WeRelate talk:Forum (Nederlands)/Archief 2011

Dutch welcome message [5 January 2011]

I'm noticing what appears to be an increase in the number of Dutch users signing up to WeRelate. I wonder if welcoming them with our standard welcome message is adequate. Being able to welcome them in Dutch might be friendly :-) (or it might be considered rude since only admins have access to their country of origin). I know this template was developed, but not everybody wants that on their talk page. If we do modify the welcome message, I'd like to consider adding links to this forum page, the portal, and suggest the use of language boxes.

So, my questions are: should we consider welcoming users from the Netherlands in Dutch (as well as English)? What format might be best for this? --Jennifer (JBS66) 09:51, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Ik vind het wel juist de nieuwe Nederlandse deelnemers in hun eigen taal te verwelkomen. Mijn probleem met het template was, dat ongevraagd een dergelijk template op mijn talk-page werd geplaatst. Ik vind wel het minste, op deze mogelijkheid te wijzen en dan pas deze pagina te activeren, maar verwelkomen, waarom niet. Wie schrijft dat ik goed begrijpelijk Nederlands? (Jennifer, is this text in Dutch for you fully understandable?)--Klaas (Ekjansen) 10:12, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Yes, I believe I do understand. You think the welcome message would be a good idea and less intrusive, perhaps, then putting a template on their page. I put together a few ideas for everyone below. --Jennifer (JBS66) 11:00, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Welkom bij WeRelate, your virtual genealogical community. We are glad you have joined us. At WeRelate you can easily create ancestor web pages, connect with other genealogists, and find new information. Om te beginnen:

• Learn wiki basisbeginselen in this Spiekbriefje (in het Nederlands)
• Create a User page to tell other people about yourself and the families you are researching.
  Consider adding language templates to your page as well
• Visit our Nederland Portaal pagina
• Take the WeRelate tour to see what you can do (in het Engels)
• Watch the "Getting Started" tutorial videos and learn how to make wiki pages for your ancestors (in het Engels)
• Explore the Step-by-step Tutorials, if needed (in het Engels)

If you need any assistance, you can leave a message on the Nederlands forum, and we will be glad to help!

We now have a Welkom message in Dutch: Template:WelkomNL. Dank u wel to Klaas for your suggestions and to Govegus for the translation! --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:30, 5 January 2011 (EST)

Naming conventions when name is unknown [6 apr 2010]

WeRelate's naming conventions states that when a surname (or given name for that matter) is not known - "keep the Surname field blank or enter 'Unknown.'" However, our users from countries outside the United States use phrases particular to their language. Dutch gedcoms are coming in with the word onbekend, which means unknown in Dutch. Other users put the letters N.N. I wanted to invite discussion here as to possible solutions for data consistency. One example of a potential problem is: I import a Dirkje Unknown married to Sije Wiersma. Another user uploads Dirkje Onbekend married to Sije Wiersma. Will the software recognize these as potential matches? Will this affect our automatic categories at the bottom of pages (they will be inconsistent)? Will multiple language variations for the word unknown confuse users? Should we change the Naming Conventions to read: Keep the field blank (then the software will automatically write in the word Unknown, in English)? I will post a note on Dallan's page inviting him to this discussion. Thank you in advance for your input. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:13, 6 April 2010 (EDT)

We have the multilangual problem at Rodovid. Bacause the search for duplicates doesn't match different languages it is now not possible to upload gedcoms, Rodovid has 19 language locations and the multilanguality is preferred now above the gedcom upload possibility. I think that WeRelate also has to choose for only english or multilanguality but then there will be the problem again for duplicates. Who is smart enough to solve this problem ? I now already discovered that Karel Karolingen and Charles Carlovingian were not matched until I did that, but the search engine did not find the match. Also not found was Juliana of Orange-Nassau and Juliana van Oranje Nassau. So I propose to keep all english until multilinguality works here--Regards, salutations, Grüssen, groeten, Fred Bergman 07:31, 6 April 2010 (EDT)

Index voor pilot.familysearch.org [31 October 2010]

