User:Neal Gardner/User talk: Archive 2009-16

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Solomon Gunn [30 April 2012]

The picture of Solomon Gunn is in a group of loose photos I inherited from my aunt Viola. It has a note on the back from aunt Glenora saying that this is "Uncle Solomon Gunn, my Daddy's Uncle". The daddy of both Viola and Glenora was Irwin Simpson Gunn, my paternal grandfather and one of the two sons of Christopher Conrad Gunn, a brother of Solmon. It is a professional quality photo taken by F P Ford, apparently a photographer in Kalamazoo, Michigan sometime in the early 20th century.--Gunnj 15:12, 30 April 2012 (EDT)


Thanks ! Since Solomon died in 1897 with a head of white hair (from the photo I have), this looks as if it was taken 1870s or 1880s when he was somewhere around age 50. Thanks again. --Neal Gardner 15:33, 30 April 2012 (EDT)

Neal, I see that you have changed or added information about Tressa McKinley and I am wondering how you are related. I descend from Tressa's aunt, Jincy Alexander Adkins.

Jerri--Aileron 08:19, 11 May 2012 (EDT)

Hi Jerri,

As a contribution to werelate, when I see slight errors in place names or how a page looks, I usually go ahead and correct them. As a former genealogical librarian, it's kind of an automatic thing with me. I was searching for relatives of President William McKinley and noticed a few minor errors. Regards.--Neal Gardner 19:07, 15 May 2012 (EDT)

Gardner [14 May 2012]

Yes, I am Margaret Rhey Brinton. Phoebe Gardner Simmons was my maternal grandmother. My mother, Mary Gardner Simmons Rhey was born in 1922 and died in 1994.--Margaret1410 19:20, 14 May 2012 (EDT)


Gardner [15 May 2012]

That is interesting that my grandmother, Phoebe Gardner Simmons, is the half sister of your grandfather? If you can steer me in any direction to learn more, or if you have it and are willing to share it with me, I would certainly appreciate it! I have not been able to trace ANY line on Phoebe's husband, George Dale (we called him "Daddy Dale")Simmons, whom married Evelyn Weber in 1947. "Grandma Evie" lived to be 93 and died in 2000. Phoebe died of uterine cancer. I thought my mother said she was only 38, but that math doesn't work. Do you have a copy (or know of where I could view one online) of her birth or death certificate? My mother did tell me she was of Christian Science faith and felt she may have been helped with some medical attention. Today is the 18th anniversary of the death of my mother, Mary Gardner (her middle name)Simmons Rhey. Thanks for the info! Margaret Rhey Brinton margb1410@comcast.net--Margaret1410 14:35, 15 May 2012 (EDT)

Hi Margaret !

To be exact, Edwin Monroe Gardner is the older half-brother of Charles Clement Gardner, my great grandfather...our common ancestor is Monroe Madison GARDNER by two wives, Anne Eliza (or Eliza Ann) SEAMAN and me by Martha TANNER. I've been doing a lot of research trying to find Monroe's parents, not successfully yet. There are a lot of family stories to sift through from my branch. I won't go into all right now (takes a lot of space), but if you don't mind, I'll contact you by email.. Mine is gardnerneal@live.com

Also, I have two Gardner "cousins" with whom I correspond. Sandy (Storrs) Carawan is descended from my great grandfather's sister, Minnie Winifred (Gardner) Storrs. She lives in North Carolina and teaches photography.

The other "cuz" is descended from Tressa Delight (Gardner) Campbell (1891-1951), the younger sister of your Phoebe Ann (Gardner)Simmons. Her name: Cheryl(Campbell)Hoppe in Colorado.Her email.. kamhoppe@gmail.com I'm sure she would be delighted to hear from you and may have more details than I've placed on Werelate. She's a busy lady, but a sweetheart..you can mention my name. I'll be emailing within a few days with suggestions, my descent, family stories and the research I've done so far. Regards..just Cuz --Neal Gardner 19:00, 15 May 2012 (EDT)

Place pipes, FWIW [3 July 2012]

I see you edited some place pipes on Clarence Beagle the other day. FWIW, I got some flak last week (as you can see) for removing some place pipes, so you may wish to keep that in mind when you are doing so. (There certainly do exist place pipes which are negatively helpful, and my opinion is that such pipes should definitely be removed.) --Pkeegstra 20:50, 16 June 2012 (EDT)


Thanks for the heads up. As a former genealogical librarian, I'm a little headstrong about concise ways of noting place names (perhaps I should be a little more selective), but I just can't help wanting a page to look "neat" and "readable'. Also, you can't seem to please everyone who contributes here. Oh, well.--Neal Gardner 16:26, 3 July 2012 (EDT)

Will of John Allen of Kempston [27 September 2012]

Hi Neal,

About a year and half age you added the will of John Allen/Alling of Kempton, Bedfordshire England to this page:

http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:John_Allen_%28236%29

I was wondering what source this was found from? The original source on John Allen/Alling in TAG:27:7 speaks as though a probate search wasnt done yet, but I was unable to find newer research. I could only find this will on the internet with no indication of its origin.--Daniel Maxwell 19:07, 26 September 2012 (EDT)

Let me check some notes. Could have sworn that I placed a web location there. On vacation for about a week, so give me 7 or 10 days.--Neal Gardner 15:58, 27 September 2012 (EDT)

Defining the Western Reserve [29 November 2012]

