User talk:Jocelyn K B



Welcome to WeRelate, your virtual genealogical community. We're glad you have joined us. At WeRelate you can easily create ancestor web pages, connect with cousins and other genealogists, and find new information. To get started:

If you need any help, we will be glad to answer your questions. Just go to the Support page, click on the Add Topic link, type your message, then click the Save Page button. Thanks for participating and see you around! --Support 11:06, 17 September 2011 (EDT)

Census source pages [19 November 2011]

Hello Jocelyn K B, I am a volunteer admin here at WeRelate. I noticed that you have been adding source pages for U.S. census records, thank you for that! It would be helpful if you could also add our standard template and category to each page, along with a few additional items of information.

  1. In the year range fields, add the year of the census to both boxes
  2. In the subject field, check the census item
  3. Add the following code to the large text box on the source page, substituting the year for the YYYY and the state for the SSSS.
== Usage Tips ==
[[Category:YYYY SSSS census]]

Here is a source page that has been filled in for you to follow: Source:New York, New York, United States. 1920 U.S. Census Population Schedule. If you have any questions at all, just let me know. Thank you, --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:06, 19 November 2011 (EST)

Will do, thanks for telling me how to do it--Jocelyn_K_B 17:02, 19 November 2011 (EST)

Template for Findagrave:


Change cemetery number, name.

Lee O. Carbaugh Family [13 February 2012]

Hi Jocelyn - I'm looking for information on Justin L Carbaugh. Through your help I was able to find my cousin - Sandra Range. If you have any information on the Lee O. Carbaugh family I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks lululanna--Luluanna 09:27, 13 February 2012 (EST)

Location of church information [14 February 2012]

Hi Jocelyn, I noticed that you have been creating article pages for churches in England. The best place for this information would be the Place page where the churches are located. For example, you could add a separate heading on the Place page for Churches and include your links in a table. The information would be easier to locate for someone researching the area this way. --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:37, 14 February 2012 (EST)

I think you've got a good idea there, I'll give it a go but I'm not an html expert so hopefully I can get everything working ok.--Jocelyn_K_B 14:46, 14 February 2012 (EST)

Here is a sample wikitable where the columns are sortable. You can leave off the word sortable if you don't need the table to sort. If you need any help at all just let me know!

Heading1 Heading2 Heading3 Heading4
text1 text2 text3 text4
text5 text6 text7 text8
text9 text10 text11 text12
text13 text14 text15 text16

Rather than putting the tables on the category pages, you'll want to put them on the Place page (ie Place:Poplar, London, England). Category pages are reserved to only display the category structure. --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:17, 14 February 2012 (EST)

thanks again for that, I've now moved the table to the place page as I hadn't noticed I was on the category page--Jocelyn_K_B 15:22, 14 February 2012 (EST)

Rupert family [28 February 2012]

Hi Jocelyn - just wanted to let you know that because of all the research you have done and posted - I was able to locate a family member I didn't even knew existed. This is going to help me find out my biological father and his family. My cousin and I have already talked several times and we are planning to meet in the very near future. Thank you so much luluanna--Luluanna 08:24, 24 February 2012 (EST)

That's fantastic! I'm so pleased to hear it, and I wish you all the best for meeting and finding new family members :)--Jocelyn_K_B 05:03, 28 February 2012 (EST)

WeRelate Featured Page [1 April 2012]

HI Jocelyn, just wanted to let you know that your Article Page Anglican Parishes in London has been nominated and selected as this week's WeRelate Featured Page and can be seen on the main entry page for WeRelate. I'm sure other researchers will find this page useful in their research. Congratulations and keep up the good work!

Best regards,


--Delijim 17:07, 28 March 2012 (EDT)

Hi Jim, thanks very much for this, it's been great getting suggestions from other users on how the page can be more useful! I love how WeRelate helps people collaborate on research and resources :)--Jocelyn_K_B 02:27, 1 April 2012 (EDT)

BOTELER Norman Walter 1893 1941 [29 May 2012]

G'day You are listed as a watcher to this page. Do you have a family connection to Norman Boteler who lived at 112 Leyes Road Custom House London and who married Ellen Murphy in 1918. Cheers Michael--Woden5 05:15, 29 May 2012 (EDT)

Harry Ripley.ged [28 August 2012]

