup project I came across a site called Statoids that helped me.

--Ronni 01:37, 8 August 2008 (EDT)

That looks better, you even hit the right part of the island. There is still a lot of kousekeeping to do. Dallan has me redirecting the old pages. A typical problem is to decide if

Duplicate pages [1 August 2008]

Freelove Barker (3) and Abigail Swaros (2) are duplicate pages and can be deleted.--Susan Irish 13:34, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

Done :)--sq 10:23, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

Michael family [24 August 2008]

I am new to WeRelate and am having trouble resulting in some duplications. First, I have two sign-ins, I need to delete one.

Then when I add a wife I seem to create a duplication. Are you related to the Michael family?

Coy Michael--Coy 17:32, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

  1. It really doesn't matter if you have 2 logins. There is no way to delete a User ID. Just use one and forget the other.
  2. I need a little more information about the duplicate wife situation. Could you tell me what you did and what happened. Thanks, --sq 22:57, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

Merged Pages [15 October 2008]

Thanks for your message. It really isn't a problem. I left some notes at the Watercooler about this. It's great that you were trying to understand my initial question better - and - you probably found a glitch in the cancel button! Nothing lost - but you likely helped to improve the merge functionality!!--JBS66 14:15, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

Your cat! [24 November 2008]

S/he is SO beautiful. Reminds me SO much of my "Rusty" who I lost in 1997 (but still feels like he's around). Also an orange long-hair. LOVE IT! Thanks for sharing that great photo and nudging my memory banks back to my sweet boy. jillaine 13:58, 24 November 2008 (EST)

Thank you Jillaine! I'll share your comments with Shadrak. :) --Ronni 17:08, 24 November 2008 (EST)

Message and some fun [12 December 2008]

Hi Ronni,

Thanks for the note from Bea. She sent me an email but she must have walked out of the house never to return because I have not heard from her again. <g>

Anyway it is great to have sons that keep up with the current happenings; my 19 year old told me about this one. It is fantastic.

This is really a neat site. I would post it on the watercooler but is definitely not on topic; maybe we could title it music while genealoging. Anyway check out this site. [1]

You can create your own radio stations. I started out with one artist, The Tempations. the site automatically adds like songs which you can give a thumbs up or thumbs down. Then you can create additional stations; I plan to have a country one and classical, just depending on my mood. Happy Holidays. --Beth 21:34, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Thanks Beth! That is cool! I love to listen to music while on the internet. Doing the source review project where so many sites add their own music to their web pages has prevented me from doing so. I think I'll play around with a few stations myself. :) Thanks again and Happy Holidays to you as well! --Ronni 11:10, 12 December 2008 (EST)
I am listening to right now. I've been listening to it for a few months. It's GREAT fun. Not only can you create your own stations, you can then share them with others. I've got a few. Things I call 70s acoustic guitar, 80s nostalgia, 60s classics, etc... Quite fun. jillaine 22:33, 12 December 2008 (EST)
I was just playing around with it as well! I have a wide ranges of tastes: contemporary folk, Chicago blues, alternative country, some instrumental new age and the occasional AC/DC kinda stuff. It is fun and a great way to find new music. --Ronni 23:27, 12 December 2008 (EST)

Thanks for your help! [13 December 2008]

--Markm79 18:57, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Thanks for your help! [14 December 2008]

Oops, just learning here, so all help & guidance is certainly welcome. I did spend some time today reading various 'helps' & explored 'MyRelate'. While adding my first entries, I was tired (passed my bedtime) but too excited to give up. Now reviewing my entries today I can see some details still need correcting, all in good time.

Several times when clicking on a page (i.e.: 'preview', 'next' or 'prev') my internet explorer window completely closes without warning. Is there something that I'm not doing correctly?

again, thanks for being a helpful voluteer, MarkM79 (Mark McConnell)--Markm79 19:07, 13 December 2008 (EST)

heh.. you sound like me, foregoing sleep to play a little longer on WeRelate. :) As to your IE shutting down, I can't imagine you are doing anything wrong. I've heard others say Firefox will shut down all of sudden (mine will do it occasionally) but I've not heard reports of IE doing it. I'll pass it along to Dallan to see what he thinks. How often does it occur, btw? And the next time it does occur, try to remember the page you were working on and what you were doing at the time in case this is something new happening. If you need any more help or have any other questions, give me a shout. --Ronni 19:22, 13 December 2008 (EST)

This is Dallan. I'm curious: are you running the "Family Tree Explorer" when this happens? I've had some people say that the "Family Tree Explorer" is sometimes unstable, but I haven't heard of any other problems. Also, are you using IE6 or IE7? (IE7 supports tabs; IE6 is the older one that doesn't let you have multiple tabs open.) As Ronnis says, if you can tell me a URL that it shuts down on I'll see if we can replicate it here. Thanks!--Dallan 00:31, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Thanks for your help! [14 December 2008]

Oops, just learning here, so all help & guidance is certainly welcome. I did spend some time today reading various 'helps' & explored 'MyRelate'. While adding my first entries, I was tired (passed my bedtime) but too excited to give up. Now reviewing my entries today I can see some details still need correcting, all in good time.

