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[add comment] [edit] Nederland's Patriciaat [6 September 2010]Hallo, can someone tell me if Source:Nederland's Patriciaat : Genealogieen Van Bekende Geslachten and Source:Nederland's Patriciaat are duplicate sources? Since WR gathered it's sources from FHLC, they have this description for each source: [1] and [2]. If they are the same, I will merge them into one. Bedankt! --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:03, 6 September 2010 (EDT) Yes they are. It is however a yearly publication with about 15 - 20 families, and 500 pages each year. It would be helpfull to refer to a specific year.--Nicolaas 08:24, 6 September 2010 (EDT)
[add comment] [edit] Bad or good idea to open new pages for new titles ? [22 October 2010]
On Rodovid we have the system to open a new page for every new title and that gives more possibilities for subtitles. Watercooler doesn't attract me, because I everytime have to many trouble to find what I'm searching.--Fred Bergman 14:32, 21 October 2010 (EDT)
Why don't we bring this back to the portal forum, where it was before, -and keep it all in one place- as far as I recall vaguely. It is hard enough as it is to trace back discussions on WR....as on Rodovid b.t.w. --Leo Bijl 14:19, 22 October 2010 (EDT) [add comment] [edit] Genea Afkortingen / Abbreviations [23 okt 2010]Mijn gedcoms staan gedeeltelijk in genealogische afkortingen van landen, NLD voor Nederland, DEU voor Deutschland, BEL voor België, enz. Hoewel dit internationaal erkende afkortingen zijn, worden ze gedeeltelijk en niet allemaal gevolgd door WeRelate volgens mij. --Fred Bergman 15:33, 22 October 2010 (EDT)
[add comment] [edit] Today I found some wrong links [23 okt 2010](F) > France not Russia
okay, thank you, it's simple and usefull, but I didn't know this !--Fred Bergman 07:23, 23 October 2010 (EDT) [add comment] [edit] Taalgebruik - Use of language [22 okt 2010]Ik prefereer de gehele naamgeving van Nederlandse plaatsnamen, provincies en het land zelf in het Nederlands, dus bijvoorbeeld Almere, Flevoland, Nederland --Fred Bergman 03:25, 22 October 2010 (EDT)
Was al te doen gebruikelijk, voor zover ik weet. --Leo Bijl 12:55, 22 October 2010 (EDT)
The current convention on WeRelate is for places names to be in the country's native language - except for the county portion. So, in the case of the Netherlands, town, gemeente, provincie would all be in Dutch, but the country would be Netherlands. I don't know why this decision was made, as it was before I became a WR user. It is certainly something we can ask Dallan about, but I know he recently upheld this when a user questioned the use of the term Germany in place titles. Klaas is correct, if you have a place like Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Nederland in your gedcom, it will correctly match to the WR place page. The text that will appear on the page will be Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Nederland, but when you click on it, you will go to Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands. This works only because Nederland was added as an alternate name on the Netherlands page. We also added NL and NLD for the same reasons - for better gedcom place matching. btw... I may answer in English... but you are more than welcome to continue the conversation in Dutch... I'll get the gist of it (thank you Google Translate!) --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:35, 22 October 2010 (EDT) [add comment] [edit] Gedcom in queue - need suggestions [30 December 2010]There is a gedcom in the queue that I could use some suggestions about. Pre-1811 names in the file (that have no surname) are stored only in the given name field. That means a Family page for Alle Wijmers and Froukje Edses will be titled as Alle and Froukje because there is no data in the surname field. The user is reluctant to put the patronymic name in the surname field saying " I haven't used the patronymic in the surname field with the persons who don't have a surname (before 1811) because of the fact that there is a discussion in Holland Going on wheather you should use the patronymic as a surname or not. My softwareprogramma Aldfaer is not supporting the use of a patronymic as a surname." I could edit the file and move the patronymic name to the surname field so the pages will be titled correctly. Does anybody have other suggestions? Is there a consensus that pages titled with only the first name is problematic? Dank u wel! --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:12, 30 December 2010 (EST)
[add comment] [edit] WeRelate talk:Forum (Nederlands)/Titling Netherlands Places [24 okt 2010]The more that I am looking at the Gedcoms of Dutch users, the more I regret renaming all of the WR place pages for Friesland! I saw your Birdaard, Ferwerderadeel link and first thought - hey, that's in Dantumadeel... It was, but not at the time of your ancestors' death. If I had just kept the pages titled Birdaard, Friesland, Netherlands, there might have been less confusion. Maybe this is a question I should bring up in the future on the Netherlands forum.
