User talk:DMaxwell

For talk before 2015 see: User:DMaxwell/talk page archive 2012-3 and User:DMaxwell/Talk_page_archive_2014


New categories needed [23 January 2015]

Hello Daniel ! Please, see here ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 17:38, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

What do we usually do with Spam? [27 February 2015]

Hi Daniel. I came across this Spam-like page and was wondering if you might know if there is a protocol in place for apparent spam. I thought that you were one of the ones involved in the deleting part of the Speedy Delete process, so you might know. Does anyone ever add an SD template to an article - and do you think we should in this case? Thanks, --Cos1776 14:01, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

This guide under "Blocking spammers" outlines how users with admin rights can delete the pages with spam and block the users. For those without admin rights, I think it makes sense to tag them with a SD template with a summary mentioning the page is spam. I'll go ahead and delete the above page and block that user. --Jennifer (JBS66) 20:41, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, I just now saw this. For some reason I wasn't notified. Usually JBS or Amelia has handeled spammers so I haven't had to get involved before. Daniel Maxwell 23:46, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Speedy Delete added to page [4 March 2015]

Daniel, I noticed you added a speedy delete notice on the family page associated with the current WeRelate Featured Page. The specific person page of the living person is "Living Lorig", cleary in compliance with the WeRelate policy, what is your issue with the Family Page?

Please advise.

Thanks.--Delijim 19:29, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

I don't believe it is in compliance with the policy. If it were, there would be no reason to have it named 'living'. If that man's wife is notable, and our definition of that *usually* is similar to that of wikipedia's, then you could have her under her actual name. But has it been established that the woman is notable in of herself? Could she justify a Wikipedia page, or biography? The main difference I can see WR having with Wikipedia on notability is the definition of a public figure. Wikipedia doesn't consider Governor's spouses notable most of the time, but they are arguably are, being the 'first lady' of the state. Aside for that small difference, I mainly concur with their definition. We're trying to eliminate Living pages here on WR, in fact I've spent several years doing this, but there is still alot of work to do. We shouldn't be creating more of them. So pages like hers need to be justified (ie proven that she is notable in her own right) or deleted. The given exception on the WR page for Livings is 'notable' not 'married to a notable'. This had nothing to do with it being on the featured page, I was going through livings that had most recently been edited and I saw it. If you think I am wrong, and the wife would quality as a public figure (though I doubt she would), then she should be renamed to her actual name.Daniel Maxwell 19:37, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Daniel, we cannot remove ALL pages with a "Living" designation without also removing family pages where some persons that are attached have died and some may still be living. Deleting those family pages would create "orphan pages" that would be un-linked, which would create a different problem. The person in this instance is not "noteworthy" or "famous", except within her own family, but she is still living (although in her 90's, and as such still deserves to be linked to her husband on their family page and listed as "Living" on her current Person page (in accordance with WeRelate Policy) until she dies. As a long-time Administrator here, I'd think you'd give a little leeway in cases like this versus a strict interpretation. I'm sure you have many more pages to work on than this one.

Thanks and best regards,


The policy that Daniel is referring to about living people can be found here. It follows how Dallan has programmed GEDCOM imports to behave. If a family has a living spouse and all living children, a family page is not created for them, and the living spouse and living children are not imported. As that help page mentions, "If you would like to link pages to others that would otherwise be linked through living people (in-laws with living children, for example), do so by creating direct links in the body of the pages." --Jennifer (JBS66) 00:00, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

[11 March 2015]


Under "My own ancestry" you mention Berselem, Staffordshire. The place is Burslem ([[Place:Burslem, Staffordshire, England]]). Since 1910 it has been part of the city of Stoke-on-Trent.