I saw that you specifically mention the Western Reserve on your user page. I would like to do some cleanup for the Colony of Connecticut that would entail defining a place page for that, and was looking for someone to sanity-check my approach. My approach depends on asserting that the only undisputed claims of the Colony of Connecticut outside the boundaries of the present State were those to the Western Reserve. So I would redirect Connecticut (colony), Kingdom of England to Connecticut, United States. And I would add a place page Connecticut Western Reserve, Ohio, United States "also located in" Connecticut, United States. I might also define the Virginia Military Reserve the same way. Maybe also the Toledo Strip. Does this make sense? --Pkeegstra 14:31, 29 November 2012 (EST)

Your approach sounds sensible. If you have trouble filling in any details, let me know. I'm staying in Warren, Ohio for at least the next 4 months. Warren was the first "seat" of the Western Reserve and the library assets here are above average. FYI, The Firelands, although part of The Western Reserve have a little different history. The Firelands are at the western end of The Connecticut Western Reserve, roughly present day Erie & Huron Counties. There is a small paper-back book published by the Ohio Genealogical Society that defines & describes all the reserves (military and territorial) and the varied platt methods.--Neal Gardner 14:45, 29 November 2012 (EST)

OK. Thanks! There was one point for which I would be interested in confirmation. Is it true that there are some present Ohio counties which span the boundary of the Western Reserve? So one cannot specify the Western Reserve in terms of modern counties? (BTW, I grew up in Cleveland, so I do have some direct familiarity with the area.) --Pkeegstra 16:10, 29 November 2012 (EST)

There are several, but I'll have to consult a map I have at home and give you a list tomorrow. I'd run to the Genealogy Department upstairs, but they've closed for today (4PM). I'm fairly sure you can find one online with the overlaps or wait until tomorrow afternoon. Correction, I have a dental appt. tomorrow. Sat. afternoon I can get back to you. I attended Chagrin Falls High School, Kent State and have lived in Shaker Hghts, Westlake and the Ohio City area of Cleveland. Small world as you may know.--Neal Gardner 16:32, 29 November 2012 (EST)

Philo Blackman, 1812 - 1873 [13 January 2013]

Hello, Neal. Just last night I found a biography for George Carrothers in, "A Centennial Biographical History of Hancock County, Ohio. The bio also gives family history for George's wife, Lucinca Matilda Blackman, d/o Philo Blackman & Clarinda Rogers.

I see that you are watching pages of Lucina's Blackman forbearers. Do you have any idea who Lucina's grandfather is? The Blackman lineage, per the bio is: 1. Adam Blakeman, 1598, b. in England; in North American by 1639; died in Stratford CT 1665 2. John Blakeman/Blackman 3. Ebenezer Blakeman/Blackman b. 1725 4. Enoch Blakeman/Blackman b. 1740; fought in the Revolutionary War 5. ____________Blakeman/Blackman 6. Philo Blackman, b. 1812 in New York; married Clarinda Rogers in Pennsylvania; removed to Richland County, Ohio 1844/45; fought in the Civil War, 15R CI OVI; died 1873 in Richland County, Ohio*

  • this is information I have been able to find citations for, independent of the Hancock County bio.

Any help would be appreciated.

Rebekah--Rebekah Carlisle 15:04, 12 January 2013 (EST)

Hi Rebecca,

Without consulting my files at home (at library right now), I found a Family Group for an Enoch Blakeman (Rev. soldier)who died 1811 here [[1]] Didn't see citations, but will check at home. I'm also descended from Adam and have some sources. Give me a few days as SNOW is due here.--Neal Gardner 16:04, 12 January 2013 (EST)


Thanks, Neal, for the quick response. I saw the same site your referenced but it doesn't have sufficient details to link to Philo in Richland County, Ohio. There are 2 Enoch Blackmans on the DAR site - one from Hartford, Conn.

Good luck with the incoming weather & thanks for any assistance you may be able to provide.

RC--Rebekah Carlisle 19:17, 12 January 2013 (EST)

St Mary's Kansas [16 January 2013]

FYI; Actually St Mary's is in both counties as it is on the border, only if you get address specific can you tell where what part you are looking for in St Mary's is located in which county. Though the Church itself is located in Pottawatomie; the name of St Marys is enough to get people to the right place. Just curious.--T town ks 19:05, 15 January 2013 (EST)

Thomas Wetmore lineage [23 May 2013]

By the way, are you a descendant of Thomas Wetmore? If so, connecting to him through which of his children?

Hal Whitmore--Hnwhitmore 16:36, 23 May 2013 (EDT)

Hi Hal

Thomas' son:
Samuel and Mary Bacon
their dau Mary and Josiah Beardsley
Mostly researched through Middletown CT Vitals
--Neal Gardner 17:57, 23 May 2013 (EDT)

Robert Maurice Horgan 1921-1973 [4 June 2013]

Hi Neal! I have cousins who are looking to get in touch with this family. Do you have any suggestions?

Claudia--LutheranChickadee 14:00, 4 June 2013 (EDT)

Hi Claudia, I see you are relatively new to Werelate. First of all, welcome. I'm not related to the Horgans, but I like to pitch in and help in a very unofficial capacity. When I have time, I do a little correcting on pages other than my own (uncapitalizing surnames, correcting places, sources, etc.). I was a genealogical librarian for many years. Yesterday I picked "Neal" (Neal T. Horgan) in a general search to tidy up about 80 pages. FindAGrave.com could help find Horgans in MN, and general searches on the internet could give your cousin some current addresses or other researchers. Regards...--Neal Gardner 14:27, 4 June 2013 (EDT)


no watchers [15 June 2014]

I am throwing this out as an observation only. I believe I understand why you don't watch.

