Person:Robert Carpenter (18)

!Additional information supplied by Raymond George Carpenter, American Genealogist for the American Family. His sources referenced are: "English Genealogist Harry F. Rogers, Bunise's various 19th century works; "Life of Lord George Carpenter" printed 1736; Play fair's Family Antiquities; and the Davis and Owen Perrage; Will of the Town Clerk of London." He indicates only 3 known children for Robert: Richard, Joan and Katherine.

!SEE: "THE CITY OF LONDON SCHOOL" By A. E. Douglas-Smith, 2nd Edition, 1965, Oxford. The City of London School for the Poor was endowed by this Robert's brother, named John or John the younger. It mentions on page 3, that a son named Robert Carpenter, "of whom nothing is known except that he had a son (named) Richard and two daughters (named) Joan and Katherine." This is known by John the younger's will. In 1422 a Robert Carpenter was deputed by the Brewers' Company to go with the Mayor to Gravesend and attend to the removal of weirs in the Thames.

!E-MAIL: Per Bruce E. Carpenter: The identity of Robert Carpenter, the brother of Town Clerk John, might well be revealed in the following legal documents. The nature of the cases is not clear. However, we can safely assume they are property related, families with means trying to increase their holdings and influence. Interesting is the designation of `clerk' for Robert Carpenter. Those of us who have read Chaucer will remember the Clerk's Tale. Clerks in the Middle Ages were very well known people indeed. The term clerk would be better rendered as `lawyer ', a clerk being half accountant, half lawyer in a society where illiteracy was common. Powerful interests were in real need of educated individuals who would take care of business. Clerks were educated at universities like Oxford and other institutions. We can assume that anyone who was a clerk came from a family of means, a family that could support a son through his course of education, for a career of clerkship for some powerful economic organization, or family like an aristocratic one. The place in the dispositions is Kyngeston upon Thames (modern spelling is Kingston on Thames). In the same town is a Thomas Carpenter, relation unspecified. Thomas has no specified trade connection, which is very interesting. The proximity to the Thames is also suggestive that Robert and Thomas were somehow connected to ships and trade. The town is also connected to the crown. "To the sherrif of Surrey. Like writ, mutatis mutandis, by mainprise of Thomas Grenewort, Robert Carpenter clerk, both of Kyngeston upon Thames, John Stokes of Someset, and William Rason of Kyngeston upon Thames, in favor of Robert Rugge `wever' and Agnes his wife." (Close Rolls, 1407, June 2nd) To the sherrif of Surrey.Like writ. Mutantis mutandis, by mainprise of John Smart, Thomas Richard `cordwaner', Thomas Glover and Thomas Avery `cordwaner ' of Middlesex in favor of Thomas Carpenter of Kyngeston upon Thames, Joan his wife, Nicholas Fisshere of Kyngeston on Thames and Agnes his wife at suit of John Prynce `shoutman' and alice his wife." (August 8th).

!NOTE: The John and Robert mentioned below may have been brothers. It may refer to this Robert and his brother John. E-MAIL: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 From: "Bruce E. Carpenter" <[email protected]> The political tensions of the late 1300s provide us with glimpse of the London Carpenters and enough evidence to begin to define them as a family group at this interesting but troubled juncture of English history. The story begins with the opposition to King Richard II by three powerful aristocrats, Richard Fitzalan earl of Arundel, Thomas Beauchamp earl of Warwick and Thomas of Woodstock duke of Gloucester. Open conflict begins in the late 1380s. Members of the King's faction are impeached by Parliament by the urging of the above three. The King retaliates against the supporters of the three. In the midst of this we find Richard Carpenter and his sons John and Robert harassed and arrested. The implication of this is that the Carpenters must have held land from the three, and their economic activities must have been intertwined. Ten years later in the late 1390s King Richard II had his revenge on the three aristocrats. Arundel was executed, Gloucester murdered and Beauchamp banished. John of Gaunt, the man behind the scene in all of this, remains neutral until his son Henry Bolinbroke finally deposes King Richard II and he himself becomes King Henry IV. This sets the stage for the long War of Roses, the conflict between the Lancaster and Yorkist claims to the throne, with the Carpenters naturally on the Lancaster side. When the three above aristocrats had their estates confiscated, the litigation for one of them happily lists the tenants. John and Robert Carpenter appear as holding a good proportion of the land. The document is extremely Long and I will give portions of it. It is from the Calendar of Inquisitions, document 298. "Thomas duke of Gloucester had on the day of his forfeiture the manor of Tarent Launston__..There are 2 carucates of land of 200 acres each__.pasture on `le Doune' for 400 sheep worth 6s. 8d. yearly in excess of their winter keep, the shepherd's wages and livery and grease for the sheep__John Rauwe, John Hayne, John Carpenter, Walter Russell, Robert Carpenter, John Chubbe, Vincent Pynselond, Walter Serle, Thomas and John Russell, Rodger Trubbe, John Rodger and John Roule, whole virgaters, each holding a messuage and 24 acres of land, paying 4s. yearly and doing works worth 2s. yearly." The manor appears to have been in Dorcet. We can assume that the Carpenters didn't live on the manor. This land was probably one of many of their holdings. In the document mention is made of the kind of people who actually managed the land for their absent landlords. The document describes various uses the land was put to. Sheep were a detailed and special mention, but not the only mentioned use. Unfortunately which tenant had the sheep is not specified, although I suspect the Carpenters. Bruce E. Carpenter