Regards--Goldenoldie 15:05, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, though that isn't the problem with linking the families. If Levi Sawyer was called 'Joseph Sawyer' in England, I could find no proof of it. Basically I am not willing to do anything more on it until I could prove that link, which I cannot. I couldn't find him in the 1841 census, or 1851, nor anyone close to him. In fact he is ghostlike in the US too; he only appears on the 1860 census, and then never again, despite dying in the 1890s. I suspect this is because he was a polygamist, but I don't know for sure. Still though, I was able to find more for his supposed Sawyer family in England than I was with my Gloucester ancestry, which thanks to lack of scanned records, I could do almost nothing. Daniel Maxwell 15:10, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

I think Gloucestershire coverage has improved over the years. Originally family historians (particularly of the LDS persuasion--I'm not one either) had some trouble persuading the bishop, but times have moved on. Read through the GENUKI notes, or what I have gleaned from them on WR place pages. Gloucestershire place pages only got so far done. Bristol moved out and so did some of the northern edges, and I left too <smile>.--Goldenoldie 17:18, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Maybe, but the old indexes have almost nil and as far as I know, you still have to do parish searches 'the old fashioned way' ie being there in person or having an agent and trusting in his ability to transcribe them accurately. Hopefully, someday, something will happen with Gloucester like it did with the Devon records on Findmypast - a nearly complete selection of them INDEXED no less with just a few missing, and several of which were never scanned by the LDS at all. I was able to take my Devon Lee line and expand it by several generations overnight. Daniel Maxwell 17:27, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

GedCom Dumper [12 May 2015]

The GedCom dumper we were discussing the other day...? Be thankful for what little we got. Their full tree contains over 380,000 names, but that tree they keep updated it seems. I am working through the names though, bit by bit.--khaentlahn 22:10, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Although it isn't up to me, that tree is so bad I think it would be better to just delete it all. Almost no sources, very generic places (death place: 'PA' and no other info), many missing dates, etc, etc. It's too bad that it's so large we can't. To make it worse, it seems like he just copied the trees of a ton of unrelated Ohio families, so finding people interesting in cleaning it up would be a task. Daniel Maxwell 23:59, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
Daniel, you wrote "It's too bad that it's so large we can't [delete it?]" How does its size affect whether or not it can be deleted? Returning after a long absence and trying to reorient myself, Jillaine 10:14, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Because with the larger it is, the more likely it is to have crossover with other people's trees. I don't think I have ever seen a tree with 1000+ people in it that didn't have overlap with other user's work. This is why the site now limits the size of the trees you can upload - when this site started, there was none, and in fact I have found a couple trees larger than 'JonJays' that are just as bad. Daniel Maxwell 23:37, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Daniel re: What type of person... [5 June 2015]

Thanks for your response re: 'What type of...'. I admit I still bristle a little when the topic of restricting new users comes up, and someone has 'a way with words' that pushes a few of my librarian buttons. Your explanation appeases me; sincerely hope 'new user' guidelines is a friendly process. Neal --SkippyG 02:08, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Neal, new users who go and make radical changes are the main thing I want to prevent. Just a few months ago, I had a newbie 'fix' a person whose wife's last name was unknown. He renamed her to the 'Ancestry/OneWorldTree' answer that had no support. Right now it is an annoyance, but if we had double the number of members it could become a real problem. All of us started out as learners; some people want to learn (the user who I was giving an example as someone who improved was 'FranklySpeaking', who was at first rather - hasty), and others never do. I argued with a woman once until I was blue in the face that the fact that she had wrong parentage for someone, showed her the source for why and how it was wrong, but I kept being told that it 'conflicted with her data' (ie what she copied). Maybe if we had a grading system, it would be 'Pass' and 'Fail'. The latter type of user we wouldn't want anywhere near a serious genealogical site if it involves editing other's data, especially pre-census. Daniel Maxwell 02:15, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Daniel for your recent comments concerning my observation of User:Persisto leaving because of edits made to his pages. The fact that he left 5 years ago makes no change to my concern about loosing folks who could have added a lot but left frustrated. If you would read through his user talk page you can 'hear' this professional genealogist struggle with the wiki environment. Several folks did try to help him but his frustration level couldn't be overcome. He admits he tried to do too much too soon. He was an eager author willing to share; I was just looking for some way to keep folks like this. --janiejac 16:43, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Much has changed in that time span, and your initial post made it seem as though it just happened last week, or that we have a wave of people leaving. People are not going to be able to control person or family pages here. I went through his talk pages, and it appears that he was mainly having some (somewhat minor) disputes with a couple of users. I sympathize with wanting accurate information to appear in public, but that is why we have talk pages and admins - to sort out this information and so only accurate information appears. Page ownership is not the answer. As I said, a number of changes have happened since he last edited; I think we have more admins and users who have a better sense of good sources, and we have many more people doing clean up. We also have tags for things like 'Speculative parents' and other possible but not proven links to various people. I also admit that although we have excellent coverage in a few areas - colonial New England, Dutch genealogy, and several others, but our coverage of early Virginia families is weak and much of it is poorly sourced. That seems to be his primary interest. Daniel Maxwell 21:57, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Thavies Inn [18 May 2015]