But on Rodovid, you name your place pages differently. Example: Ferwerd is just titled Place:Ferwerd. Whereas on WR, we put the full information including Province and Country. I went through and renamed the pages for Friesland a few years ago to add the gemeente (based on what I was seeing on Tresoar). Now I realize that made more trouble since places changed municipalities so much! Also, it's confusing that we did not do the same for all of the other provinces. If we want to keep discussing this, I'd suggest starting a topic on the NL forum. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:22, 22 August 2010 (EDT) Yes indeed, but we categorize the villages and other miniscule places to the caegory of the province, we categorize the provinces to the country, and the countries to the continent and the continents to the category world. Historical world and world in the category Earth. At least so started I with this, but afterwords we divided tasks and now administrator Lidewy is improving the categories and I appreciate that and accept her decisions just as yours on WeRelate.--Fred Bergman 07:43, 22 August 2010 (EDT)
Leo wil vast wel helpen. Hijn helpt mij ook altijd op Rodovid en houdt/hield daar toezicht op de geografische categorieën. Wij slaan bij Rodovid tegenwoordig ook een niveau over. Een dorp, een gehucht, een wijk, voormalige gemeenten, worden rechtstreeks onder een provincie gehangen, we slaan de nieuwe gemeenten, maar ook de oude gemeenten, waar ze vroeger eventueel bijhoorden, over en hangen ze rechtreeks onder de huidige provincie. --Fred Bergman 09:57, 22 August 2010 (EDT)
There is a list of duplicate names in Wikipedia NL. Nes (Ameland) is different from Nes (Dongeradeel).
This is quite helpful! Some of these disambiguations we won't have to worry about here, like Amsterdam (Canada) and Amsterdam (Georgia). Since we put the province and country, we'd only have to be concerned about the duplicates within the same province. --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:30, 22 August 2010 (EDT) text below copied from Talk:List of cities, towns, and villages in Overijssel, Netherlands It seems to me, that for the Province of Overijssel the level 'Gemeente' = Municipality has been left out. Is there a way to correct this? --Ekjansen 12:22, 23 August 2010 (EDT)
[add comment] [edit] Verder [12 December 2010]Now beiing about 4 months WeRelated, having a bit of genealogical experience (since 1962) and still trying to understand the rules or conventions which are used under WeRelate circumstances, I think of the following proposal: Places like Oldeberkoop or Marrum having their own church (or civil) records but never were a Gemeente should be given a first level like Oldeberkoop, Ooststellingwerf, Friesland, Netherlands. Places and small villages without specific own sources like churchbooks and so on like Bergentheim or Beerse should be mentioned in the text, and Bergentheim should not be in the first level, so just Hardenberg, Overijssel, Netherlands. The problem left: should it be Hardenberg (Ambt) or Ambt Hardenberg and the further problem is, although Bergentheim was part of Ambt Hardenberg as from 1811, the people from Bergentheim where christened and married in Hardenberg (Stad) and not in Heemse. So there are still exceptional situations left.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 12:51, 21 October 2010 (EDT)
Hi, I'm reading al his stuff about 4 or 5 levels and I would like to place myself in the position of an interested viewer (consumer) When I'm surfing on the net and I find one of my ancestors. I would like to find as much details as I can get so f.i in my special case I have ancestors born in Beneden Veensloot (hamlet or even street), Meeden (village), Menterwolde (gemeente), Groningen, Nederland. On google earth (streetview) you can be that specific and that is what I as consumer want. At the other hand when you want to keep it to 4 levels, why don't let the country be, most names and combinaties are unique, as I look up beneden veensloot on google earth I go to the right place (of course I have to use the correct spelling.) I also mak contributions on http://www.genealogy.henny-savenije.pe.kr/tng/ you mightview examples there --henk 24 October 2010 (EDT)
