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2010-2011 Archived Messages

Thomas Hall [2 November 2010]

After reviewing the available information on Thomas Hall, it appears very unlikely that he was born in Prince William County, Virginia. His father Edward Hall was clearly in Augusta County from his arrival/land patent in 1747 until his death in 1796. The information on him coming from Prince William was probably either "family tradition" or perhaps confused with another Thomas Hall.

There was another Thomas Hall in Chalkley's records, but this other Thomas appears to have been perhaps at least 10-15 years older and was not living close to the Beverley Manor area (perhaps around the outer Shenandoah area), where Edward Hall was located.

Hope this helps. You might want to remove the "Prince William" alt birthdate, since it doesn't seem to fit in this instance.

Best regards,

Jim, Volunteer Administrator on WeRelate--Delijim 09:41, 28 October 2010 (EDT)

I am so glad that you brought this up. I am hoping that we can open a collaborative discussion to determine whether or not the Thomas Hall cited in the referenced books (son of Edward and Eleanor (Stuart) Hall, b. 1754) is the same Thomas Hall (DAR patriot A049540) cited in so many DAR applications of the early 20th century, such as the one you had listed on the page. The DAR has accepted/approved these applications (see website) and tied Thomas to the family of Edward and Eleanor as well, but I am bothered by inconsistencies in the facts myself. I have been adding all relevant sources to the pages, hoping to drill down to the primary ones.

For ex. you wrote "The information on him coming from Prince William was probably either "family tradition" or perhaps confused with another Thomas Hall."

• Thomas Hall's 31 Aug 1754 birthdate comes from the various published genealogies. Do you know if a primary source exists? I have often wondered where the original authors got those dates.
• Thomas A049540 Hall's birthdate/place (1760/Prince Wm Co.) comes from his signed and sworn affadavit in his 1833 pension application stating that he was born in Prince William County, VA and was unable to determine his birthdate, but guessed it was around 1760. This same pension application lists no children, but a later widow's application was made by wife, Nancy (no maiden name given). I am happy to post images from the file.

There are also questions about Thomas' marriage(s). Did he really have two wives? The oft-cited wife Nancy - was she Nancy Ann Bartlett, widow of Christopher Chinn and dau. of Thomas Bartlett? Many believe most of the records of his young life were lost in courthouse fires. I am posting sources for marriage facts as well and hope that the genealogical community will respond. Please do add whatever you have.

I hope that we can work together with others to sort this out by citing robust sources (and I really hope that we don't end up disproving so many DAR apps). I know that many researchers have worked on this in the past with no definite resolution. Hopefully pooling resources will enable us to solve some of the mysteries surrounding these folks.

-- Best Wishes, --Cos1776 11:10, 28 October 2010 (EDT) p.s. - I am curious why you are not using the wiki's sourcing format for your sources?

OK, here goes. I firmly believe that we're confusing two different Thomas Hall's. One, son of Edward Hall of Beverley Manor was born in Augusta County in 1764. The other, was born in 1759 in Prince William County, Virginia. I have a candidate for the Thomas Hall in Prince William County, as follows: Thomas Hall.

The interesting thing about this Thomas Hall (not much info on him) is the information contained on his brother, Edward Hall's Revolutionary Pension Application:

Edward Hall.

The information contained seems to mirror much of the information contained in Thomas Hall of Prince William County's application.

So, I think we need to "go back to the drawing board" and determine which records can be positively linked to Thomas Hall of Augusta County and which ones we can positively link to Thomas Hall of Prince William County and later Montgomery County, Kentucky. At some point in time some researcher (perhaps well-intentioned) must have "thought" that the Thomas Hall from Augusta was the one that migrated to Montgomery County, Kentucky, but got it wrong....

The following interesting note from a Rootsweb post regarding the Edward Hall, listed above:

The Edward Hall extended family are not known to be slave holders. Mane Hall has no slaves. All the other early Hall families have slaves. Two of Edward Hall's brothers did live in Montgomery County, KY (Thomas Hall and Micajah Hall). The balance of the early Hall family in Montgomery County, KY were slave holders.

Also, if you read this biography for Edward Hall, it looks like it is referencing Thomas Hall's (b. Prince William County) pension application:

http://www.kykinfolk.com/clark/family/fr036-hall.htm

The following excerpt:

Thomas Hall, brother of Edward mentions a battle on the “upper Blue Licks where we had a pretty severe engagement with the Indians from there we were marched back to Boonesborough, where we were stationed principally until the termination of the War. Engaged during the whole period in occasional and frequent scouting along the frontier settlements. In fact, our whole service partook as good deal of the nature of a frontier guard.” Thomas Hall was in the Battle of Blue Licks. Edward Hall makes no mention of a Battle at Blue Licks, he may have been with Benjamin Logan’s army that arrived after the battle. Brother William Hall was with Benjamin Logan’s troops.

From Thomas Hall's pension application:

After being stationed at that point for for some months, we were marched to Boonesborough; and from there to the upper Blue Licks, under command of Maj. Hoy (?) where we had a pretty severe engagement with the Indians from there we were marched back to Boonesbough, where we were stationed principally until the thermination of the War, engaged, however, during the whole period in occassional and frequent scouting along the frontier settlements.

