Person talk:Shubael Lincoln (1)

Bible Records [7 June 2019]

"Shubael Lincoln Family Bible Records, including birth and death dates for Shubael, his wife, and their children."

This is a frustrating citation for a reader, except blind copyists who don't care what the source is as long as they get a date to put in their family tree. Family Bibles can be extremely useful sources, but are usually inaccessible to many people. Somebody may be researching a family member and want to see if there is information about their subject there. I know of family Bibles that have errors. Comparing the whole of the information to the other facts known about a family is one way of verifying a Bible's credibility for revelations that are found there.

Additionally, it is dangerous, because if somebody changes one of the dates, either for good reason or through error, this citation will now appear to support the changed date with a family Bible.

Considering the dates involved, the contents of the Bible cannot be copyrighted, though pictures of it may be. So it can be transcribed.

If the Bible records are printed, the source should be cited.

If the Bible records are not printed, a MySource or Transcript should be created to provide access to the contents. Just to provide an example, see here. Others upload images of the Bible pages, etc., which is even better. Collaboration involves sharing so readers can take our work and build on it.

Taken from Ancestry Message Board, unverified, some formatting added:

Shubael Lincoln born Marth [sic, posted this way] 6th 1770 died January 30th 1835
Mary Ellis born April 25th 1775 died September 19, 1854
Married March 21, 1793
Children born married died
Elihu b Feb 3 1794 d Feb 9, 1794
Luther E b Jan 22 1795 d October 19 1819
Ruth b May 13 1797 m Dec 25 1817 d Mar 3 1875
Phebe b June 2 1799 m April 11 1827 d May 21 1836
Polly b August 8 1801 m Febr 12 1821 d Dec 5 1841
Orrilla b May 30 1803 d June 21 1803
Shubael b May 5 1805 m June 15 1834 d June 13 1895
Horatio b Dec 3 1807 m June 22 1841 d Dec 4 1871
Orrilla b Dec 19, 1809 m May 19 1824 d Sept (or Feb?) 8 1888
Eretus b August 21 1812 d Feb 27 1841
Loretta b Mar 9 1815 m May 10 1849 d May 4 , 1887
Samuel E b Dec 29 1818 m October 12 1843 d May 27 1882

--Jrich 13:44, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Sorry that citing a family bible source was frustrating for you. I would have posted the full transcription had I known the acceptable place to do this on Shubael’s profile. I’ve only been using the We Relate platform for a short time, so I’m not familiar with the protocols.

I don’t share all of your views on family bibles. They can be a great source for documentation. The person who originally recorded the event in the family bible is not far removed from the actual event, in fact, they may have been a witness to the event, whereas, a recorder in a town clerk’s office would be further removed. The modern indexer would be even further removed. So to my way of thinking, family bible records are probably more accurate than other transcriptions or indexes. So, a transcription of a family bible is no worse than a transcription of a town clerk’s record.

So family bible records are no more dangerous than other records.

Collaboration also requires courtesy.

I suggest you allow new people a little more time to learn how to navigate We Relate before posting comments like this: “except blind copyists who don't care what the source is as long as they get a date to put in their family tree.”--Davidpeirce 16:08, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

You misunderstood half of what I said.

The family Bible was cited, but poorly. Have you seen the Bible? Or did you just see a second-hand posting like I did? I can't tell from the citation. As pointed out, there are places designed for posting sources that apply to more than one person, MySources and Transcripts. Shubael's page is not the best place, and I only posted the message board post here because it provides some closure to the above posting if there was no response.

The comment "except blind copyists who don't care what the source is as long as they get a date to put in their family tree." wasn't aimed at you, it was a description of the only type of reader that would be satisfied with the citation as it stood. It is true that this is the larger part of people posting on the Internet, but not usually the sweet spot of the WeRelate user community. Anybody that is serious needs to know more about the source, and, as I stated, will find such a ambiguous citation frustrating.

I didn't say family bible records are dangerous, though Mayflower Descendant did post a sadly humorous article about a person who applied for membership by supplying Bible records of a colonial family written into a Bible printed in the 1880s. I said the citation was dangerous. Since it does not say what information was taken from the Bible, or where to find the Bible records to determine what information was taken from the Bible, it appears to give the authority of the Bible to everything on the page. If the page changes, it would still look like everything on the page came from the Bible when it no longer does. (It has happened.)

I understand it can be hard to figure out WeRelate. It takes a while. What philosophy may have once guided the source system has been corrupted by letting people do what they want with no feedback. The whole purpose of collaborating is pretty unique amongst websites that mostly prey on ego to build member counts, and encourage self-centered posting instead of community-authoring. I believe in a community effort like WeRelate, how you know the answer is more important than the answer. I have gotten pretty adept at reverse-engineering how it is known based on the answer over the years, but what is needed is for posters to address that question first. --Jrich 18:15, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

You need to learn how to offer constructive feedback. I didn't "misunderstand" half of what you wrote. A simple request to post the bible records would have sufficed. Your tone and attitude are terrible, especially directed at someone who has only been using the website for a week or so. You will drive people away from the site with the kinds of posts you are making.--Davidpeirce 18:20, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

I shouldn't have to ask and who knows if you'll be here in two year, two decades, or whenever the next person would like to know. Most WeRelate users don't respond. It is a waste of time asking, most are long gone. It should be cited so somebody can find them, if not a transcription should be provided: it removes questions, saves time, lends the posted dates credibility, and is simply considerate. --Jrich 21:11, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

You are beating a dead horse.--Davidpeirce 21:17, 7 June 2019 (UTC)