Help talk:Place pages


Details of place page titles moved to the existing policy page [19 April 2009]

The section on creating new place pages contained a nicely formatted detailed discussion about how to name place pages. Unfortunately, it was completely at odds with the policy stated over on WeRelate:Place page titles and actually being used in the wiki. I changed the examples here to be consistent with the current policy, and moved the details over to the WeRelate:Place page titles page, with a reference to that page here. --TomChatt 01:49, 30 December 2006 (MST)

As of now, this is a circular re-direct; it takes you (in two steps) right back to Help:Place pages. --Mike (mksmith) 10:46, 19 April 2009 (EDT)
Fixed now.--Dallan 11:24, 6 May 2009 (EDT)

Map coordinates input defaulting to E [24 May 2009]

I have been trying to add maps to places linked from my tree but after a few successful entries the coordinates input has begun default to E instead of W. Even after being edited, the result always is somewhere in Asia rather than in the Western hemisphere. --gewurztraminer 12:55, 19 May 2009 (EDT)

I think it defaulted to E all along; I've changed it to default to W.--Dallan 18:07, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

Thanks! --dayna 18:09, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
Oops, it's still not working. I just added coordinates to Brooks Cemetery and even though I entered a W after the numbers, the end result is an place in Asia. I'll leave that page the way it is so you can see what happened. --dayna 16:45, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
I wonder if you entered a - (minus sign) before the numbers. The way the code was written, -94 W got translated to 94 E. I just changed it so that -94 W gets translated to 94 W. Hopefully that solves the problem.--Dallan 10:30, 24 May 2009 (EDT)
Maybe there's a problem with copying and pasting Google Map's coordinates. I'm fairly certain I've caught the minus sign, but I'll type it manually from now on just to be sure. Thanks again for your help. --dayna 12:44, 24 May 2009 (EDT)

Adding Cemetery Pages [26 November 2009]

Can I add new cemetery pages? I looked on the index and there were only a few listed for Texas. Is there a tutorial? Thanks.--Suzyq 23:39, 25 November 2009 (EST)

Yes, you may add cemetery pages. See cemeteries as places on this help page. --Beth 11:16, 26 November 2009 (EST)

How do I obtain a list of all Place pages on WeRelate? [23 January 2010]

I know I have a lot of badly worded Place pages within my trees and I want to fix them. How do I obtain a list of all places on WeRelate or better yet, a list of all places in one or more of my trees? The Search page results list does not display the Place field. Thanks. Jillaine 10:30, 18 January 2010 (EST)

The problem here, Jillaine, is that these places you are speaking of have not been created yet. Since there is an error in the place name, it's red-linked. You could see a list of Special:Wantedpages, but I don't know how to limit that by your username.--Jennifer (JBS66) 10:39, 18 January 2010 (EST)

Jillaine enter an empty search under the namespace Place and check the box watched pages; but I am not sure if this will find your badly worded places. --Beth 13:11, 18 January 2010 (EST)
Beth, I tried that; it only looks for Place PAGES that I am watching.
Jennifer, thanks for the reminder that red-linked pages will not show up in the Search results. Duh. Jillaine 14:45, 18 January 2010 (EST)
It doesn't help solve the problem that you are talking about, but if you want to see a list of all places for a country, you can go to the place page for that country and under the "How places are organized" section you'll see links for lists of places in that country sorted alphabetically and hierarchically.--Dallan 13:32, 23 January 2010 (EST)

United Kingdom [1 September 2010]

It appears that the guidelines for places names and all places in the United Kingdom conflict. It it very explicit in the guidelines that all of the levels of jurisdiction be included in a place name and yet England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are all top-level place names. That is particularly ridiculous with Northern Ireland and Wales as they have never been independent, coherent political entities in that form. Even for England and Scotland it is dubious since they have not been sovereign nations in and of themselves for over 300 years. The argument that it would produce long, unwieldy place names to have four levels also cannot be sustained as four levels are in place for virtually all US place names.

