Person talk:William Lower (7)

William Lower [23 March 2017]

KevinWalters:

We may be working on the same William Lower! There are at least 13 William Lowers, just in his line alone!

The one I have in question is:

William Lower born 25 Mar 1808 in? (different places in Ohio & Ind.) died 16 Jan 1887 in Portland, Oregon married: Rebecca Gooding

        14 May 1829 Fayette County, Indiana

Please contact me!

--White Creek 20:19, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Personal discussions moved from Person page [23 April 2017]

WILLIAM was reported in two books (widely used as sources for these "Hirstein Lowers") to have been one of the 120 victims in the infamous "MOUNTAIN MEADOWS MASSACRE" in Utah, during September 1857. One reason that there were so many victims was that the famous "Francher Party" wagon train was so huge. It was one of the largest and wealthiest in western history, and well documented. It began in Arkansas, and included a large cattle herd. In Utah it was strung out over a large distance, thus making it vulnerable to attack. The story goes that local Mormon residents dressed as American Indians attacked the wagon train. The story of this event was made into a 2007 motion picture entitled: "September Dawn". It featured the actor Jon Voight, who is the father of actress Angelina Jolie.

--White Creek 04:07, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

"White Creek" has since concluded that some sources were wrong, and with the agreement of another source, we have concluded that while William was on the "Francher Party" wagon train, that he and his wife separated at the Oregon Trail (as others did), thus avoiding the massacre in Utah. [ later this was also proved to be in error ] Therefore, I have changed his date of death from 1857, to the 1887 date found on William Lower.

--White Creek 04:51, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

"White Creek" almost wishes he could start this "Personal History" all over again! However, it has been decided to retain the prior information contributed by myself and others as a "guide" as to how we have arrived at the history of this remarkable family. Thanks to "GayelKnott" for having reorganized this page, and eliminated duplicate parents, etc. Also thanks to the provider of the 1860 census data on this page! We had not found William in 1860 indexes, and thus concluded that it was likely that the reference books were correct about his early death (wrong again). Of course, that changes the narrative again! Obviously, if William was in Iowa in 1860, he could not have been involved in any way with the Francher Party wagon train.

--White Creek 06:21, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

White Creek, I've moved your personal discussions from the text section of the William Lowers' page to this Talk page. This kind of personal talk is really more appropriate for this page, keeping the information on William's Person page somewhat more formal. Hope that is okay with you. --GayelKnott 15:08, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Gayel,

I'm not sure I know what I'm doing regarding these "Talk" pages, but here goes.....

Thanks for your work in rearranging pages again. It does make for a "better flowing narrative" for the page. As mentioned previously, because of the nature of the type of information about William Lower, a "narrative description" seems to be a better way to present his life, instead of a lot of specific statistics (which seem to be absent his life anyway). I do have more information to add, and I want to "tweak" the page some more in order to improve it.

--White Creek 21:17, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

"Statistics" as you call them, tend to be verifiable facts. Unless you are quoting from a diary, everything other than statistics tends to gradually reflect the interpretations, expectations and assumptions of the author, many of which tend to reflect the modern society that the author lives in, and hence be incorrect. A narrative is nice, but it is the last step in filling out a page, as establishing the "statistics", aka facts, comes first. Then one can cite specific instances (facts) which show why they think certain conclusions are justified. Unlike most websites, WeRelate is collaborative, meaning the page belongs to the community, and everything one posts should ideally be documented in such a way that the other people interested in the page can know where that conclusion comes from, can verify it, and then can support it, or refute it, as appropriate. If you think somebody was part of a certain wagon train, for example, then you should cite a first-hand document that says that (or a source that identifies that document). Even if you want to advance an unproven hypothesis for review by others, you should document why you think something is true, based, whenever possible, on discrete facts (aka statistics) that are true. It should never be you saying so. And if you must take somebody else's word for it, then you should at least identify that person whose work you are relying on. See for example, Person:Edward Doty (1). Two books are mentioned in your long narrative, only one was named (Akerboom, Jack. Descendants of Hans Lauer Lower) and it was wrong about William's death, even though showing that death was incorrect wasn't hard. Hopefully the other information is based on more reliable sources. --Jrich 02:38, 24 April 2017 (UTC)