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Ivo's parents [5 August 2013]
I am rearranging this line somewhat, making Ivo the son of Robert son of Anschetil, as on Cawley's Medieval Lands site and in David Crouch's book The Beaumont Twins: The Roots and Branches of Power in the Twelfth Century. As always, if anyone has any better cites, feel free to amend this.--Werebear 19:03, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
- Hmm.... The parents have been switched back, but no explanation or sources given. I am curious. What are the sources for putting Ivo with these parents? Is there something more recent/reliable than Cawley and Crouch? --Werebear 10:56, 4 August 2013 (EDT)
I think I made that change. Sorry about not listing sources. I know I need to get better about that. There was a page for Ivo as son of Robert and a page for Ivo as son of William. Both had the same birth date listed - about 1130, so I thought they were duplicates. Every online genealogy I've found for this family has Ivo as son of William and if the birth date is correct, then he couldn't be the son of Robert since he died before that date. I only have access to what I find online. I used http://fabpedigree.com/s032/f008775.htm and other on line trees. I don't know how reliable they are, but I haven't seen a listing for a son Ivo for Robert. Maybe there were two Ivo Harcourts, William's son and brother. What parents and birth date does your source list?--Tammyhensel 16:44, 4 August 2013 (EDT)
- The sources I am talking about are listed in the Reference section, with links so you can go there and check them out for yourself. Cawley gives Robert tentatively, noting that original sources confirm that Rohese was the mother of Albreda, for example, but do not name her husband, who might have been one of Robert's brothers. (The sources he cites for this are Dugdale Monasticon VI, Barnwell Priory, Cambridgeshire, II, and De Morte Pagani Peverell, pp. 86-7.) Crouch, a serious historian, seems to give Robert as definitely the father in his book, published by Cambridge University Press in the 1980s. I have no independent opinion on the matter, and, as I said above, am interested in hearing about evidence either for or against. We are all just looking for the truth, after all.
- Sources, ultimately original sources, are everything in genealogy. (Otherwise, it is just making **** up.) Fabpedigree doesn't give sources, and is worthless as a cite, in my opinion, although it can be valuable in pointing out a direction for research. In its defense, Jamie Allen (the author), points this out himself (herself?) on its homepage. Quote: "PLEASE do not treat the information in this genealogy as authoritative. Just use it for hints, and research using some of the more reputable genealogical websites which I consulted."
- I think the problems with birth dates are not real problems, unless the birth dates have sources. Most birth dates for medieval people on the internet, including on Werelate, were just made up by some idiot, who didn't want to have a blank space in his database. Unless there is a source given, or a rationale for the estimate, I wouldn't pay much attention to them.--Werebear 01:53, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
Okay, I found the link to Cawley. Thanks. Do whatever you think best with the parents for this person. I think I'm going to quit merging pages. I always seem to mess it up somehow.--Tammyhensel 17:44, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
- Thanks. I took me a while before I got comfortable with merging. I am sure I still mess up sometimes. I appreciate that you are putting in an effort to improve the site.--Werebear 21:52, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
- By the way, William was given as the father of Ivo in some 19th century peerages. It is not clear to me what this was based on, since as far as I can see, original sources are not given, but that is probably where the online trees are getting this from. I generally trust Cawley and Crouch more than Burke and Collins, but with no clear original source confirming the relationship, I wouldn't bet my house on anything.--Werebear 22:04, 5 August 2013 (EDT)
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