Een groot probleem zit bij de gemeentelijke herindelingen
Site Henny is mijn home :-) Mvg, --Lidewij 08:01, 24 October 2010 (EDT)
Hey Lidewij, I want to improve my english, so I continue in Enlish ;-): I don't recognize our dutch "herindeling"as the major problem. As a surfer on the internet I would like to find (in this case) Ganzedijk, that's the constant factor, when I want to know about the herindeling my search continues. By the way funny that you mention Ganzedijk do you have ancestors from there? --henk 24 October 2010 (EDT)
Okay, that's clear, it doesn't matter what you notice, the constant factor is (in Lidewij's example) Ganzedijk. In your own database you can use the correct data and it will be converted to historical database I understand the message, have a nice day--henk 09:06, 24 October 2010 (EDT)
Jennifer,
5 > 4 , Mvg,--Lidewij 07:53, 25 October 2010 (EDT)
--Leo Bijl 14:38, 8 December 2010 (EST)
I am strongly leaning towards following the structure we now have for place titles in Friesland. The hierarchy is this:
For very small hamlets underneath a town, we would not have 5-levels, but instead:
In regards to the concern about places being titled as they were around 1900 - this does not limit how places appear in your gedcom, nor how they are imported. The 1900 "rule" is simply a snapshot in time - and something unique to call the page. Just as person pages are titled Jane Doe (1) does not mean that the full details for the person are excluded - they are just elsewhere on the page. Take Birdaard as an example. I tested this with a sample gedcom with two people, one born in Birdaard, Ferwerderadeel... and the other born in Birdaard, Dantumadeel. In both instances, the place appears on the person's page just as it did in the gedcom. Both pages link to Place:Birdaard, Dantumadeel, Friesland, Netherlands which gives information on this place, where it is currently located, and where is was previously located. This is exactly how we want this process to work. Users can also choose to use the term Nederland instead of Netherlands - they will still match correctly. This will be a challenge to implement, but will be no more difficult to use in the long-run. It has the potential to provide users more information. For example: an ancestor was born in Farmsum. A page titled Farmsum, Groningen, Netherlands is ok - but Place:Farmsum, Delfzijl, Groningen, Netherlands is even better. Now I see that I can go to the Delfzijl Geboorteregister to find their record. The register books are arranged by gemeente, and the events for each town appear within. It makes sense to me to arrange WR the same way. Go to the Friesland page - see the gemeente - click on a gemeente - see the towns within. A valuable resource that will help in a renaming project is the Repertorium van Nederlandse gemeenten 1812-2006. I know that Klaas has another book that he references, though I cannot locate the title at them moment. --Jennifer (JBS66) 09:27, 9 December 2010 (EST)
I will go ahead then and begin renaming some of the NL place pages (the pages that are currently duplicates) to the dorp, gemeente, provincie, Netherlands format. I'll also put a note on the Place:Netherlands page about the proposed place title format. --Jennifer (JBS66) 11:50, 10 December 2010 (EST) Ik zie af en toe verschillen in de wikiverwijzing. Soms staat er: Wikipedia NL en soms staat er: Huppelepup op Wikipedia NL. Dat sluipt er per ongeluk in. Stel voor: de kortste formule (is minder werk, dus goedkoper:)) --Leo Bijl 11:43, 11 December 2010 (EST)
Excellent, the shorter it is, the faster it goes, and the faster it goes, the cheaper it is. This is the Netherlands you know :) --Leo Bijl 11:57, 11 December 2010 (EST) So, that pins the standard layout for the province of Groningen down to: [add comment] [edit] Research Tips[add comment] [edit] External Links
