Black German data supporting George Teater (1) article

This article contains information provided by User:Pariss, and originally included on the talk page for Person:George Teater (1). It has been transferred here in order to a) improve page load time for the talk page, and b) help with the organization of the information. See: Category:George Teater (1) Support Articles for other support articles.

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User:Paris's explanation of the German connection

To mind [User:Paris?] there seems to be no record in the memory of any elder Teater family memebers or their grandparents ever mentioning that they were Germans. Most old Teaters of Kentucky always said the were Scotch or Irish part Indian. The theme of the [German Kick ] seems to have started with the book the Teater Family of Kentucky. The myth was born, A German Dunker named John George Dieter a German Dunker whos father came of the Ship Allen born 1739. We know this is only a Myth that has been proven wrong. to concentrate on the real George Teater this would be way back to the turn of 1600s to early 1700 when the Black Germans came to Limerick Ireland with Welsh and Scotch.

First who were the Black Irish. there [were] 2 branchs one main branch was the 50 Thousand Irish Slaves sent by Cromwell to the Barbados. These Irish were worked housed with the African slaves which resulted in a large caste of Mulattos this branch does not apply to George Teater.

Here is a excerpt below from Bill Lathim a Samuel Teater descendent and Teter- Irish researcher.

A little background on the word "Melungeon" (LOTS of various spellings): That word was used by the "higher and mightier" in the more civilized parts of the "west" (west during that time frame which is today the east) to describe EXACTLY what Mr. Cruz mentions in his notes below. These were WESTERN EXPANSIONISTS (writ BIG) who were usually associated in some way either business or marriage/family with various Indian tribes some of which were later referred to as the "Civilized Tribes". These were people whose personalities demanded that they be "on the edge". Like Boone who Mr. Cruz mentions a relationship to, they were always ready to move on to wilder less developed areas anytime they could see another cabin not related to their family, hear the sound of an ax that wasn't theirs or smell the smoke of a neighbor's fire not related to their group. My reading about them gives the impression that these were the men and women who drove the western expansion of this nation in its earliest days although probably loners to at least some extent. A similarly spelled word was used in Irish folk lore (I say LORE because there is absolutely no proof) to describe African survivors of the Spanish armada's defeat at the hands of the British. It was said that the Spanish impressed sailors of north African descent. These sailors came from places like Algiers where many were excellent sailors and navigators.... supposedly. Most sailors in the British navy were not trained swimmers and I assume the same was true for Spanish sailors of that day. However, it was said that some of the Africans impressed into the Spanish navy could swim or otherwise made their way ashore. They supposedly lived in small enclaves isolated from the whites in Ireland and eventually intermarried with whites and eventually both immigrated because of not being a part of main stream Ireland and/or simply were assimilated. The word "Melugen" (various spellings) was used to mean Black (racially black or at least darker skinned) Irish. None of this has ever been proven and finding references to this tale is not easy but... the general idea of these people either wanting to, or being forced to live apart of the main stream society in Ireland is interesting when compared to the "Melungeons" mentioned by Mr. Cruz and others here in the states. I've always been curious if the two uses of such similar words had a similar origin--Parris 11:19, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

Some Background

A group known as the Black Germans settled in Limerick Ireland starting in the 1680s and 1690s. Early on the they used the German surnames Detlor, Tettler, Tettler, etc., which eventually morphed into into Tetter Tedder Tuder ect. They intermarried with the local Scotch Irish and Welsh who were also brought to Limerick to work on a Irish Lords plantation. In American Many of these families can be found living on the South Irish colony called the Crab Creek tract on the New River starting in the 1740s to include George Teater. The George Teater of Crab Creek, Washington Co Madison Kentucky Crab Creek is not in Washington County VA, nor is it in Madison County KY. is one of these Black Irish Black German People from Limerick Ireland.

