User talk:Tammyhensel

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Welcome to WeRelate, your virtual genealogical community. We're glad you have joined us. At WeRelate you can easily create ancestor web pages, connect with cousins and other genealogists, and find new information. To get started:

If you need any help, we will be glad to answer your questions. Just go to the Support page, click on the Add Topic link, type your message, then click the Save Page button. Thanks for participating and see you around! --Support 21:40, 30 August 2011 (EDT)


Person/Family page titles [13 September 2011]

Hello, I am a volunteer admin here at WeRelate. I noticed that you have titled a few pages to include different name variations - like Person:Elizabeth/Elise Weil (1). Pages on WeRelate should be titled Firstname LastName only (using the preferred name spelling). Any alternate spellings can be placed in the name fields from within the edit screen. Please rename the Person and Family pages by clicking on Rename from the menu at the left. Our naming conventions can be found here. Let me know if you have any questions, thank you, --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:42, 13 September 2011 (EDT)


Person:Robert De Holand (3) child of Thurston? [29 September 2011]

Curious why you included Robert De Holand as child of Thurston and Margaret? Lundy suggests instead Robert and Margaret on the basis of, admittedly, weak sources. Still, I would expect to see an argument about why we should believe something else. --jrm03063 15:33, 26 September 2011 (EDT)


I plan to go add sources later. Here is one: British History online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=41385 --Tammyhensel 16:13, 26 September 2011 (EDT)


I added some more sources to Robert de Holland. I was really surprised that he had not been connected to Thurstan before because every source I've read has him listed in the genealogy of the Upholland family. But I don't have access to the one you mentioned. I'm quite new to WeRelate and still figuring out how to do things. So welcome any help. Thank you.--Tammyhensel 17:22, 26 September 2011 (EDT)


I'm thrilled to see others out there - really - thanks for jumping in! The present content of WeRelate in the "medieval spaces" originated from a lot of random GEDCOMs being dumped in, then de-duplicated and made more sane by liberal use of Wikipedia and "The Peerage" (Darryl Lundy's site). We also try to use Cawley (Medieval Lands) when it has appropriate content. While all that has seriously cleaned up a data base with dubious origins, it's ultimately no substitute for specialist researchers active in the area (which I most definitely am not!). My goal has been to get the space to the point where it isn't a waste of time for someone with specialist knowledge to begin contributing. I sincerely hope this is where you come in! I took the liberty of massaging your first source into something like what community standards suggest (at least as far as I understand them). British History on-line hosts a lot of transcriptions, so here at WeRelate we consider it to be a repository. The specific item transcribed and used is the source - and I took a stab at creating that page as well. I also like to add the relevant quotation so people can better see what is specifically being drawn upon. Finally, I liberally annotated the quotation to help make things a bit more persuasive. I also added a note to the Lundy source, indicating that in this case we discount it (I'm a bit of a zealot about recognizing incorrect sources as a way to try to avoid letting bad content creep back in once it's finally been recognized as incorrect). Welcome aboard! I hope you'll have fun! --jrm03063 12:10, 27 September 2011 (EDT)


I am by no means a specialist, but was a history and journalism major in college. I adore research! Genealogy is definitely a hobby and I don't have as much time for genealogy as I'd like. I'm a freelance writer and editor (www.DedicatedPublicationServices.com). I'm afraid I've been somewhat sloppy in citing sources on WeRelate because I became anxious to put up my trees and see if they connected to pages already there. I plan to go back in fill in more sources as I have time.--Tammyhensel 12:20, 27 September 2011 (EDT)


What is the url for Lundy's site? I'm interested to see if he has anything about Thomas Holland (b. 1456), son of Henry Holland, 3rd Duke of Exeter (1430-1475). Except for Wikipedia, I can't find one historical reference that lists Thomas as a legitimate son. If they list him at all, they say he was illegitimate, mother unknown. It may just be that they are going by the fact that the inheritance went to his daughter Anne. But there are many reasons why a legitimate son may have been disinherited. And apparently Duke Henry did have several mistresses. Every genealogy that lists Thomas as a son has him as illegitimate. One genealogist said the only reason she was listing him was because he was the progenitor of the prominent Holland family in America.--Tammyhensel 13:30, 27 September 2011 (EDT)

Lundy is the second source item on the page for Henry. Lundy has him as the 2nd Duke instead of the the third (see Henry de Holand, 2nd Duke of Exeter). We sometimes refer to it simply as "thepeerage" or The Peerage. It doesn't look like Lundy has Thomas.

