Person talk:Thomas Welles (1)

Insert non-formatted text hereI would be thrilled if someone familiar with this family genealogy would step forward and help figure out the relationships for this person and his immediate ancestors/descendants. -Jrm03063

I am moving the discussion to the talk page:It seems clear that his first wife was Alice Tomes who was mother of all his children.

The only entry for Elizabeth Hunt on this site shows her to be a dau. of the Tomes family which is ludicrous. A Martha Hunt Married his grandson. His second wife was Elizabeth Deming.

The process of merging various instances of Thomas Welles has led to an interesting, and impossible, build-up of potential spouses. My quick read of the information indicates that the wife by whom he had children was Alice Tomes. He may have had an additional wife or wives, but I have seen nothing to prove it. In particular, "Hunt" seems to have been ruled out. I have summarized the accumulation below, hoping that someone familiar with the research on Thomas Welles will step forward. -Jrm03063

Savage lists at least 9 different men named Thomas Welles. Let me study them to see how theymatch up with the various wives.--Scot 11:55, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

Family:Thomas Welles and Elizabeth Deming (1) ElizabethD, 1595-1683

 * Samuel Welles
 * Sarah Welles

Family:Thomas Welles and Elizabeth Welles (1) ElizabethW, 1501-1553, mar 1535-1540, Alice Welles (1538-?) Family:Thomas Welles and Elizabeth Bryan (1) ElizabethB, 1529-?, no children in tree Family:Thomas Welles and Elizabeth Unknown (1) Elizabeth?, 1598-?, no children in tree Family:Thomas Welles and Alice Deming (1) AliceD, 1598-?, mar. 1621, no children in tree Family:Thomas Welles and Elizabeth Hunt (1) ElizabethH, 1598-1640, mar. 1615

 * Ann Welles (1619, Essex, ENG. - 1680, Farmington, , Ct)
 * John Welles (1621, Of Stourton, Warwick, England - 18 Aug 1659, Stratford, Fairfield, Ct)
 * Robert Welles (1624, Essex, ENG. - 1668)
 * Sarah Welles (1631-1632, Essex, ENG. - 11 Dec 1698, , , Ct)
 * Mary Welles (1634, Essex, England - 21 Jul 1647, Milford, NEW HAVEN, Ct)
 * Joseph Welles (1637, Hartford, , Ct - 1659, , , Ct)
 * Samuel Welles (13 Apr 1660, Of Wethersfield, Hartford, Ct - 15 Jul 1675, Drowned Crossing)

Family:Thomas Welles and Elizabeth Wells (1) ElizabethW, 1515-?, mar. 1539, no children in tree


Mary Beardsley [13 June 2008]

I do not believe She married this Thomas, she came in 1635 age 4 by the time she married in 1651 he was 57 and still married to Elizabeth Deming who out lived him.--Scot 18:04, 12 June 2008 (EDT) Possibly this could be the son of Gov. Welles, although Savage says he married Hannah Tuttle.--Scot 11:53, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

Doubt cast on the wikipedia reference... [16 August 2011]

When a problem is found in wikipedia, we need to feed it back to wikipedia so bad information doesn't continue to circulate.--Jrm03063 09:55, 21 March 2009 (EDT)

This is the latest information by The Welles Family Association re: Errors in the identity of Gov. Thomas Welles' wife, Alice. Please read online.

--Neal Gardner 12:54, 28 January 2010 (EST)

The Wikipedia article has changed substantially since the original statements about its sources were added to this page. Notably, instead of citing the Welles Family Genealogy as a single source, there is now an extensive list of references (all more recent). Can someone familiar with what was wrong before see if the note is still appropriate. I'm going to move the template up into the body of the notes in the meantime because there is otherwise no description of who Thomas Welles was.--Amelia 12:15, 16 August 2011 (EDT)

Genesis of Errors about the Structure of the Thomas Welles Family [9 August 2011]

I think I can put some of the errors about Gov. Thomas Welles and his family into perspective. I've learned more about the genesis of these errors while I've been writing/updating the book about the descendants of Gov. Thomas Welles for the Welles Family Association. With a good look at the sources of the errors, we can finally put them to rest.

The first book that covered this family in any depth was written by Albert Welles and published in 1876. At that time, only a few snippets of knowledge were available. One of those snippets was probate information. The will of Blanche Hunt, an unmarried woman who died in Wethersfield a few years before the governor, called the governor her Uncle Welles. The will of the governor does not provide a given name for his widow, but she petitioned the court later and her given name in those documents is Elizabeth. What happened was that earlier researchers simply assumed that Blanche's surname must have been the maiden name of the widow. With that assumption, the fictitious Elizabeth Hunt was born.

A closer look at the will of the widow Elizabeth Welles, however, gives us more information. She names in that will her surviving children and all the boys are named Foote. None of the children named in Gov. Welles's will appear in her will as children. Therefore, this marriage was at least the second marriage for each. Finally, Elizabeth names her dearly beloved brother John Deming. Although "brother" at that period could mean an in-law relationship or occasionally a fellow church member, it does seem to mean in this situation an actual brother-sister relationship. What we take away from this is that the governor's widow Elizabeth was born a Deming and married a Foote. All of her surviving children are from that Foote marriage.

So who was the governor's earlier wife or wives, and the mother or mothers of his children? Extensive research in England provided solid evidence linking Thomas Welles of Hartford to his first wife and to their origins back in England. The paper trail is stronger than it is for many colonial families so we are quite lucky in this regard. Lemuel Atkins Welles published the origins of Thomas Welles in 1927 and those of his wife Alice Tomes in 1930 in the New England Historical and Genealogical Register. Chancery testimony about entailed land in England provides the information that Thomas and Alice (Tomes) Welles had six living children when they left England. These are the children named in the governor's will. Thus it appears that his first wife was the mother of all of his surviving children. No evidence has ever come to light that he had any other wife or wives than Alice, the mother of his children, and Elizabeth, his widow. The evidence from England also provides information about the governor's parents and siblings. --Bmathews 11:21, 9 August 2011 (EDT)

Is the Lemuel Atkins Welles info from the Register the last word, or has subsequent research rendered some of it obsolete? Same question with regard to Jacobus's treatment of the family in Hale-House.--jaques1724 21:54, 16 December 2011 (EST)

Birth Date of Gov. Thomas Welles [9 August 2011]

I know of no evidence that provides an exact birth date for Gov. Thomas Welles as it is given in this article. I'd like to remove the date given here and replace it with a c. 1590 date. If there are no objections to this in the next week, I'll make that edit. --Bmathews 11:30, 9 August 2011 (EDT)

I have no objection, and concur with the evidence in this discussion. --Neal Gardner 12:00, 9 August 2011 (EDT)

Now that Thomas Welles' page is current to the most accurate available info, can we straighten out the proposed father, Robert Welles family ? His first 2 children are almost as old as the parents, with births occuring well before the given marriage date. The Welles Family Association discussion (web address on Thomas' page) states that about 4 Welles' generations are fairly well-documented in Warwickshire records. Can we varify some of this ? --Neal Gardner 15:32, 16 August 2011 (EDT)