User talk:50vicar



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Victoria County [6 July 2012]

Thank you for your message.

Over the past few days I have been moving all the "inhabited places" listed under Ontario province to their appropriate county homes. There must have been at least 200 in the original list, needless to say Victoria County places (including Lindsay!) were amongst them. Task completed last night, now I can get back to sorting out the counties, one by one.

I was born and grew up in Toronto, but have lived in the UK for more than 40 years. Before leaving home I had a job which required me to learn Ontario counties and townships--not by rote, but the project certainly left me more aware of the local governmental structure at the time. Then the powers-that-be decided to change it all!

WeRelate wants places arranged as they were about 1900. This is reasonable. Registers and censuses direct us to the old counties and townships for records of our ancestors. On the other hand, Wikipedia, who WR depends on for descriptions, does not have such limitations. Many articles are written as if the world before 2000 did not exist.

What I want to do for WR is to give each place in Ontario a brief note on where it is, what other places it is related to both before and after regional municipalities, a bit of 19th century history if I can find it, and a template of where to find the basic records. For example, Brantford. Each county's template has a different last paragraph which will depend on what local organization has provided a good website full of genealogical usefulness. Websites should include sufficient details that people closer to the area than I am can find even more material, should they want it.

I am not really familiar with the Kawarthas. We had a few vacations in Haliburton so it was a county we passed through but never stayed in. Good luck in your work with the historical society. Thank you again for getting in touch. --goldenoldie 02:07, 6 July 2012 (EDT)

Mariposa [14 July 2012]

WR has just sent through its automatic notification of your work on Mariposa.

I have added my usual notes on what Ontario Archives has to offer. Nothing else.

Over the past week or so I have been learning how to pare down Wikipedia articles. When I do so I change the usual starting sentence to "This section is based on an article in Wikipedia." or "This section is a precis of an article in Wikipedia." It's a way of removing things about the late 20th and early 21st century that we might not really want to know in 10-20 years time. (I make sure the final Wikipedia credit remains in place.)

Regards --goldenoldie 16:25, 14 July 2012 (EDT)

Place:Victoria, Ontario, Canada [19 July 2012]

Victoria County was amongst the many county "cleanups" I did today (adding the research template and the map).

I am wondering if you would keep an eye open for some Mariposa facts involving my own family (data to be found in WR). Elizabeth Lyle (1837-1879) married Albert Prince circa 1860 and had a daughter Annie born 1861. Albert Prince died in 1866, aged 36. On her marriage registration in 1879 Annie says she was born Mariposa. That is just about all I know.

The Lyles lived in Reach Township, Ontario County. Elizabeth was not at home for the 1861 census. A search via Ancestry and FamilySearch indexes yielded nothing. And Albert Prince is a hard name to search for circa 1860--Prince Albert keeps getting in the way.

Elizabeth was a sister of my great-grandfather who died in 1876, several months before the birth of my grandfather. As a result, all my knowledge about the family is gained from family research with very little hearsay to guide me. So, should you happen to see this little family group in Mariposa, I would appreciate if you would pass on the details.

Thanks and regards --goldenoldie 16:59, 18 July 2012 (EDT)

I'll have a look for her.--50vicar 20:27, 18 July 2012 (EDT)

Local knowledge needed [5 August 2012]


Well, all the counties of eastern Ontario have been inspected and I am now knocking on Victoria's door.

I have already edited the article from Wikipedia (Note the phrase in italics at the beginning of the section.) I would appreciate your reading it and telling me any criticisms you might have. I found that the original writer had several times got so caught up in the legal-ese that he missed what he/she really meant to say. He also didn't know how to spell Colbourne and the Colbourne District is not an article in Wikipedia, but he tried to reference it as if it was.

Further questions

  • As well as a page for Victoria County, WR has posted a page for Kawartha Lakes assuming it is a city in Victoria County. Normally I would simply redirect the Kawartha Lakes page to Victoria County, but in this case I think a bit of explanation is needed on the Kawartha Lakes page. People entering a death that occurred in any place in Kawartha Lakes in the past ten years have a perfect right to put it there. This is going to be a question for admin that they are going to hem and haw about. (Chatham-Kent will be the same.)
  • Quoting from Ontario GenWeb: "In 1858 12 new townships were added to Victoria County. In 1868 seven of the townships were removed from Victoria County (and attached to Muskoka District)." What were the names of these townships? Were the seven that left part of the twelve that came in in the first place?
  • Another WR user named HLJ411 has added Eden Church Cemetery as [[Place:Eden Church Cemetery, Victoria, Ontario, Canada|Eden Church Cemetery]]. Do you know the township, or even better, the community where it is located?

Many thanks from the non-expert

--goldenoldie 06:19, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

I am beginning to think we may be better using email. Let me know and I will give you mine.

