User:Ekjansen/Old1

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Welcome

Welcome to WeRelate, your virtual genealogical community. We're glad you have joined us. At WeRelate you can easily create ancestor web pages, connect with cousins and other genealogists, and find new information. To get started:

If you need any help, I will be glad to answer your questions. Just click on my signature link below and then click on the “Leave a message” link under my name in the upper left corner of my profile page. Thanks for participating and see you around! Debbie Freeman --DFree 14:13, 3 August 2010 (EDT)

Two pages you may be interested in [12 August 2010]

I thought you may be interested in our Nederland Portal and the Netherlands forum. We have just a few users currently watching the pages, but I hope they will be places for Dutch users to learn about WeRelate and converse with each other. --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:23, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

GeneaNet [18 August 2010]

Klaas, I believe that you have your genealogy on GeneaNet correct? Do you know if places can be changed globally, as you did for your gedcom file earlier this week? If you do know, can you perhaps offer some suggestions to this discussion. Much thanks, --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:50, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

Jennifer, I do have my original Database local in Aldfaer (which is really good) I do sometimes an export to geneanet but I am not working at all in this programm. In the Aldfaer-Programm I could change the places easily. I will advise Bergsmit about this. Klaas, --Ekjansen 08:02, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

Klaas, thank you for taking the time to respond to Fred. I'm not familiar with how GeneaNet works, but I'll take a look at it later in the week to see what I can figure out. Your approach makes sense - your most current data is on your home computer, and you export that to Geneanet - rather than the other way around. --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:57, 18 August 2010 (EDT)


Hallo Fred, na een aanvraag van Jennifer, vanwege de voor WeRelate niet ideale vorm van de plaatsnamen in jouw gedcom, kan ik je vertellen hoe ik mijn gegevens aaangepast heb: De gedcom heb ik in het programma Aldfaer ingelezen. Daar kun je onder de rubriek stamboom, onderhoud naar het veld plaats clicken. Daar kun je alle in de gedcom gebruikte plaatsnamen corrigeren, dus gemeente, provincie en land (alles uitgeschreven) toevoegen. Het is een vrij langdurend proces, maar je hoeft maar een keer een plaats aan te passen, en in alle velden staat de plaats, met de nodige aanvullingen. Ik had ook nog even een typefoutje gemaakt, en moet nu zo'n 500 personen corrigeren, dus het is wel nodig precies te werken. Misschien is dit makkelijker als via geneanet. Klaas --Ekjansen 08:12, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

Hallo Klaas, ik kan moeilijk overweg met Aldfaer, ik heb het wel op mijn computer geïnstalleerd. Ik heb ooit mijn hele database van Geneanet (waar ik mijn werkbasis heb) als gedcom naar Aldfaer overgebracht, daar bewerkt en toen weer teruggezet naar Geneanet. Dat werd een hopeloze puinhoop, diverse gegevens kwamen niet op de juiste plaats terug en sommige helemaal niet. Ik weet niet in hoeverre Aldfaer inmiddels verbeterd is, ik spreek van enkele jaren terug.--Fred Bergman 09:03, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

Deleting redirects [27 August 2010]

Klaas, do you mind if I delete redirects to pages we share? Let me explain...

When pages are merged, the former page becomes a redirect to the current page. These can be seen by clicking on What links here. An example is Person:Pieter De Wal (5). When I click on What links here, I can see that Person:Pieter De Wal (7) is a redirect page. This (7) page can essentially be deleted because it's empty. However, this page does contain the history for that page. That history does not transfer over to the (5) page. Redirects can stay, but I like to delete them for 3 reasons. First, redirects remain on our watchlists. Second, they take up index numbers that can be reused. Third, and most important to me, when I delete them I see a redlink which helps me to keep track of which changes you've made that I've put into my home computer.

If you have no objections, I'd like to delete the redirects to pages that we are both watching. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:27, 27 August 2010 (EDT)

Jennifer, I agree fully to delete the redirects to those pages. I am a bit irritated to get the duplicates again in my list after I merged the data. Now I understand, the data will be merged but the pages will stay, so I think it better to remove these kinds of duplicates.--Ekjansen 07:16, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
Klaas, the duplicates on your list should now be gone. That list is updated daily (around 7:00 am EST I've noticed). The redirects won't cause them to remain on the list. I can understand your irritation, however, and it is my fault :-) My project has many, many duplicates. It was a result of how I obtained the information. I gathered the L'deel and F'deel marriages and then the L'deel births. I then ran it all through GenMerge. GenMerge combined probably 20,000 of the dupes, but left a few thousand. Some of these duplicates show up on your list due to the pages you share with my (currently messy) project... I never thought anybody would link in this early! I'm working hard to merge things, and I'm still working to bring in the last of my project gedcoms. When it's all done, we'll have all the marriages for both L'deel and F'deel and all the births for L'deel - which to me is exciting! Tons of work, but I love it! So... I apologize for the messiness and duplicates and I appreciate all of the wonderful data you've brought in.
Regarding the redirects, I'm glad you don't mind me deleting them.--Jennifer (JBS66) 07:48, 27 August 2010 (EDT)

Places [30 September 2010]

In response to your comment on Place talk:East Holland Cemetery, Allegan, Michigan, United States, quite honestly I haven't exactly figured out how to handle places :-)

What I've been doing currently is adding coordinates to places. I obtain those using Acme Mapper. I can search for a place (or move to a location using the mouse). Then, the coordinates for the place that appears underneath the + sign on the map will be displayed in the box on the bottom right of the screen. Example: if I type Marrum, Friesland in the white box and press Find, a + will appear on the map over Marrum. Then the box above will say N 53.32329 E 5.8000. I then enter these numbers into the fields on WeRelate.