Hi Daniel

Thanks for getting rid of Thavies Inn. There's a whole lot of changes I want to make to London. One is to merge all references to the Inns of Court together. If we were exclusively into legal history, we would want all the inns as separate entities, but that is really OTT for our purposes.

I am working through the outside boroughs and will do the City of London last, after I get the rest of the clutter out of Greater London and London.

My plan includes renaming early parishes or churches with the name of the borough in which they were located preceding the dedicatory name of the church, i.e. Southwark St. Saviour, Stepney St. Mary. This moves them back to a three-tier name and they ought to be more easier to find that way. I must pass this on to the Place Portal people. I hope they will understand.

The next problem place within WR is [[Place:Braintree, Essex, England|Braintree]] which, no matter what I do (since I can't exactly delete it), persists in showing up as an inclusion within Braintree Rural District. Because it was relatively urban, it was never in [[Place:Braintree Rural, Essex, England|Braintree Rural District]], but some gremlin in the system keeps leaving it there.

/cheers, Pat aka --Goldenoldie 07:16, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Help with French records again [31 May 2015]

Markus, I am again in need for some help with a French speaker. The other French line of mine, the very rare name of Manautou, has been recently confirmed to originate in the parish of Arbus (though my ancestors was born in Strasbourg during the Wars, where his father was stationed but the birth record of a sister says he comes from there). I was looking at Arbus's parish records online and I could not find the father, Bernard Manautou, supposed to have been born there in 1765, which comes from another source, (1765's records are damaged but most are readable). I wouldn't need deep research, but I at least want to confirm the presence of that family there.--Daniel Maxwell 01:51, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

   Nevermind. I found the Bernard Manautou baptism. But I could use some help again with this set of French records, if you're up to it. Daniel Maxwell 02:00, 10 May 2015 (UTC) 
It's OK, Daniel ! I do it in this week ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 06:23, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
I find no "Arbus's parish" near Strasbourg or in département Bas-Rhin. Do you mean Arbus, here, in South of France ? ---> - Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 06:49, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
You misread what I said there. Emile Manautou was born in Strasbourg (I have his and his sister's birth record), but his father came originally from Arbus, which is yes, in southwest France. I also found his father's baptism, and his parents marriage record. Bernard Manautou was a military officer during the Revolution, so in this period he moved alot. I found his marriage record to Jeanne-Renee Bilard in Nantes as well, and her baptism there in 1766. I can give you some image numbers if it will help; his parents marriage record is one I would like to know all the names on. Daniel Maxwell 09:24, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
On the Department collection from Arbus's department here:!{"content":["FRAD064003_IR0002_ARBUS10",false,""]} - his parents marriage is on image 101 of 320.
Hello, Daniel !
1) You wrote Person:Émile Manautou (1), born 17 Aug 1802. I can not find this birth record on the site ... 17 August 1802 is "29 Thermidor An X"
2) Where (and when) is the birth record of his sister ?
3) Parents married in Nantes ? When ? Where is the record, please ?
4) It's ok for your link ---> image 101 in Arbus
Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 07:55, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
I found them all previously, but the txt file where I wrote down the location of the ones in Strasbourg I seem to have deleted. I found Emile's again - he is in the final year X births book (on the site, go to 'X', then the last one labeled just 'N' and he is listed in the index of it - he is birth 1919 in that book - image 49 of 132, top left.
I also have found 1) The death record of Suzanne de Mirande Manautou 2) the death record of the daughter of Bernard born in Starsbourg (they returned to Nantes and have several more children) and along with the marriage record of Bernard and Jeanne-Renee, the birth record of their first, illegitimate child born a month before their marriage - where the registrar starts to write Bernard Manautou as the father and then crosses it out, so this first child was born 'Emile Billard'. The child is mentioned again during their marriage record where they wanted the registrar to rule on his legitimacy. I will get you page numbers shortly. Daniel Maxwell 14:45, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
The marriage between Bernard Manautou and Jeanne-Renee Bilard happened on 4 Messidor Year VI in Nantes. It is located here: Image 45 of 60. I found someone elses tree online who was working the Bilard family; using that info, I was able to find Jeanne-Renee's baptism but not her parents marriage. Daniel Maxwell 23:13, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Suzanne de Mirande Manuatou died on 3 Ventose Year XI, but for some reason I can't reach the Arbus website right now to give you a page number. Daniel Maxwell 23:41, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
I've moved alot of what I found here: I am still working on the Nantes record set and the ones at Strasbourg. Daniel Maxwell 00:58, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Refound Emile's sister COELINE MATHILDE was that born in Strasbourg (she later dies in Nantes). She was born in the year XI. Third and final 'N' book for 'An XI' birth number 1981, page 115 (image 121 of 138) Daniel Maxwell 01:24, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
You wrote : "Image 101 of 320 - JEAN JACQUES MANAUTOU AND SUZANNE MIRANDE MARRIAGE" ---> It's "Jean Pierre" and not "Jean Jacques" ! Please, see Person:Jean de Manautou (1) ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 15:41, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, a mistake I made in haste. I was confusing it with one of the siblings whose name was Jacques.Daniel Maxwell 15:58, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Lafon, born 1796 [16 June 2015]