I suggest that the four component parts of the United Kingdom need putting in that sovereign nation in the WeRelate places namespace. David Newton 18:25, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

Hello David, Could you please provide an example for me/us. What it is now on WeRelate and what you propose to change it to? Thanks Debbie Freeman --DFree 19:06, 30 August 2010 (EDT)
Consider Bentley in Hampshire. At the moment Place: Bentley, Hampshire, England links to it and Place: Bentley, Hampshire, England, United Kingdom does not. In genealogical software the canonical name for places in the UK is, like the US, four level. There is the place, the county, the component of the UK and the UK itself. As I said although England and Scotland were distinct, coherent political entities and an argument could be made to leave them in their current form that cannot be said for Wales and Northern Ireland. Place: England, Place: Scotland, Place: Wales and Place: Northern Ireland need putting in the United Kingdom. David Newton 15:23, 1 September 2010 (EDT)
If you want to rename the thousands of place pages in the UK, you're welcome to do it. As a possible alternative, Place:England has also-located-in links to various incarnations of the UK., so a less correct but simpler solution would be to do the same for the other countries. This would at least cause places like Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom in uploaded GEDCOM's to link to the correct place pages.
Currently, because the UK is listed as an also-located-in place for England, places like Bentley, Hampshire, England, United Kingdom in uploaded GEDCOM's correctly link to the place page for Bentley. But since UK is not currently listed as an also-located-in place for Wales, places like Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom in uploaded GEDCOM files do not get linked to the correct place page. Adding UK as an also-located-in place for Wales, Northern Ireland, and Scotland would at least solve that problem.--Dallan 16:45, 1 September 2010 (EDT)

Rivers [17 April 2011]

I haven't seen it being done yet, and might be tricky to implement, but I'd like to see Rivers and/or bodies of water be included as places. They link inhabited places and are primary if not THE primary factors in migration and settlement. They could nest like places: Deep Run, Tohickon Creek, Delaware River, Atlantic Ocean. Admittedly they present multiple levels which may present difficulty, eg St Joseph River, Lake Michigan, Lake Huron, Detroit River, Lake St Clair, (river?), Lake Erie, Niagara River, Lake Ontario, St Lawrence River, Atlantic. For now, I'll just link to wiki articles on them, but I think they could become a great tool for tracking pre-railroad family/group migration. If this doesn't generate interest, fine, I'll just say, if you don't know where your family came from, look downstream. BTW, does anyone know a mapsite that does a better job than Google maps at labeling rivers?--Brear47 10:10, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

That's an interesting idea. I agree that rivers are important; however I'm not sure we want to add rivers as place pages. Seems better to add links to other websites like you're doing. By the way, have you looked at It seems to do a good job showing rivers.--Dallan 01:10, 17 April 2011 (EDT)

I'd just seen OSM for the first time and I agree. An example for a river pages utility relates to my 3g grandfather. His residences were all on connected waterways, Piqua, OH on the Greater Miami, ditto Hamilton, OH and then Abington IN up the Whitewater. If I only knew his wife's maiden name I could check for in towns or counties linked to those rivers. it turns out her family was living in Dearborn Co IN, the first county up the Whitewater, just before the marriage. Of course I don't know where on the river they met, or whose movement along it occasioned the connection (though possibly his, he was an ME circuit rider.) As it was I had better info, but true brick walls need special tools to knock them down!--Brear47 01:20, 18 April 2011 (EDT)!Brear47 00:52, 18 April 2011 (EDT)

Contained Places [1 July 2012]

What are the categories for Contained Places on the place pages? Are these the categories as used by typical topographic gazetteers? Also, is there a list of what constitutes a place "Type" when entering a new place page. It's a free form box, so people could put anything in there. — Parsa 15:13, 24 April 2011 (EDT)

They mostly came from the Getty Thesaurus of Geographic Place Names and Wikipedia. I'll create a list of the types that currently appear on place pages, and create a drop-down list with these types.--Dallan 19:03, 25 April 2011 (EDT)
A drop-down may be too limited. Sure in the U.S. we may use Town, Township, Village, County, etc but for the place pages in say the Netherlands we're using Dorp, Stad, Gemeente etc. There are many other countries that have yet to be cleaned up here for which the less-than-accurate English version is being used. --Jennifer (JBS66) 09:58, 26 April 2011 (EDT)

A list of some common or suggested "types" for the field in the help page for places (this Help topic), or in a Portal would be sufficient. Then if someone runs into an unusual situation, they still have the option of entering a unique type. My question arose from the fact that I see "inhabited place", "populated place", in addition to town, village, city, etc. for types. There have been some commonly agreed upon definitions for some populated places in the past. For example, a "village" was usually a place that had a church or chapel, but a "hamlet" only had some houses with no church. I'm sure that's why the U.S. gazetteers stuck with "populated place" to avoid the pitfalls of defining things too exactly. I would assume that geographers in other countries have defined place types for their maps and gazetteers as well. — Parsa 10:44, 26 April 2011 (EDT)

Here's a list of types that currently appear on 3 or more places:

Inhabited place	201512
Unknown	142988
City	16342
Town	15273
Village	9164
Township	4563
Census-designated place	4266
Freguesia	3799
Municipality	3734
County	3473
Deserted settlement	2942
City or town	2821
District	2739
Community	2484
Parish	1954
Commune	1944
Cemetery	1825
Province	1290
Borough	1253
Region	565
General region	511
Town or village	398
Townland	367
Dorp	347
Canton	327
Concelho	299
Raion	288
Voormalige gemeente	277
State	267
Inhabited Place	264
Department	232
Hundred	208
National district	196
Gemeente	162
Island	157
Independent City	141
Prefecture	137
Arrondissement	136
Rione	134
Governorate	134
Nation	133
Former county	128
Kreis	102
Département	98
City or Town	96
Buurtschap	87
Regional County Municipality	86
Inhabited place, parish	83
Country	83
Former Municipality	80
Suburb	78
Former County	72
Former province	68
Rayon	67
Historical County	66
Former District	62
Barangays	59
Rural Municipality	57
Historic Region	57
Historical region	56
Buurtschap 	55
Former Province	50
Urban area	49
prefecture	48
Parish, urban area	48
Parish (political)	47
Oblast	47
District Municipality	46
Comarca	46
Church	44
kerület (district)	43
Hamlet	40
Census division	40
town	38
inhabited place	36
Historical District	36
Former National district	36
Modern Voivodship	34
Traditional county	33
Circuit Court District	33
Administrative Region	33
township	31
Kanton	31
Historic county, Administrative county, Modern county	31
village	30
Historical Province	29
National division	28
Historical Province, Oblast	28
Regierungsbezirk	27
Former community	27
Zone	26
Third level subdivision	26
Gerichtsbezirk	25
Diocese	25
Dependent state	25
cemetery	24
Constituency	24
Commonwealth Voivodship	24
Unitary authority	22
Région	22
Republic	22
Former borough	22
Former State	22
Regional district	21
Inhabited place, Canton	21
Ortsteil (locality)	20
Former nation/state/empire	20
Ghost town	19
Territory	18
Historical District, District	17
Autonomous community	17
Place	16
Historical Town, Town	16
Subprefecture	15
Statutarstadt	15
Locality	15
Civil Parish	15
Stift	14
Principal area	14
County town	14
Marke	13
Hospital	13
Q.S. Parish	12
Provincie	12
Periphery 	12
Modern county	12
Modern State	12
County, Former county	12
City Municipality	12
Borough (Bezirk)	12
Autonomous region	12
Area	12
Administrative county	12
parish	11
hospital	11
church	11
Regency	11
Populated Place	11
Abandoned complex	11
city	10
Okres	10
Historical Kreis	10
Historical City, City	10
Historic county	10
Former Region	10
County municipality	10
Census area	10
Ancient Parish	10
Registration District	9
Partido	9
Grafschaft	9
Administrative region	9
Sahar	8
Presbytery	8
People's Republic Voivodship, Modern Voivodship	8
National District	8
Land District	8
Historical District, City	8
Former Regierungsbezirk	8
Dependency	8
County, Modern county	8
City Quarter	8
Castle	8
Autonomous district	8
nursing home	7
Village (former)	7
Union territory	7
State, Former province	7
Sestiere part of Venezia	7
Powiat	7
Modern province	7
Historic County	7
Former District/ Town	7
Federal District	7
Emirate	7
Disputed territory	7
Defunct city	7
Catholic mission	7
Bezirk	7
Amtsgericht	7
county	6
UnknownInhabited place	6
Town and Constituency	6
Religious Structure	6
Regional county municipality	6
Preserved county	6
Perfecture	6
Orthodox Church	6
Metropolitan county	6
Lieutenancy area	6
Landkreis (District)	6
Historical Province/Region	6
Historical Inhabited Place	6
Historical District/Town	6
Historic county, Principal area	6
General Region	6
Former parish, inhabited place	6
Former parish	6
Former administrative division	6
District, City or town	6
Ancient City	6
Township 	5
Special city	5
Seat	5
Principality	5
Populated place	5
Land	5
Island, parish	5
Independent city	5
Gehucht	5
District Council	5
City and Constituency	5
Autonomous Region	5
Administrative county, Modern county	5
Uyezd	4
Urban district (kreisfreie Stadt)	4
Urban district	4
Urban area, parish	4
Traditional Province	4
Rural District	4
Ruined Church	4
Registration district	4
Occupied territory	4
Mining Hamlet	4
Military base	4
Metropolitan area	4
Local council	4
Island group	4
Island Region	4
Inhabited region	4
Inhabited place, former parish	4
Historical District, Town	4
Historical District & City, District	4
Hameau	4
Former State, Modern State	4
F	4
External territory	4
Duchy	4
Congress Governorate, Modern Voivodship	4
City District	4
Canton Ouest	4
unknown	3
Village, Civil Parish	3
Uninhabited Hamlet	3
Unincorporated area	3
Town/District Seat	3
Town or Village	3
Territory/Fiefdom	3
Synod	3
Settlement	3
Second Republic Voivodship	3
School	3
Religious structure	3
Region/Province	3
Place of Worship	3
Peninsula	3
Parish, Municipality	3
Neighborhood	3
Municipal district	3
Mansion, former iron works	3
Kingdom	3
Islands	3
Inhabited place, former iron works	3
Inhabited Location	3
Indian Reserve	3
Historical Region, Region	3
Historical Region	3
Historical Province, Province	3
Historical Province, Krai	3
Historical District, City or town	3
Historical City	3
Historic county, Administrative county	3
Gemeente, Stad (City)	3
Former parish, urban area	3
Former District/ District	3
External Territory	3
Disputed Region	3
County, Province	3
Colony	3
City municipality	3
Cemeteries	3
Capital District	3
Capital	3
Bantustan	3
Autonomous republic	3
Amt (county)	3
 Gerichtsbezirk	3