With respect to genealogy and the use of Kawartha Lakes, that is something that has bugged me for a long time. To avoid confusion I think it should ALWAYS be called City of Kawartha Lakes. There are just too many other uses of Kawatha Lakes fron a lake chain to a tourist region. A few years back I called city hall and was told that it is City of Kawatha Lakes. Every vehicle, for instance, says City of Kawartha Lakes. It isn't like the City of Toronto which doesn't have a Toronto Lakes or Toronto tourist region.

The second question will mean a visit to one of our expert girls at the library.

HLJ411 is actually me. I use it for personal genealogy and 50vicar (50=street address, vic=victoria county and ar=archives) is used when I help the local historical society. Eden Church, as far as I know, was always rural although it may have been tied with the school at the raod intersection slightly to the south. WR has the cemetery GPS. The church is in Mariposa. The nearest community today is Cambray which is a bit to the east in Fenelon.

I have a question. Do you know how to get/keep a TOC when Wikipedia is mixed with WeRelate? Incidentally I am definitely not a WR expert.--50vicar 11:16, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

I must say I got fooled trying to find Bethany in Manvers last night (someone had put it in Peterborough!). Since I no longer live in Ontario I forget about all these place name changes. It's still Victoria to me.

Table of Contents is a TOC. To avoid a Table of Contents use .

Find the FAC called Help:Formatting. It has lots of useful bits and pieces in it. I keep a printed copy beside me. Sometimes I need to expand it with Help:Places.

--goldenoldie 11:50, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

Adjustments late November [26 October 2012]


Place:Victoria, Ontario, Canada must be the only Ontario page without the Template:Ontario Archives. I think it ought to go in. Other WR users will think V-KL has escaped from Queen's Park.

For other counties I have built a second template which in this case would be called Template:Victoria local provision. This contains all the reference books and links we find that are specific to the county. Because it's a template it can be repeated on every place page within the county. Some people might never find the county page; -- lets face it, some people might never find a "place page". However, to go from any place page within a county to the e-book--now that's convenience.

Your original:
The best and perhaps only source specific to Victoria County is a book by Watson Kirkconnell. The book may be read on the internet or downloaded for searching and reading on ones own computer.

How I would put it in the template:
:*[ Watson Kirkconnell, <full title of book>]. The best and perhaps only source specific to Victoria County written in <add date>. The book may be read on the internet or downloaded for searching and reading on one's own computer.

I took the primary title part out of wiki here so this note wouldn't go haywire when you view it. The Local Provision templates have a uniform sub-title on the page which currently escapes this ancient brain. The template software has had an unfortunate flaw in that the title loses its colour and place unless it is on the second line of the editing page. This has to be fixed every time the template is adjusted. Grrr. I have told dallan about it, but I don't know whether it has been fixed.

All of southern Ontario is now complete to what electricians would call "first fix stage". I am not going to attempt the North. Some counties I did at the end are still missing their local provisions. But I am now working on repeating the basic facts (township names, incorporated towns, a speck of history) to the FamilySearch wiki). It is proving to be just as big a mountain as the WR exercise has been. I am currently trying to get the old Ontario County up to "second fix" from a very tentative first fix.--goldenoldie 02:53, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

I'm always planning on understanding the nuances of WR but never can find the time. Change anything I add if you feel it improves the presentation. I answer genealogy enquiries at our historical society and am finding supplying a link to WR cuts down on the length of my reply, especially now that the county and all its links make sense. Keep up the good work.--50vicar 08:58, 26 October 2012 (EDT)

"Presbyterian Cemetery" in Lindsay [3 January 2013]


I'm looking for a better description of a cemetery currently named as "Presb. Cem., Lindsay, Victoria Co., Ontario". The burial occurred in 1885. The cemetery is probably United Church or general now.

Ontario GenWeb provides a long list to Victoria County, but without checking each individually I can't even guess which one it would be.

Regards --goldenoldie 08:04, 2 January 2013 (EST)

I passed the question on to a local cemetery expert. Answer was there are only 2 Lindsay cemeteries, Riverside (protestant) and St. Mary's (catholic). Can you give us the name of the person who was buried? That would help us locate the cemetery.--50vicar 16:52, 2 January 2013 (EST)

How helpful! surname McRae. Andrew, if I recall correctly. only the one single man--a son of the well respected MPP Duncan McRae.

It's late here and this is being written on a tablet. it does not always spell the way I want it to. pat

Quantz history [14 January 2013]

Not a long history.

The Q's land grant was in Concession 2 Markham. Not all that far from Richmond Hill. Mary Charlotte Phillips Quantz was sister of my gg-grandmother Margaret Phillips Arnold who started out married life in Lot 44 Yonge Street just below Rich Hill, but they moved to Vaughan beyond Bathurst Street in 1840. a couple of generations later in the 1890s both families were in Barrie. The families kept in touch for 3 generations, but I didn't. find the link till last summer.

It looks like 3 Quantz sisters married Keffers and there was another marriage back in PA as well. Really interesting stuff. --goldenoldie 17:59, 14 January 2013 (EST)