Nadere toegang op de scans vervaardigd door Frank vd Velde. Zie: http://www.famvandevelde.nl/

--Leo Bijl 05:01, 29 May 2010 (EDT)

Zie ook: http://www.stamboomforum.nl/actualiteit/2/27426/0/de_links_van_familysearch_scans_burg_stand_div_provincies_op_een_rijtje

Kwartierstaat template translation [4 apr 2011]

Hallo,

If there are any Dutch users that would be interested in helping me translate this page to Dutch, please leave a message on the talk page. I already changed Name to Naam, Father to Vader, and Mother to Moeder. Within the template, I need a bit of help with the words: subject, page, and real. The instructions and headings will also need translating. Bedankt!--Jennifer (JBS66) 16:25, 1 August 2010 (EDT)

Added an translation next to your original English text. The common translation for the words are : subject = onderwerp, page = pagina, and real = werkelijke.--cabrioot 16:34, 4 April 2011 (EDT)

Reorganisatie Nederlandse bronnen [29 August 2010]

I wanted to mention that User:Leo Bijl and I began a project page to reorganize WR's Dutch sources: Reorganisatie Nederlandse bronnen.

This is at the very beginning stages. I think the first step is to define the problem, and devise a more appropriate naming scheme. This would be a large project, but one that I think would be helpful to WR and its Dutch users. Currently, sources are titled as they are in the FHLC, which is often not how they are titled in Dutch archives. Opinions welcome!--Jennifer (JBS66) 06:37, 29 August 2010 (EDT)

Instructions in Dutch for importing a gedcom [28 December 2010]

I think it would be helpful for new Dutch users if we had a Dutch guide to uploading a gedcom. The process can be challenging, and all of the current instructions are in English. Also, there are a few things for users to be aware of, that are particular to Dutch gedcoms.

Some of my ideas are:

1. People without surnames: Their patronymic name needs to be in the surname field, not the given name field. Sample problem: if there is a person named Antje Jans, if the patroymic name is in the given name field, the page will be titled Antje.
2. Warning percentage: Users upload their data, print the warnings, fix the warnings on their home computer, and reupload. We are running into problems where Dutch gedcoms have higher "warnings" that are, indeed, accurate. Births before marriage are common which increase the warning %.
3. Places: They need to have at least the province and country included. Country can be called either Netherlands or Nederland. These can be matched at the time of upload. However, it would be easier for the user to edit the places in their gedcom (especially if they want to upload another section of their gedcom in the future). Most software allows users to "globally" edit their places.
4. Family Matches tab: Many people who upload a gedcom to WR for the first time are brand new users who have never edited a page. The Family Matches tab compares a page in their gedcom to a suspected duplicate page on WeRelate. The intention is to add your data to the existing page. First, take a look at the two columns and decide if they "Match" or are "Not a Match" and press the appropriate button. Then, the next screen will ask users to compare each line item and check the box for the data they want imported. Unchecking a box on the right will remove that data from the page. The must then scroll down to the bottom of the page and press the Update button (many users forget this). I think it is non-intuitive that user's data is not automatically imported when pages match, they must choose what to import in this case. Matching families should be one of the last items they do - after fixing places, after attending to their warnings, etc.
5. Early exclusions: For new users, their "early people" (approximately before 1720) are going to be excluded from import. When they have more experience using WeRelate, they can ask for their name to be added to a list that will allow early people to be imported.

Does anybody else have ideas, suggestions, etc? --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:11, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Makes me think of something else: can't w.r. make a specific field for the patronymicum? Programmes don't have it, I suppose, generally. --Leo Bijl 15:48, 28 December 2010 (EST)

I think many of the common software packages don't have a field for it. I know that RootsMagic doesn't. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:51, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Stamboom Koopmans [28 December 2010]

Researching the Koopmans family? I came across a new addition to the Tresoar site today: Source:Koopmans, Gerhard. Stamboom Koopmans. --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:02, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Alt names for the Netherlands [17 January 2011]