[What is the basis of the above? What proof can be given that George Teater of Crab Creek was in fact a "Black German". While this is not at all unreasonable, given the fact that he lived in a community in SW VA, that included many German immigrants, direct evidence that he was a "Black German is needed. The implication of this is that he came from the Limerick area of Ireland. However, other members of the German community in SW VA are believed to have come to the Hudson River Valley from German, then moved to PA, and then down into Virginia.---that is, no Irish connection for them at all. I'm not convinced that those who make this connection have the right of it, as the source documentation that they cite in support of this view is itself inadequately documented. So I'm perfectly willing to believe that they (and perhaps George Teater, were really Black Germans from Limerick, but I'd like to see the supporting evidence for this. Q 09:09, 20 October 2008 (EDT)]

Many people with the name Tuder Tedder Tettler Teater are the same people but recorded in variations of spellings at different locatons and different times. These records will show that the George Teater who married Sarah Pearis of Crab Creek Washington Co Madison Kentucky Crab Creek is not in Washington County VA, nor is it in Madison County KY. While George teaters wife was definitely "Sarah", I have yet to see a good argument that shows her to be Sarah Pearis.was a Black German mixed with the Black Irish Scotch etc. The exact same people on the Crab Creek tract are all documented back in Limerick Ireland.

Almost all the familes on documents with George Teater , Peppers Ingles Tutons Parris Smeltzer Burks all came from the same place in Southern Ireland and settled on the South Irish colony called the Crab Creek Tract on the New River Area.

George and Jacob Teters Ireland Parliamentary Returns, Bundle 27 in Record Office, Dublin

  Freeholders living at Ballyngarane, County Limerick  Source needed.  It is not clear that these lists of registrations are ALL persons who registered on a particular date, or only selected individuals.  Because the source is not provided, this can not be checked.  Also, if the point is that many of these same persons also appear in Virginia in the Crab Creek area, then it is important to show which of them appear in Crab Creek.  It is also possible that even if the names are the same the persons identified may not be the same.  Evidence is needed to show whether the George Teater of Crab Creek is in fact the same "George Tettler" Who appears on one of these lists.  While the connection posited is an interesting idea, there's a need to prove it to be so for this idea to accepted.

  --Parris 15:44, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

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Here again this coud be a coincedence but the Smeltzers were living back in Limerick Ireland with several George Tettlers.--Parris 17:04, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

JOHN JACOB TETLOR/DETLOR

Jacob Deller, smith, age 22, Lutheran, alone in the 4th party of Palatines at St. Catherine's, June 11, 1709. John Jacob Tattle listed on 07/13/1715 as a Palatine family in Ireland and on 09/29/1720 as head of a famil on the Southwell Estate, name listed as Tettler.--Parris 17:46, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

Families of County Limerick, Ireland

Description: There are only a handful of books to help research families in Limerick and this one is the best produced to date. This book, 'Families of County Limerick, Ireland' was originally produced as part of the 32 volume 'Irish Families' series. It focuses exclusively on families found in County Limerick and includes families of all religions and backgrounds, including old Irish families and settler families from England, Scotland, Wales..... from the earliest times to the coming of the 20th century. It follows the master volume to the set, 'The Book of Irish Families, great & small" which contains information on families from all of Ireland. An outline of the history of the county as it relates to Irish families, and to Irish research, is included, along with an exhaustive enumeration of more than one thousand of Limerick families. It will be of great use to anyone researching families from Co. Limerick, Ireland.

The following families were specifically identified as families of County Limerick more anciently in that work. Mac Eneiry Mac Ineiridhe O' Billry or O' Billraidhe O' Cullane O'Cuillein or Collins O' Meehan O' Sheehan O'Mackessy or O'Maelmacasa Mulholland or O'Maelchalloin O' Flannery Mac Sheehy MacArthur O' Scanlan

O'Cleirhcinn or O' Clerkin

O' Donovan O'Kirwick or Kirby O'Muldoon (from Aughrim) O'Kinealy Gunning or O'Conuing O'Keely or O'Cadhla O'Malley or O'Maille O'Ceadfadha O'Hea or Hayes O' Casey O 'Dinan or O'Dinnahan O' Hallinan O'Morny

The foregoing families may be found in Limerick and surrounding areas today, and are given among the old Irish families of the kingdom of Thomand.'

In more modern times the following families are given as being the most numerous in the area: Ryan (91) O'Brien (78) Fitzgerald (58) Sullivan (50) Hayes (45) (likely from O'Hea) Walsh (45) Collins (40) O'Connell (39) Murphy (38) Moloney (38) O'Connor(37) Lynch(31) McNamara (31) O'Donnell (28) Ahern (25) Many more families are given with their historical notes, but the list is too long to give here.

