Person talk:John Kendall (5)

Two people? [23 January 2010]

This page has some appearances of being two people combined into one page.

One John Kendall d. 1660 in Cambridge England.

One John Kendall m. abt. 1644 Elizabeth, widow of Samuel Holley in Cambridge Massachusetts. John and Elizabeth sold land in Cambridge about 1646 Massachusetts. This appears to be a different Elizabeth than Elizabeth Scherell who is listed as dying 1640.

The website cited here lists the death of John Kendall in 1660 in Massachusetts, but the source it cites lists the death as 1660 in England.

More sources would help.

--Jrich 09:42, 19 January 2010 (EST)

Perhaps Clemens erred placing his death in England. The dates seem to agree. Also he offers no source citation indicating he was the father of Thomas and Franccis.--Scot 13:26, 19 January 2010 (EST)

If John Kendall the elder came to New England, it does not seem like Francis would qualify as the immigrant ancestor he is given credit for. To me, this indicates the father did die in England, and so the person in Cambridge, Mass. is probably not the father of Francis and Thomas Kendall.

It looks like a couple of different merges happened in late 2008-- one by me in my very early days of merging. And it looks like I merged what was already a mess. I am going to review those merges and if appropriate, try to unmerge them. Sorry, folks. Jillaine 16:56, 23 January 2010 (EST)

Ooops! Look like jrich is ahead of me, but merging, not un-merging. Please explain what you're up to, jrich. I don't want to make matters worse. Jillaine 16:57, 23 January 2010 (EST)

John Kendall was married to two Elizabeth Sacherells, one spelled Sacherel and the other Sacherell. It appeared children were being placed under each, creating duplicates. So I merely merged them, creating a bigger mess, perhaps, but at least getting all the claimed children on one page. --Jrich 17:21, 23 January 2010 (EST)

Source: Dawes-Gates Ancestral Lines [23 January 2010]

Source:Ferris, Mary Walton. Dawes-Gates Ancestral Lines, p. 370, 371, and 375:

• John Kendall [of Cambridge, Mass] is believed to have been a brother of our Francis Kendall of Woburn and of Thomas Kendall of Lynn and Reading.
• Mabel (Kendall) Read, later a second wife of Henry Sommers, was a sister of our Francis Kendall of Woburn and presumably also of John Kendall of Cambridge...
• It is claimed, though without submission of proof, that a John Kendall of England was the father of three (or possibly four, see note p. 371 [i.e., the item quoted above]) emigrants to New England, the earliest being Mabel Kendall, born about 1605 who had married in England about 1628 William Reade ... married secondly, November 21 1660, as his second wife, Henry Somers. The second husband by his will ... heir brought suit ... testimony included the statement that Francis Kendall was Mabel's brother.

I believe the relationship of Francis and Thomas is pretty solid based on identification in one or the other's will. Don't happen to have the reference handy. (Jillaine added it below.)((Thank you.))

However, the identification of Francis as a brother of Mabel was somewhat ambiguous as I recall, being verbal, and could have indicated a church member rather than a family member. Given a shared surname, it seems likely they are brother and sister, but this is hardly conclusive. ((See John Harrington Stevens source added below.))

I do not know of any evidence connecting any of them to John of Cambridge other than shared surname. If he is a brother of Francis, then the father could have died in Cambridge, England while the son died in Cambridge, Massachusetts and this page is a combination of the two.

Jillaine concurs. This page is badly messed up, mixing up a John Kendall of Cambridge England with a John Kendall of Cambridge MA. And if you google the man, you'll find a range of confusion about the Massachusetts man from being a brother to Francis and Thomas to being their father. Jillaine 16:52, 23 January 2010 (EST)

I do not know how the father of Francis and Thomas is known to be John Kendall of England. Source:Laughlin, Kendall. Descendants of William Kendall of Ashford, Connecticut and Caledonia County, Vermont; a Genealogy, p. 3, says "it may be noted that records in England show that the names of the parents of John Kendall (1580-1660), Francis's father, were John Kendall and Mary Miles". But no such records are given. The uncertainty would suggest knowledge of these records is not, in fact, widespread. I have seen Francis's origins placed in County Kent, County Norfolk, and of course, County Middlesex. --Jrich 17:35, 19 January 2010 (EST)

Source: The Kendall Family in America [23 January 2010]

Ancestry.com. The Kendall family in America [database on-line]. Provo, UT: The Generations Network, Inc., 2004. Original data: Clemens, William Montgomery,. The Kendall family in America. Hackensack, N.J.: W.M. Clemens, 1990.