I am looking at the Place:Netherlands page, and I think some of the alt-names that are listed are unnecessary. Most of these were gathered automatically from various sources. We do need to keep the abbreviations NL and NLD to help the gedcom matcher work. We likely also need to keep Holland. Can anybody offer suggestions for which alt-names we can delete? --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:38, 16 January 2011 (EST)

Ik denk, dat Nederland, Netherlands, Holland, NL en NLD genoeg is. De officiële namen, Republiek der Vereenigde Nederlanden, Koninkrijk der Nederlanden etc. zou plaats moeten vinden in een algemene beschrijving in verbinding met een historisch overzicht.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 01:43, 17 January 2011 (EST)

Wanneer 1900 de 'standard' is Zie > places in Netherlands is 'Dutch Republic' niet van toepassing. Misschien Pays-Bas nog handhaven. Groet, Lidewij 03:49, 17 January 2011 (EST)

Thank you both for the suggestions. I moved the unnecessary alt names to the talk page for now. Perhaps someday we can remove the text from Wikipedia (or maybe I'm the only person who that bothers :-) --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:12, 17 January 2011 (EST)

When The Netherlands then also Les Pays-Bas!--Klaas (Ekjansen) 07:14, 17 January 2011 (EST)

I thought that The Netherlands may need to stay for people who put that in their gedcoms (ie Person:Cornelis Kalishoek (2) or Person:Jan Van Cleef (3)). The alt-name field also helps to match places properly during gedcom upload, but I did a test and it looks like taking that out is ok.--Jennifer (JBS66) 07:33, 17 January 2011 (EST)

Emigratie [30 January 2011]

In samenwerking met Jennifer is een nieuwe categorie gedefineerd: Dutch immigrants to the United States. Het is de bedoeling in deze categorie de personen die in Nederland zijn geboren en naar de Verenigde Staten zijn geëmigreerd op te nemen. Tevens de gezinnen die aan dezelfde voorwaarden voldoen. Ik zal in de loop der tijd de personen, die ik vind, en in deze categorie passen, aan deze categorie toevoegen. Ook stel ik het zeer op prijs, wanneer andere WeRelate-gebruikers hieraan meewerken.

De categorie kan toegevoegd worden in de rubriek Person/Family history, als internal link: Category:Dutch immigrants to the United States. Mogelijk is dit een nuttig hulpmiddel om verbindingen tussen Amerikaanse en Nederlandse genealogiën te leggen.

Niets staat in de weg ook dergelijke categoriën voor Canada, Australië etc. te defineren--Klaas (Ekjansen) 05:16, 28 January 2011 (EST)

Klaas, when adding the category to Family pages, is there a criteria you have in mind? I added it to pages where both spouses were born in NL and immigrated to the U.S. What about families such as Family:Fred Baker and Dirkje Swart (1), where one spouse was not born in NL? --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:30, 28 January 2011 (EST)

I add the category to the family when both partners are born in NL and emigrated to the US.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 06:43, 28 January 2011 (EST)

I wonder if we want to distinguish between the immigrants from the 1600-1700's and the 1800-1900's, or allow all Dutch immigrants into this category. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:09, 30 January 2011 (EST)

I would. Maybe we call it Early Durch immigrants. These should go till 1799. Well, this is just my opinion.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 07:19, 30 January 2011 (EST)

I like that title. I created a Category:Early Dutch immigrants to the United States page. --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:30, 30 January 2011 (EST)

Nederlandse bronnen [3 February 2011]

Now that we have a plan for how WeRelate's Burgerlijke Stand sources should be titled, I'd like to look ahead to some of the other source titles. Below in bold are links to pages for examples of how the pages are currently titled.

• Registers van de Burgerlijke Administratie: (which the FHLC says contains this). This appears to really be the DTB (or is it DTBL?).
• Registers der Bevolking: I believe these are commonly known as Bevolkingsregister.
• Naamsaannemingen: Naamsaanneming appears more common - though Frisland differs in calling it Familienamen.
• Successie Memories: Memories van Successie appears to be the commonly used term for this.

