Family talk:Isaac Keen and Lydia Jones (1)

How do you know they are wrong? [19 August 2010]

In regards to the comment added to source 1: "Congo Church Records 1727-1865 VR are wrong.", could you please elaborate?

Source:Briggs, Lloyd Vernon. History and Records of the First Congregational Church, Hanover, Mass., 1727-1865, p. 88, under year 1732-1733, it says "November 16 Isaac Keen of Pembroke and Lydia Jones of Hanover". This being back when the year started March 25, January 1-March 24 would be considered 1732, while dates after March 25 would be 1733. Therefore this seems to indicate the marriage date 16 Nov 1733.

I assume this is the date believed to be wrong. I assume, since no explanation was provided, that the reason for thinking so, is because their son Lemuel is b. 23 Jul 1734 (Source:Pembroke, Plymouth, Massachusetts, United States. Vital Records of Pembroke, Massachusetts, to Year 1850, p. 130), which is only 8 months after the alleged marriage date. So assuming Isaac and Lydia followed the rules, the marriage must have been earlier? Or did you actually view the original handwritten church records and discover that the compiler mis-transcribed them?

There are reasons for believing the records. First, the church records are in chronological order. Generally, there is less chance of such dates getting the wrong year, because they are recorded as they were done, and not rearranged by the compiler (as opposed to collections that have been alphabetized, for example). Second, it seems to be accepted as-is by Source:General Society of Mayflower Descendants. Mayflower Families through Five Generations Vol. 18, Part 2, p. 100.

Another problem with assuming the records are wrong is the birth of Isaac's son Simeon. However, as the following discussion will show, the records are self-contradictory in multiple ways, suggesting more than one error. So we end up having a hard time finding any concrete fact that we can use as a solid anchor.

Source:Pembroke, Plymouth, Massachusetts, United States. Vital Records of Pembroke, Massachusetts, to Year 1850, p. 134, says "Keene, Simeon, ch. Isaac and Deborah (Dwelley), Apr. 23, 1733. P.R.44". Now PR44 is "Private record, from a Keen family record, now in the possession of Miss Carrie Randall of West Duxbury". It is referenced by the VR on several of Isaac's other children - in addition to the official town record - but in Simeon's case, it appears to be the sole source. Also, "Hezekiah Keen's Account Book, with Family Records", Source:Mayflower Descendant, p. 28:6, says "Isaac Keen mared with Debrah Dwelley and had 1 Son by hir who is Semeon". Hezekiah was Isaac's brother. He did not mention Isaac's second or third wife or any other children. However, his account appears to be independent of the one called PR44, since Hezekiah did not give the birth date. So we have two primary sources saying that Deborah was Simeon's mother and one places his birth in 1733. If this is so, then Isaac could not have married Lydia before 1733.

However, Source:Pembroke, Plymouth, Massachusetts, United States. Vital Records of Pembroke, Massachusetts, to Year 1850, p. 422, has the following death record: "Keene, Derah [?], w. Isaac, Apr. 1, 1729, a. 26. G.R.1". GR1 says this is a gravestone in Pembroke Centre Cemetery. Source:Mayflower Descendant, p. 10:99, "Gravestone Records from the Cemetery at Pembroke Centre, Mass.", reports the name on this gravestone as Deborah. So, if this is correct, the possibilities are Deborah was not Simeon's mother, or the birth date for Simeon is wrong, or else the first Simeon died and Isaac has a second son named Simeon with his new wife Lydia, or Isaac had two wives both named Deborah prior to marrying Lydia in 1733.

Most likely Simeon's birth date is incorrect. Simeon Keen of Pembroke m. Lydia Stephens in Marshfield in 1751 (born by 1730 to be of legal age). The death of Simeon in 1790 in his 66th year, and the death of Lydia in 1797, are both recorded in Vital Records of Marshfield. This suggests his birthdate was about 1725, probably about a year after his father's marriage to Deborah Dwelly on 17 Feb 1724/25. This is consistent with Deborah's death in 1729. --Jrich 10:50, 19 August 2010 (EDT)

There are other complications. Source:Pembroke, Plymouth, Massachusetts, United States. Vital Records of Pembroke, Massachusetts, to Year 1850, p. 303, has the marriage of another Isaac Keen of Pembroke: "Keen, Isaac and Abigail Booth, Aug. 30, 1726." This is the Isaac Keen, b. Pembroke 1696 to John and Rebecca (Barker) Keen. Their only child in the records is a daughter Abigail b. 1743, but they are fined for fornication in Plymouth Courts in 1728. (MD, p. 41:135. Usually this was charged for having a child less than 7 months after marrying.) Abigail, called the wife of Isaac and mother of Abigail, d. 1774. Who is the child from 1728?

Our Isaac, who married Deborah Dwelly, then Lydia Jones, and third, in 1773 Abigail Kent (who was alive in 1787, so not the Abigail who d. 1774) was known as Isaac Jr. in town records to distinguish him from his older cousin. The previously mentioned cemetery in Pembroke also has the grave of "Keen, Bradberry, daughter of Isaac, Jr., died 13 December 1729, aged 3 weeks" (see MD as cited above). Now this could not be the daughter of Deborah who is reported as dying 8 months before this. But also, there is not time to get married and go through a 9 month pregnancy.

The point of all this confusion being, with so much uncertainty, indicating a possible pattern of spotty record keeping, can we feel comfortable saying any particular record is wrong? --Jrich 00:58, 19 August 2010 (EDT)