Hi Jocelyn, I was about to import your Harry Ripley gedcom file, but I noticed you have matched one family but did not continue to Update the information. This means that data in your gedcom for this family will not be uploaded or added to the existing WR pages. I sent the file back to user review for you to take a look at. Go to the Family Matches tab, and check the boxes next to each item that you would like to import (they are unchecked by default). Then, go to the bottom of the page and press the Update button. When you are done, you can go to the Import tab and press Ready to Import. If you have any questions, just let me know. --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:33, 27 August 2012 (EDT)

Thanks very much for picking up on this Jennifer, I've updated the info now.--Jocelyn_K_B 21:52, 27 August 2012 (EDT)

Dickson family [11 September 2012]

Hi Jocelyn

I was fascinated to find your entry on WeRelate when doing a Google search on Elizabeth Ann Dickson, mother of my Grandmother (Clara Wootten). Your data matched what I had found.

I have added some people to the tree, ending with my father Wilfrid Maurice Groombridge.


John, Lower Hutt, NZ--Johngx 19:35, 6 September 2012 (EDT)

Hi John, thanks for your message. Isn't it great when we find matches! It seems you are a "4th cousin once removed" to my husband, he was born in England but we live in Auckland. I know Edward, one of the brothers of your great-grandmother Elizabeth Ann Dickson, went to Australia and you have some 3rd cousins living near Adelaide. It's a small world for British migrant descendants!--Jocelyn_K_B 22:48, 10 September 2012 (EDT)

Charles Wootten [23 November 2012]

Hi Jocelyn

Looking at your References for Charles Wootten born abt 1845, you mention his father was Charles Wootten, a marine store dealer. I have been looking for leads on the father, would you have any more clues?

I note your reference 5 under Charles Wootten (2) states "George Henry Clapp m. Elizabeth Ann Wootton, which should be Wootten. 18:49, 23 November 2012 (EST)

mary hodge [7 August 2013]

Hi Jocelyn

This is most scary!!!!! I was looking for photographs of Sabbarton street poplar London when my great grandmother's name appeared! As you may have guessed from my name i'm a member of the Swan family and have researched them back to 1788 in Plymouth and researched there as well I've found the family in Chatham Kent in the mid 1700s and they're all shipwrights or similar. It would be great to hear from you and compare research. I have pictures of various addresses that they lived at and even lived in one of them myself! My dad was born in Sabbarton Street in 1919. Hope to hear from you. JOhn Swan--John swan 11:40, 3 August 2013 (EDT)

Hi John, didn't mean to spook you! thanks for getting in touch. I'd be happy to receive any information you have on the Swan family - I've loaded everything I have so far on the Swans into WeRelate, starting with James Stephen Swan. Feel free to add/change anything if I've left anything out or made errors. As I get more info I'll add it to WeRelate, so if you "Watch" any pages of people or families you're interested in it'll send you an email if I add any more information. As you'll see on James Swan's page, I haven't confirmed his origins yet, and there are at least two possibilities in Chatham. I suspect he was the son of Thomas & Susanna as his children were given similar names to this family but without further evidence I'm not sure. Any information you can share on this would be much appreciated - you say you've found info on the family being in Plymouth? If you prefer to correspond privately you're welcome to email me Jocelyn_K_B AT All the best, Jocelyn--Jocelyn_K_B 05:41, 7 August 2013 (EDT)

Mary Agnes Roberts [12 December 2013]

Hi Jocelyn

I am researching my daughter in laws family and I see you have an interest in Mary Agnes Roberts, she is related to Mary interested in sharing family information thanks Robyn--Rdbobbin 04:58, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Feel free to name names. [24 February 2014]

"I would be very disappointed if a small number of disproportionately loud negaters stopped the process early. There's been much assumption of what policy changes might be "forced" on us but some of the negativity is hard to take seriously - e.g. as others have said clearly the idea of WeRelate having to conform to WP's notability policy wouldn't even be suggested because it's so incompatible, so there's no point bringing it up repeatedly." As basically the lone 'negater' I don't know who else this could be referring to. We were given no clear answers, and no promises were made. Just that it would be worked out; all very vague.--Daniel Maxwell 10:22, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

redundant sources [14 March 2014]