Thoughts and opinions are welcome. --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:35, 3 February 2011 (EST)

DTB or DTBL means Doop- Trouw- Begraafboeken and L is for Lidmaten. These are from the time before the Burgerlijke Stand was introduced. In some archives its called OBS (Oude Burgerlijke Stand)

The Registers van de Burgerlijke Stand, I would shorten this to Burgerlijke Stand cover the Birth, Marriage, Divorce and Death records from 1796(part of Zeeland, Limburg)/1811(rest) on.

Next to these registers came later on the Bevolkingsregister. Introduced in Zeeland 1825, Utrecht 1828 and the rest after the census of 1849. Inhere are the families administrated or even better the people living on the same address.

The Naamsaanneming was also in Friesland called this way, and just the Tresoar website calls it familienamen.

Memories van Successie started in 1818, partly even earlier. And this is the correct name.

Only the last records were on the level of the Kantongerecht, the rest on Gemeente-level.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 12:29, 3 February 2011 (EST)

Cuyk en Sint Agatha [22 feb 2011]

I need a bit of assistance with Place:Cuyk en Sint Agatha, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands. First, I believe Cuyk is a misspelling, and that it should be Cuijk. Also, I'm trying to confirm what the gemeente was called around 1900. I appears to have been Cuijk en Sint Agatha. So, were Cuijk and Sint Agatha also towns underneath that gemeente? --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:14, 22 February 2011 (EST)

Zie Place talk:Cuyk en Sint Agatha, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands groet, --Lidewij 12:12, 22 February 2011 (EST)

Dutch proofreading [20 April 2011]

(Was also posted in the Watercooler)

On Image:1815 Netherlands, Westdongeradeel, Huwelijksakte 8.jpg I have included the transcription in Dutch and a translation in English using publicly available dictionaries. It could use some improvement by someone who understands the language much better than myself. If anyone who knows the language would like to take a look at it, thank you. Moverton 19:23, 20 April 2011 (EDT)

Nederlanders in WeRelate op plaats 2 [18 May 2011]

Door de grote aktiviteit van de Nederlandse deelnemers bij WeRelate is het aantal personen met een Nederlandse connectie boven de 135'000 gegroeid. Dat zijn personen waarvan een gebeurtenis in Netherlands is geregistreerd. De tweede plaats zullen we wel niet zo snel op moeten geven, want er komt dagelijks heel wat bij.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 05:24, 18 May 2011 (EDT)

I like this! Have you considered adding this info to Facebook & Twitter? --Jennifer (JBS66) 05:46, 18 May 2011 (EDT)

Merge instructies [15 2011]

I have a first draft of instructions for merging pages at Hulp:Merge instructies. At this time, the instructions are in English. Please feel free to add translations and edit as necessary. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:07, 21 May 2011 (EDT)

Is this different than Help:Merging pages? And why wouldn't you just leave the English instructions on that page and put just the translated instructions on the new page? Moverton 15:07, 21 May 2011 (EDT)

I wanted to create a framework of instructions that would be easier to understand if English was not your native language. That is why I created a pdf version with images, because I think a few of the merging concepts can be difficult to explain with words alone. I don't speak Dutch, and I'm not sure when this page might get translated, so I wanted to offer Dutch users the most understandable guide possible. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:16, 21 May 2011 (EDT)

Wat is er mis?/What is wrong? [15 June 2011]

Ik heb geen juist scherm van WeRelate/I have no correct screen WeRelate. --Lidewij 13:15, 15 June 2011 (EDT)

Edit is also not good --Lidewij 13:19, 15 June 2011 (EDT)

Hallo, Lidewij, which pages are you have trouble with and can you describe what is not working correctly? Also, what browser are you using (Firefox, Chrome, Internet Explorer)? It is ok if you respond in Dutch. --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:37, 15 June 2011 (EDT)

Ik gebruik Internet Explorer

Er is geen volglijst/ no watchlist, no navigation, no edit at top, enz --Lidewij 13:52, 15 June 2011 (EDT)