Thank you. :)--Tammyhensel 14:06, 27 September 2011 (EDT)


I found a listing on Family Search for Thomas Holland as the son of Duke Henry Holland and Lady Anne Plantagenet. So far it's the only resource besides Wikipedia to list him as a legitimate son. Don't know if I'll ever discover the truth of his parentage.--Tammyhensel 23:08, 27 September 2011 (EDT)


I'm still new to WeRelate and can't figure out how to initiate a new thread, so just adding to this one to communicate. I have discovered some errors in my Holland family line. It seems that some of the info I got on FamilySearch was wrong. It looks like my line does not go through Gabriel Holland and thus to the Upholland family. I may need help fixing my tree. How do I message you?--Tammyhensel 19:30, 28 September 2011 (EDT)


How do I delete pages?--Tammyhensel 22:17, 28 September 2011 (EDT)

Look under the "more" pull down, but I don't think ordinary users can. I think the process for ordinary users is to put the "mark for speedy delete" template on the page, but I'm a volunteer admin so I can get rid of them for you. What page(s) do you want to make disappear? --jrm03063 10:09, 29 September 2011 (EDT)

I discovered that I was barking up the wrong family tree, so to speak. I took a wrong turn because of same names with a father and son duo in my Holland line that had the same first names as same generations in another line. So I'm trying to correct that info. There were a couple of pages that I put up Anthony Holland and Isabella Parsons that I discovered upon further research are not in my family and are not in the Gabriel Holland family, to which I had attached them. The only source I have for their information is FamilySearch. So I'm not totally sure what I put on their pages is accurate. Decided the best thing was to delete their pages, but can't figure out how.--Tammyhensel 10:31, 29 September 2011 (EDT)


Info you added to Person:Benjamin Waite (12) [12 September 2013]

..has more to do with the Graves family than Benjamin Waite himself. I would advise against added large amount of text only teniously related to the person (in theory, I could add the same thing for several of his other grandchildren).--Daniel Maxwell 23:50, 11 September 2013 (EDT)


My thinking was to put all references to him to show his connection. The first passage had to do with land he owned, so showed his residence in the area as a neighbor of a Graves family member. I don't know if any other sources. The others showed connections between the two families, evidence for children and grandchildren that I'm in the process of adding. I guess I can just put that part on the pages for each of the children and grandchildren, but wanted to show that the families are connected.--Tammyhensel 00:02, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

I would do that instead on the pages for the children/grandchildren. We like to have sources, but they don't need to be added right away, espeically if it is a work in progress. Daniel Maxwell 00:03, 12 September 2013 (EDT)

One of the paragraphs was more about the Waite families than the Graves.It refers to Benjamin Waite saving his daughter and other Waite and Graves family members from Indians. It also repeats the info about him being a neighbor of the Graves, which I didn't realize. So I kept that paragraph on there and deleted the rest.--Tammyhensel 00:20, 12 September 2013 (EDT)


Entering names when adding new pages [18 September 2013]

Hello Tammy,

When you Add a new Person or Family page, please enter only the surname in the surname field. Jr., Sr., III, etc should be added after the pages are created by clicking on Edit and entering that data in the Name Suffix field. I've renamed a few of your pages to remove the suffixes, so I thought I would send you a note to explain. Thanks, --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:17, 18 September 2013 (EDT)


Luderus Family [5 October 2013]

I am not conviced that the line of Luderus is proved. The source you are using seems to be very poor. Please do add data about this family with original sources.--Klaas 22:03, 26 September 2013 (UTC)


I wrote an email to the researcher, Tim Harrington, who provided me with the information to ask more about his sources. I do know that he has done extensive research and I consider him very reliable. I think he was just too busy at the time to send me a more complete listing of his sources.--Tammyhensel 22:20, 26 September 2013 (UTC)