For cemeteries, I am adding in categories in addition to coordinates. For NL, those take the form [[Category:Cemeteries of PROVINCIE, Netherlands| cemetery name]]. For the U.S. they take the form [[Category:Cemeteries of COUNTY, STATE, United States| cem. name w/o word cemetery]]. Our Portal:Cemetery provides additional details. Now for U.S. cemeteries, they generally have the word cemetery in the title. I've noticed the cemeteries you've added for NL don't. I'm wondering if we should be adding something in the title to distinguish it as a cemetery, like begraafplaats.

I do think it would be advisable to come up with a consensus regarding how to name NL places. I have more time to work on this, now that I'm back from my vacation. The big question is: should we include gemeente in the titles? One example is Rottum, Friesland. We now have Place:Rottum, Haskerland, Friesland, Netherlands and Place:Rottum, Schoterland, Friesland, Netherlands. If we were to have only a page titled Rottum, Friesland, Netherlands - then it could include details within the page about jurisdiction changes (of which we know there are many in NL!).

One of WeRelate's general rules is to name places as they were historically, around 1900. The rationale for this is that many gedcoms have historical data with historical place names. As more gedcoms are uploaded, this need becomes more apparent. Example: Place:Den Horn, Groningen, Netherlands and Place:Den Horn, Aduard, Groningen, Netherlands. These will need to be merged, but to which title? I'm not really sure which way to go with this.

I also think we could use a consensus on NL place Types. I think the default is Unknown, for the U.S. we add Inhabited Place. We also have used gemeente, dorp, stad, city, buurtschap. These place types help to organize places on its parent page. Sorry for having more questions than answers... --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:34, 30 September 2010 (EDT)

Jennifer; I understand this is really complicated. I myself was born in Amstelveen, the main village of Nieuwer-Amstel. So in my passport Nieuwer-Amstel is my official place of birth. 1964 the name of the gemeente (municipality) was changed in Amstelveen. At least they didn't change the province like what has been done with Loosdrecht. This municipality was merged with 's-Graveland and Nederhorst den Berg into Wijdemeren (2002), Loosdrecht changed even the province from Utrecht to Noord-Holland. 's-Graveland was already a merge of Kortenhoef, Ankeveen and 's-Graveland in 1966.
It is absolutely possible to find even more complicated constructions. So we better go back to the smallest part: Dorp, Buurtschap, Stad. But even this will not work for all cases, because Woerden or Oudewater changed the province (even forth and back again!) So wat do we do with a person born in Loosdrecht (Utrecht) and buried in Loosdrecht, Wijdemeren, Noord-Holland. Even the province gives difficulties.
I have a guide of all places in the Netherlands: Van Goor's Aardrijkskundig Woordenboek van Nederland (1942) which gives me (in my opinion) the best information about all localities in the Netherlands. Wikipedia is not always convincing.
My advise how to admin the Dutch places is not yet definitive. I think the best is to go to the lowest level and add the co-ordinates (at least those they will last). The linking with the 'Gemeente' should include the period from-thru, and more than one link should be possible, the same is for the link to the province. And when we think of the Eastern-European countries, or just France and Germany even the link to the Country should be completed with the period.
For the cemeteries, I can't give an easy advise. Partly they do have begraafplaats in the name, or even the old-fashioned Kerkhof, and other cemeteries just have a name without distinguishing. Partly Begraafplaats is first: Begraafplaats Zorgvlied or afterwards: Zuiderbegraafplaats, where the second is the complete name.
In general the category should be Begraafplaats (at the same level as Dorp, Vlek, Buurtschap, Stad, Gemeente).--Klaas (Ekjansen) 08:29, 30 September 2010 (EDT)

An example of another option is this: Place:Bozum, Baarderadeel, Friesland, Netherlands. It is titled as it was around 1900, but Place:Littenseradiel, Friesland, Netherlands is listed as an also-located in place. This way, Bozum appears on both the Baarderadeel and Littenseradiel pages.

I am leaning towards having more detail in our place titles (ie keeping the gemeente). I went to WatWasWaar and typed in Buinen, and it displayed it as part of the Borger Volkstelling 1899. It also appears on the 1868 atlas. Dallan has mentioned elsewhere "It's really a question of what levels records were located in, and what levels people are likely to put in their GEDCOM's". If documentation can be found at the gemeente level, then that would be a reason to add it to the place title.

If the places that you add (such as Place:Buinen, Borger, Drenthe, Netherlands) are as they were around 1900, then I can just go through the duplicates, move the data to the new page and make Place:Buinen, Drenthe, Netherlands redirect to Place:Buinen, Borger, Drenthe, Netherlands. I don't have access to Aardrijkskundig Woordenboek van Nederland (is this similar to Van der Aa's version?), but I've been using the Repertorium van Nederlandse gemeenten 1812-2006 from the www.knaw.nl site. --Jennifer (JBS66) 11:48, 30 September 2010 (EDT)

Multi-part surname bug [12 October 2010]

Klaas, it looks like WR still has the bug that causes surnames with more than 3 parts to be titled incorrectly.

I noticed People and Families in Category:Van Harinxma Thoe Heeg surname are missing the 'Heeg' part of the surname in their titles. You can rename them by clicking on Rename in the left menu. --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:17, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

2 family pages - delete? [13 October 2010]

I noticed that you deleted the pages that link to these two families. Would you like me to delete the family pages too? Family:Heere Doeckes and Nn Unknown (2) and Family:Doecke Herozn and Nn Unknown (2). --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:10, 13 October 2010 (EDT)

Jennifer, yes please and thank you. --Klaas (Ekjansen) 07:44, 13 October 2010 (EDT)

Choosing page title during merges [14 October 2010]

Hello Klaas, I'm looking over your merges and have a question and a comment. My question is on Person:Eets Pijters (1). You chose Pieters as the spelling during the merge. I completely trust you on this - but the page title remained Pijters. I think you would want that to be titled Pieters, correct? I can rename this if you'd like.