Table of Contents: Barony Map of County Limerick Ortelius Map of Limerick 1576 Ancient Tribal Names Chart Keatings History (illus) Early Families Norman Invasion Family Locations in 1659 Palatine Settlements To The New World Seige Of Limerick City (illus.) Limerick Sheet Music (illus) Families of County Limerick, Ireland History and Locations Found.

Size: 6x9, hardbound, gold stamped @ 184 pages. Illustrated, map, Surname Index. Over 1000 families of Co. Limerick are included, from ancient times to the coming of the 20th century. A one of a kind source book!

ISBN:0940134314 Product ID: 4314

Surname Index includes: (names listed more than once are found more than once in this book)

Tettler Tettlor Paris Smeltzer Griffith Peppar Griffis.--Parris 18:54, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

This all should explain why George Teater was named as Scotch Irish. Its to much of a coincedence that several George Teters and Paul Smeltzers were living together in Limericak Ireland. All these familes of George Teater that lived in the South Irish Colony on the Crab Creek Tract Peppers Millers Smeltzers and Pearis Paris familes have one main thing in common they show to have come from limerick ireland.. There 2 George Teters and one Paul Smeltzer back in Limerick and several Jacob Teters. Since both Paul Smeltzer and George Teater were both connected to Frederick Starns by propery it demonstrates that they were from Ireland. This in theory shows the that a Teter mixed with one of Irish Scotch or Scotcch Irish families back in Limerick Ireland thus producing people like George Teater and Samuel Teater.. In 1709 several hundred Palatine families settled in Ireland. A > combination > of economic hardship caused by war and a severe winter led to the exodus. > Queen Anne received them in England and sent some to Ireland to the > estates > of sympathetic Protestant landlords. They established roots, mainly in the > Rathkeale area of County Limerick, Ireland, where about 1,200 of them > settled on the estate of Thomas Southwell. Other colonies were set up in > Old > Ross and Gorey, County Wexford and in Counties Cork and Dublin. Thought > the > Limerick Palatines spread out to other areas, particularly north Kerry and > Tipperary, Rathkeale remained an important focal point. > > At Killaheen the site of the old Wesleyan Chapel where the Palatines > worshipped may be seen today, also some of the old Palatine houses. A most > interesting item is an old Palatine well. It consists of a trench cut into > the ground deeper than the water table. The sides and the top are lined > with > stone and 18 stone steps lead down the clear cold water. Several such > wells > are to be found in the locality but some have been partly filled in for > safety purposes. > > At Courtmatrix, the earliest of the original colonies, the present > occupiers > of a house built in the Palatine style - long and low - which once longed > to > the Teskey family can be found with the interior which has been kept as > close to its original condition as a modern lifestyle will permit. Behind > the old Teskey home a carved stone cider press is still in position under > an > old tree, an interesting validation of the fact that the Palatines brought > stone-cutting and winemaking skills with them from Germany. > > The third of the parent colonies, Ballingrane, is the place where the most > famous Irish Palatines lived. Barbara Heck and Philip Embury were the > founders of Methodism in the USA, a denomination which now has a following > of several million. Barbara Heck's old home is (1996) occupied by the > family > of Walter Ruttle, a Palatine descendant and a member of the Irish Palatine > Association. Nearby can be found a pear tree under which John Wesley used > to > preach and a plaque marking the site of Philip Embury's home, long since > demolished. A visit to Embury and Heck memorial church contains a horn > blown > by the burgermeister or Palatine leader to summon general meetings in the > early days of the colony. > > Castle Matrix is the home of Thomas Southwell, the landlord who brought > the > Palatines to Limerick. This ancient Fitzgerald castle has been completely > restored and is occupied by the O'Driscoll family. > > Some of the German-speaking people that came to North America did not come > directly. Some Palatines spent time (from a few months to a few > generations) > in other countries, including Ireland. > > Palatine families living in the Rathkeale area circa 1720 included: > Altimes/Alton, Baker, Barkman/Bartman, Barraban, Benner, Bickerin, Bonus, > Bovenizer, Bowen, Bower, Bredhour, Brough, Cave, Cole, Cooke, Corneille, > Cripps, Cronsberry, Delmege, Doupe, Embury, Everett, Filme, Fitzelle, > Folker, Grouse, Guier, Hartwick, Heavenor, Heck, Hibler, Hifle, Hoffman, > Hoopf, Hoost, Laurence, Legear, Lodwick/Ludwig, Lowe, Lower, Lowes, Mick, > Miller, Modler, Neazor, Piper, Poff, Richardt, Rodenbecker, Ruttle, > Rynard, > Ryner, Schmidt/Smyth, Shallas, Sheafer, Shearman, Shimmel, Shire/Shier, > Shoemaker, Shoneweiss, Shouldice, Siebert, Singer, Smeltzer, > Sparlng/Sparling, St. John, Steevell, Steepe, Stork/Stark, Stroud, > Switzer, > Teskey, Tettler/Detlor, Ushelbaugh, Young and Zigler. > > Palatine families in the rest of Ireland circa 1720 included: > Altimus/Altimes, Ashbagh, Baker/Becker, Barklotine, Beever, Berg/Berge, > Berner/Bearney, Bisherne, Boller, Crouse, Crow/Crowe, Fock/Fought, > Fugenacht, Glazier/Gleasure, Golliday, Green, Hartwick/ Hartrick, Hess, > Hoffman, Holbach, Hornick/Horn, Jacobus/Jacob, Jekyll/Jeakle, Johan, > Kirkhover, Klein/Kline, Konig/Koning, Kough/Cooke, Lambert, Long, > Ludolf/Ludolt, Meyer/Myers, Miller, Nichburne, Paul, Poole, Rapple, > Real/Ruhl, Reessnagh/Rufenacht, Reuling, Rhinehart, Richardt/Richard, > Rosine/Rosen, Ross/Rose, Ryling, Schmidt/Smyth, Schultz/Sultz, Sheafer, > Snitzerling, Staler, Steeble, Stengel/Stingill, Strosser, Swartz, > Tyse/Twiss, Walter/Weiss, Wise, Wentz, Wolf, Writer/Rieter, and Young. > > There is an Irish Palatine Heritage Centre in Rathkeale, (near Limerick > and > Adare),Co. Limerick, with extensive displays of artifacts, photographs, > etc. > associated with the Palatine families.--Parris 05:27, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