People can delete pages when they are the only watcher. They find a page that interests them, they watch it, then they delete their whole tree, and poof, the page is gone. It doesn't matter that you once input to that page. Further, I found out recently that anybody can delete a page if there are no watchers. --Jrich 19:44, 15 June 2014 (UTC)


Thanks, I didn't want to "balloon" my watched pages, but for now I'll watch what I've created. --Neal Gardner 19:53, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Amos L Mason [28 June 2014]

Thanks for correcting the date typo on Amos Lewis Mason, Neal.--Gunnj 16:50, 28 June 2014 (UTC)


You're quite welcome. I'm trying to sort out the 4 cemeteries in Greene Twp, Trumbull, by the way. Neither WR or F.A.G. have them absolutely correct - the conventional & colloquial names changed so many times that they're easily confused.--Neal Gardner 17:07, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Hector W Gunn [28 June 2014]

Neal,

Here is an interesting problem: Hector W. Gunn, a son of Westrall and Betsey, is kind of a mystery. He seems to have married several times and he may have spent some time in jail (an 1880 census report shows a Hector Gunn as a prisoner in Corunna, Shiawassee, Michigan). In Family Search I’ve come across this transcription of a marriage document (the original is not available to view):

Name: Willoughby H. Gunn
Birthplace: Rusia Her Kilmer Co. Ny [Russia, Herkimer County, NY]
Spouse’s Name: Mary O’Conner [maiden name must have been Smith]
Spouse’s Birthplace: West Point, NY
Event Date: 30 Jul 1888
Event Place: Racine, Wisconsin
Father’s Name: Wetrule W. Gunn [Westrall Willoughby Gunn?]
Mother’s Name: Betsy E. Shafer [Betsey Elizabeth Sharp ?]
Spouse’s Father’s Name: Wm. M. Smith
Spouse’s Mother’s Name: Anna Hous
Source: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XRKN-3HM

I think this is Hector—Hector Willoughby Gunn. Other members of his family went to Wisconsin, including Westrall for a time. What do you know about Hector? What’s your thinking on this?--Gunnj 17:19, 28 June 2014 (UTC)


Looks like a match to me, and the Russia (twp?) in Herkimer is quite possible. I'm inclined to create a timeline for Westrill which might sort out where he was when. BTW, my Dad referred to Westrill as a "horse thief and a scandalous business man". Wish I had asked him who told him that - possibly his grandmother, Edith Jane (Gunn) Winans, known as a tough cookie. Dad said his grandfather, William Wendell Winans was easy-going and lenient, Edith was much harder to please.--Neal Gardner 17:32, 28 June 2014 (UTC)


problems today with WR [1 September 2014]

Neal, WeRelate seems to be having various problems all day today. See the bottom section of Support. Your msg didn't get posted as a separate topic. I found it at the very TOP of the Support page. Must be some kind of server problem. --janiejac 03:34, 1 September 2014 (UTC)


Thanks janiejac. First time I used Watercooler/Support; a little "green" on how to use. Ironically I also had trouble with my FindaGrave account yesterday. It kept telling me that it didn't recognize my email, yet still letting me enter. The "genealogy fairies" just weren't cooperating ! --SkippyG 17:58, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

John Root (8) [24 September 2014]

Neal, You're too quick! I was in the process of finding the correct reference for S1 when you updated John's page. Interesting for me is that you found a different source entry for the same information. (I think) How are these duplicates handled? Seems WR would ideally want only one source for the same info. I was going to use Source:Westfield, Hampden, Massachusetts, United States. Birth and Death Records from Westfield City Hall--Frank 21:21, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

I didn't find a "Westfield.....to the year 1850" in the WR Source Index, so I picked the most general title I could find. If you've read the reference in the source you mentioned, go ahead and change. As far as "duplicate references for the same date, place, etc.", I always believed that one source backs up another; I don't think there's a strict rule on double-sources, otherwise hundreds of us would have a lot of deleting to do. Regards..--SkippyG 21:36, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Lyona Cemetery Link [24 January 2015]

Neal,

Just to let you know, the cemetery information for William Winans is entered as "Lyona, Crawford, Pennsylvania, United States", because that is how it is listed in WeRelate's database. Anything different will cause it to link to a page that reads "(A page for this place does not exist. To create one, click on the Edit link at the left. Get help editing places.)", instead of linking to the Lyona page. Do you know how to request a change in the database info, or possibly an addition of information for the cemetery, from WeRelate? It would make things easier if there was a listing for the cemetery along with the listing for Lyona as a inhabited place as it is now. I just recently started working with this site and don't know how to contact the admin(s) yet.

Thanks, Dale--redwingstar 21:16, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

(I'm one of those admins....) I'm not sure why referencing the cemetery wasn't working for you. It's set now. And I've used the FindAGrave template, which provides a one-stop place to apply updates in case FindAGrave ever rearranges their site structure. --pkeegstra 00:34, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Phineas Kenyon [19 April 2015]

Hello Neal,

The Woodstock Vital Records, p. 302: "Phinehas Kinyon and Elisabeth Rogers were Married according to Law in Woodftock January 22d 1767 by the Revd Abiel Leonard Paftor"

This does not tell us that Phineas was from Washington Co., RI. I have some extracts of Exter, RI deeds and I see that Phineas of South Kingstown, did have a wife named Elizabeth by 1773. Phineas and Elizabeth of Exeter are "supposed" to be identical with the Phineas and Elizabeth Kenyon of Washington County, New York. A Kenyon genealogy says that Phineas left a will 1829, proved 1829 but I don't have a copy.