What I think happened is that during a merge, you have the option to choose what the page title will be during the second step of merging. It is not easy to see, and hard to explain... After pressing the Prepare to Merge button, it brings you to another page. On that page are page titles with a little circle underneath. One side of the comparison has a dot inside the circle and one does not. The circle with the dot is how the page will be titled. Oftentimes the software is smart and chooses the same spelling as we've chosen in the name fields. Other times it's not so smart. We can force a different page spelling by clicking inside the empty circle, which will move the dot from the wrong title to the correct title. I hope this makes sense. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:36, 14 October 2010 (EDT)

Dutch resources [22 October 2010]

Klaas, you have referenced a few sources that are interesting. I'm wondering if you can provide more details so that I can look into possibly obtaining them. The first is Genealogysk Jierboekje. Is that a subscription or are past issues available on CD? The second is a book by Auke de Vries that you said was about the ancestry of his grandchild. Is that Voorouders van Saskia Jildu Fikkers, geboren 27 juni 1966 te Leeuwarden / door haar grootvader Auke de Vries? I also want to look into getting a copy of the Van Goor's Aardrijkskundig Woordenboek van Nederland you mentioned. I think it would be a helpful resource to have. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:42, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

The Genealogysk Jierboekje is not yet available on cd, also subscribe!. I am also waiting for this to come, because it's incomplete, quite a few are sold off. I do have only about 10 of it. One should become member of the Fryske Akademy, but than you receive a lot of stuff all in Frisian which I can't read, to understand the speaking goes easier. So I dropped my membership.
The book you mention is correct. The only problem, no sources.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 07:35, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

I'm also thinking about becoming a member of a genealogical organization in the Netherlands. I can't believe that I haven't done this yet! I was looking at Tresoar's website and I should look at the CBG. Do you have any suggestions in this regard? Thanks, --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:42, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

I am member of the Centraal Bureau voor Genealogie, 4 times a year a journal with a lot of new publications mentioned, and an online portal for members to research certain digitalised stuff. You can book your membership online. Also member of the NGV (Gens Nostra) just as a tradition, but never use their services. --Klaas (Ekjansen) 07:35, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

MySources [27 October 2010]

Klaas, as I look at your recent gedcom, it's bringing up a question for me about MySources. Pages like this Family:Hendrik Schregardus and Gerdina Vleminck (2) are sourced back to MySource:Ekjansen/Akte 102. However, any person or family with a source aktenummber of 102 links back to this same empty page. If you exclude sources during gedcom upload, then you lose the reference, which you certainly don't want to do. The MySource pages themselves don't end up being too useful since they're not unique. Thoughts? --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:52, 27 October 2010 (EDT)

Jennifer, I also realised, MySources to be not that adequate. When I drop it, it's gone, when not, it's for anyone except myself useless. The solution did not come up to my mind. Anyway I could excempt the sources already by the selection of the gedcom in Aldfaer. I do have to work with the sources in WeRelate directly I am afraid. --Klaas (Ekjansen) 08:01, 27 October 2010 (EDT)
MySources can be useful if they are unique to a particular person or family. An example is MySource:Parsa/Jacob Varner Certificate of Disability for Discharge 1863. WR doesn't want these types of pages being Sources, because they are specific to a small number of individuals. If Aldefaer doesn't let you exclude only certain sources, you can also exclude them during the gedcom review process. --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:13, 27 October 2010 (EDT)
I will think about it. --Klaas (Ekjansen) 08:16, 27 October 2010 (EDT)


gelukt [28 October 2010]

Beste Klaas,

zoals je ziet is het mij gelukt je database op WERELATE te vinden. Bedankt.

Rob de Bruijn--robbruyn 07:26, 28 October 2010 (EDT)

Op deze site vind je niet al mijn gegevens zoals op rootsweb, ik ben bezig mijn gegevens suksessievelijk hier te plaatsen, in de hoop daardoor ook dankzij andere WeRelaters aanvullingen te ontvangen. --Klaas (Ekjansen) 07:37, 28 October 2010 (EDT)

Gaele van der West and Hendrikje van der Heide [29 October 2010]

Klaas, it seems something odd happened when you renamed and/or merged this family. There are two pages Family:Gaele Van Der West and Hendrikje Van Der Heide (1) and Family:Unknown and Hendrikje Van Der Heide (1). You also recently renamed Family:Gaele Van Der West and Unknown (1) to Family:Gaele Van Der West and Hendrikje Van Der Heide (2). However, Family:Gaele Van Der West and Hendrikje Van Der Heide (2) redirects to Family:Unknown and Hendrikje Van Der Heide (1).

If they should be only one family, you can click on Admin>Compare pages and underneath Compare Families put each of these in separate fields then press the Compare button.

  • Family:Gaele Van Der West and Hendrikje Van Der Heide (1)
  • Family:Unknown and Hendrikje Van Der Heide (1)

When you get to the second screen of the merge, take a look at the little circle underneath the page names. One will be filled and one will be empty. The one that is filled will be the chosen title for the page. To move this (and choose the other page title), click inside the empty circle to fill that one in. This is hard to explain - but easy to do! Let me know if you have any questions. --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:33, 29 October 2010 (EDT)

Registers Van de Burgerlijke Stand [1 November 2010]

I'm wondering if I should rename the Oostdongeradeel Burgerlijke Stand source before you get too far into your project.

I know of at least 3 users who think the Registers Van de needs to be done away with. Do you have any suggestions on how to proceed with this in terms of eliciting support from the other Dutch users (and maybe starting a renaming project with multiple users)? --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:14, 1 November 2010 (EDT)

Jennifer, yes, do rename this source. I do agree with you to drop the Registers Van, which is a bit a useless add-on. But to rename all sources as a very Dutch project means quite an effort to be managed. I will keep to run through the Oostdongeradeel-Marriage-Records, having done the years 1811-1823 and uploading year by year for better control and 'repair' of the sources. So for the moment I don't think to start to adjust the Dutch sources. When I am finished with Dongeradeel (hope not after years) than I will be available for other projects. But I do support the Idea of renaming the sources anyway.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 06:23, 1 November 2010 (EDT)
Thank you, I will rename the source. I didn't mean to imply that you'd need to be a part of a renaming project. I know that you have your hands full with your current projects. I think I was looking for advice on how to rally the Dutch users. I don't think that is particularly my strong suit. It seems the forum is nice, but how one goes from discussions to decisions is another matter. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:34, 1 November 2010 (EDT)
One more thing... I heard that FamilySearch is planning to change their URL after the beta stage is over. That means that your links to the images may not work thereafter. We do have a template that directs users to the initial screen of an image collection - then the URL can be changed in one location instead of multiple pages when the time comes. You don't have to use it, but I thought I'd mention it. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:43, 1 November 2010 (EDT)