There are some types in this list that are mistakes, which a drop-down list would avoid. But there are currently too many in this list to put into a drop-down list, so we'd need to remove a bunch. The drop-down list for event type currently has 60-70 items in it, which seems like a lot, so I think we'd want the drop-down list for places to have no more than 100. If we can trim this list down to 100 place types then I'll put it in. However, I imagine it will be difficult to reach a consensus on which 100 we should include. It may be just as well to leave it as a text field.--Dallan 10:31, 28 April 2011 (EDT)

I wouldn't recommend having only a drop down list. More countries will have specialized terms, some of which can already be seen here. Would there be a way of have a drop down list with an "other" category that would take the name from a filled text box? That way you might not even need 100 items, just the more common ones. — Parsa 17:16, 28 April 2011 (EDT)
A drop-down box with that many options is too cumbersome. Could we do an auto-complete text box where a user could begin typing in Town and it shows the options of Town, Township, etc. Then maybe there could be an 'other' option always visible where users could type in their own when one doesn't appear on the list. Could this list be editable by admins so that as place projects are undertaken, new options could be easily added to the field? --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:35, 28 April 2011 (EDT)
That's a good idea. Once we settle on a way to track enhancement requests: UserVoice or WeRelate:Suggestions, hopefully sometime early-mid next week, let's put that on there.--Dallan 17:55, 28 April 2011 (EDT)

Would it be possible to add a link to The list of place types at MediaWiki:Place types mentioned by Dallan 19:36, 27 June 2011 (EDT)?

The type of place, (e.g. "town"), can have a number of descriptive words in front of it and I cannot always be sure the descriptive one I want is in the list. The descriptive word may be hiding under a synonym ("historical" versus "former").

Thanks --goldenoldie 05:47, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

Sure - here it is: MediaWiki:Place types. It's not directly editable; add your suggestions to the talk page and I'll add them.--Dallan 09:59, 1 July 2012 (EDT)

Tagging duplicate places for removal [19 March 2012]

The instructions under Help:Place pages#Tagging duplicate places for removal are not valid, there is no longer a Category:Remove. We could direct them to speedy delete, but the purpose of remove was that they required specialized attention (merging). How do we want to handle pages that users feel are duplicates and who are not comfortable with merging themselves? --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:14, 25 April 2011 (EDT)

Good question. How about creating a page like WeRelate:Duplicate places or WeRelate talk:Duplicate places that admins can watch, and telling people to add the duplicate places to that page?--Dallan 19:03, 25 April 2011 (EDT)

Was this put into practice? --goldenoldie 03:42, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

I think it slipped through the cracks? I am redoing the help pages and will address this issue. The procedure is to manually copy any info from the the page with the wrong title unto the page with the properly named page. Then delete everything in the text box of the wrong-named page and redirect it to the right-named page by typing #redirect Place:Proper name on the first line of the text box on the wrong-named page. We are always looking for volunteers. Is there some area of WeRelate you would like help with. We people to help new users, oversee namespaces, etc. Thanks, --sq 11:14, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

Townships [3 May 2011]