Chapter: Kendalls in England... page 4: "The ancestor of the American Kendall family was John Kendall who was born in 1608 and died in County Cambridge in 1660. Two of his sons, Francis and Thomas, came to New England before 1640.

Argh... I'm falling asleep... more later. Jillaine 01:41, 23 January 2010 (EST)

This is the source Scott provided a link to on the person page, and that he was referring to in his comment above about Clemens. It seems to suggest that John Kendall died in England. But it doesn't exactly cite a parish register. And it would be odd to find a father dying in England the same year his like named son died in New England. Possible, but it would have to be considered somewhat suspect until we can track down the underlying evidence... --Jrich 09:15, 23 January 2010 (EST)

Let me suggest the reason Francis is known as the progenitor is due to the fact that Thomas left no sons. Clemens says he had 10 daus. and proceeds to list 9 daus, one of whom dy as well as a son who also dy. The naming pattern suggests Thomas parents were indeed John and Elizabeth. I find on line that his wife was Rebecca Paine b 17 Jul, 1618 to Anthony and Alice (Potter) Paine. I have not yet checked the following: SOURCE NOTES for Thomas: Gen. Hist. of Town of Reading,MA (Hon. Lilley Eaton); Hist. of Western NY (Cutter) 3:1071-1072; MARRIAGE: New England Marriages: Prior to 1700 (C. A. Torrey) p. 433 SOURCE NOTES for Rebecca: Gen. Hist. of Town of Reading,MA (Hon. Lilley Eaton) p.93--Scot 15:01, 23 January 2010 (EST)

Source: Gen. History of the Town of Reading, MA

I reviewed Gen. History of the Town of Reading, MA, pp 93-94. Documents Dea. Thomas Kendall and the marriages of this daughters. Calls him brother of Francis.

Source: New England Marriages Prior to 1700

p 432-433:

• Kendall, Francis alias Miles (1620-1708) (65 in 1684) & Mary TIDD (-1705); 24 Dec 1644 Woburn/Charlestown
• Kendall, John (-1661) & 1/wf __?__; b. 1630? Gloucester/Cambridge
• Kendall, John (-1661) & 2/wf Elizabeth (_?_) [HOLLEY], w Samue;; aft 1643, ca 1644; Cambridge
• Kendall, Thomas (-1681, ae 63) & REbecca [?PAINE] (?1616-1703, ae 85?); b 1639?, ca 1641; ?Lynn/Roxbury

Source: Vital Records of Reading, MA to 1850

(These should be moved over to Thomas' page once we've looked at them. Jillaine 15:55, 23 January 2010 (EST)) page 136... Births: Kendall:

• Abigall, d of Thomas and Rebeka, Nov 30, 1655
• Elizebeth, d. of Thomas, Feb. 17 1642
• Hannah, d of Thomas, Jan 29, 1649. M.R.
• Mary, d. of THomas, Dec. 24, 1647. M.R.
• Rebecka, d. of Thomas, Feb. 10, 1644
• Sarah, d. of Thomas, June 20, 1652 (d. 23 Jun 1652; see page 534)
• Sarah, d. of Thomas, June 22, 1653
• Susannah, d. of THomas and Rebeckah, June 27, 1658
• Tabbitha, d of Thomas, Nov. (5. M.R.), 1660
• Thomas, s. of Thomas, Sept. 15, 1663 (d. 20 Jul 1664; see page 534)

Marriages (pp 377-278)

Kendall (early ones only)