Foto [4 November 2010]

Hallo Klaas, vraagje, hoe heb jij je foto op de user page gekregen, is het een embedded image?--Kalishoek 14:33, 4 November 2010 (EDT)

eerst via de Tab 'Add' heb ik de foto geuploaded ofwel upgeloaded en daarna staat het plaatje ter beschikking om als embedded picture geplaatst te worden in bijv. je user-page. --Klaas (Ekjansen) 18:13, 4 November 2010 (EDT)

Vrijblijvend bericht [9 nov 2010]

Hallo Klaas!
Hierbij maak ik je attent op de mogelijkheid nevenstaand sjabloon op jouw gebruikerspagina te plaatsen, maar als je dat niet wilt, kun je dit bericht ook gewoon verwijderen.--Fred Bergman (User:Bergsmit) 04:04, 9 November 2010 (EST)

Hallo Fred, ja dat heb ik gezien, ik had deze box al eens op mijn site ingevoegd, maar ik vind het te druk, ik hou van een beetje kleinere en rustigere site. Daarom heb ik op mijn user-site ook de families die ik uitzoek zonder alle toevoegingen geplaatst, dan is de noodzaak om te scrollen ook geringer. Je kunt misschien een user-page Charlemagne maken, daar zou ik dan een link naartoe plaatsen.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 04:32, 9 November 2010 (EST)

Hallo Klaas, je kunt ook rechtstreeks naar de Categorie verwijzen: User:Ekjansen
groeten --Fred Bergman (User:Bergsmit) 04:36, 9 November 2010 (EST)

Hiltje Thomas State [10 November 2010]

I'm not sure if you want me to leave questions here or on talk pages. I don't want the questions to get lost in all of the merging and minor editing I'm doing. Well, I'll leave this question here...

Person:Hiltje Thomas State (1). Is Thomas her patronymic name?

Also, my gedcom is done importing. You might be safe to turn your email notifications back on :-) --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:12, 10 November 2010 (EST)

I read at least all inputs on the talk sites, so you can place the messages on the to the persons adjected talk-sites. Thomas is a patronym yes.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 08:22, 10 November 2010 (EST)
Ok, I will put questions there then. Now I have another question. When I make edits to a page, such as editing a birth date or adding a death location, I indicate that in the summary field of the edit. Do you notice those, or would you like me to make a note on the talk page as well? --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:27, 10 November 2010 (EST)
I have a look through te changes and try to edit my own database in aldfaer, it's just becoming a fulltime job.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 08:30, 10 November 2010 (EST)


Audrey Hepburn [12 nov 2010]

Klaas, I became excited this morning when I realized that Audrey Hepburn connects into my project (tangentially). I went hunting around for some primary sources, and just realized that you have all this information in your database! Would you at all consider uploading her ancestors to WeRelate? I don't want to create a lot of work for you though, I could help with the import if you'd like. I do have a question on person titles. You have Adriana Maria Rolina barones Collot d'Escury=Person:Adriana Collot d'Escurij (1). Is barones in the Prefix field, or would this come through into WR as a surname?

There also seems to be a connection between Audrey and Mati Hari (through her husband). I'll have to investigate this a little more. --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:44, 11 November 2010 (EST)

O yes you found it! I do have ancestors in common with Audrey, I will have a look for the size of the gedcom to be produced. The problem are the sources, mostly from the Nederlands Adelsboek (cd) and Nederland's Patriciaat (cd) all data from secondary sources, not checked with the original sources, but also not really of bad quality.
The problem with the titles of the Dutch Gentry is, the barones or graaf comes between given and surname (like van, van der etc), jonkheer (Jhr) and jonkvrouw (Jkvr) comes as prefix before the given name. --Klaas (Ekjansen) 10:05, 11 November 2010 (EST)

I am working on this job, you might have realised, that your husband has ancestors in common with Audrey!--Klaas (Ekjansen) 03:40, 12 November 2010 (EST)

I had not noticed that, thank you for bringing it to my attention! I see that both files have Anna Baama in common. Very interesting...

Master of Laws [12 November 2010]

I have a question for you. I've noticed in your file references to a title of Mr. I take it that this is not the Mr. or Mrs. that I am accustomed to in modern usage? Even the terms Jonkheer and Jonkvrouw are relatively new to me. This is an area that I've not yet delved into. --Jennifer (JBS66) 05:47, 12 November 2010 (EST)
Mr. is a title after finishing studies in law, All Dutch lawyers are Mr. (Meester in de rechten,Master of Laws) also females, 2 daughters of my sister are Mr. !
Jhr (Jonkheer) and Jkvr (Jonkvrouw) is the lowest gentry level in the Netherlands equals about the German Freiherr and Freiin. further we have Baron, Graaf (count) but no Hertog (Duke) at all. Not to forget the Queen and the Princes.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 05:59, 12 November 2010 (EST)

Iets om erg in te hebben is dat jonkheer/jonkvrouwe predicaten zijn en geen titels. Ook de correcte plaats is van belang. Het predicaat gaat vooraf aan de gehele naam, de adelstitel gaat vooraf aan de achternaam.