The Teters of limerick Ireland were Methodists

In Ballygirrane ( Ballygarrane) their is a church known as " The Embury and Heck Memorial ". These families were instrumental in the foundation of the Methodist Episcopal Church in Nth. America. . The Bullock's horn is, on display in the church, was called the faithful to prayer in John Wesley's time.

Barbara was born in there in 1734. She married Paul Heck, whose home was on the site now occupied by the church. In June 1763, they emigrated from Limerick on the "Pery" , with Barbara's cousin, Philip Embury and his wife Margaret ( nee Swtitzer) . The house in which Philip was born is long gone, but a granite marks its site opposite Walter Ruttle's house at "Fairview".

(Source: " Limerick The Fair Land" Sean Spellissy ( now out of print ) NOTE Capt Samuel Gibson Teaters in laws the Doddridges were famous Frontier Preachers of this faith. George Teaters son Parris Teater was the Rev of Gunns chapel of this faith.--Parris 05:41, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

Mike Nassau's work on the Black Germans

The following appears to have been taken from a webpage. The text is the creative property of the author, and to use it here would require his permission. If such permission can not be obtained, then the needed information needs to be extracted and recast so that it is independant of Mike's writing. Its left as is for the moment, but there's a definite need to correct this in the immediate future. One way to handle it would be to request Mike permission to use his words here. Another way to handle it would be to simply link to his site, and include only a brief summation here. In any case, a source for this information is needed (ie, Mike's webpage). Q 09:49, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

Paris' intro.... The Germans such as George Teaters great Granparents have the type of characteristics as haveing to not be able to remain in comfort back in Germany. They had to immigrate to work for a Irish lord in Limericak Ireland. Many can be called the Black Germans coined or nicknamed as the Black Dutch. A few explanations of who the dark complected Germans were.

BLACK DUTCH

by Mike Nassau

This site is dedicated to all people who have been told that they have “Black Dutch” or “Black German” ancestry. There is a Yahoo Discussion Group for Black Dutch where people can discuss their origins and find help with their genealogy. See the messages and other information at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Black_Dutch.