Tim said the family line was a topic in a pre-WWII genealogy newsletter. He sent me a pdf with an excerpt, but it is in either Dutch or German, so I'll have to see if I can translate it through a document translation program. The title of the publication is MAANDBLAD, it's dated Feb. 1927. He also sent me a Census Record, and death certificate for Dina Kuijpers Luderus. He will send me more records later. I'll post as I get them.--Tammyhensel 23:27, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

I believe this publication is de Nederlandsche Leeuw, jaargang 45 (1927). The article is Bijdrage tot de genealogie van de geslachten Martinius - Oosterbaan Martinius - Luderus (sinds het einde der 18e eeuw Ludérus) beginning on pg. 14. It's available online here: http://www.knggw.nl/raadplegen/de-nederlandsche-leeuw/1927-45. This article is in Dutch, and luckily Klaas is fluent in Dutch :) --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:53, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you.--Tammyhensel 14:04, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


I'm having some trouble finding a good translation program for this document, so I'm not sure which people are covered. Tim sent me a more complete flow chart than the previous one with more people on it. Do you want me to add them, or not? I think this article is his primary source, but since I can't read it, I can't confirm that.--Tammyhensel 15:13, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I would say wait on adding the new people for now. Klaas is away for a few days, so I'm not sure if he'll do research on this until he returns. I'll lend a hand with this as well. What I would tend to do is that when I find corresponding data in this article, I'd remove the Tim Harrington citation and replace it with a citation to de Nederlandsche Leeuw. Then, if we find a record through the Dutch archives, we'd add that as well. Some of the abbreviations you'll see in this document are listed on the source page for another publication, the Source:Nederland's Patriciaat --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:00, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Okay, it fine if you want to replace my source reference with something else. The first chart Tim sent me just gave the lineage from father to son and left out most spouses and daughters. It was also just my Luderus ancestor's line. The chart he just sent me has women and extended family on it, but is not complete with dates for everyone. I asked Tim if he had a report with sources he could send me. He said no and asked me if I wanted to collaborate to write one. So I'm attempting to do that using my Family Treemaker program and incorporating information from Tim, WeRelate, and other sources. If the project works out, we may publish it, so I appreciate any help you can give in sourcing my material.--Tammyhensel 16:52, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


I just remembered that I have a friend living in Netherlands who is fluent in Dutch. I've written her to see if she has time to translate this for me. I do want a good translation.--Tammyhensel 17:21, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

The 1927 article is a continuation. It begins on page 323 of vol. XLIV (1926) --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:23, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Is Family Search considered a reliable source I can reference? I'm finding some info there for this family.--Tammyhensel 18:26, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

That depends on which source within FamilySearch it is. If it's scanned copies of the birth/marriage/death records in the Netherlands (like sources #1 and #9 on Person:Pierre Luderus (1)), then that is good.
If it's a source like this, then I would use it for clues and try to locate that record via the index at Stadsarchief Amsterdam:
  • kind: , Willem
  • doopdatum: 05-01-1748
  • kerk: Westerkerk
  • godsdienst: Hervormd
  • vader: Luderus, Frederik
  • moeder: Arntzen, Anna Margreta
  • getuige: Arntzen, Hendrik
  • getuige: [van] Breda, Jacoba Menarda
  • bronverwijzing: DTB 111, p.128(folio 64v), nr.14
  • Doopregister: NL-SAA-23985033 --Jennifer (JBS66) 19:00, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

What I found so far are christening records that reference "Netherlands, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1910,"--Tammyhensel 19:17, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

The source I referenced above was from that same data collection. As you can see when you compare the link and the text found at the Stadsarchief, there are more details (including the specific source) through the Stadsarchief. The bron (which means source) for the record from the Stadsarchief is the DTB which means Doop-, Trouw- en Begraafboeken (baptism, marriage, and burial) which are reliable. The Netherlands has a wealth of data available online! --Jennifer (JBS66) 19:33, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I followed the link you posted and registered on the site, then tried to look up records. But it appears that in order to see the records I have to order a scan. Is that right? Is there a way to see the records for free? I have my computer set to translate automatically to English, but some things aren't translating, so maybe I'm missing something. I've found several new people, spouses and children for this family listed on Family Search, all referenced. I'd like to add them, but want to be correct in sourcing.--Tammyhensel 16:15, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