I think if you compare the two paragraphs above, it is clear that Edward Hall, Thomas Hall's brother is the Thomas Hall from Prince William County (same county as Edward, just born two years apart), with no apparent connection to the Augusta County Hall's.

Anyway, that's my opinion at first glance, so if you have records to prove otherwise, please share them with me. I thing it's probably best that we just start e-mailing our thoughts, rather than filling up your talk page. My e-mail is: Delijim@aol.com

Look forward to resolving this little puzzle.... :)

-Jim

I will respond briefly here and continue via email later. It is reassuring to see someone else arrive at the same conclusion. I am familiar with the above citations that you provided, with the exception of the "slave holder" posting, and although there are many instances where the vitals for these two men have been intertwined in past work, including many publications and most notably the DAR apps - I too believe them to be two separate individuals. I will proceed on that theory and make adjustments.--Cos1776 11:43, 2 November 2010 (EDT)

Agreed, it appears that the DAR application referenced may be the one that has caused all the confusion.... I will also add an advisory on both person pages of the confusion. I've moved some of the other Thomas Hall's information over, you can move the rest, including the source information at your convenience.

Best regards,

Jim:)

Conklni family of Wayne CO, IN [20 June 2011]

Hi, I greatly appreciate the articles that you are adding on my Conklin family of Cambridge City. Thank you.--Sheri 21:35, 19 June 2011 (EDT)

My pleasure. I think that the little glimpses into their lives adds some insight into their character and personality. By the way, I believe that our ancestors were acquaintances, if not friends. I descend from the Pitman and Petro families of Cambridge City. Do you happen to have any old photos of these folks and/or the town during the late 1800s-early 1900s? Those would be great additions to their pages and I am always on the lookout for photos of folks from CC during that time.

Best Wishes!--Cos1776 10:05, 20 June 2011 (EDT)

I have no pictures. I am descended from Benjamin, Felix and Aaron Conklin's older brother Pierson who stayed in Butler County OH. Many members of that family lived in CC at least for awhile. If you live in CC you will find it interesting to know that Coyeta Miller (Mrs. Ernest Miller) is a great-granddaughter of Felix Conklin and was not aware that Benjamin and Felix were brothers. By the way, if the Conklin-Montgomery house there is ever open for a tour, let me know as I would love to see it. Sheri

Actually CC is having a 175th Anniversary celebration starting next weekend and lasting through the 3rd of July. I would bet that the house will be open for tours, if they do that sort of thing. There is contact info on the chamber of commerce website for the town. I do not live in CC. Thank you for all of your good work on werelate - hopefully we are creating something that will be of interest to the future generations.--Cos1776 10:58, 20 June 2011 (EDT)

Place titles [16 September 2011]

I noticed that you renamed the page for Clay Township. I renamed it back to Place:Clay, Wayne, Indiana, United States, without the word (township) in the title. We add township in parentheses to differentiate it from another town/city with the same name, which I was unable to find. Let me know if you have any questions, --Jennifer (JBS66) 11:10, 16 September 2011 (EDT)

Is this something new? I thought that all townships were supposed to have "(township)" in the title to define them as such and standardize everything the same way. It seems to go against all the rules of standardization to only apply the rules to some cases and not others. What is the harm in adding "(township)" to the title if it is one?--Cos1776 11:25, 16 September 2011 (EDT)

It's not new. The Place pages help page describes using (township) in the title only for "US township in a county with a town of the same name". The standard is to title places in the U.S. in the form Place, County, State, United States (whether the place is a City/township/village/borough) and only use (township) as a means of disambiguation. The word Township is added as a type when editing the place, and this information is displayed when a person searches for a place. --Jennifer (JBS66) 11:34, 16 September 2011 (EDT)

john lewis hayes/ lewis lester hayes [28 December 2011]

Are you related to this person? I have been searching for years for info about him. Other than the name, i really dont see any resemblance to the person I've been looking for. He was my grandma's dad, and he left when she was really small, never to be seen or heard from again, she's always wondered what happened tohim. all we know is that he stayed in trouble quite a bit, and often changed his name. Do you think for some reason this may be the same person?--Meme2002 14:11, 28 December 2011 (EST)

I have seen some of your posts on different boards regarding John/Lester/Lewis Hayes and actually that is what got me to thinking about what I knew of the individual in this family. I do know that there was a son, who went by Lester Louis Hayes, and there was a baby in the 1880 census who was listed as "John" and that these two could be the same individual. BUT I really don't know if this is the same guy that you have been looking for. Do you have any other info on him? When was your grandmother born? This Hayes was born in Olin, NC and moved to NJ with his brothers sometime around 1900. He is found living in Monmouth co., NJ in 1900, 1910, 1920, and 1930. He married Hattie G A (Unknown) sometime around 1920. I haven't entered all of this yet onto his page, but I'm working on it. hth--Cos1776 18:46, 28 December 2011 (EST)