• Elizebeth and John Eaton, Mar. 8, 1658 (16 yr old dau of Thomas?)
• Hannah and John Parker, Nov 13, 166- [1667] (18 yr old dau of Thomas?)
• Mary and Abraham Briant, Feb. 2, 1664 (17 yr old dau of Thomas?)
• Rebecka and james Boutwell, June 15, 1665 (likely dau of Thomas)
• Rebecka and Joshuah Eaton, Apr. 25, 1678 (??)
• Sarah and Samuel Dunton, June 17, 1673 (likely dau of Thomas)

Deaths (p 534) - Kendall

• Rebekah, July 17, 1703 (Thos’ wife?)
• Sarah, d of Thomas, June 23, 1652 (a. 3d, T.C.)
• Thomas, s. of Thomas, July 20, 1664
• Thomas, July 22, 1681

Source: Pope's Pioneers of Massachusetts [23 January 2010]

Page 266:

Kendall... John, Cambridge, 1644-6. He m. about 1644, Elizabeth, widow of Samuel Holly, and sold the H. estate with her in 1646.

Note: Pope (same page) mentions Francis of Woburn as well as Thomas of Reading saying they were brothers. He does not say this about John.

Source: Founders of Early American Families

Page 183:

Mentions only Francis.

Source: Genealogies and Estates of Charlestown

Page 569:

Kendall. Mentions a number of Kendalls, including Francis of Woburn, but neither John nor Thomas.--Jillaine 15:36, 23 January 2010 (EST)

Source (sic): Kendall web page [23 January 2010]

This web page (scroll down to Generation #7) claims (without source) that John Kendall was born 1608; d. 1664 in England; m. Elizabeth Satcherell, and that he was son of John Kendall and another Elizabeth Satcherell, and was brother to Thomas and Francis. But this same page also claims that their father John Kendall (b 1580; m. 25 Nov 1606 Elizabeth Satcherell) was he who died in Cambridge, *MA* 1659/60. And that his wife died in Cambridge, MA in 1640. Harumph. Jillaine 16:17, 23 January 2010 (EST)

I think at this point "(sic)" almost has to be added to all these sources, in regards to this person anyway.

The hard evidence according to what I can find in easily accessible sources is that there is a deed in 1646 showing John Kendall to be the 2nd husband of Elizabeth (---) Holley. Samuel Holley's will is dated 1643 mentioned wife Elizabeth and son John. [Did he only have one son (i.e., young man), or did he only mention one?] There is a mention of John Kendall being fined for not restraining his livestock in 1646 and 1648.

I can't even find how the death date is known. This is a NEHGR article waiting to happen if somebody found some good evidence. --Jrich 16:50, 23 January 2010 (EST)

Source: Vital Records of Cambridge, to the year 1850 [23 January 2010]

Page 406 (Births) nothing earlier than 1776; mostly mid 1800s

Page 2_225-226 (Marriages; early ones only):

• Kendall, Elizabeth. d. of John, and Morris Somes, in Gloucester, June 26, 1648
• Elizab[eth] and Ephr[aim] Winship, Nov. 9, 1675

Page 2_625 (Deaths): Nothing before 1803.

The Elizabeth who marriaged Ephraim Winship is the daughter of Francis. Family:Ephraim Winship and Elizabeth Kendall (1). --Jrich 16:52, 23 January 2010 (EST)

The fact that they married in Cambridge is interesting... would hint (sic) ;-) at a relationship with John Kendall of Cambridge. Jillaine 17:36, 23 January 2010 (EST)

I always wonder how husband and wives from different towns met, but outside of that logistical detail, the marriage in Cambridge isn't really too odd because the Winship family was from Cambridge. Both towns are in Middlesex county, so I'm not sure how much can be read into all this anyway. Current towns only 9 miles apart per maps.google.com, and wikipedia says Cambridge is county seat. If it was back then too, perhaps travel to Cambridge was required once in a while. --Jrich 17:54, 23 January 2010 (EST)

Source: History of Cambridge, Massachusetts. 1630-1877 (Volume 1)

page 595:

Kendall, John, sold land on the south side of the river 8 Sept. 1646; according to the Record, “Edward jackson bought of John Kendall and Elizabeth his wife, one dwelling-house, late Samuel Hollyes, together with an out-house and ten acres of land.” His w. Elizabeth was widow of Samuel Holley; she may have suffered death for supported witchcraft. See page 355.