This is all that I can come up with right now. --Susan Irish 03:22, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Scraping F.A.G. [8 May 2015]

This conjured up quite a picture in my head: all those disinterments that happen on crime-based TV programs. Awaiting further progress. --Goldenoldie 19:58, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Person:Ephraim Adkins (4) [10 June 2015]

Neal:

Nice catches; thanks for the cleanup.

One question, why the change in the format for the Find A Grave citation. Somebody came up with the template a couple of years ago and I've been using it (a lot) ever since. I personally don't see any value added by naming the cemetery both in the Burial line of the timeline and in the reference section. Your thoughts?--jaques1724 00:10, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

My unsolicited two cents: just because a source says something doesn't make it fact, nor does it mean that will always be thought to be correct. The reason for having what the source says in the citation is, among others, if it turns out to be wrong, the fact box will change, but it would then create a wrong impression that source supported the newly-entered value which it doesn't. In particular there are cases of Find a Grave having two memorials naming different cemeteries, memorials that aren't burial sites, Find A Grave choosing a questionable name for the cemetery, etc. But as a general principle, this is true also. A vital record may say one thing, a baptism may say something incompatible, and so there is almost always room for any source to differ from what is currently believed to be the fact, no matter how reliable the source. It is, in the words of Emmett Brown in Back to the Future, "thinking fourth-dimensionally", protecting the value and integrity of the source citation from side-effects of various future edits. --Jrich 01:04, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
I think we're having two separate discussions. I believe you and I are on the same page regarding Find A Grave. It's reasonably reliable as long as you have the gravestone image (preferably readable). If there is no image, there are other ways of verifying the place of interment. Specifically, for Connecticut, the Hale Collection (1930s), which is available on Ancestry, is useful, especially in southeast CT where so many gravestones are sandstone and have deteriorated significantly over the years. In Massachusetts, the published vital records can be helpful but don't seem to be cited unless there was no other evidence for the date of death. There are, of course, other sources for various localities; e.g., Waterbury, CT.The biographical information included in the memorials ranges from useful to hopelessly misleading and so should be verified independently where possible. Like any other source, including published VRs, it ain't perfect.--Bill Carr 18:48, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes regarding reliability of Find A Grave and perhaps gravestones in general, but perhaps not on whether the cemetery should be in the source citation as well as in the timeline. I vote for both, or if only one, for leaving it out of the timeline altogether and only putting it in the source citation. Again, it goes in the source citation because that is what the source says, whether right or wrong. I happen to think the value of burial in the timeline is marginal unless the location is different than the death, which might cause a confusing situation if not fully documented. Half the time I document the burial only because I happen to know a person that spends their vacations visiting cemeteries. I like the timeline to be brief and the sources detailed (exception: minimizing redundant secondary sources) on the assumption an uninterested reader wants the timeline to tell them quickly that they're not interested, while an interested person will probably read everything, no matter where it is on the page. --Jrich 21:04, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
I think that putting the cemetery in the place field on the burial line serves a useful purpose in linking a particular person to a particular cemetery. Then one can do a quick "What links here" to identify all the persons who are (at least allegedly) buried there. There are other ways to accomplish that, but I can't think of any so simple. So, my vote would be for the place of burial on the time line. Current practice would also include it in the source citation, even if only indirectly.--Bill Carr 00:09, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Lyon/Clark [12 July 2015]

Hi Skippy, you've likely noticed that I added a few records to the pages of Ebenezer Lyon and his son-in-law Ephraim Clark, some from my files and other sources, which I noted. Hopefully, it adds some good info in helping others to prove their families.

Best regards,

Jim:)--Delijim 13:53, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Elizabeth vs. Elizabethtown, New Jersey [13 July 2015]

Hi Skippy (or is it Neal, I'm confused, What happened to Neal?.... ),

Regarding adding Elizabeth (borough) aa a place, it appears that both Elizabethtown, Essex County, New Jersey, and Elizabeth, Union County, New Jersey already exists, so it appears you don't have any problem at this point. As far as the "1900 rule", I wasn't involved in the discussion regarding that rule, so I can't really comment on that. I spend most of my time working on a few projects here on WeRelate, and I spend as little time as possible debating new "rules", I leave that up to others here... :) Luckily, compared with other sites like Wikipedia, we don't have a "cast of thousands" of rule-enforcers here, so you have some flexibility to be a little more "creative" than on other sites. Generally, I dislike new rules, especially when they inhibit others freedom to research and document their ancestors without constantly being pestered.... :)

Best regards,

Jim--Delijim 00:23, 13 July 2015 (UTC)


Skippy, got your message, you've got no issues with me here, keep on adding good info:) Also, thanks for your service as a librarian for many years, I've certainly hung out in several libraries over my years doing my research and the librarians were always very helpful.

Best regards,

Jim:)

William Jehiel Rogers [19 October 2015]

Neal--I am the daughter of William Jehiel Rogers's son who had the same name. My mother just introduced me to this site and I also find it fascinating to learn of my family's history given my father was an only child. My father passed in August of 2008 and my brother passed in September 2009. I will be adding them to this site to keep it updated. I also wonder your relationship to the Rogers family. Please feel free to email me at any time with any further interesting facts you uncover.