I noted that the examples for place order now have "Township (township)" when the name is the same as a city or town in the county. Before I believe it had the example as "(Township)", that is capitalized, and I was following that example. The capitalization matters as "Independence (township)" is not the same place as "Independence (Township)." Is the lower case the accepted standard in a title? I've noted in searches that both are used, which could mean that duplicates will be created. I've also noticed that a lot of rural cemeteries are listed under the county, not under an existing township. In many instances I had to create the township place first in order to create the cemetery contained in it. By the way, a good place to find township and cemetery coordinates is on the Histopolis place pages. Just put in the place at the top. It even shows the borders of the township or cemetery if they've been entered.
Here's Honey Creek Township in Crawford County Illinois as an example. Cemeteries are listed down the page. Also, if you click on the right where it says "Area Cemeteries", it will show most of the ones appearing on topographic maps (though not all the obscure family cemeteries). You can then double click these to show the cemetery page and coordinates.— Parsa 18:38, 2 May 2011 (EDT)

The new standard is "Township (township)". When you create a new place using the Add menu, it should not capitalize township now. I know, in the past it has not been consistent. Could you please correct any help pages or examples that you see? Thank you. And thanks for the link as well. I probably won't get to add these programmatically for awhile (too many other things to do) but it would be helpful for others to know about. Maybe you could add it somewhere to this help page?--Dallan 12:50, 3 May 2011 (EDT)

If there are subordinate places, I can't rename the place page title to the lower case standard. Only an admin can. — Parsa 20:50, 3 May 2011 (EDT)

Sigh. That's true. It's intended to keep people from accidentally renaming states or countries, which can cause a lot of havoc, not to keep people from renaming townships. But the system doesn't distinguish between the two cases. From a quick glance it appears that there are roughly 200 townships whose titles are incorrect. I'll put renaming them on my todo list. If you notice that the help pages are incorrect, I'd appreciate your fixing the help pages. Thanks.--Dallan 21:51, 3 May 2011 (EDT)

Making exception to hospital rule for mental hospitals who have longtime residents [18 July 2011]

In researching my family history I discovered that I have a great grand aunt who is listed in the 1900, 1910, and 1920 census in Bryce Hospital in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. There is a page on Wikipedia for Bryce Hospital although it is not listed as a place or categorized as such. Just wondering if we should allow hospitals to have place pages that housed residents for many years. Bryce Hospital is a state hospital for citizens with mental problems. --Beth 21:17, 4 May 2011 (EDT)

I'm not sure how this would be much different from somebody who lived at a street address and appeared in consecutive censuses. This information can go into the description field. What would be gained by allowing place pages for only certain types of hospitals? --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:12, 5 May 2011 (EDT)
I tend to agree with Jennifer on this. Playing devil's advocate, if we open it up to mental hospitals, we also need to open it up to veterans homes, county poor farms, and even state schools for the deaf and blind (they were residential facilities where students lived for several years, just going home during the summer). The Description field would be a better place for that level of detail. -- Amy (Ajcrow) 06:29, 5 May 2011 (EDT)
Thanks for the viewpoints. I will use the description field.--Beth 07:57, 5 May 2011 (EDT)

This conversation seems to imply that hospitals as places are discouraged. Is this true? The reason I ask is that death locations are sometimes specifically indicated as being in Hosptial X. My interpretation of current consensus would be to indicate the place as the most specific administrative unit then provide the Hospital name in the description. Is this the current best practice? Thanks. --ceyockey 07:06, 18 July 2011 (EDT)

That is correct. Information such as hospitals, churches, or physical addresses should be placed in the description field. Place pages may be created for towns, counties and other municipalities, as well as cemeteries. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:25, 18 July 2011 (EDT)

Parish as a Place Name [7 February 2012]

I just ran across a place page for a London parish Place:St. Helen Bishopsgate, London, England. In this instance, a parish is a physical subdivision of a city, ecclesiastical instead of political. In the FAQ we are requested to not create place pages for churches and in an instance like this, it seems to me that this is like creating a separate place page for, as an example, the Fifth Ward of Albany. New York. I personally would prefer identifying the parish/church in the Description field but am looking for some admin guidance on this. Thanks.--jaques1724 14:08, 16 June 2011 (EDT)

I don't know much about England, but I know we list parishes in Scotland because they're political as well as ecclesiastical divisions - see WeRelate:Scotland - Organization of Places. In this case it seems appropriate to create a page for the parish and list "Parish" as the type, similar to what has been done for Scotland. Hopefully others with more knowledge will chime in here.--Dallan 17:46, 16 June 2011 (EDT)

In England as well as in Scotland, parishes are municipalities. I notice you now have "Parish political" as one of the Place Descriptions. In London many Registration Districts for Births, Marriages and Deaths, adopted in 1837, appear to be the name of a church. However, they are really "political parishes". "St George's, Hanover Square" is an example which comes to mind.