Some people in America describe themselves as Black Dutch or Black German. These terms mean the same thing, Dutch is the English form of Deutsch in German or Duits in Dutch (Nederlands). It has come to mean the people of the Netherlands only in English recently, but it originally meant all speakers of German in the broadest sense. This includes the entire German sub-branch of the Germanic Branch of the Indo-European Language Family. The other sub-branches are the Anglo-Friesian (English, Scots and Friesian) and the Nordic (Swedish, Danish, Dano-Norwegian [Norsk, Riksmal or Bokmal], Nynorsk [Landsmal], Icelandic, and Faeroese [Faroese]).

There are many dialects and languages in the German sub-branch, divided into High German and Low German. The forms of High German are German [High Saxon, Alemanni, High Frankish, Swabian, Bavarian, Austrian, Luxembourgese, Alsatian, Styrian], Swiss German, and Yiddish. Low German includes Low Frankish (Dutch, Flemish, Afrikaans [South African Dutch]), Low Saxon (Hanoverian, Hessian, Brandenburgian, Holsteiner), Pomeranian and Prussian. Compare to the map of Low German Dialects. The Frankish area includes Netherlands, northern Belgium, Rheinland-Pfalz and Hanover, with the area south of Aachen [Charlemagne's capital], centered on Frankfurt, speaking a High German dialect, and the area from Aachen north, centered on Essen, speaking a Low German dialect. The Pennsylvania Dutch are Low Germans from Germany, not Dutch from Netherlands. The Dutch called themselves Nederduitser (Nether German) until recently, when they switched to Nederlander. Belgium is trilingual, the northern part speaks Flemish (Vlaams, a dialect of Dutch), the southern part speaks Waloon (Valone, a dialect of French), and the eastern edge speaks German (Luxembourgese).

To explore the various forms of Germanic language, I would recommend Wikipedia. Start with Dutch, Low German, High German and the Benrath Line which separates them. Follow into Low Franconian, Low Saxon and Dutch Low Saxon. The map under Limburgish shows the dialects spoken in Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg. Click on the map a few times to get it large enough to read. Veluws and the dialects east of it are Low Saxon. Hollandic and south of it to Walloon are Low Franconian. Luxembourgish and Lorrain are Middle German (High German). Of course Frisian is Anglo-Frisian and closer to English than to Dutch and German. Walloon (Valone) and Picardian are dialects of French (Romance, not Germanic).

Groups, forms or uses of “Black Dutch”

There are at least eight quite different groups of people described as "Black Dutch". If you have been told you are Black Dutch or part Black Dutch, you must find out what the name of the German, Dutch or Flemish immigrant was (if there was one), where he or she came from, what their religion was, if any, etc., before you can figure out to which group they belonged.

1. Melungeons are a Mestee group originating along the VA-NC border, particularly Henry and Patrick county, VA, and Rockingham, Stokes and Surry counties, NC. They, like other Mestee groups of the Southeast, were formed by an amalgamation of various mixed-race and non-white people, particularly the remnants of Indian groups which had absorbed a lot of Black, White and Mulatto people. The white ancestry included many ethnic groups, including both northern European (English, Scots, Irish, etc.) and Mediterranean (Moorish, Portuguese, Jewish, etc.) groups. From this origin along the VA-NC border, they spread westwards to other NC counties, up into the SW corner of VA, into the adjoining mountains of TN (Hawkins, Hancock, Grainger), down the Tennessee valley to Hamilton, Rhea and Roane counties, into eastern KY and from there into southern OH, and along the Sabine river in Louisiana and Texas. There are a lot of Melungeons now in other locations like southern WV, northern AL and the Ozark mountains (AR and MO).

Melungeons sometimes call themselves Black Dutch, Black Irish or Black German to hide their mixed race origin while explaining their being darker than most Whites. If they know of German or Dutch ancestry or have a name which sounds German or Dutch, they are very likely to call themselves Black Dutch, more rarely Black German. If not, they are more likely to use Black Irish. For information on the "Black Irish" in America, please see Tom Kunesh's Black Irish site at http://www.darkfiber.com/blackirish . Also see "Shirley Hornbeck's This and That Genealogy Tips, Genealogy Tips on Black Dutch and Irish, Melungeons, Moravians, Pennsylvania Dutch" at http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~hornbeck/blkdutch.htm. For more information on the Melungeons, see What Is a Melungeon at http://whatisamelungeon.webs.com and the online book Melungeons and Other Mestee Groups at http://melungeonmestee.webs.com and the Open Directory list of Melungeon sites at http://dmoz.org/Society/Ethnicity/The_Americas/Melungeon/.

