User talk:RCGwinn
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Welcome [23 January 2014]

Welcome to WeRelate, your virtual genealogical community. We're glad you have joined us. At WeRelate you can easily create ancestor web pages, connect with cousins and other genealogists, and find new information. To get started:

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Sir, I don't understand why you think this link works: http://members.aol.com/rcgwinn/home.htm That is the old link.

I'll tell you what I will do, I will remove the material that was pulled from my website. It has nothing to do with David Gwin's will from Cleek and everything that is above the old link to my website.--RCGwinn 00:23, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

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Robert Gwin [19 January 2014]

Robert

Re: Person:Robert Gwinn (2)

How do you know that Chalkley transcribed Robert Gwin as Givens? Have you compared the original records to see if the name was actually spelled "Gwin".
Can you explain how YDNA evidence could be used to show that he came northern Ireland and not Wales. I've no particular insight on where he came from, but I doubt that you could reach that conclusions from YDNA. Q 23:34, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

I know where Givins was wrongly used instead of Gwin by the context of the references. The 1744 Plat map of the Calfpasture made for Col. James Patton shows Robert Gwin in Lot 16, 544 acres; this is in the Wisconsin Historical Society as part of the Draper Collection. The Orange County Deed Book 10 pp 104-106 records the indenture on 16 July 1745 between Patton and Lewis and Robert Gwin for the sale of the 544 acres on the Calfpasture adjacent to John Preston's land and John Graham's land. Robert's son, Samuel Gwinn says he was born in Augusta County on the Calfpasture in his Revolutionary War pension. David Graham in his History of the Graham Family (1899) says the Gwinns and Grahams both lived on the Calfpasture and came over from Ireland together. Now, look at the context of the Chalkley references to Robert Givins on the Calfpasture or the 544 acres.--RCGwinn 00:00, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

You might want to add that explanation to the article.

And with regard to my question about using YDNA to establish that the family was not from Wales? Q 00:06, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

I will take your suggestion to add the information to the article. Regarding the Y-DNA testing, 6 documented descendants of Robert Gwin, Sr. have taken extensive Y-DNA testing including me (I am the 5th great-grandson of Robert Gwin, Sr.) All of our results matched which proved that there were no non-paternal events in our line of descent. The test results also showed we were positive for the mutation M222. M222 is a unique mutation that has been associated by Trinity College in Dublin with the Northern Ui Neill, the dominant family clan of Northwestern Ireland. 20% of the men in Donegal for example test positive for M222--it shows up some in Scotland where but not in Wales. The tests we took also confirmed that our closest relatives include the Quinns, O'Donnells, the Doughertys, the MacLochlanns, Gallaghers, the O'Kanes, etc. These are all native Irish families from Donegal and Derry. Now combine the Y-DNA evidence with the earliest oral history of the Gwinn family that we came from Ireland, the Graham Family History (1899) that the Gwinns came from Ireland, the history of the Calfpasture settlement, the recruiting of settlers from Ireland by Beverley, Lewis, Patton and Preston (John Preston was Patton's agent in Londonderry for recruiting families to the Calfpasture)and the records of Gwinns in Templemore Parish (Londonderry). When compared against the absolute dearth of any real evidence linking Robert Gwin to Wales.--RCGwinn 00:40, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

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Recent Changes to Gwin Person Pages [23 January 2014]

Hello, in recent changes to Person Pages of Robert Gwinn and his son Samuel Gwinn, you [perhaps] inadvertently deleted information and notes that were placed on these pages by other WeRelate submitters. We'd ask that you please respect the contribution of others adding information to Person Pages and before deleting contributions made by others, please try to contact them on their "Talk Page" stating the reason/rationale for the suggested deletion, assuming that you believe the information to be in error. Since this is a "wiki" site, it relies upon collaboration, cooperation and communication between interested parties to make sure the information listed is correct for each particular person. Also, each Person's "Talk Page" can be used to state your reasons and/or rationale for any suggested changes, to make sure each submitter has an opportunity to state their case for their additions/sources/documentation, etc.

Thanks and best regards,

Jim Volunteer Administrator, WeRelate--Delijim 04:08, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

That is fine, I will be happy to contact the individuals who have posted incorrect information. However, I would like to point out some concerns.

First, when a contributor posts information that has no sources or any rationale explaining the basis for a conclusion or assumption--do you as a volunteer administrator do anything to correct or clean that up? For example, some of the information posted from the Hill family website on the Robert Gwin page appears to be totally made up (the marriage date in Wales for example) or contains redundant information on dates that appears elsewhere on the page.

Second, someone used material from one of my websites without my permission. I took it off and you just put it back on along with an old web link that is now dead.

Third, I moved the will for Capt. David Gwin to the page for Capt. David Gwin. Isn't that where it should be instead of on his father's page?