/cheers--goldenoldie 02:58, 7 February 2012 (EST) (who lives in a sub-parish of a political parish outside of London)

Places & their historic names [19 January 2012]

Have searched help for a discussion about historic place names and can't seem to find what I need. How are historic place names used. There are 1000s of these. I understand that the standard is to use place names as they appear in 1900, which is not always easy to ascertain (but that is a side issue).

Currently, I am working on a family that was in the area that would become Sharon, Mass. At the time of their lives, it was the 2nd District (1740) of Stoughton, Mass. and later Stoughtonham District (1765), next it is town of Stoughtonham (1775), and finally (?) Sharon, Mass (1783). This family is referred to being of Stoughton and Stoughtonham in published works. Family members appear in both Stoughton and Sharon Vital Records.

It is so common to read "in that part of __ which became __" or their were native place names that can be reasonable assigned to a specific geo-entity.

Are these historic names used? If so, how best to represent them here?--Kpb2011 07:47, 17 January 2012 (EST)

Representing historical places is always a challenge. You have three tools at your disposal at WeRelate:
  • First, when you enter a place on a person/family page, you can enter the title of the page page that you want to link to (e.g., Sharon), followed by a bar (|), followed by the text that you want displayed (e.g., Stoughtonham District). This lets people see "Stoughtonham" when they view the page, but go to Sharon when the click on the link.
  • Second, you can list "alternate names" for places on the Place wiki page. So if the town of Stoughtonham eventually became Sharon, covering roughly the same geographic area at different points in time, you could add Stoughtonham as an alternate name for Sharon. By making Stoughtonham an alternate name for Sharon, when people search for Stoughtonham, the search results would include people with events in Sharon. And when gedcom's include events in Stoughtonham, those events will be matched to Sharon.
  • Third, you can list alternate containing jurisdictions (also located in's) for a place on the place's wiki page. It doesn't sound like this would apply in your case, but this is to handle the case of a town belonging to different counties at different points in time. Searches also take the "also located in's" into account, so someone searching for County X will see results for people located in towns that used to belong to that county.
  • Finally, if a place really was a distinct place that no longer exists, feel free to add it as a new place. We certainly don't have a moratorium on adding new places. We still have a ways to go.
--Dallan 22:39, 19 January 2012 (EST)

Appleton le Street, North Riding of Yorkshire [7 February 2012]

There is a typo in "Yorkshire" in the description under "Hanna Or Mary Peterkin" which I can't seem to get rid of. When I go to the edit screen the spelling is correct.

I would also like to adjust her name to Hanna Peterkin and explain where Mary is found in Notes. Once again, I can't see how to make the correction.

Thanks--goldenoldie 02:48, 7 February 2012 (EST)

To edit Hanna's name and add notes, you would go to her Person:Hanna Peterkin (1) page and click the Edit link. Regarding the Yorkhshire typo, that is appearing on Hanna's Person page, but it is a Marriage event so it must be changed on the Family:Henry Lyle and Hanna Peterkin (1) page. I hope this helps. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:11, 7 February 2012 (EST)


HOW DO I RENAME A PLACE PAGE TITLE ?? Somehow a village ended up in a different village , then county, country.

Click on "Rename" on the left-hand side of the screen. If you don't see a "Rename" link, then leave a message here with the name of the place to rename and the title that it should be renamed to, and an admin will do it for you. (Places with contained places can be renamed only by admins. This is to prevent accidental renaming of places ike countries and states.)--Dallan 15:49, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

"Village and Civil Parish" [13 August 2013]

I've recently run into a lot of these (at least according to their wikipedia pages) while working on families which originated in co. Suffolk. Would it be possible to get that description added to the "Type" dropdown on the Place Page edits?--jaques1724 16:11, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

I'm not sure I understand your request. If the village has been mistakenly put into another village, what would you like in the dropdown?--sq 21:16, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

In the dropdown, "Village" is a choice; "Civil Parish" is a choice; "Village and Civil Parish" is not. There are a number of English places, at least in Suffolk, for which the wikipedia page calls it a "village and civil parish" - see the wikipedia page for Little Whelnetham as an example. It appears that these places were historically villages, but in some parts of England, since 1894, are now, civil parishes, the lowest tier of local government below districts and counties.--jaques1724 22:10, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

Hi, the type field can multiple types. So enter village, followed by a comma, followed by civil parish. Hope this helps. --sq 23:10, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

Got it - Thanks.--jaques1724 00:06, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

--- I hope someone will see this addendum to an 17-month-old query.