2. Another Mestee group, the Ramapo Mountain People or Ramapough Indians, are sometimes called Black Dutch. This is more true when they leave the Ramapo Mountain area (NJ-NY border) than when they are in this location. They are the descendants of free Mulattos from Dutch farms in the Hudson Valley who moved to the mountains, where they may have mixed with some remnant Indians, who probably would have been the Munsee group of Lenape (Lenni-Lenape or Delaware) Indians, definitely Algonquian speaking Indians of the East Coast. They may have been joined by some Tuscarora (Southern Iroquoians related to the Cherokee) as they fled north after the Tuscarora War. Since they are mainly a mixture of Dutch and Black, the term Black Dutch would fit them in a way. The two main names are Van Dunk (Van Donck) and De Freese (DeFries). For more information on these people, see the links on the Open Directory at http://dmoz.org/Society/Ethnicity/The_Americas/Melungeon/Ramapo_Mountain_People/.

3. Schwarze Deutsche or Black Germans, found along the Danube River in Austria and Germany, in the Black Forest and, to a lesser extent, along the Rhine River, have dark hair and eyes, unlike the fairer people both north and south of them. Their descendants in America may be called either Black Dutch or Black German. The origin of their dark coloration is ancient, from the Roman army in the third and fourth centuries, C.E. The Roman army of this time period was mostly made up of German mercenary soldiers, but along the German border, the Romans preferred to station non-Germans. The army on the Danube was largely drawn from Numidian and Nubian soldiers, especially Garamante Numidians. The Garamante (called Tubu now) were Black Africans from the central Sahara. Now the Tubu live in northern Chad, eastern Niger and southern Libya. They are not usually found north of Marzuk in Fezzan or Kufra in Cyrenaica now, but in Roman times they ranged north to the central coast of Libya and to Ghadames in southern Tunisia. As well as Garamante, there were some Iranic people stationed on this frontier, especially Sarmatians (called Ossets now) and Scythians (Ashkenazi in the Hebrew Bible) from southern Russia and the Ukraine (Ashkenaz, the old Hebrew for Scythia, has been used for Germany in modern Hebrew by Ashkenazic Jews trying to ingratiate themselves with Germans and Austrians or trying to hide their Khazar ancestry). These African and Iranic soldiers left many descendants who tend to have black, heavy hair and dark eyes even yet.

Beethoven and Hitler are two famous examples of this group (Peanuts). It is interesting to imagine Hitler's reaction to someone telling him he probably got his heavy, black hair from Black African ancestry. Since this was so long ago, with population movement and inter-marriage, all Europeans must have some ancestry from these Black African soldiers. In sixty generations, a person could leave 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 descendants with just two children per person each generation so long as no descendants married each other. Obviously, after a time, many descendants will marry each other, but still it works out statistically that most people from that long ago who left descendants at all are ancestors of everyone in Europe today. The tendency for people to stay in their own community explains why we can see the effects along the Danube and in the Black Forest in the people with black hair and dark eyes but do not see it far away like Iceland. The concentration is far greater at the point of origin, but the dispersion radiates out to everywhere given enough time.

4. Tziganes or, more commonly (but erroneously), Gypsies, are another group called Black Dutch in America. A Tzigane from Germany, who could speak German, could be accepted much better by saying he was Black Dutch than if he admitted to being Gypsy. Tziganes were called Gypsies because of the mistaken belief they came from Egypt. At other times and places, they were called Bohemians (as in La Boheme) because they were thought to be from what is now the Czech Republic. Their language is called Romany, sometimes attributed to their self-given name of Rom (or Dom) but more likely because they were thought to be from Romania. In actuality, they come from the Indus valley area of Pakistan and western India, their language is Indic, their traditional religion a form of Hinduism. The name Rom or Dom comes from the Sanskrit word Domba, meaning low caste ("untouchable") musician. Tzigane, which has cognates in most European languages including Russian and Turkish, is derived from the Sanskrit name of their caste in ancient India. Words for Tzigane in a few languages: English = Tzigane; French = Tzigane; Russian = Tsygan Dutch = Zigeuner; German = Zigeuner; Hungarian = Cigany Italian = Zingaro; Spanish = Gitano; Rumanian = T¸igan Turkish = Çingene; Polish = Cygan; Czech = Cikan