Hello, Daniel ! Done for Person:Françoise Lafon (1) - Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 08:13, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks again Marc. That finishes off what we know about the Lafons. Could you not find the records in the Strasbourg archive, or did I not describe them well enough? It is just the two birth records. I couldn't remember if I gave you the other births/deaths I found in Nantes. Someone online in another tree posted the marriage date of Simon Bilard and Renee Cassard, but I couldn't find it in the books themselves (though I did find Jeanne-Renee's baptism, and two of her sisters). I don't want to overstay my welcome with you, but if you want me to point out the locations of these records, I am happy to do it. Daniel Maxwell 00:22, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Here are the records in the Civil records of Nantes that I have found. More to look at in the Catholic records of that city in the future. I hope you can help me. Children of Bernard that I have found in Nantes:
1. Emile Bilard (natural) - Nantes, Naissance an 6, Section Union et Scevola, image 114 and 115 of 196 - Bernard Manautou started to be described as father, then crossed out. He appears to have been legitimized, and his death is :also record in Nantes as Emile Manautou (before the birth of my ancestor with that name so there is no conflict). Death record is located at Deces, an 9 - 9eme, 10eme, Section Union Image 165 of 219
2. Eugene Manautou - Nantes, an 7 Section Union et, image 86 of 179
3. Emile Manautou (born in Strasbourg)
4. Celina Matilhide (born in Strasbourg) - dead at Nantes, located at Deces - an 12 - 3eme Division - Image 33 of 199
5. Jean-Alexandre Manautou - Nantes, Naissance 1808 - 2eme Division - image 140 of 158 - I also found him listed in the death index,
but I couldnt understand where it was saying it was located - it says '128 N (or V) 5,6. 1827.
Also found what I believe is the death record of Jeanne-Renee Bilard de Manautou - I would really like to know what this record says. it is at Deces 1838, 5eme Canton, Image 39 of 53 Daniel Maxwell 04:05, 4 June :2015 (UTC)
The two Strasbourgh records - Celina Manautou birth - Image 121 of 138 and Emile Manautou Birth - Image 49 of 132
That is all I have for now. Daniel Maxwell 07:40, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Great news - found the death record of Bernard de Manautou. It was listed under 'D' for 'De' rather than 'M' for 'Manautou'. It is located at deces - 1832 - 1er, 2eme Cantons, image 142 of 152.
Fine ! But I am searching (without success) the death record of Jean Jules Alexandre Manautou ... 1827, ok but not so easy ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 10:57, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
I don't understand the index's listing system. You would think that that number would refer to a page number, but it doesn't. I was pulling my hair out earlier trying to find the marriage record of Simon Bilard and Renee Cassard in Nantes earlier because of the same strange numbering system. The entries themselves aren't numbered, so I don't know what it refers to! Daniel Maxwell 11:00, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Leave the annoying searches to me - I dont want to make this too much trouble for you. I will search the entire 1827 year if I have to find him. Daniel Maxwell 11:06, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
FOUND HIM! Jean Manautou is at Image 130 of 135 in Deces 1827 5eme, 6eme. Daniel Maxwell 11:12, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
1) Thank you ! This record is very interesting !
2) The death table give "128" ... probably as page of the register. But the record is on page "130" as written in the up corner on the right. ---> Errors between tables and registers are really something "classical" ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 14:35, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes, as I said, the same problem exists with the Simon Bilard marriage; easily findable in the index for 1764, cannot find it at all in the 1764 marriage book! It was supposed to have happened in August of 1764. I think I also found Simon Bilard's death, but again, a number issue exists there too. Daniel Maxwell 14:43, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Before writing the new elements in his WR-page Person:Jean Manautou (1), I will find if his mother resided alone or with one of her chidren before her death, for example census 1836. Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 14:48, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Bad luck ! No census on line before 1841 ... Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 15:02, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Hello Daniel ! For this marriage Family:Simon Bilard and Renée Cassard (1) ... you give no parish and no "cote" (page number, register) ! I am searching for more as 30 minutes ! Amicalement - Marc ROUSSEL - --Markus3 06:26, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Markus, I have the page numbers, but I didn't want to overdo it because there are still Manautou births/records in Nantes that need to be looked at! I will post them tonight, I have the page numbers for that marriage and the baptisms of 4 of their children (and one death). Daniel Maxwell 06:27, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Right now I am having difficulty with another record - that of the baptism of Simon Bilard in 1735 in Nantes. I see him listed in the index, but the numbering system the index gives makes no sense, and the book itself is hard to read! It gives numbers over 100, but the entries aren't numbered, and the book only goes to about page 45! French records of this era are frustrating! Daniel Maxwell 06:30, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Bilard records thus far: 1. Bilard-Cassard marriage - Nantes - Saint-Nicolas - B - 1764 - Image 159 of 290 2. Francoise Clare Billard baptism Nantes - Saint-Nicholas - B - 1765 - Image 163 of 299 3. Francoise Clare Billard burial - Nantes - Saint-Nicholas - B - 1767 - Image 54 of 293 4. Renee Victoria Bilard baptism - Nantes - Saint-Nicholas - B - 1776 - Image 268 of 293 5. ALexis Paul Bilard baptism - Nantes - Saint Nicholas - B - 1778 - Image 174 of 288 6. Jeanne-Renne Bilard baptism - Nantes Saint-Saturnin B- 1766 Image 35 of 36 (note different church). For the Simon Bilard baptism, check the 1735 index book for Saint-Nicholas.Daniel Maxwell 06:33, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Renee Cassard baptism - Nantes Saint-Saturnin B - 1745 Image 21 of 25 Also found a sister, Theresa. Moving quickly! Daniel Maxwell 08:56, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Julien Cassard and Francoise Mainguy (or Mingui?) marriage - Nantes Saint-Saturning B - 1740, Image 18 of 32. I've also found 5 kids so far. Daniel Maxwell 09:40, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Sorry I didn't give you the other Cassard baptisms at first - I wanted to find them all! I am checking from 1740 to 1764, and then I will go further - here are the children in order 1. Saint-Saturnin B - 1741 Image 18 of 31 Julien Cassard 2. Saint-Saturnin B - 1743 Image 21 of 26 - Marie-Francoise 3.Saint-Saturnin B - 1744 Image 24 of 26 - Francois-Josef Cassard 4. Renee (you know about her) 5. Saint-Saturnin B - 1746 Image 28 of 32 - Therese Cassard Daniel Maxwell 18:35, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for looking at the records again. What we have found for BERNARD's children is basically done except for 3 records - 1. illegitimate first son Emile Bilard (legitimized as Emile Manautou after their marriage)'s birth 2. Emile Bilard/Manautou's death (last record in Nantes before they go to Strasbourg for several years) 3. Celina Mathilde Manautou's death. All of these things happen in Nantes. I was taking a break before so I could create proper sources/repositories for the French archives before I added more material. Daniel Maxwell 08:55, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
Also forgot to mention - I found the marriage record of BERNARD's younger brother JEAN (second son by that name). In it, both parents are still living and it gives their ages. I figure it might help in pinpointing which Jean de Manautou baptism in Arbus is actually Jean-Pierre's, as well as if the strange age given at the mother Suzanne's death is accurate. Daniel Maxwell 09:02, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
Jean Manautou marriage is located in Arbus - Collection departmentale Mariages 1793 - 1806, Image 12 of 34. This would seem to help with the birth dates of the parents.Daniel Maxwell 11:56, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
If Jean is born about 1764, then his baptism is almost certainly the one in the Arbus Department collection, image 167 of 320.Daniel Maxwell 15:57, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Bas-Rhin [14 June 2015]