Thank you for letting us know - I will pass this information along to Dallan. One more question, what version (versie) of Internet Explorer do you have? If you go to IE>Tools>About Internet Explorer, that will display the version number. --Jennifer (JBS66) 14:04, 15 June 2011 (EDT)

Internet Explorer 8

This morning there was no problem. / Vanmorgen was er geen probleem.--Lidewij 14:29, 15 June 2011 (EDT)

Search does not work now navigate through categories

Some places that I have already edited, I can edit. Other non --Lidewij 15:55, 15 June 2011 (EDT)

Dallan fixed a bug - are things looking better for you now or are you still experiencing problems? --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:33, 15 June 2011 (EDT)

Jennifer, dank. The problem is resolved. Met vriendelike groet, --Lidewij 17:43, 15 June 2011 (EDT)

Graag gedaan, bedankt again for letting us know! --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:45, 15 June 2011 (EDT)

Iets veranderen [19 jun 2011]

In december heb ik iets in de naam veranderd, dit veroorzaakte gelijk een scheiding. Wat deed ik fout?

http://www.werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Person%3ABastiaantje_De_Deugd_%281%29&diff=15558385&oldid=11650518

Moet ik ergens nog iets lezen om niet deze fouten te maken? Ik zie dit probleem nu pas?

Mvg,--Lidewij 05:14, 19 June 2011 (EDT)

Ja, I see what happened. It appears that you saw the De Deugd in the Spouse and children family field and changed it to de Deugd. Small mistakes like this were common enough that Dallan changed those fields so they can no longer be edited (so you should not have this problem in the future). I will fix the pages that connect to this family for you. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:06, 19 June 2011 (EDT)

Ja hallo. Dit is geen oplossen. Terug brengen naar de oude toestand had ik ook wel kunnen bedenken. Waarom opnieuw met een hoofdletter. Dus waarom de fout weer terug ? Fouten moeten toch verbeterd kunnen worden?

Yes Hello. This is not resolved. Bring it back to the old situation had I can think of. Why again with an uppercase letter. So why the error back? Errors should still can be improved? Mvg, --Lidewij 06:24, 19 June 2011 (EDT)

Are you asking why is there a capital De in the page title for Person:Bastiaantje De Deugd (1) instead of a small de? When a gedcom is imported, page titles have Van De Den Der, etc. When a page is created manually in WR (without a gedcom), the page title has van de den der. This is a mistake in the software that Dallan has on his list to change (so gedcoms import with lower-case in the future). --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:01, 19 June 2011 (EDT)

That is 1. How it arises. Now 2. There is a mistake in the name. Givenfront, Surname or between. This will be the same problem. A separation of the rest of the family. All connections must separately be improved? Mvg, --Lidewij 07:49, 19 June 2011 (EDT)

I can't find the "separation of the rest of the family" - sorry. Which page is missing a connection? --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:17, 19 June 2011 (EDT)

Sorry. I mean if. If ... there is a mistake in the name. And you make the fix. It make a separation of the rest of the family. You must fix all the relatives separately --Lidewij 08:29, 19 June 2011 (EDT)

Ah, I see :-) First, I would not fix the "case" of any name prefix in a page title. What I mean is that I would not fix Van>van or De>de - there are just too many of these that have been imported from gedcoms as uppercase. These are generally correct in the surname field (so they appear correctly in the blue box on the page), so we just ignore that small mistake in the page title.

To answer your question, let me use Family:Cornelis Luijendijk and Bastiaantje De Deugd (1) as an example. Let's suppose Luijendijk was wrong and his real surname was van Dijk - to fix the page title you would click on Rename from the menu on the left, fix the name in the To new title box, and press Rename page. That will fix the page title for the Family, then you would need to also rename the page for the Person. This will not cause a separation in the family - but it will not rename the pages for any children, that would need to be fixed separately. --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:41, 19 June 2011 (EDT)

Aha rename, stupid of me. :-( I am familiar with wiki. but I don't think in wiki but in genealogy. Thank You. Mvg, --Lidewij 08:59, 19 June 2011 (EDT)