To view the scans, there is a charge. However, with many of the databases, you can extract some information from the index. I would be happy to work with you on this, if you'd like. You could enter the people, and I can find the sources. I specialize in Dutch research, so this is something I do all the time :)
http://stadsarchief.amsterdam.nl/archieven/archiefbank/indexen/index.nl.html
  • Doopregisters: baptisms before 1811
  • Ondertrouwregisters: marriage notices before 1811
Type in a name (can use the * wildcard). Then, when the results are displayed, there is pink button that says "toon resultaat" -> click that. Then, when you hover over the results, a box with more information pops up on the right. --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:24, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

That sounds great. I can go ahead and list the family search link in case you want to refer to it, but you can delete that if you find a more substantial source.--Tammyhensel 13:52, 30 September 2013 (UTC)


Jennifer, I don't know how to attach the source to the event. I'm sorry you're having to do that for all my pages. How do I do it?--Tammyhensel 14:48, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

If you haven't yet entered a source for an event: underneath the row of date/location/description for an event are 3 boxes. The first is the Source box. If you click the + sign to the left of the box, it will create a new source citation below attached to that event. If you create the source first, you can enter S1 or S2, etc (the S# that is displayed next to the citation) in the source box. btw, the same processes apply for attaching an image or note. Other small things I'm changing are date formats (abbreviating the month or removing periods). The preferred format on WR for dates is 9 Jan 1900. I'm also adding in the page numbers from the article so that I can find the families easier :) I combined the article into 1 pdf and printed it out and I'm highlighting what we've done as I go along. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:03, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks again. I only have an excerpt of the article and I don't think it includes page numbers. If it does, my friend who is translating it for me is not including page numbers with the translation. I guess I need to ask her to do that. She is sending me sections at a time as she has a moment to work on it. I still don't have the first article in the series, which I really want. How do I get a copy of it?--Tammyhensel 15:14, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

If you'd like me to send you the pdf I have of the whole article, you can message me your email address via this link --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:36, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm finding several travel records on Ancestry.com for Luderus family members with the Dutch East India Company to Batavia, the old name for Jakarta, Indonesia. For some reason google isn't translating the website for me. Since I can't read the details I can't be sure they refer to this Luderus family. I find it interesting that they would be associated with the Dutch East India Company. If you have time will you look at the links and see if you think they refer to this Luderus family and if so if there is any signficant info to add to their pages?

Paulus Luderus could be [[1]]
http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/detail.aspx?ID=654257
http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/detail.aspx?ID=655431
http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/detail.aspx?ID=663204

Fredrick Luderus(some records have Luders an some Luderus, so could be 2 different men.)3 different men :-)
1
http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/detail.aspx?ID=802025 Fredrik Luders from Steur, sailor who could fire a canon (1746-1748)
http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/detail.aspx?ID=1080489 Fredrik Luders from Desteur,sailor who could fire a canon (1750-1752)
2
http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/detail.aspx?ID=1182657 Frederik Luder from Altermark, soldier died 25 Aug 1749 on board
3
http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/detail.aspx?ID=631850 Frederik Luder from Marpurg (could be Marburg Germany, military educated to be an officer (1726-18 Jan 1762 Died)

Henrik Luderus
http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/detail.aspx?ID=1279048
Gegevens van Hendrik Luderus uit Amsterdam
Datum indiensttreding: 09-05-1761
Datum uit dienst: 31-12-1762
Functie bij indiensttreding: Jongen Boy, so, he must be 15, 16 years? Born around 1745?
Reden uit dienst: Overleden Died
Uitgevaren met het schip: Sloterdijk
Waar uit dienst: Azie
Maandbrief: Nee
Schuldbrief: Nee
Gegevens van de vaart
Schip: Sloterdijk
Vertrek: 09-05-1761
Kamer: Amsterdam
Kaap: 14-09-1761
03-10-1761
Inventarisnummer: 6400
Folio: 192
Aankomst: 21-12-1761 Batavia
DAS- en reisnr.: 3811.2
Opmerkingen: Deel bemanning op 24-02-1761 aan boord

--Tammyhensel 15:49, 4 October 2013 (UTC)