Several times when clicking on a page (i.e.: 'preview', 'next' or 'prev') my internet explorer window completely closes without warning. Is there something that I'm not doing correctly?

again, thanks for being a helpful voluteer, MarkM79 (Mark McConnell)--Markm79 19:08, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Mortiboys One Name study [21 December 2008]


Thanks for pointing out broken external link - should be ok now. Yes by all means add my One name study to the correct category! Phil--Phil88 06:35, 21 December 2008 (EST)

Renaming of Source pages for Friesland, Netherlands [2 January 2009]

I'm looking to clean up some of the sources from FHLC for Friesland, Netherlands. I wanted to run my ideas by you first (since it involves a few hundred source pages).

We have a number of FHLC Source pages like Source:Registers van de Burgerlijke Administratie, 1627-1811 (102329) and Source:Registers van de Burgerlijke Stand, 1811-1940 (131847) for B-M-D records. There are also online databases that search the same info.
I was planning to rename pages as such:

Does this sound like this would be consistent with the Source Review’s page renaming? Thank You!--Jennifer (JBS66) 12:16, 1 January 2009 (EST)

Hi Jennifer. Yes, your naming convention does agree with the source review and it's exactly the way I would do it. Generally speaking, if the source is originally from a gov't or church, then the place goes first in the title, from higher hierarchy to lower (just as you've done). I also agree with taking out the publisher, date issued, etc. Thanks so much for doing this Jennifer! I've been working on the source review project since August and it's hard to tell that a dent has even been made. --Ronni 13:53, 1 January 2009 (EST)

You must have a lot of patience! I would be frustrated not seeing more immediate progress...
Another quick title question. For sources such as Source:Kerkelijke registers, 1728-1866, which are church registers for more then one town, how are you titling these? Are you creating another source page with the title of the second town?--Jennifer (JBS66) 08:58, 2 January 2009 (EST)

Actually, I'm not a patient person at all, which is surprising that I'm able to to do this! :) As to the source in question, I would title it "Netherlands, Friesland. Kerkelijke Registers, 1728-1866" leaving off the town names. In a search, the towns will show up and direct it towards this source. Not using the towns in this particular title will only be a hindrance in a drop-down box (i.e., you couldn't tell from the title what towns are included). That's how I would do it which may or may not be correct. :) --Ronni 11:41, 2 January 2009 (EST)

I'll just step in here a bit - later this year we're going to automatically rename the FHLC sources to conform to the new source-page title standard. When a source covers multiple places we'll use as much of the places as they have in common, so in this case we'd rename it to exactly what Ronni has said.--Dallan 11:03, 3 January 2009 (EST)

Changes to Christopher Zimmerman and Maria Tanner [17 January 2009]

Ronni, I'm really new to WeRelate, and I have problems with wiki sites as well. You made some changes to my database, and I can't figure out what you did. Thanks. Ellen Rowan Taylor--Ellen 19:02, 17 January 2009 (EST)

Hi Ellen. The change I made was merge your Zimmerman family into one that was already on WeRelate. An easy way to see what I did is to look at my user page and click on More and then on Contributions. Scroll down until you see your Zimmerman family and you'll see where I merged family (3) into family (1). You should also see a "review/undo" button. That will allow you to see the similarities or differences between the two families. While at the review screen, click on your Zimmerman family (3) and then review the "history" of the page. This allows you to view every edit made to that page since creation. If you need any help or have any more questions, please let me know. --Ronni 19:22, 17 January 2009 (EST)

GenWeb page titles [22 January 2009]

I'm wondering about how the GenWeb Source pages are titled. I'm looking at Connecticut's resources, and the titles vary greatly. Why are they not in the format United States, Connecticut, County, Town. GenWeb? I'd be willing to do some work on Connecticut's pages if I can. Thank you!--Jennifer (JBS66) 10:54, 22 January 2009 (EST)

Hi Jennifer. I don't recall any discussion on how to deal with GenWeb titles. I think titling the pages per location as you've suggested would be fine, however. But if you like, we can throw the issue up for discussion at the source review project page to see if others agree with the naming convention. Thanks for your help! --Ronni 12:54, 22 January 2009 (EST)

Question on source page titles [28 January 2009]

I'm working on updating/merging sources that are from, are books, and are also available online from Heritage Quest or Google Books. I wanted to check to make sure I'm naming these types of sources correctly.