Voorbeeld:

  • jonkheer dr. F.K.M. van Nispen tot Pannerden
  • mr. H.C.R.M. baron de Wijkerslooth de Weerdesteijn

(zie website Hoge Raad van Adel)

Leo

So in the case of Person:Arnoud Van Heemstra (1) - his name is Arnoud Jan Anne Aleid Baron Van Heemstra. If we have his surname as Baron Van Heemstra, then he would be put into the Category:Baron Van Heemstra surname instead of the Category:Van Heemstra surname. It seems Baron would be a prefix to the Surname, and WR doesn't have a field for that. Is putting Baron in the surname field correct? Once they become a Baron, does their surname change to Baron Van Heemstra? Sorry for the elementary questions...

Another option might be to move Baron to the end of the given name field. Then it won't import into the title (only the very first given name will be), and it won't import as part of the surname. It will, however, display in the correct place on the page.

Since genealogy software varies - ie RootsMagic does not have a surname prefix field - then we are going to get a variety of "solutions" to this problem coming through in gedcoms. --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:03, 12 November 2010 (EST)

The choice means take the one which is less worse. I would prefer to put the Baron or Graaf at the end of the given name. The surname for all parts of the family (if they are baron or jonkheer or neither of that) stays the same which is absolutely the best.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 10:18, 12 November 2010 (EST)
I did my part of the job. So if you want to move the titles Baron, Barones, Graaf, Gravin, des H.R.Rijksbaron, ridder, to the Prefix I think this is OK. The double names Gevers Deynoot and Hora Siccama are really double names.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 07:42, 12 November 2010 (EST)
Thank you for importing this! I will have a closer look and move things around later today. --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:31, 12 November 2010 (EST)

I moved the titles onto the end of the given name fields. I returned the file to user review in case you wanted to take a look at it.

I have questions on a couple of people:

  • Regnerus Hendrik Sjuck Gerrold Juckema van Burmania baron Rengers - which part is the surname?
  • Justinus Sjuck Gerrold Juckema van Burmania baron Rengers - which part is the surname?
  • barones van Frederica Pallandt - should this be Frederica barones van Pallandt?
  • (Jhr.) Mr. Hans Willem (de Blocq) van Scheltinga - why are there parentheses?

I can rename the pages in the following categories when it is all imported:

Thank you, --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:21, 12 November 2010 (EST)

I would place Juckema also as part of the surname (genlias does this also)
You are right (of course) with Frederica Pallandt, yes this should be.

Hans Willem de Block van Scheltinga, neither was Jonkheer nor was given the name de Block, but he used it! One (secondary source) gives de Block another not. Jhr must be dropped definitely, I will do the edit. --Klaas (Ekjansen) 13:17, 12 November 2010 (EST)

Ok, I fixed the Juckema van Burmania Rengers people and imported the file. I also added a category above that I will rename when this file is done importing. Thank you for working on this - and thank you also for the lessons in Dutch nobility titles. It was interesting to learn that a female can be a Mr :-) --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:55, 12 November 2010 (EST)

haersma.ged [13 November 2010]

I imported your gedcom. There are just 2 categories whose contents will need to be renamed:

I am sure that Person:Epo Sjuck Burmania Vegelin van Claerbergen (1) will in some way connect to your file. My data goes back to Family:Assuerus Vegelin van Claerbergen and Christina van Burmania (1). --Jennifer (JBS66) 04:48, 13 November 2010 (EST)

paulus.ged [15 November 2010]

Klaas, before I import this gedcom, I would like to contact Dallan about the multi-part surname bug. I want to ask how difficult it is to fix and if he can move it to the top of his to-do list, because it does effect quite a few pages in this file. I'm going to indicate the categories with potential errors here, just so I don't misplace the information.

In the meantime, there are a few items for your review. Many may be correct, it's just that I am unfamiliar with such early Dutch genealogy.

For the following: can you explain the use of gezegd? Is this part of their surname?

  • Borst gezegd Ban
  • Briel gez. Welhouck
  • Briell gez. Welhouck
  • Gansneb gen. Tengnagell
  • in het Hart gez. Jan Pelser
  • De Jager Gezegd Venator
  • Van Beresteyn Gezegd De Boer
  • Van Bueren Gez Van Rechteren

For the following: Can you double-check, these may be fine but I was wondering about the placement of names in the surname field.

  • Gerritje Jan Berendr.
  • Agnies Jorden Garbrantzndr.
  • Herman Lodewijksz. van Dam
  • Aeff Pieter Thaemsdr.
  • Pouwel Gerritszsdr. (there are a few with this surname)
  • Tromp Heer Van Voorburg
  • Theodorus Jongkind(t) - this one needs the parentheses removed from the name, and the alt. spelling put on its own line


Klaas, Dallan has informed me that he has fixed this bug, in addition to other improvements to the gedcom upload process. He plans to add the new code to the site later this week.

There are two options. The first is that we could upload this file now, and rename the pages affected by the "surname bug". The other option is to wait until later in the week and upload this file again. That means that you would have to reprocess the file again (match pages, places etc). I'm not sure how much time you've invested in this file so far. Let me know how you'd like to proceed. Thank you, --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:36, 14 November 2010 (EST)

Jennifer, it should be the best to wait, but than it should be sure to have the bug fixed within a few days. In the mean time I even have a second gedcom waiting (still on my computer) for import. On saturday I had a little computerproblem, my aldfaer said something goes wrong and I lost all the work of last saturday (marriages Oostdongeradeel 1825) so I was a little unfriendly with my computer (still works).
Do you have me an advise how to trace families with unknown in the heading although both partners are in the record. Due to my failures I made while merging I found by accident a few families with wrong (not actualised) headings. I am not speaking of the illegitimes, there where the fathers ran away. Is there a kind of checking-tool for all discrepancies between the names of the family-partners and the record-name?
Further to your question about double or triple patronyms: In those wonderful old times, you will find names with father, gf, ggf and gggf: Lijsbeth Gielis Pieter Rombouts Cheeuszdr. I think the surname made quite a few things easier. I think the father brings the most important part of the 'surname' so I put the whole line in this field, but maybe its better to put this in the suffix field?--Klaas (Ekjansen) 02:24, 15 November 2010 (EST)

Oh that is so terribly frustrating! I'm glad that it was only one day's worth of work, and not the entire database. Do you back that up regularly - preferably off your computer like on a CD or online location?