When we use "village, civil parish" to describe a community, the county page lists the place under the two headings "inhabited place" and "civil parish". This makes an extremely long county page, and more often than not brings up the WARNING: "This page is 36 kilobytes long; some browsers may have problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please consider breaking the page into smaller sections."

(BTW, not all villages are civil parishes, and some civil parishes are combinations of two or more villages.)

The only way I can see to reduce the length of the page is to introduce the types "village and civil parish" and "town and civil parish". Or is the length of county pages really not an issue?

Any other suggestions? --Goldenoldie 14:49, 13 August 2013 (EDT)

Incomplete import from wikipedia [5 March 2013]

The first part of the wikipedia article on Place:Hatfield Broad Oak, Essex, England was imported into the werelate page via the normal procedure 13 Jan 2013. However, part of the first sentence of the second paragraph was omitted. Any ideas as to how this happened?--jaques1724 15:21, 13 January 2013 (EST)

The text that was not imported is contained in a template on WP that is not recognized on WR ({{convert|8800|acre|km2}}). This is one of the "Known Issues" with WP imports. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:35, 13 January 2013 (EST)

Can I make a suggestion on sorting out Wikipedia's "convert" template?

A great many of these omissions are simple conversions from miles to kilometres and make for most peculiar sentences when the distance or area has been omitted in the transition to WeRelate. If the quote from WP is only a couple of sentences, it would be easiest to rewrite the description in our own words including the omitted section, adding the {{moreinfo wikipedia}} template to the end of our contribution (hopefully, WP will have enough to say to justify the use of the template!).

In the case of longer articles, there is nothing wrong with any of us joining Wikipedia and making these small adjustments there. Example: replace "5 miles (8km)" with "5 miles or 8km". It is the parentheses which flags the known issue problem in WR. --goldenoldie 10:15, 5 March 2013 (EST)

When considering a single page, the idea of just rewording seems like a great idea. But the point of us linking to WP articles is to take advantage of other open-source scholarship without the need for us to have a specific volunteer here who's interested in the material. We can also rely that WP will have volunteers for such pages indefinitely in the future, while we can not. Finally - we source a total of over 96,000 pages from WP - over 75,000 places and over 20,000 people - we can't reproduce that contribution and it probably wouldn't make sense to do so even if we could.
Your second idea - contributing directly on WP - is a much better one. Better to keep the source of the scholarship together in one place, benefit from whatever community exists over there, and just drag enough of an extract over here so that it's clear that WP has a good page on the subject. However, I wouldn't be surprised if templates of the sort giving us a headache here, are WP preferred conventions, that allow them to find, track, and correctly present objective facts across different language versions of the page - and for other purposes.
So maybe your first idea is the best - as a stop gap at least - we just look at the links to a "convert" template, and toss in fixes for that very short list (until we get a translation or local implementation of convert):
   Place:Danville, Contra Costa, California, United States
   Place:Rowland Heights, Los Angeles, California, United States
   Place:Lincoln, Oregon, United States
   Place:Hedley, British Columbia, Canada
   Place:Thornby, Northamptonshire, England
   Template:Wp-Danville, California
   Template:Wp-Danville, California-History
   Template:Wp-Rowland Heights, California-History
   Template:Wp-Lincoln County, Oregon-History
   Template:Wp-Hedley, British Columbia
   Template:Wp-Thornby, Northamptonshire
   Place:Mark Twain Lake, Missouri, United States
--jrm03063 10:33, 5 March 2013 (EST)

FAQ re-arrangement [5 March 2013]

Could we re-order the FAQ questions so that the three questions about quoting from Wikipedia come together? That's 1.7, 1.12 and 1.12.1. It would be helpful if the directions for using the {{moreinfo wikipedia}} template were close by as well. Speaking personally, the FAQ is useful to print out and keep beside the computer and these precise directions are the ones I use most. --goldenoldie 10:27, 5 March 2013 (EST)

Churches as places [29 September 2015]

A few days ago, Jennifer (JBS66) advised me that I should not add churches as a place. I find that a little weird, because some of my ancesors were buried inside churches, and the practice continues for some local royals too. In those cases, churches are like cemeteries, which can be added as a place. Many of these churches have a page on wikipedia too, which sort of categorizes them as 'relevant'.