!E-MAIL: Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000. From: Bruce Carpenter (Back in Japan) <[email protected]> John: After returning to my Japan office I looked through the Carpenter material I had previously collected. Long ago I had printed the Carpenter family history from The Demott Family pages that were available. In those pages he has Town Clerk John's brother Robert as having sons Henry and Richard. These two names tally with material I found on Carpenters in the Bristol Bay area. Henry was a well connected Bristol merchant and Richard served the the king's brother Thomas of Lancaster. Other documents I found connect Robert to Gloustershire. In the book City of London School Robert is mentioned as checking the fish weirs on the Thames. This Robert seems more likely the son of Thomas Carpenter of Kingston-on-Thames (son of Roger). This Robert was also a Cinque Port official. This groupof Carpenters has never garined the attention of previous researchers. Roger seems the most likely father of Richard the father of John the Town Clerk. Thus it seems to me that it was Robert the Town Clerk's brother that extended the family into the Bristol Bay area. The Bishop Carpenter must have been more closely connected to the original London group. Robert's son or grandson? In 1433 he ends his position as king's clerk, a younger cleric's position. Born about 1410? Brother of Richard and Henry. Bishop John was also the real conduit of money to the Lancasters. Has to be merchant money. Who was Robert and who was Bishop John? BC

MORE: Another possible child named Laurence? Folio ccxxi b. Masters of Misteries sworn. Tapicers : William Bullok, Thomas Besowthe, John Piryell, and John Flesshe sworn 4 Oct., 6 Henry V. [A.D. 1418], to well and faithfully govern the said mistery and present any defects they may find to the Mayor and Aldermen or to the Chamberlain of the City for the time being. ... "Fullurs" :John Venne, Laurence Carpenter similarly sworn 9 Dec. From: 'Folios ccxxi - ccxxxi: Nov 1418 - ', Calendar of letter-books of the city of London: I: 1400-1422 (1909), pp. 206-219. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=33694 Date accessed: 22 April 2009.

MORE: Folio ccxliii. The above ordinance was passed by the Mayor and Aldermen, and at the instance of all persons using the mistery of Brewers within the City and suburbs, whose names were submitted to the Court on a roll of paper by the Masters, Wardens, and other good folk of the Mistery. The Names of Brewers within the Liberties of the City of London. Folio ccxliii b. Folio ccxliv. ... Robert Carpenter,... Piers Carpenter ... From: 'Folios ccxli - ccl: Dec 1419 - ', Calendar of letter-books of the city of London: I: 1400-1422 (1909), pp. 231-243. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=33696 Date accessed: 22 April 2009.

MORE: Another possible descendant or relative - Hugh. (1439) Inasmuch as Johanna, wife of Hugh Carpenter, was indicted before Stephen Broun, the Mayor, and Aldermen of divers acts provoking to public immorality, and was thereof convicted, it is adjudged by the Mayor and Aldermen that she be put on the pillory two days for an hour, and that proclamation be made of the reason thereof. [No date]. Folio ccxc. Inasmuch as Hugh Carpenter was similarly indicted and convicted, it is adjudged that he be put on the pillory for an hour, proclamation ut supra. [No date].

From: 'Folios cclxxxvi - ccxci: Convictions for immorality, 1400-1439', Calendar of letter-books of the city of London: I: 1400-1422 (1909), pp. 273-287. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=33701 Date accessed: 22 April 2009.