Family talk:William Fobes and Elizabeth Southworth (1)
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This is a doubtful marriage [9 March 2011]

Source:Mayflower Descendant, p. 42:9 has an article by Robert S. Wakefield (contributor to the Source:General Society of Mayflower Descendants. Mayflower Families through Five Generations series) that makes a circumstantial/best fit case that Elizabeth Southworth did not marry William Fobes. It was written as response to an article in MD 41:141 which asserted that Elizabeth Southworth was his first wife.

He believes Elizabeth Southworth m. Bristol 12 May 1685 to Samuel Gallup, obeying her father's last wishes. (See Source:Arnold, James N. Vital Record of Rhode Island, 1636–1850). He can find no other candidate for this recorded marriage.

He analyzes various activities (William "Vobes" elected Constable of Duxbury 1684, described as "of Duxbury" when divided father's estate in 1684, "of Bridgewater" when granted land in Little Compton in 1685) to suggest that William Fobes was probably still living in Duxbury at the time of his supposed marriage in Little Compton to Elizabeth Southworth, that he probably married Martha (Pabodie) Seabury there, and probably had his first two children with her, Elizabeth and Constant, there.

The pairing of William Fobes and Elizabeth Southworth is probably based solely on the assertion that two alleged children of William Fobes were born before he married Martha. It is doubtful that either belong to him.

The alleged daughter Phebe b. 1679 is almost surely a confusion with Joseph Seabury's wife Phebe. Somebody probably didn't realize that Joseph Seabury was William's step-son (son-in-law in the colonial usage) in his own right and therefore assumed incorrectly that Joseph's wife, Phebe (--) Smith, was William's daughter, since Joseph is called his son-in-law. To support this, Wakefield points out she was alive, but was not explicitly named in William's will when other married daughters were.

The other alleged daughter is Martha b. 1681. Wakefield says most of the Little Compton vital records were created by a town clerk named Otis Wilbur around 1850 (i.e., long after the fact) and says he would be "a strong contender for the title of world's worst genealogist". He alleges that he confused Martha's daughter by her first marriage, Martha Seabury, when giving William Fobes a daughter named Martha b. 1681, and creating a myth of two daughters, Martha Fobes and Martha Seabury. This has been perpetuated in various sources like Source:Alden, Mrs. Charles L. Elizabeth (Alden) Pabodie and Descendants to say on p. 11 that Martha Fobes (apparently daughter of William Fobes and Elizabeth Southworth) m. Josiah Sawyer, and then on p. 37 that Martha Seabury (daughter of Martha (Pabodie) Seabury by her first husband) married Josiah Sawyer. --Jrich 21:31, 4 November 2009 (EST)

What a much better theory than the idea that Phebe Fobes marries her step-brother, Joseph Seabury! I have never been very happy with the consequences of these assumptions you describe, tho I think I may now have to recreate some assumed lineages in my family tree... Thanks for the insight. I'll work on recreating the alternative lineages.

Thanks!--Brenda (kennebec1) 23:36, 4 November 2009 (EST)

In the case of daughter Martha who married Josiah Sawyer, it is nearly impossible to figure things out without Wakefield's theory. Mrs. Alden posits two Josiah and Martha Sawyer families with nearly identical children because the family is recorded in Tiverton and also Little Compton. (though this happens to other families too, like the Pearces). The records in Tiverton give the births precisely whereas the Little Compton records just give a year, strongly suggesting the Little Compton version is an after-the-fact recording (perhaps even derived generations later by Otis Wilbur from other facts, since there are inaccuracies and holes in the data) and Tiverton are the more reliable.
The following table attempts to compare what Mrs. Alden says (everything except what is in parentheses), compared to LC=Little Compton records, T=Tiverton records, and ChLC=Church of Little Compton records.
Martha Fobes m. 1710LC (as Isaiah) Josiah Sawyer Martha Seabury m. 1705T Josiah Sawyer
John b. 1711LC John b. 20 Feb 1707T
Hannah b. 27 Nov 1710T
Mercy b. 28 Jan 1711/12T
Mary b. May 1715LC Mary b. 28 Aug 1714T bp. 24 Jul 1715ChLC
Abigail b. 1717LC Abigail b. 28 Oct 1716T bp. 1 Jun 1720 (1 Jun 1718ChLC)
Priscilla b. 1719LC Priscilla bp. 1719
Josiah b. 1728 (May 1725LC) Josiah bp. 11 Jul 1725ChLC

If you assume the Little Compton records were compiled by a bad genealogist who did not realize the Tiverton records existed, then it is entirely believable that these are the same family. E.g., in two cases, a baptism at the Little Compton Church in July, appears to have generated an assumed birth in the May prior, etc., the kind of bad genealogy I see on the Internet all the time. --Jrich 09:49, 5 November 2009 (EST)

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