There is already an excellent site on Tziganes as Black Dutch in America: Wayfaring Stranger by Linda Griggs. It also tells about their connections with the Melungeons. Please see: Part One at http://foclark.tripod.com/gypsy/Patrin1.htm Part Two at http://foclark.tripod.com/gypsy/Patrin2.htm.

5. Dutch and Belgian Jews were sometimes called Black Dutch in America because they spoke Dutch or Flemish and were darker than the other Dutch and Flemish. They had only recently moved to the Netherlands and Belgium (then Spanish Netherlands) from Iberia (Portugal and Spain). When Spain annexed Portugal for a while, many Portuguese Jews fled to Spanish Flanders to escape the Inquisition (see http://www.theotherside.co.uk/tm-heritage/background/flanders.htm for Flanders as part of Spanish Netherlands). Most, like the famous philosopher Baruch Spinoza, crossed into Protestant Netherlands for greater freedom of expression and religion (see http://users.erols.com/jyselman/ for more on Spinoza). These Sephardic Jews were, on the average, darker than the Ashkenazic Jews of northern Europe, so an explanation like Black Dutch suited them well.

6. Mulattos, Quadroons, Octaroons and other mixed children of German, Dutch or Flemish fathers who appeared mostly White, but were too dark, would use the term in order to live in White society. Of course, they frequently learned the term from one of the other types of Black Dutch and then would sieze it as their own.

How many people were in each of these groups, I have no idea. But there are a lot of people finding ancestors called Black Dutch, so there could have been a sizeable number in any of them.

7. I have found a Mailing List (discussion group) on the Black Dutch in America. This group seems to mostly be Native American or part Native American whose ancestors said they were Black Dutch in order to be accepted as White at a time when people were denied their rights and rejected for being part Indian. See the Rootsweb Mailing List for Black-Dutch-America at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/black-dutch-america.

8. The U.S. Census has official categories to which people can be assigned. These are called “subject definitions” or “Ancestry codes”. The numbers assigned vary from year to year, one year “Melungeon” was number 662 under SOME OTHER RACE (600-999). Another year, it was 763 under 700-799, 986, 987-999 Other Race, 749-799, 986, 987-999 Not of Hispanic Origin. There is an entry for “Black Dutch”, it is 310 under:

300-359 WEST INDIES (EXCEPT HISPANIC)

310-313 DUTCH WEST INDIES

310 DUTCH WEST INDIES

310 Black Dutch

310 Netherlands Antilles

311 Aruba Islander

311 Bonaire Islander

311 Curacao Islander

312-313 St. Maarten Islander

312 Saba Islander

312-313 St. Eustatius Islander

So, to the U.S. government, “Black Dutch” means people from the Dutch West Indies (also called the Netherlands Antilles). This is almost totally irrelevant to American or Canadian individuals trying to find out what some ancestor meant by describing himself as “Black Dutch”, of course.

There are many other mixed groups around the world that might be called “Black Dutch” but which don’t show up in America until very recently. Black and part Black people from Suriname (Surinam, Dutch Guiana) could also be called “Black Dutch”. Part Dutch mixed race groups like the Cape Coloureds of South Africa, The Rehobothers of Namibia and the Burghers (Burgers) of Sri Lanka (see Dutch in Sri Lanka) come to mind. Then any non-white person living in the Netherlands might be called “Black Dutch”, like the large Indonesian community there, especially the Christians from the Moluccas who regard themselves as refugees from predominantly Muslim Indonesia and never intend to return there. The famous spy, Mata Hari, who was part Indonesian, could be called “Black Dutch”. But all these have nothing to do with the historical “Black Dutch” of North America.

Mike Nassau, April 6, 2006 --Parris 11:45, 17 October 2008 (EDT)