Marie Ann (Rogers)Chomyk chomykmac@gmail.com--Mchomyk 18:44, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

William Jehiel Rogers [19 October 2015]

Neal--I am the daughter of William Jehiel Rogers's son who had the same name. My mother just introduced me to this site and I also find it fascinating to learn of my family's history given my father was an only child. My father passed in August of 2008 and my brother passed in September 2009. I will be adding them to this site to keep it updated. I also wonder your relationship to the Rogers family. Please feel free to email me at any time with any further interesting facts you uncover.

Marie Ann (Rogers)Chomyk chomykmac@gmail.com--Mchomyk 18:44, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Places [29 February 2016]

Helping with places [23 January 2016]

I understand from Rhian that you might be interested in helping expand the knowledge on our placenames database. Rhian suggested that I get in touch with you to see if we might be able to work together.

I have been working on UK placenames for the past couple of years and before that on southern Ontario. I notice that most of your family categories are in the States, so we may not have geographical interests in common. The average quantity and quality of information about American places on WR is completely unknown to me. Since I have no traceable American ancestors (the ones I have were in New Jersey before 1800), I haven't investigated what the US placename pages are like.

WR placenames in the UK are arranged in counties, the immediate next sector down from the country itself. However, because this can often mean attacking more than 300 places in one group, I have broken down the counties into their more local administrative areas and working on one of these areas at a time. This also allows the information in "Research Tips" to be made into a template (or at least a "temporary" template on a sticky note at the side of my screen) which can be added to a whole series of places without too much hassle.

Categories are very useful in Places because they can (1) collect up the list of WR Sources for any one place, or (2) group a number of local places together. Filling in the field "See also" with all the local administrations a place has been linked with over time is a way of providing a quick resume of a place's history and indicate where records for that place may be hiding.

If you might be interested in helping to work on UK places or if you would like to put some of these ideas to work on areas of the world that you know more about than I, then we may be able to work together to expand the information in WR.

From what we are hearing on our news broadcasts at the moment, maybe I should ask if you are coping with snow?

/cheers, Pat aka --Goldenoldie 10:15, 23 January 2016 (UTC)


Hi Pat, Amazingly, the part of NE Ohio where I live is missing the large snow storm affecting Washington DC, etc. by about 30 miles. We've received less than an inch of snow here, whereas the Steubenville, Ohio area is receiving 4-5" and the Cleveland, Ohio area 3-4" of mainly "lake-effect" snow.

A brief sketch of my ancestry. My parents were born and raised in the Connecticut Western Reserve of Ohio, therefore I calculated about 50% of my tree originated in England and came early to Connecticut & Massachusetts, most recently Samuel & Hannah (Gilmore) Tanner who came from Tunbridge Wells (Samuel born Buxted, Hannah born Worthing and married in Brighton.) They arrived in 1848 and shortly after in Ohio. About 30% came from Ulster (Dungannon & Belfast) and an Irish Quaker family from Ballyencree (sp?). Other lines originate in Scotland, Wales, Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, France (Huguenots). And by family stories (no proof yet) a line originating in Quebec province, then residing somewhere in Southern Ontario and crossing over to upstate New York before 1822. I've only been to the UK once for 6 days, visiting Brighton, Bath, Cardiff, the Cotswolds (Stow on the Wold), and 2 days in London with tickets for 'Phantom of the Opera'.

All to say that I would love to add more knowledge re: UK places. If you can point me to sources, I'd be happy to help out. I've sorted out many of the counties in Ohio, especially northern Ohio, as well as Pennsylvania. Incorrect info on place pages irks me. Feel free to contact me at gardnerneal (at) live.com or my talk page.

By the way, I totally appreciate the contributions you are making. I've already taken advantage of many of the changes you've made. Regards... Neal Gardner (part-time Anglophile)--SkippyG 17:38, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi ! [19 March 2016]

Greetings from myself....--SkippyG 06:39, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Heads up [16 April 2016]

I noticed you were one person affected 2 years ago when User:Ccbreland deleted a gedcom that linked to some other families, they are trying to upload another gedcom, 3600 people and dozens of matched pages. It will not be uploaded due the number of errors and I am trying to suggest they upload a smaller gedcom but thought I would give a warning to watch what happens.--Rhian 14:57, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Let me know what I can help with with Welsh lines, happy to help.--Rhian 11:17, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

new cemetery pages [14 May 2016]

Hi Neal, I knew I was 'cheating' when I added all those cemetery pages without appropriate info :( I was uploading a GEDCOM and it seemed that WeRelate didn't have cemetery pages for most of the folks I was uploading. In previous times, I would stop to create pages, but yesterday I figured I'd never get it uploaded if I had to stop each time to get the required info and input it. At first I just linked to the place page deleting the cemetery info, but then thought an incomplete cem pg would be better than no info on the burial at all. So yesterday's upload is a mix of incomplete burial info and/or incomplete cemetery place pages. But I got it all reviewed, sourced and matched :) And I still have a list of pages to go back and 'fix' various problems. I sure wish there was a way to either renumber sources or put them in chronological order. And when I fixed a page today the first thing I saw was that danged MyHeritage ad right before my Wall Bashing icon Person:Benjamin Jackson (77) At the rate I'm going, who knows if I'll get back to fix all those incomplete cemetery pages or not. I don't know, is it better to leave half a mess or nothing at all? --janiejac 20:11, 7 May 2016 (UTC)


That would be great Neal! I went to the list of my yesterday's contributions and just copied the cemetery page references. It's not in just one county. If you have time and interest it would be great to clean this up. Here are the pgs I created without the needed info.