Another reason for adding churches as places or special objects could be that many churches are recognized as authors of a lot of source documents in the LDS catalog. --Enno 20:59, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Has there been any further discussion about adding Church as a Location category? What is the correct usage of a Church as the location of a marriage, for instance?--RWMeyer 00:22, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

There has been no consensus to change the rule, which is to use a place page to represent the location of the church, and then name the church in the "Description" field. --pkeegstra 10:30, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Over time we have discussed this on WR, and there have always been opposing views. I do a lot of updating of Place pages, particularly in England, and I would avoid using a church as a place in all but the largest towns and cities. Why? The number of places in England we have in our database is vast and the purpose of having a database is so that one person's submissions can be compared to those of another person. To add churches would increase the size of the database and make it more difficult to identify a family who spent part of their lives at least living near to another family (even if in a different century). After all, the name of the website is WeRelate.

Adjacent to every "place box" there is a "description box". It is a lot more expandible than it looks on an "edit page". If the town or village is small enough to have only one or two churches, the best place to note the name of a church for a baptism, a marriage or a burial is the description box.

However, larger towns and cities were made up of several ecclesiastical parishes, each of which has kept its own parish records for centuries. Large ecclesiastical parishes were often civil parishes as well until the end of the 19th century. For these many sources name the parishes starting with the name of the town: e.g. Bristol All Saints, Gloucester Holy Trinity, Worcester St. Clement. In this way the town is quickly identified and I have been trying to adopt this into WeRelate. It allows the name of the specific church to be found in the county list, usually under the type Parish (ancient). Slightly off-topic, at the moment, type "Ancient parish" exists in our database as well as Parish (ancient)--we must get that fixed.

Large town parishes have been very difficult to research from a geographical point of view. Over time there are lots of mergers of parishes which historians may or may not mention in their writings and the name of the newly-organized parish may not include both parishes from which it was formed. Discovering where a church was actually located can also be difficult if it no longer exists as a building or if the researcher does not know the layout of the town involved.

Just one person's thoughts on the matter. --Goldenoldie 11:00, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Adding a historic country? [5 February 2014]

How do I add "Austria-Hungary" as a historic country? The wikipedia article is:

Many immigration records for the empire do not offer differentiation to a recognizable modern sub-country. Attributing incorrectly because the existing list forces a choice between Austria, Hungary, Czech Republic, etc., can also lead to major research redirection. I just spent 10 years assuming I was dealing with Slovakia when the real trail was across the border in the Czech Republic. There is also an awesome online gazetteer which would enable getting 19th c representative placenames up so that researchers know the full list of possibilities for the time (in the case where I went astray, it turns out there were 10 possible settlements with fundamentally the same name spread throughout the empire).--Artefacts 19:09, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Extra place page-types [17 May 2014]

Could we add to choices of types of place for use in the UK, please:

  • borough (municipal)
  • borough (county)
  • borough (metropolitan)
  • parish (ancient)

and, for Scottish places

  • burgh

There is a difference between the three types of borough. The first two are used officially between 1889 and 1974. A municipal borough was usually smaller and the local government was still under the county. A county borough had a minimum size (50,000 population) and was independent of the county (like an incorporated town or city in North America). Metropolitan boroughs were created in 1974 when some new counties were devised that were almost completely urban in character and had to be divided into separate sections (Greater Manchester has 10 metropolitan boroughs; Merseyside and West Yorkshire have 5 each, etc).

"Parish" is in the current list, but I am never comfortable about using it without better definition. Ancient parishes were formal divisions of "hundreds". They are the geographical divisions that go with parish register entries for births, marriages and deaths. Civil parishes (or political parishes) were brought in in 1866 and were designed for property tax collection, etc.

All these terms have a precise meaning here and may help to indicate where to search for further information about ancestors who lived in the UK in some era or other. Village, town and city are much more subjective. The terms are quite well defined in Wikipedia--something I never would have known before joining WeRelate! --Goldenoldie 13:37, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Done MediaWiki:Place types--Dallan 04:19, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Someday I'll get around to writing something in the place portal or in the England Research page (is that what it's called?) about this. I was very surprised how well WP went into these definitions.

--Goldenoldie 06:38, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

I put a place name with a typo - i only want to edit the spelling of the town [8 March 2015]

--Ohleslie 06:15, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

All corrections of titles are done by using "Rename" whether they are large or small. I quite often have to take out a hyphen that was used in building databases in the early days of the internet, but which would not be used by natives of the community today. Regards, --Goldenoldie 08:00, 8 March 2015 (UTC)