There is a way that you can search for those mistakes during merging. It is not as nice of a solution as your suggestion of a checking-tool, which WR doesn't have.

  1. Go to Admin>Logs - choose Merge Logs from the drop-down box and put Ekjansen in the user box then press Go. This will show you all of the merges you've done.
  2. Press 500 to show all the merges on one page.
  3. Now hold down the CTRL button and press the F key. This may differ on international keyboards, and your browser may also have another way to Find a word on a page.
  4. Type Unknown into the box to search for that word on the page. Advance down to look at each instance of Unknown. If a line has text in red - that means that I've deleted the redirect page. Click on the pages to check if the names match the title.
  5. Family:Jan Bouta and Unknown (3) and Family:Cornelis Kremer and Unknown (1) are 2 that I found.
Well the problem is not only the unknowns, which I could repair, but also the ones where I overviewed the patronyms in the surname. These are a bit difficult to find, because they come not only from merges.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 09:03, 15 November 2010 (EST)
I can't think of an easy way to find these. You may have better luck finding them in Aldfaer first (by searching the surname field for a space). With a file the size of yours, that is tough too. If you know of instances where you put the patronym in the surname field, you could search WR for that. Searching for Klaas that way, I found this page Person:Jacoba Klaas Lieuwen (1) and from there you can see all the pages in that category at the bottom of the page. Sorry I can't be more helpful on this! --Jennifer (JBS66) 09:37, 15 November 2010 (EST)

Regarding names, I don't know if there is a best solution. We're trying to "fit a square peg into a round hole" here. That, coupled with the fact that WR has this "rule" about first name - last name titles doesn't help the situation at all. Gedcoms are going to be imported in a variety of ways based upon the user's personal preferences. Your example page could come in as Lijsbeth Cheeuszdr, Lijsbeth Gielis, Lijsbeth Gielis Pieter Rombouts Cheeuszdr, etc. When the name is First Patronymic then that is easier because the patronym goes in the surname field. Maybe I'd consider how I would want to find these pages in categories. If categories are generated by surname - where would you think to look for Lijsbeth? --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:38, 15 November 2010 (EST)

‎Leeuw.ged [21 November 2010]

Hallo Klaas, I am reviewing your Leeuw.ged file and I have a quick question. You have a few unconnected people (no parents or spouse) and I wanted to make sure that is what you intended. A few of their names are: Jkvr. Catherine Storm van 's Gravesande b:1931; Johannes Swart b:1876; Bartele Johannes Swierstra; Klaaske Sybrandy B:7 MAR 1886; Jantje Terpstra B:11 SEP 1923, etc,

Just let me know if this is ok, and I will proceed to import this. Dank u wel, --Jennifer (JBS66) 17:45, 20 November 2010 (EST)‎

Jennifer, I think the partner's didn't make it because of my local living filter. It makes no sense to let one of them go through.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 01:41, 21 November 2010 (EST)
Can you email me a copy of this Leeuw gedcom? I'd like to compare it to what has been imported. Unfortunately there are considerably more "orphans" than I saw at first glance. It will probably be somewhere around 200 people. I want to see if they were in your gedcom and if there is a pattern to what was missed. I am also creating a list so you know what's been excluded for this reason. --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:58, 21 November 2010 (EST)
FYI - I edited Klaas Hayes Stellingwerf and moved Hayes to the given name field. This looked correct according to Genlias. I also moved a few Ds. and Jkvr. to the prefix field. --Jennifer (JBS66) 09:08, 21 November 2010 (EST)
I have seen these 'problems', which I edited in my local database after sight, but I cannot edit during upload. Wasn't there also a baron to be moved?--Klaas (Ekjansen) 09:12, 21 November 2010 (EST)
Yes, I caught those as well and moved them. --Jennifer (JBS66) 09:14, 21 November 2010 (EST)

I put the list of orphaned pages here: Ferwerderadeel and Leeuwarderadeel Project/Orphan pages. --Jennifer (JBS66) 09:37, 21 November 2010 (EST)

‎ferdeel.ged [22 November 2010]

Klaas, when you have a moment, can you email me the ferdeel.ged? I want to use RootsMagic to generate a report of the orphans in the file, rather than going through one-by-one like I did for Ldeel. Thank you, --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:16, 22 November 2010 (EST)

I found just two items that I edited during review: Trijntje Piebes Halma and Trijntje Mames Slootmeyer. I moved their patronymic names to the given name field. Your file is importing now. Wow - I bet you are glad to be done with that one! Thank you for all the new puzzle pieces - this will be fun to piece together. --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:51, 22 November 2010 (EST)

The problem is, when I do this in parts I have even more matches to do, twice or three times the same match. So I am really finished now.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 11:00, 22 November 2010 (EST)
Really finished... only with gedcom imports right :-) I wonder how you can import more of your Dongeradeel project in the future... If you do more than a few years at a time, the gedcom is too big. However, you have a lot of matching overlap when you do smaller chunks like that. There is the possibility of appealing to Dallan to allow a larger gedcom upload - but there are drawbacks with that too. --Jennifer (JBS66) 11:17, 22 November 2010 (EST)

Duplicate Family [27 November 2010]

Klaas, I noticed that you have a family that appears to be a duplicate of one that User:Smidtman has. Family:Geert Ludema and Jelkjen Egberts (1) and Family:Geert Lulofs and Jelkje Egberts (1).