[add comment] [edit] Images [12 December 2010]
Ja, I am using a template that has this: == Research Tips ==
==External Links==
*[http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/XXXX Wikipedia NL]
*{{link-fhlc|NNNN|XXXX}}
==Images==
*[http://www.archieven.nl/zoeken?miview=gal1&mivast=0&mizig=115&miadt=5&milang=nl&mizk_alle=XXXX Foto's in the Groninger Archieven]
*[http://www.archieven.nl/zoeken?miview=gal1&mivast=0&mizig=52&miadt=5&milang=nl&mizk_alle=XXXX Prentbriefkaarten (postcards) in the Groninger Archieven]
Where the XXXX is replaced with the naam van de dorp and NNNN is the Family Search number that appears on some pages like this: {{source-fhlc|153550}} If the place is a gemeente or Voormalige gemeente, then I added a link to the 1868 map ==Maps and Gazetteers== *[http://www.atlas1868.nl/gr/XXXX.html 1868 Map for XXXX] For the type field, I am not going crazy with kleindorp and this dorp and that dorp :-) I am simply putting Dorp... There is probably more that could be added, but at the very least, I enjoyed adding and looking at the old photos! Also, most of these links only apply to Groningen - the template would need to be edited for other provincie. Feel free to offer suggestions for editing my template - or... follow behind and sweep up after me :-) --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:35, 11 December 2010 (EST)
So, the standard sequence of the headings will be:
We don't need: located in Groningen, until 1990; the town is not going anywhere :) --Leo Bijl 15:52, 11 December 2010 (EST) I think the only time I've put 'located in Groningen until 1990' is for the Voormalige gemeente like Place:'t Zandt, Groningen, Netherlands. It ceased being on its own in 1990, and was then incorporated into the gemeente of Loppersum. Do you propose leaving off the 'located in Groningen until 1990' because it didn't really cease being in that province? --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:57, 11 December 2010 (EST) It hasn't gone anywhere, has it? We didn't cut the province apart (yet) and we didn't give any territory to Lower Saxony for a present either. If this one is in Loppersum now, then Loppersum is in Groningen; so is anything underneath. A present - how sweet... just in time for the holidays. I will omit those types of dates then, on your advice. --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:13, 11 December 2010 (EST)
We don't need to delete it, especially since there are pages that link to it. This is an example of where redirects are useful. I redirected Place:Adorp, Winsum, Groningen, Netherlands to Place:Adorp, Groningen, Netherlands by putting the following code into the text box on the page that you want to redirect (in this case Place:Adorp, Winsum, Groningen, Netherlands): #REDIRECT [[Place:Adorp, Groningen, Netherlands]] Oh?????????????? It says that NOWHERE. All I knew was...can't rename because etc etc Are they not the other way around? 3 levels to 4? That causes the person watching the redirected page to be added as a watcher to the other page. The links will also remain intact this way. If you do redirect a page like this, be sure to move over pertinent information first, because once you add the redirect code, the information on that page will be lost. --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:33, 11 December 2010 (EST) Help:Formatting#How_do_I_Redirect_a_page_to_another_page.3F. I redirected Place:Adorp, Winsum, Groningen, Netherlands to Place:Adorp, Groningen, Netherlands because Adorp was its own gemeente until 1990, at which point it was absorbed into Winsum. So, I'm keeping that title of the page as it was around 1900. --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:45, 11 December 2010 (EST) Ah yes, well, typically the sort of thing I will keep forgetting for my life on end; totally incompatible to a man of Letters. These the same as yours?: (tip from Lidewij) http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Gemeente_Atlas_van_Nederland_-_Groningen
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