I have been a serious genealogical researcher for over 40 years specializing in the Gwinn family (Robert Gwin, Sr. is my 5th great-grandfather). I am one of about 2 or 3 people who are experts on this family and I am engaged in original research. I don't just pull things off of other peoples trees without critical thinking and analysis. Again, I understand your concern about encouraging people to contribute; however, it is discouraging to see people continuing to post demonstrably erroneous information that has not gone through any critical analysis. Thank you for allowing me to express my concerns.--RCGwinn 04:43, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

RC, You are making an assumption that the information you are removing is incorrect. There are many pages on WeRelate where information is placed pending verification. Sometimes that information is correct, sometimes not. Eventually the idea is to document everything, verify everything, and validate everything. But just because someone says something is wrong, does not make it wrong. What is needed is a justification for adding or removing something. Adding new information, even without supporting evidence isn't particularly a problem, unless it contradicts previous work. In that case, justification is definitely needed. The same thing applies to removing something. Ultimately, WeRelate is a collaborative affair. Your ideas are just as important as other peoples ideas…but at the same time, other peoples ideas of what's correct, are just as important as yours. That's something you need to respect, and you need to understand the collaborative nature of the site.
With regard to the materials from your website: I will point out that the materials were attributed to your site. Original text, written by yourself, would, of course, be protected under copyright law. You are certainly justified in seeking to remove copyrighted materials, especially since their use on WeRelate might release them for further use by others under the Creative Commons, and GFDL license in use on this site. The portion of those materials related to your own personal original intellectual contribution (i.e., the part that you wrote yourself) certainly should be removed if you object to their use. You have explained your objection, and I think Jim will respond in kind.
In any case, not all of the materials taken from your site were copyrightable. You can't, for example, copyright something that is in the public domain. That would include the will of Robert/David Gwin. Here, I will note that on your website you show the source of the will as Bath County Will Book 2. You also show it under the heading of "Robert Gwin's Will". I agree that this should be corrected, and the will placed in association with the proper person, both on WeRelate, and on your website. That said, did you actually transcribe the will from that original source, or did you take it from some other work, such as Cleek and Cleek 1957 (which includes the will verbatim)? In any case, a transcription of a public document is not copyrightable. I believe those materials can be used freely by others without copyright infringement issues. Finally, I will note that much of the text on your site was taken (at least in part) more or less verbatim from Cleek and Cleek 1957. You've made some deletions of things you don't agree with, and a parenthetical explanation of why you think Cleek and Cleek have something wrong, but the basic text is that of Cleek and Cleek 1957, a copyrighted work. Did you have permission to use that work?

I'm sure that both Jim and I would like to see you continue to work on these lines on WeRelate. You are certainly more familiar with the lines than we. I'd like to encourage you to work collaboratively with Jim to remove materials that are your own work to which use you object, and perhaps the copyrighted material that you yourself have incorporated into your site. I'd also encourage you to work collaboratively with Jim in improving these pages, both in terms of content, and in terms of sourcing of data. Q 12:37, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi RC, I could not respond yesterday as my AOL file stopped working, got corrupted and had to be re-installed by their Tech support this morning. First of all, I'd like to echo Bill's comment above that we'd like you to continue your work on the Gwin/Gwinn and related families in Augusta and surrounding counties. Bill and I have done much of the "heavy lifting" in working on the Early Settlers of Augusta County Project, and we have received assistance from other serious researchers like yourself that have extensive knowledge of specific families, which adds much value to the collaborative aspect of our work here on WeRelate. Unfortunately, in adding some of these families that neither of us has first-hand knowledge or done primary research, some of the notes listed, taken from various sources (including websites such as yours), may have been inadvertently included in the "notes" field of some of the uploaded gedcoms a few years ago.

I don't believe either of us has an issue with you suggesting to remove inaccurate information from a Person Page, but in a collaborative environment, there needs to be some type of communication before deleting the contributions of others. I did find it interesting in the listings of your information about the "Robert Givens" mis-transcriptions in Chalkley's, which after I looked at, agree with your findings. I am not aware of an older Robert Givens that was in Augusta County during that time period, so your notations certainly appear to be correct.

Again, thanks for your additions, please be sure to let either of us know if you need any assistance in your research and we'll do what we can to help. I'm doing what I can to add information on multiple sources in Augusta and its surrounding counties in adding specific records to the Person Pages of most of the early settlers in Augusta County, which has turned into a MUCH larger project than I had originally anticipated, so whatever assistance you can help with would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again and best regards,

Jim:)

Gentlemen--

I need to clear up what seems to still be a misunderstanding. I was not claiming a copyright on David Gwin's will which someone transcribed from Early Western Augusta Pioneers by George Washington Cleek. My only action regarding the will was to move it from the page for Robert Gwin, Sr. to the page for Capt. David Gwin as this was the more appropriate place.

I do however claim a copyright on the material that someone added to your website without my permission. That original material, written by me, follows the link http://members.aol.com/rcgwinn/home.htm. Also this link has been dead for about 3 years. The new link is http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gwinn/index.html RCGwinn 22:11, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi

The material in question was drawn from your original web site (ParisTimes. That link works just fine. It was this link that was cited in conjunction with this information. The information on that page basically comes from Cleek and Creek 1957, though you've added some parenthetical material where you disagreed with their conclusion. Cleek and Cleek 1957 is the copyrighted work that probably should have been cited. In any case, US Copyright laws allow for the use of small snippets of material from copyrighted work under the fair use rule. Quoting a short passage from Cleek and Cleek 1957, the original source of the materials, would be appropriate. The reference citation, however, should have been directed toward Cleek and Cleek 1957. We will work to correct the article appropriately. I appreciate your bringing the problem to our attention. Q 23:14, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi RC, I do agree with removing David Gwinn's information from his father's Person Page, it makes much more sense to have information pertaining to each person on their Person Page and not duplicating it in two places.

Feel free to edit as such.

Take care,

Jim:)

Just to clarify, the www.paristimes.com website is not mine. That was not the old website I was referring to. It has been taken care of so no more need to discuss.

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