Is it possible for you to work with Henk to merge this family? I'll leave this note on his talk page as well. Thanks--Jennifer (JBS66) 13:58, 27 November 2010 (EST)

‎sophia.ged [8 December 2010]

Klaas, I have just one quick question on this gedcom. Jacoba Grietina Having Steenhuis - should Having been in the given name or surname field? I also found two Ds. in the given name field and moved them into the prefix field. --Jennifer (JBS66) 11:56, 8 December 2010 (EST)

Genlias does it as given name, Allegroningers once as double surname but most as given name, so I think given name is the best even with an additional s (Havings). I realised that the edit of individuals stays blocked, so I am sorry I that I missed these Ds.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 12:11, 8 December 2010 (EST)
Editing wasn't a problem at all, no need to be sorry! I edited Jacoba's name and put Havings in the given name field. The file is importing now.--Jennifer (JBS66) 12:28, 8 December 2010 (EST)

User language boxes [13 December 2010]

Klaas, I see that you have the NL language box on your userpage with notes about French, German, and English. If you are interested, I finished creating the various boxes for those languages. They can be found here. Let me know if there are any other languages you'd need me to add. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:31, 13 December 2010 (EST)

Jennifer, only Dutch is my native language all other mentioned are just secondary (German after 40 years in Switzerland - not too bad, English has been always my 2nd language and French just for the understanding but not really strong). I think it is a bit too massive to have 4 language-boxes, but I could place the Dutch one at the top of my page and the others down under (not that far as Australia) so only by scrolling you can see them.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 08:12, 13 December 2010 (EST)
I would say that "not too bad" is a modest understatement of your German and English speaking abilities :-) The language boxes are only a suggestion, certainly not a must to add. If you are so inclined, the language boxes have 4-5 levels, so in German, perhaps, you are a Template:User de-4 instead of a Native speaker. --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:23, 13 December 2010 (EST)

Fotos [14 December 2010]

I hope you don't mind my adding photos to your pages. When I edit a place page, I'm doing a random check for a photo for people that link to that location. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:23, 14 December 2010 (EST)

just great!--Klaas (Ekjansen) 07:27, 14 December 2010 (EST)

Moi [15 December 2010]

Moi Klaas, Jennifer zei me dat jij suggesties hebt voor het toevoegen van Genlias. Zie hoe ik het deed bij Gerrit Ferwerda,Special:Contributions/Lidewij Mvg, Lidewij 16:29, 14 December 2010 (EST)

Hallo Lidewij, ik heb de Genlias-link en -bron => Person:Gerrit Ferwerda (7) in de source geplaatst. Met www.allegroningers moet ik nog met Jennifer overleggen, daar moet volgens mij een nieuwe source eerst gemaakt worden. --Klaas (Ekjansen) 01:39, 15 December 2010 (EST)

MySources [19 December 2010]

Klaas, when I find MySources where you no longer have pages that link to them, would you like me to delete them? I'm thinking specifically about Ferwerderadeel or Leeuwarderadeel MySources. If a page does link, I can change them over to the Source page if you wouldn't mind.--Jennifer (JBS66) 06:35, 19 December 2010 (EST)

Jennifer, yes you are very welcome to do that. I myself try to modify the mysource-sources into real sources, but end up with a huge amount of non-linking mysources. I think there is not an easy solution to remove them 'en bloc'. So I have to remove them one by one and first make a check if there is a link?.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 06:40, 19 December 2010 (EST)
Unfortunately there is no easy way to accomplish this. You might find it easier to check them at the time you change them from MySource to Source. In that way, it doesn't seem as daunting as going through a long list of MySources. That's just my personal style though... --Jennifer (JBS66) 06:54, 19 December 2010 (EST)

1816 Anjum marriage [19 December 2010]

Klaas, I came across this page Family:Fedde Van Der Graaf and Aaltje Van Der Schoor (1) (Aaltje connects into the Swarts). I noticed that you've uploaded Oostdongeradeel marriages through 1831, but you are not watching this family. I thought I'd alert you in case it was missing from your database. --Jennifer (JBS66) 09:27, 19 December 2010 (EST)

Jennifer, this is about the 3rd record which I do have in my local database but not in WeRelate, and I checked my gedcom from the 25th of october and they were in. So maybe blocked by WeRelate but why?. I only have van der School and not van der Schoor: (her stepfather:)

Metslawier, deel 1 folio 24 verso School, Johannes Jans van de, Paesens Kinderen: Gryttje 9, Jan 6, Tyttje 3 --Klaas (Ekjansen) 10:42, 19 December 2010 (EST)

Having data lost during gedcom upload is certainly concerning. I can't think of a way to determine what might have caused this. I will leave a message for Dallan letting him know that this is happening.

Regarding vd School/Schoor, let me look at this a bit. I think we're running into some of my "early" research here... I've learned a lot since then :-) --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:05, 19 December 2010 (EST)

‎oost1832.ged [20 December 2010]

I made just one small edit to a name in this gedcom: Eelkjen Jaspers Visser (I put Jaspers in the given name field). The file is importing now. Goodness Klaas, I think you deserve to put your feet up with a nice glass of wine after this one :-) --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:01, 20 December 2010 (EST)

Well happy to be through! I won't make a break but am working at the years 1833-1835, trying to make 3 years in one gedcom. I see since months that 1'800'000 persons are in the database. I added about 80'000 so we are still by 1'800'000?--Klaas (Ekjansen) 08:06, 20 December 2010 (EST)

That number is still the same, because nobody has thought to edit it. The number of people in the database is now 1,961,014. I'll round that off and add it to the main page.

I'm not sure if this idea is at all viable (sort of thinking as I type here...) It appears that you end up merging about 3/4 of your gedcoms, and import only 1/4. Your final numbers on this one were:

  • People: 884/2219/88 to be imported/matched/excluded (total 3191)
  • Families:392/1040/22 to be imported/matched/excluded (total 1454)

Say each marriage is generating a scheme like this: 

	c
a
	d

	e
b
	f

Since you are working earlier to later, eventually c,d,e, and f will already be in WR (most likely). So, then you are left with a and b. This may not even work... but I wonder what would happen if your gedcoms had only a and b (not their parents). This should be the core of new information not in WR. You could then go into a and b's pages and add a link to their parents. Depending upon how many marriages there are each year, you may end up with less edits overall.

