User talk:Jeff1961



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Danford, Quebec-- and other things [6 April 2013]


Sometimes WeRelate Support messages fail to reach me--don't ask me why, it's a quirk on the system. Anyway, I just saw your e-mailed query as I went to turn off my computer for the night. I will have a look at Danford's problems tomorrow. First thought is, have you considered using the rename command from the list on the left? However, rename won't work if the place has a sub-place (like a cemetery). Second thought: I tried to sort out Quebec a few months ago and gave up. My first problem was finding the obligatory e-acute.

Second, I can hardly believe I am speaking to someone with an aka of Jeff1961. Jeffs happens to be my married surname! I was neither born nor married in 1961 but the year has other significances for me.

I was born in Ontario, but live in the UK. You will have to bear with the time difference to await your answer.

/cheers --goldenoldie 16:46, 6 April 2013 (EDT)

A useful reference for Canadian placenames [7 April 2013]

Further to my message last night, a website I used throughout my work on Ontario, and one that is good across Canada, is [ the Canadian Geographical Names Data Base]. It's a bit of a mouthful when you want to cite the source, but is very useful. It gives longitude and latitude co-ordinates (which you ought to copy into WeRelate to prove you've looked up the place!) and enough single word descriptions to differentiate between a river and a village, or whatever. Remember to switch from the radio button "current" to "all" in Choice 3.

Remember, as a rule of thumb, WeRelate prefers to list places as they were in 1900. But, if you are working with events that occurred before 1867 in Canada, you should cite the name of the country at the time. In Ontario and Quebec that is [[Place:Canada West, Canada|Canada West]] and [[Place:Canada East, Canada|Canada East]] for 1840-1867 and [[Place:Upper Canada, Canada|Upper Canada]] and [[Place:Lower Canada, Canada|Lower Canada]] before that. There is something about going into French equivalents complete with proper accents for Quebec--and don't ask me what one does before 1790. This is where I gave up.

I notice AndrewRT has given you some pointers on the Support page. Be careful when it comes to place-name hierarchy in Quebec. What La Belle Province wants and what WeRelate expects may be entirely different.

Good luck --goldenoldie 09:30, 7 April 2013 (EDT)

Danford--Hope this is the answer [9 April 2013]

"The "located in" place (the place after the first comma in the title) is not found. You need to create that place first."

WeRelate likes to name places in the following hierarchy: city or town or village or hamlet or township/county/province or state/country. Therefore you can forget about the "Municipality of the United Townships of Alleyn and Cawood", or even just "Alleyn and Cawood" in its name. Danford should be [[Place:Danford, Pontiac, Quebec, Canada]].

I get the feeling that's not precise enough for you. It isn't for me either, but one must play ball with the team. If you don't, they will quickly remind you that you are an amateur. So what I would do is add [[Place:Alleyn and Cawood, Pontiac, Quebec|Alleyn and Cawood]] as well, giving it Type:"Canton".

Find the co-ords for both in the reference website I told you about yesterday. When you add them remember to change "E" to "W" or you will find you just came from Siberia <smile>.

Add a note in the description section for Danford that it is located in Alleyn and Cawood. I like to put this type of note in the "See also" box as well. For an example, take a look at any hamlet or village in Lanark or Renfrew County, Ontario, and see the organization there. You will notice I was able to tie in the new organization of counties with the old ones by calling the modern administrations "municipalities" or "regional municipalities". But Toronto and Ottawa, having changed twice since 1975 and going back to the old name of the place but including much more territory, have left me stymied. Some day it will have to be answered. In the past decade centenarians who managed to live thier whole lives in one house in York Township or North York could have had birth, marriage and death registrations provided by three different districts.

Re Quebec. Do look at the discussion in the first topic on the Support page (written in January of this year). Dsavard appears to be our only French Canadian.

Toronto is my home town. Have you got rid of all the snow patches yet? I have a cousin in Brampton who reported they were still there a couple of weeks ago. Have you noticed my family tree names yet? 'Tis a small world. --goldenoldie 03:10, 8 April 2013 (EDT)

Thanks so much. Well, i'm definately and amateur i'm more inclined to find out what the site format is and do it that way. (play ball with the team) If I understand you correctly, then I did it properly in the first place, so it shouldn't need a change...although I saw something about an edit for the Place which I assume was you. Is it the text from its wiki page that you added? (i'm really struggling with the format of this wiki...the correspondence like this and the page edit interface, very unusual)

I really like the "Alt names" area. Perhaps the only relevant alternate name is "Danford Corners" though. Not the municipality names i've got in there now.