20:05, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Wilmington Cemetery, Wilmington, Will, Illinois, United States (create cem pg) (top)
20:03, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:West Oneonta Cemetery, Oneonta, Otsego, New York, United States (create cem pg) DONE(top)
20:02, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Weaver Cemetery, Purcell, Jasper, Missouri, United States (create cem pg) DONE (top)
19:57, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Springfield Cemetery, Springfield Center, Otsego, New York, United States (create cem pg) DONE (top)
19:54, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Shumway Hill Cemetery, Wellsboro, Tioga, Pennsylvania, United States (create cem pg) DONE(top)
19:50, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Monroe, Wyoming, Pennsylvania, United States (create place pg) (top) I had trouble with this page; it wanted to go to Wyoming the state. DONE
19:46, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Ouleout Valley Cemetery, Franklin, Delaware, New York, United States (create cem pg) DONE Note: there is also an Ouleout Cemetery in North Franklin (top)
19:45, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Oakwood Cemetery, Wilmington, Will, Illinois, United States (create cem pg) DONE (top)
19:43, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Oak Hill Cemetery, Herkimer, New York, United States (creat cem pg.) DONE (top)
19:37, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Marcy Cemetery, Duryea, Luzerne, Pennsylvania, United States (create cem pg)You already fixed this one! DONE
19:32, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Lakewood Cemetery, Cooperstown, Otsego, New York, United States (create cem pg) DONE (top)
19:30, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Kingsbury Hill Cemetery, Wayne, Pennsylvania, United States (create cem pg) DONE (top)
19:28, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Herkimer County Home Cemetery, Herkimer, New York, United States (create cem pg) DONE(top)
19:23, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Granite Hill Cemetery, Grants Pass, Josephine, Oregon, United States (create cem place) DONE(top)
19:16, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Fitch Cemetery, Falls, Wyoming, Pennsylvania, United States (create cem place pg)DONE (top)
18:49, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Exeter, Wyoming, Pennsylvania, United States (create place pg) Not a cem pg; is a township but may need help.DONE
18:46, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Evergreen Cemetery, Shavertown, Luzerne, Pennsylvania, United States (create cem place pg) DONE
18:45, May 6, 2016 (hist) (diff) m Place:Elmhurst Cemetery, Joliet, Will, Illinois, United States (creat cem place pg) DONE

Now I'll see if I can figure out which cemeteries I just skipped by linking to the locality without a cem pg. That will be harder to find and maybe not as needed as cleaning up these created w/o info. --janiejac 00:30, 8 May 2016 (UTC)


The Wilmington cemetery should have been Oakwood Cemetery, Wilmington, Will Co., Illinois. I took 'Wilmington Cemetery' from George W. Robson's death certificate. But find him in Oakwood on Find-a-Grave. Thanks, --janiejac 01:40, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for completing my unfinished work!! That was a big job I wasn't prepared to handle. Thanks again. I have more to upload but think I'll wait to see how the problem with ads in the user area plays out. I feel like WeRelate is a ship floundering without a captain. I want to holler 'May Day, May Day'! --janiejac 19:15, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Neal, While editing Person: Jane Harvey (8) to remove red links I found that the Source:Portrait and Biographical Album of Jo Daviess and Carroll Counties, Illinois : Containing Full Page Portraits and Biographical Sketches of Prominent is duplicated by Source:Portrait and Biographical Album of Jo Daviess and Carroll Counties, Illinois. I'm unsure how to merge sources so hoping you can fix both that and also the red link to the cemetery on Jane Harvey's page. I can do the research but seem to need a lot of help getting it right on WeRelate! I'm thankful for collaboration and help! (Still no response from Dallan!) --janiejac 17:01, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks again! --janiejac 18:03, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

John Sharp and Isa Noble vs John B Sharp and Eleanor Perry [25 June 2016]

Hello, Neal.

I was just looking at the children of James Sharp and Sally West. John B Sharp was a bit of a problem, but I think I've solved it. He married Eleanor Perry and they lived in Mecosta, Michigan for a while (with other members of his family). They eventually move to North Dakota. (Would be interesting to know why.) The problem that remains is that you have John marrying Isa Noble. I am pretty sure that's a different John Sharp (there are several born about the same time in Ohio). It is John R Sharp, born 1840/41 in Trumbull who married Isa Noble. His parents were Caleb Sharp and Mary Ann Taylor. This John and Isa had several children, including the Glen you have listed. It is John B Sharp who is the son of James and Sally. He married Eleanor Perry. Check it out. You might want to remove John R and Isa.--Gunnj 15:05, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank You [29 June 2016]

Thanks for cleaning up some of my stuff, Neal. John Tucker and Leila Wainwright, etc. Since I first established my family history at we relate, I haven't taken the time to go back and review and clean up.--Maggie 17:42, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Question... [20 July 2016]

Were you among those with knowledge of how to create a BOT for WeRelate? I'm looking for some guidance/assistance on the subject.

If not - do you remember who may be?

Thanks!