How are you filtering your data for each gedcom? For example, this 1832 gedcom contained a lot more data than just 1832 marriages. --Jennifer (JBS66) 08:39, 20 December 2010 (EST)

I want to add the marriages (a and b) but also their parents which I add to my database (when missing) and also children as far as there are already in my database. The years 1831 and 1832 I even did more: of all partners the relatives up to the 3rd level including partners, parents of partners, brothers and sisters including their partners and eventually childeren and parents! A bit too... maybe. My purpose is to make as many links as possible and make also additions and corrections. When I do 3 years at once maybe I should include only upto the 2nd level of relatives. --Klaas (Ekjansen) 08:55, 20 December 2010 (EST)

zoeken en vervangen [9 January 2011]

Klaas, do you know of a way in Aldfaer to do a global search and replace for text in notes? For example, say I wanted to replace the word born with geboren in notes throughout the database, is there a way to do this? I downloaded Aldfaer, so if you know the steps in Dutch to accomplish this, that would be great! Thank you,--Jennifer (JBS66) 07:01, 22 December 2010 (EST)

You can change names and places and a lot more under the heading Stamboom, onderhoud. But only where the complete field is identical you can change all absolutely identical entries into new identical entries. I made changes in my gedcom, opened the gedcom in the Editor and changed every xxx to yyy. This is tricky but it works quite well (for example removed the RIN-entries before Dallan made this a general feature).--Klaas (Ekjansen) 16:08, 22 December 2010 (EST)
I see how to do the search part of this. Say I go to Stamboom>Onderhoud>Bronnen, type something in the field and press Zoek. It finds the text, but then I can't figure out how to do the replace part. --Jennifer (JBS66) 10:47, 31 December 2010 (EST)

As soon as found, doubleclick and it shows the field Tekst wijzigen. The original text will be completely replaced with anything you type in this field. For sources this is not very useful when they are not just general, as soon as there is an exact page or aktebummer it will be an separat source and you only can change one by one. With places and names this works for all identical names or places.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 11:41, 1 January 2011 (EST)

I finally tried this out, and your instructions are perfect. It seems this does work well for places. Thank you! --Jennifer (JBS66) 15:44, 9 January 2011 (EST)

Genlias links [22 December 2010]

Klaas, I noticed that you put a Genlias link on Engbert's page. However, if you click on it now, you'll reach a page that says "Er is een fout opgetreden". To avoid this, I discovered a little trick :-)

In the text of any Genlias link, between val= and &xtr there is a number. Replace that number with the number 0. So, http://www.genlias.nl/nl/searchDetail.jsp?val=1&xtr=24465607&vgr=1 turns into http://www.genlias.nl/nl/searchDetail.jsp?val=0&xtr=24465607&vgr=1. --Jennifer (JBS66) 18:33, 22 December 2010 (EST)

Ambt [28 December 2010]

Klaas, I'm looking at the place pages for Overijssel, in preparation for merging the duplicates. I notice that you use Ambt when WR has just Ommen or Hardenberg. When I merge pages like Place:Ambt Ommen, Overijssel, Netherlands and Place:Ommen, Overijssel, Netherlands, I intend to keep your version of Ambt Ommen. Is this correct to do, and is this how the gemeente was named around 1900? Thanks, --Jennifer (JBS66) 09:37, 28 December 2010 (EST)

In 1900 there were several gemeenten called Ambt and Stad: Ambt Almelo, Ambt Delden, Ambt Hardenberg, Ambt Ommen, and the equivalent Stad Almelo, Stad Delden, Stad Hardenberg and Stad Ommen. Like Zwolle and Zwollerkerspel, or Leeuwarden and Leeuwarderadeel the Ambt was the surrounding area with a separate administration mostly larger than the Stad. I won't merge them, but could think of do it like Ommen, Ambt; Ommen, Stad etc. In familysearch the original records are totally mixed together, that doesnt work.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 09:50, 28 December 2010 (EST)
I see... I thought the Ambt Ommen and Ommen pages were the same. Does that mean it would be accurate to rename Place:Ommen, Overijssel, Netherlands to Stad Ommen? I like keeping the Ambt and Stad words first, the Repertorium van Nederlandse gemeenten has it like that as well.
When a record in Genlias states only Delden or Ommen etc, is that considered Ambt Delden or Stad Delden? Also, the pages that are currently under Place:Hardenberg, Overijssel, Netherlands - should those be under Ambt Hardenberg? Awfully sorry to bug you with so many questions on this... --Jennifer (JBS66) 11:52, 28 December 2010 (EST)

With Ommen Genlias means post-1923. Genlias follows the text of the akte. I think you need three pages; like Hoogezand, Sappemeer, and Hoog.-S.

--Leo Bijl 12:14, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Well my text get lost, I think when 2 just save their text in about the same second one is lost. I wrote a detailed text but now its gone. in 1818 these Ambt-communities started, Almelo 1914, Ommen 1921, Hardenberg, 1941 and Delden 2001 came together again.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 12:30, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Oh ja, dat is botsing van bewerkingen, gebeurt af en toe. Je bedoelde waarschijnlijk de gemeentelijke herindeling. --Leo Bijl 12:33, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Ja, maar dat is niet zo erg, ik had de gegevens in wikipedia nagekeken, en de precieze data opgeschreven, maar dat is slechts een detail.--Klaas (Ekjansen) 12:39, 28 December 2010 (EST)

If an "edit conflict" happens again, when you get the message of the conflict, press the back button (usually twice) on your browser, select the text you wrote, and copy it (CTRL-C) - open the page anew, and paste (CTRL-V) the text after the other person's remark. Funny, because it just had to do this myself...

Ok, so... I'll start with Ambt Ommen, I'll make a new Stad Ommen page - and you can both keep an eye on me in case I mess up :-) Thank you both for the education! --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:41, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Er is dus: 1) ambt, resp. 2) stad, en 3) Ommen (post-23). The others must have something comparable.--Leo Bijl 12:55, 28 December 2010 (EST)

The others meaning Delden, Hardenberg, Almelo etc...? yes I know, I'm working on it ;-) --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:00, 28 December 2010 (EST)
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