Hi Daniel,

Sounds good with the Bas-Rhin archives.--JeffreyRLehrer 23:40, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Hugo Freer (20) page [24 July 2015]

Hi Daniel, I'm working on the Hugo Freer (20) page. In absence of being able to retrieve a book [title in French] of records for the Reformed French Church in Mannheim, Germany (kept by Ancestry), I'm trying to cite The Low-Freer Huguenot Society [sic] website, until I can quote the original records. Could you (or someone you recommend) glance at Hugo's page and advise ? The website gives a profile of Hugo, and contains a page quoting vitals for Hugo's 2 marriages, and the birth/baptisms for the 6 children born in Mannheim. No rush by the way. Neal --SkippyG 19:17, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Looks like a good start? I am not sure what you're asking. Although I have French ancestry, and I am still new to French primary sources, but Freer's ancestry is covered by German records, and I have very little German ancestry, and have never worked with German records overseas. I will help you with what I can but I guess I need to understand the question a bit better. Daniel Maxwell 04:40, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Hi Daniel, For now, I need to know how to cite a website (Huguenot Society of New Paltz). Nothing specific in Tutorials. Create a My Source ? That doesn't seem right. Maybe I'll survey some pages to see what someone has done.... --SkippyG 05:54, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't cite the website. I'd cite what the website is citing. Are they using the parish records? Copy what they are citing and point it to the source for the parish books and are (probably) on WR. I added some French parish records, if you need some help with this I can do so. Daniel Maxwell 05:56, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Daniel. For now, I placed a "Citation Only" description as source with links to 3 relevant web pages. The website only states "from Reformed French Church of Mannheim" records beginning in 1650s. As its 2:30 AM here, I'll tackle this tomorrow; I'll let you know when I've finished a citation as you've advised. G'night. Neal --SkippyG 06:40, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

FYI re: Hugo Freer [26 July 2015]

Just an FYI re: Hugo FREER (20), patentee. I've reached a temporary impasse: citing birth, marriage dates depends on finding the 2nd edition of Ruth Heidgerd's book on Hugo Freer & family. Everything online is 1st edition and unaccessible. I've emailed the Freer-Low Huguenot Society of New Paltz to see if the Mannheim, Ger., Ref. French Church copies are still housed in their library, but as yet no reply; however, I've learned that the Society has gone into semi-hibernation since 2010 and is now only minimally monitored. For now, all the dates from Mannheim must remain uncited (darn !).

I want to try to find birth/baptism records for Hugo FREER and his two wives. I didn't see anything in WR database, unless I'm overlooking something. Any ideas: Places: 1. Herly, Pas-de-Calais, France. 2. Douai, Nord, France and 3. Bruyelle, Hainaut, Belgium (I don't expect help for this one) Fishing...regards..Neal --SkippyG 19:36, 26 July 2015 (UTC)