--jrm03063 15:20, 20 July 2016 (UTC)


Encourage [29 August 2016]

Keep up the good work.--SkippyG 04:57, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you! [9 September 2016]

Hi Neal, thank you for fixing some of the pages I've contributed to! I'm new to this site, still learning the grounds, I recently have been trying to move away from my previous genealogy home, Wikitree. I can still say I love Wikitree, but if I am going to continue doing more research, I'd like my work to mean more. Here at WeRelate, we have so many transparent options and whatnot. One big example is vital citations. On wikitree, we cannot cite on the birth or what not, the cite would be ignored and just listed as a source.

So anyway the point of this message is just to tell you that I hope to make my home here, and I love how open we are here! Thanks!--Dexus 07:40, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

John Leavitt [24 September 2016]

Hi Neal,

I, obviously, do not believe that John Leavitt the immigrant was a son of Percival Leavitt of York. Robert Charles Anderson, of the Great Migration Series. says that the origins of this John are unknown. The problem is so many people think it is so. If you disconnect the parents from John the immigrant will someone come along and re add them? Is it better to leave them in place with a warning that they are highly questionable? I'm not sure which is best. From a purely genealogical standpoint I would choose to remove them, but would include a lengthy explanation as to why you do not think they are his parents.

Jeanie--Jeanieroberts 23:33, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Please forgive my intrusion....perhaps I can offer some help? The problem you describe above was contemplated in the fact assertion templates. Specifically, by Template:NoAcceptedParents. I know that lots of folks find the yellow text appalling, but that can be changed to ordinary, bold, or whatever as we (the community) may prefer. One idea would be to make a very tiny red stop sign or red flag appear prior to the text.
It would be good if one of you could support the "NoAcceptedParents" fact with the citation from Anderson.
Of course, you may feel free to do something else if you feel you have better ideas... --jrm03063 00:49, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
I think Robert Charles Anderson is the best secondary source there is. That said, his use of "Unknown" reflects only the knowledge at the time of his publication, and that requiring a relatively high degree of proof. Meaning, that when he says unknown, there are often many possible hypotheses that are neither proven nor disproven. It appears RCA says absolutely nothing about Percival, either pro or con. So if somebody can present some argument based on documented facts that allows it to be a possibility, they should. On the other hand, any posting must fit with a birth about 1612 (based on date of marriage according to Anderson - before 1637 - not to mention grant of land in 1634, presumably verifiable events). If Percival had a son John baptized in 1625 that makes it extremely unlikely those events correspond to his son (relying on the website cited on Percival's marriage page). But 1625 seems an unlikely date given Percival's marriage in 1607, so maybe this website has the wrong family (it shows children bp. as late as 1640, about 33 years after marriage!). In other words, there is plenty of doubt on both sides. In any event, "NoAcceptedParents" is not really appropriate, since there are no accepted parents only because of our lack of knowledge, and anybody having good evidence would be doing us all a great service by posting what they know. Just because one person does not know, does not mean somebody out there doesn't. What is appropriate is to put sources that explain why they believe any particular assertion is true, or is not true, based on documented events that happened, or to fully explain any assumptions. If you can't do that, then it is probably best to post nothing. Genealogy by bald assertion cannot be tolerated in a collaborative environment. --Jrich 03:35, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

At present, I'm waiting for Jeanieroberts to tell me how to access the child bps for Percival & Margaret (I can't find them.) The marriage date is unreferenced and likely created to fit 1608 John. 1608 John will evolve, much in the way you view it, or I will remove it [Template] and do otherwise; another contributor added the template and disconnected him from Percival. Too late here to do anymore searching, and I have appointments tomorrow - you'll have to wait for the page to develop until at least Thursday.--SkippyG 04:05, 21 September 2016 (UTC) P.S. Jeanie, this is Jrich's input above. If you have a response, please jump in.

Some of the baptisms are found with this query. Good point about marriage date, yet another unanchored data point. --Jrich 04:39, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Have no knowledge of English records, but it seems to me you are name matching on the father's name. No mother is named in baptisms. How can you tell which Percival is which? There are three different churches involved in the children named in the narrative on Percival's page - how can we tell that these births spread over 35 years aren't 3 different Percivals, and maybe none of them are the same as the one Emily Noyes was talking about? Don't know how good she is, but she found the gravestone of John Leavitt and Robert Charles Anderson didn't, so I am inclined to start out giving her the benefit of the doubt. It seems to me that a will is needed desperately. Just making an observation. --Jrich 03:16, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

I see you added Anna and Joseph. I wanted to cite only 1625 John first, locate other Percival children making notes only, and then tackle finding the proposed 2 or 3 wives, and other possible Percival's in Yorkshire w/marriages and any probate I can find, without eliminating dates for the Percival & wife already there. I wasn't going to delete an alleged wife, and start from scratch. Transferring John to a different mother is not complicated. Finding probate and marriages might be, and it's not even THURSDAY. And please be aware, I'm going out-of-state Oct. 1 for 5 to 7 days; I won't be researching on vacation. I'm not name matching, I'm trying to figure out the whole Levet/Leavitt picture one step at a time. Ms. Noyes (1941) gives no references for the dates she gives for Percival's children, so I tend to be skeptical of them. Neal--SkippyG 03:57, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Of course, as soon as you posted John, it is visible to others, and since you posted it to those parents, and since most likely Joseph and Anna go in that family too (since those are the three baptisms occurring in a short time (4 years) at one church), it seemed like they should be posted there as well. In fact, the whole group going together is actually part of the evidence and based on surrounding facts (i.e., whether Percival is born about 1580 as the factlist says but which doesn't work well with his father's birth in 1560), or 1590 as the footnote-less narrative says and NEGHR 67:76 implies by placement in his parent's family (assuming he was made a freeman exactly on his 21st birthday which strikes me as unlikely) it may or may not be likely that this family had 3 children in 4 years (1580 probably not, 1590 maybe?) If you wanted to work outwards, perhaps it would have been better to create the page for John and not attach him to any parents instead of attaching him to the parents which used to be attached to the other John Leavitt. The choice of attaching him to this page appears to be sending a message and I don't see that it was shown yet who his mother was, etc. Yes finding evidence will be hard: if it wasn't the answer would probably be well known. Tracking the cross-Atlantic origins of colonial immigrants has been called the most error-prone area of American genealogy. Have a nice vacation. --Jrich 12:51, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
I posted some church records on this page: Parents of John Leavitt Per Emily Noyes. I figured you didn't want them all posted here and I don't want to build a bunch of pages without more information, which I don't have handy. Mr. Temperamental. --Jrich 23:00, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Places in the City of York, England [22 September 2016]