Your recent changes to Person:Mindwell Stone (4), Person:Isaac Stone (6), Person:Samuel Stone (30), Person:Esther Stone (9) all appear to have only added references to indexing recrods that essentially duplicated sources that were already cited on the page, namely, Source:Rutland, Worcester, Massachusetts, United States. Vital Records to the End of the Year 1849, and hence were redundant and unnecessary. It may be useful in the odd case where the familysearch indexing happens to give different information, as this might open up a valuable discussion on which was right. But there is no value when it gives the same information that was already cited, and should any discrepancy be apparent, the error would be more likely to lie with the familysearch version, being the result of work by volunteers of no necessary qualification and marginal training, as opposed to the more careful approach used by the published vital records. Further, the published vital records are just as easily available on line, namely here and here and probably others. There are certainly many places where familysearch provides invaluable free access to records not easily available, but Rutland VRs is probably not one of those. Thank you. --Jrich 03:50, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

If you'd followed the links I posted you would see that they lead to the image of the original historical record, not an index or later transcription of the record, so indexing doesn't come into it and there would be no error brought about by familysearch volunteers etc. I just thought it might be useful to link to the original record rather than a transcript. Adding the link to the Source:Rutland, Worcester, Massachusetts, United States. Vital Records to the End of the Year 1849 didn't seem appropriate since that source is a secondary book transcript source. Perhaps I should have deleted the link to the book and replaced it with the image link but I didn't think it would matter--Jocelyn_K_B 04:12, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Mea culpa. I did not follow the link.
Agree this is qualitatively better, especially in this case since the book appears to be the original record. (Many films, like Buxton Maine, for example, and others I have worked with, the original is so old a copy was commissioned around 1850 and became the working copy, and it was the copy that was filmed. And where both are available there are differences as the copier updated spelling according to his own ideas, etc.) Anyway, various considerations come to mind, perhaps others are worth discussing too.
Noting from image 1 that this is film 859332, if you link to the image, I think it should be cited as Source:Rutland, Worcester, Massachusetts, United States. Vital Records, 1719-1874 and could replace the citation of the published VRs.
I also note the published VRs are, I believe, still primary (assuming the book itself is). They are not original, rather derivative, but considered primary since the information was recorded at or near the time of the event. The filmed book is a copy of an original so better than derivative, but both are primary. I actually think people might quibble that each record needs to be considered separately as to its primariness, but everyday practicality says (to me, anyway) don't go there unless there appears to be reason to (i.e., evidence that the event was recorded wrong).
And I would further suggest that it would be useful to provide the transcribed text on the page, in case, it gets misread, others can discuss and correct the interpretation of the colonial writing it until it becomes a highly reliable transcription. Interpretation of colonial writing is an art in itself.
Those are just my thoughts. It is pretty nice that familysearch is making so much of their data available online. It will really help the quality of genealogy that people can actually see the ultimate sources of accepted knowledge so easily and not just have to take somebody's word for it. --Jrich 15:12, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

"I think it should be cited as Source:Rutland, Worcester, Massachusetts, United States. Vital Records, 1719-1874 and could replace the citation of the published VRs", fair enough, I'll change those pages ASAP and also start adding the transcriptions. I see your point about whether the record is "primary" - I noticed my genealogy program (Legacy) allows you to analyse source quality to the degree of whether it's primary or secondary but also original/derivative/authored (and direct vs. indirect vs. negative evidence). I suppose that's a little more complicated than WeRelate needs to get at this point, as it's only really necessary when sources disagree and the "best" source needs to be determined.

I agree it's great to be able to see original records online. FamilySearch also have images of MA land records available to browse which I think will help me flesh out the lives of my ancestors a little more than just vital stat dates. I hope that someday every source citation in WeRelate (or whatever it might become in the future) links to an image of the original source available for free online.--Jocelyn_K_B 21:18, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

deed [24 March 2014]

I saw you added the full text of the same deed to three pages. Some people have dozens of deeds, and as a general thought, I suspect, such a practice of including all the deeds they participate in, would make pages long, boring, and hard to digest. As deeds really have such a small content of genealogical information, I think it would be better to put a simple abstract on the page with enough information to allow a person to look up the full deed themselves. If you need to preserve the text of the full deed, I would suggest creating an article or Transcript:, and provide a link to it on the three pages. At a minimum, which is still really too much real estate given to a very minor piece of information given that the relationship between them is proven by other sources, at least embolden the names and dates. --Jrich 14:28, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