What do you think of entering the history that includes the complex changes in municipality in the Notes area...instead of creating them as a new place as you've suggested? I suppose it is a "Place" though. There will be some homes scattered in that municipality that are outside of the Danford Lake hamlet. So if one knew a person was not born in Danford Lake, the correct Place would be the municipality. In other words, it would have to be entered as a Place eventually, may as well enter/create it now. Is that what you're thinking?

I did see Dsavard's support post, and contacted him...but got no reply. It is partly what led me to attempting to be "correct". But again, what the standard is for this what i'd prefer to do. I'm too new to this wiki to be blazing new administration trails. lol

All the snow is gone in Toronto. We've had more snow here than i've seen in 6 years, however it still pales in comparison to Ottawa.

I had not looked at your tree, until now. I don't see the connection you are referring to. There's a Moran and a Doherty, but I don't believe there's a strong connection there. I've looked through over 200 names, and must have missed it. What is it you are talking about?--Jeff1961 17:38, 8 April 2013 (EDT)

I am going to leave most of the answers until tomorrow, but I must make a reply to your last comment. Moran and Doherty should not be amongst my names. There is a whole lot of Irish there from a long session of tidying up entries from a Catholic community around Beaverton--I forget to "unwatch" pages. But if you go to my user page, [[User:goldenoldie]], and look at the names of my trees you will see the surname Lyle (my maiden name). I had a glance at your family trees and immediately noticed Lyle being used as a given name. Having already been surprised to receive a note from someone named Jeff, this was a real double take. --goldenoldie 18:13, 8 April 2013 (EDT)

I don't like the organization of notes between users either. That's why I am writing this here where I can see you side of the conversation. Dsavard showed up around Christmas and then disappeared again--probably when we asked him/her to sort out Quebec.

From your original list the only alt name for Danford Lake is Danford Corners (or is it vice versa?), however the township of Alleyn and Cawood has several, depending whether Thorne got in on the act or not.

The township really ought to be added as a Place. Speaking from the Ontario setup (because I don't know Quebec that well), civil registration and censuses were organized down to the township or incorporated village level. That is, when you look through a book of entries either on Ancestry or on microfilm at Archives of Ontario, you should see that locality handwritten at the top of every page. If it isn't there, the registrar or his clerk was lazy. Hamlets might make their mark as postal addresses (but they might still be considered as part of a rural route), or in land deeds, but for bmd and censuses they were unimportant. "The history that includes the complex changes in municipality" should really be included in the Notes area--for the township. Whether anyone else will ever read it--that's another question--about the organization of WR material.

On your Person pages you will notice that beside the Place box is a description box. What gets entered here does not link with anything else. It is most often used for an occupation or an address, or both. I don't think there is any limit to the length of it. You can also use a "note" which doesn't have the formality of a source but allows a wordier explanation. Balance this with your thoughts about people who lived in a township but not in a hamlet.

Have a look at the Keffer family in Vaughan Township--this isn't part of my family, but I added a lot of information to a very limited offering by a member of the clan from south of the border. (The name Keffer is important in Ontario Genealogical Society circles.) This may give you an idea of how you can build up entries for the 19th and early 20th centuries.

Then, if you want a laugh, go to Admin>Wanted places and have a look at the myriad of "places" used by other members of WeRelate, mostly in 2007 before the GEDCOM inspection team was set up. Only the first 1000 commonest places that didn't get made into Places are listed here. --goldenoldie 02:45, 9 April 2013 (EDT)

[20 February 2016]

"The town's name was sometimes alternatively spelled "Smith's Falls" or "Smith Falls", but "Smiths Falls" is now considered correct." (Source: Wikipedia). Decision probably made by the same committee which changed all the county townships to districts.

Yes, I can make the change by way of a "redirect". That means that all the references to the place will appear under their original spelling but they will all fall together under one heading in the database.

Dallan has improved this feature in the past few months, but it only works for places that have been edited since he made the alteration to the software. If you click on the "What links here" box in the left column of any Place Page you may see places with the words (redirect page) written after them. These places should tie up with the place page you were on (and that's what I'll do with Smith's Falls). If you click on a (redirect page) you will see an arrow leading to the place page (e.g., Smiths Falls). If one "edits" at this stage, i.e., open the edit screen, go to the bottom and hit "save", the redirected page appears under Alt Names on the place page. (In this case "Smith's Falls" will be an Alt Name for "Smiths Falls" for everyone to read.)

It's a great feature for mentioning hamlets that aren't really needed in our database and for interpreting Upper Canada and Canada West as Ontario. It also merges the Source pages for the two placenames.

I work on Place:England now where every one of the 40 counties changed their organization of localities in 1974. Since that is now 42 years ago a lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then.

Hope you understood this. It is always hard to write instuctions.

Regards, --Goldenoldie 19:30, 20 February 2016 (UTC) who could be Jeffs1939 but isn't.

GEDCOM Export Ready [5 May 2016]

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