  1. This one is a book, but it is sort of geographical. Would it be in the Author.Title format, or should I rename it to be United States, Pennsylvania, Berks, Reading. 100 years of the Reading High School Alumni Association, 1867-1967?
  2. This one is a book, but is about a church. Again, would it be Author.Title, or Location.Title?

Thank you!!!--Jennifer (JBS66) 08:36, 28 January 2009 (EST)

I tend to create geographical titles for only for census, cemetery and vital records. The two you gave examples of, I would leave as books with the author's name in the title. So yep, you did good as far as I'm concerned! :) --Ronni 10:27, 28 January 2009 (EST)

Deleting Sources [3 February 2009]

I've been deleting the duplicate sources after I move over the URL to the existing source page. When I delete the Ancestry source page, do you know if I need to bother checking if anything links to that page or can I just delete it? Would it let me delete it if there were pages that linked to it?

Thank you!!--Jennifer (JBS66) 19:07, 2 February 2009 (EST)

Hi Jennifer. As an admin, it will let you delete the page even though someone may be watching. To be safe, you should check to see if the page is linked to another. Or you could redirect, which will carry over any watchers. I believe Dallan said that after the source review project is done that any redirected pages that don't have any watchers will be deleted anyway, so any clutter now will eventually be removed. Having said that though, I tend to look to see if the page is linked. If not, then I usually delete it. --Ronni 19:19, 2 February 2009 (EST)

Thank you very much for the clarification! I wondered if that was the case... Guess I better start checking first, huh? Well, at least the ones I deleted were highly unlikely to be watched or linked to, they contained only an Ancestry URL.--Jennifer (JBS66) 06:00, 3 February 2009 (EST)

jillaine's sandbox now ready [7 February 2009]

User:Jillaine/Sandbox Thanks! jillaine 07:54, 7 February 2009 (EST)

I hope that... [15 February 2009]

... you're going to replace what you just took out of your user page with something else. Loved the kitty photos. -- jillaine 16:10, 15 February 2009 (EST)

Ack! [16 July 2009]

You're not leaving are you? Your deleted tree just wreaked havoc on my watchlist! And those deleted (1) families are going to drive me crazy...--Amelia 23:45, 26 February 2009 (EST)

Amelia, just curious. How does a deleted gedcom wreak havoc on your watchlist? -- jillaine 10:10, 27 February 2009 (EST)
We overlap a lot, particular on CT families -- so for example for all the children I've added a birth source for whose parents I'm not watching that page has been modified by the removal of the parent link, which is both sad, and I have to click on all of them to stay notified of changes.--Amelia 00:04, 28 February 2009 (EST)

Where'd she go?

Her last contributions (February 2009) were a slew of merges. Then, you say Amelia, that she deleted her GEDCOM.

And no one has heard from her since. :-(

Anyone know?

Who else have we been losing this year?

-- jillaine 15:46, 16 July 2009 (EDT)

Jillaine, Ronni just left all of sudden. She had a lot of work to do or something.--Beth 15:58, 16 July 2009 (EDT)

hi [1 November 2009]

Hi Ronnie, glad to see you back. How've you been? Both our eldest left home in the last two months. It's a little strange. --sq 10:34, 1 November 2009 (EST)

Cool! Also glad! -- Jillaine 12:00, 1 November 2009 (EST)
Yea!! I didn't know that. Welcome back Ronnie.--Beth 12:08, 1 November 2009 (EST)
Hi Guys and thanks for the welcome back! Looks like quite a few changes have occurred, not to mention Solveig's kids moving out (hang in there Sq) and Jillaine getting all fancy with her sig. :) --Ronni 15:28, 1 November 2009 (EST)

linking to [7 March 2012]

Do contributors of WeRelate link a family to a larger family tree in If so, how? Or should I just refer to it as a source? Jeanette Sherbondy--Jeanette Sherbondy 15:38, 6 March 2012 (EST)

Hi Jeanette,
Ronni's not active any longer. To answer your question, you can cite a publicly accessible tree as an interim measure if you have no other source (i.e., cite Public Member Trees or Source:RootsWeb's WorldConnect Project with a link to the particular tree in the source detail field). However, the citation should be removed as soon as you have a better source. If the tree is private, do not cite it, because other users cannot access it. Rather than linking to a tree on, you should add it here, which permits you to clean it up, improve the sources, and improve it through communal editing.--Amelia 23:18, 6 March 2012 (EST)

Thank you Amelia. That makes perfect sense. Jeanette--Jeanette Sherbondy 11:11, 7 March 2012 (EST)