I've moved the full transcription to its own transcription page as recommended as I see your point about making the person page too long. I'm interested in more than just proving the bare relationships between people and vital statistics, and I think we can glean some useful information from deeds that rounds out our knowledge about a person's life. The collective group of deeds can tell us things that a single deed can't, although this can take some analysis (which I haven't done yet for the people in question). The amount of land they owned can tell us how wealthy they might have been, changes of ownership of land can hint that there was a change in the family's circumstances, and a description of the land in question could lead future collaborators with maps to determine exactly where there land was, which I think is pretty interesting for a descendant who could visit the area. The deed I've transcribed is between parents and their son "in consideration of the love and affection that they have" (which is good "colour") and explains why there was no will or administration taken out on the estate, so I think many genealogists wouldn't mind it being referenced as a source.--Jocelyn_K_B 11:02, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Hannah (Stone) Dexter [24 March 2014]

Hi Jocelyn,

Through my research, Bartlett's Stone Genealogy has the wrong date of death for Hannah. Her will was dated 11 Jun 1832 but she died 03 Jun 1840. Her stone is in the Jones Cemetery in N. Orange, MA. This Dexter clan are all in the same plot: Hannah, son Benjamin w/ 3 of his wives. Benjamin's sons: Amasa, Elihu & others. This family is the line I was approved by the Daughters of the American Revolution. I have done all the documentation on this family line if you wish to have it. Happy Researching!--SandyS 20:18, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the information Sandy, I've removed the incorrect alt. death date that I added, since your headstone pic clearly shows the correct date. Hannah Stone's father Simeon was my 6th great-grandfather and I'm just starting to piece information together about the Stone family. I'll be adding information from Bartlett as a guide and then try to find his original sources, so I imagine I'll come across a few errors along the way, and I'm always happy to be corrected with better sources--Jocelyn_K_B 21:10, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

transcript [24 March 2014]

There is no need to create Transcript:Bartlett, J. Gardner. Gregory Stone Genealogy/p.109. This book is freely viewable on as id=ZxsVAAAAYAAJ.

  • You can link to their scanned page with
  • To get to a specific page such as 109, add &pg=PA109, as in this (usually, though some books have tricky numbering, in those cases use the link symbol near the top while viewing the desired page to get a link).
  • If you want to draw their attention to a specific phrase, such as Abial Bigelow, add &dq=%22Abial+Bigelow%22 (the %22 is a double quote, the plus gets turned into a space, you can also use %20 for the space if you want), giving this.
  • If you are having a hard time matching the text, use the scissors (cutting text) icon, highlight the text, and it will bring back what its OCR engine sees. Use that, it should highlight the right area then, i.e., to highlight Nathaniel3Stone, try this.

Beats typing it all in by hand and probably more useful in the case they want to see more or do further research. --Jrich 00:02, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

All the links you've put in get me to a page that just has a cover of the title and says "No eBook available", clicking on the picture of the book does nothing, do I have to have a subscription or something? or could it be geoblocked? I know it's freely available online elsewhere (think I downloaded my PDF from but not in an easily linkable way. One of the reasons I thought transcribing would be useful would be the ability to hyperlink the names of people who appear on each page, e.g. making it easier to find the Micah Stone who became the guardian of Simeon and his brothers. Micah's page in Bartlett makes no mention of him becoming guardian to 3 teenage boys but I think that's fairly interesting information about him.
I was following the example of the Savage transcript but I suppose since each page of Bartlett has less variety of people and families on it I could just put the transcription on the people pages. My only concern with that is that some of the biographies cover several pages (since they themselves include transcriptions of wills etc), and since you've already admonished me for taking up too much "real estate" on people pages with transcriptions I didn't think you'd object to me making transcription pages instead. In any case the PDF I have lets me copy and paste the text pretty quickly, I just have to tidy up the formatting.--Jocelyn_K_B 00:56, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

All the links work fine for me. Don't know if you have some google preferences set differently? Oddly, I don't find Gregory Stone in, though you can easily link to individual pages of that website too, so if you have a link there, so again, there is no need to do a redundant transcript. Give me a choice: a scanned image or a transcript, I'll choose the scanned image every time. The Savage transcript was different than the plain book images available on in that they incorporated the corrections Savage published at the end of each volume (though not the ones published in other publications) and even there, I have found the transcript has transcription errors, so I always compare it to the image on --Jrich 02:49, 25 March 2014 (UTC)