Hi

I've been working on updating our database of England for a couple of years and I did Yorkshire fairly early in the run. As I have gone along I have made improvements to how I go about things, but have not gone back to counties done at the early stages ( I am still not finished my first attempt at each and every county!). However, I have the City of York down as [[Place:York, Yorkshire, England|York]]. It is not classified as East Riding, West Riding, North Riding because, through history, the borders between the Ridings moved about a bit so that sometimes York was in one riding and then in another.

It was after finishing Yorkshire that I discovered that in cities that were bishoprics, particularly, some of the churches were also ecclesiastical parishes with boundaries, just like civil parishes were/are. So I then adopted a series of names in the WR database for these parishes following the procedure in A Vision of Britain through Time.

The name of the city is followed by the name of the church. See the list of parishes in Gloucestershire for an idea of what they look like. English Jurisdictions is a supplementary website to FamilySearch which outlines local parish boundaries in the middle on the 19th century. The information provided is especially useful for establishing the locations of ecclesiastical parishes in large towns and cathedral cities, as well as changes in their dedications (names). Sometimes I have not included all the ecclesiastical parishes. Some disappeared at the reformation or later, and there was a great deal of mergers of parishes even into the 20th century. It can take a whole day to figure out and describe ecclesiastical parishes for a city the size of Gloucester (which is not exceptionally large), so I tended to omit the very small and short-lived ones. The two websites menioned above will give you an idea of how long the parish existed for.

Contrary to what is in WR guidance notes, I have replaced all uses of "Saint" with "St.". When I first started looking at the county databases I discovered a lot of variation, so I worked to the most usual. I never use hyphens, once again there were too many variations. "Saint" and hyphenated words like "Bell-hill" are redirected to "St." and "Bell Hill", so that the user will get there in the end.

At the moment the ecclesiastical parishes of York are not in WR's database (neither are those of Oxford or Cambridge). Some day I will get around to them, and attempt to adjust user's descriptions to match.

Regards --Goldenoldie 10:08, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi again.

I work from online sources. I'm not disabled, but the family situation is such that I can't get out of the house much, and we live in a village. Hence, even getting to the local library would be an unusual occurence for me. I wish I could find better online sources. Genuki seems to think the world stopped sometime in the 19th century, A Vision of Britain through Time manages to reach 1974 (a major date of reorganization) on a hit and miss basis, and some contributors to Wikipedia have no concept that life happened before 2000. Right now I am drawing a map of the most urban part of Northumberland to explain its 20th century alterations to myself as well as to other WR readers.

For a really deep analysis of local history in Britain for the 19th century and earlier, I recommend the Victoria County Histories published by British History Online. Unfortunately not all counties have been covered. You will find links under WR Research Tips where they exist. In quite a few counties I have pointed out the exact quote for individual parishes. The most difficult thing about British History Online is the ability of their search engine to lead you from their home page to the county you want. I hadn't discovered the Victoria County Histories when I was doing Yorkshire, but I am sure it is represented. Victoria County Histories are very good for thumbnail reviews of landowning families within a parish. They also quite often mention the industries that made a place tick.

I have had to be in touch with the organizers of A Vision of Britain through Time more than once to clarify some of their entries, and I was recently told that a new edition is expected in the new year. Vision is produced by Portsmouth University geography department and Portsmouth also is the HQ of the Ordnance Survey (who have been producing high resolution British maps for 200 years). There are sure to be people with feet in both camps.

Hope these comments have been a help to you. /cheers, --Goldenoldie 19:01, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Miscellaneous records for Levett/Leavitt [26 September 2016]

"Calender of Yorkshire probate records taken from the deanery act books of the Exchequer Court of York 1688-1731"
pa/image 244 [2]

Name/Place/Deanery/Date/Doc Type
Levett, Andrew/South Dalton/Harthill/29 Jul 1698/A=Letters of Adm.
Levett, Anne/York/York/11 Apr 1700/W= Wills & Testaments
Levett, Elizabeth/York/York/25 Jan 1699/A=Letters of Adm.
Levett, Jacob/Appleton Roebuck/Ainsty of York/19 Jul 1690/A=Letters of Adm.
Levett, Mark/York/York/23 Jan 1699/W=Wills & Testaments
Levett, Thomas/Normanton/Pontafract/19 Aug 1690/W=Wills & Testaments
--SkippyG 16:51, 26 September 2016 (UTC)


Greetings [14 November 2016]

Hola--SkippyG 04:05, 14 November 2016 (UTC)