2. (implying son of John?) Thomas, by w. Sarah, had Mary, b 28 Ap. 1711.--Jillaine 16:31, 23 January 2010 (EST)

Source: Will of Francis Kendall [24 January 2010]

Near its end, it makes reference to his brother Thomas. No such reference is made to any other brother.

To the eight children of my brother Thomas Kendall, who were living when my brother died, I give twenty shillings

apiece to be paid by my executors. In case any of the eight children die, the eldest child of the deceased shall enjoy the mother’s gift. I do this in rememberance of the kindness I had for my loving brother.

Found here. (PDF) (Lacking source citation, however.)

Jillaine 16:49, 23 January 2010 (EST)

NEHGR 39:17 has very brief abstract in article by William R. Cutter that also includes "'the eight children' of his brother Thomas Kendall, 'that were living' when his said brother died", though this doesn't identify the probate file either. Will dated 9 May 1706, probate date not given. (he died 1708). Still, should be possible to track this down. --Jrich 10:37, 24 January 2010 (EST)

Source: Ancestry of Colonel John Harrington Stevens [24 January 2010]

Only partially viewable on Google, but it say that Mabel's deposition on her second husband's estate mentioning "brother Francis Kendall" could be explained by her son marrying his daughter. Would like to find more of the document, but if no "my" in front of brother, it could also be religious. Mabel "is further said" to be d/o Henry Kendall and Gabriel[la?] Armstrong. --Jrich 17:07, 23 January 2010 (EST)

The source below, Kendall, Cunningham, and Snodgrasses: says there is a monument in the wall of the chancel in Smithsby church in Derby County dated April 1627 listing Henry Kendall and his wife Elizabeth Armstrong-Kendall and their 16 children: Henry, Gabriell, William, George, Thomas, Stephen, John, Thomas, John; Elizabeth, Margaret, Jane, Dorothy, Elianor, Hannah and Abigail. [i.e., no Mabel]. --Jrich 09:47, 24 January 2010 (EST)

Source: History and Genealogy: Kendalls, Cunninghams, Snodgrasses [23 January 2010]

Kendall, Norman Festus,. History and genealogy, Kendalls, Cunninghams, Snodgrasses : illustrated. Grafton, W. Va.: Grafton Sentinel Pub. Co., 1942. (found on ancestry.com)

This appears to be the source for Thomas and Francis being brothers or sons to John of Cambridge, but it has conflicting data-- or rather, different people have interpreted it differently; my notes are in brackets below. Research was conducted in the late 1930s, early 1940s, in England. The researchers in England were, according to this publication, unable to complete their research due to the bombings. So they sent their notes and report draft of what they'd compiled to date. What's driving me bonkers is they do not say what church these records were found in! Jillaine 17:29, 23 January 2010 (EST)

History and Genealogy: Kendalls, Cunninghams, Snodgrasses Page 5

Unfinished Kendall Genealogy Memorandum--Notes [male lines only; bold is line of secent]:

• 1421-1501 -- John Kendall, wife Margaret -- Sons: John, Thomas, William, Henry, George
• 1441-1520-- Henry Kendall above, wife, Edith-- Sons: Francis; Richard: Thomas; John: william
• 1480-1561-- Francis Kendall, above, wife, Mary-- Sons: James; Jeremiah; Bartholomew; Edward; John; Thomas
• 1504-1578-- James Kendall, above, wife, Elizabeth Miles. Sons: William; Samuel; Henry; John; James; Thomas.
• 1527-1601-- William Kendall, above, wife Sarah Brayne. Sons: John,; William; Thomas; James; Samuel; Henry.
• 1548-1628-- John Kendall, above, wife, Mary Miles. Sons: William; Thomas [of Reading, MA?]; Samuel; Edward; Henry; Miles [Francis of Woburn?]; John (New England) [<-- It his this line that appears to be the source of the three New England Kendalls boys all being brothers; also apparently the source of confusion re: "Miles" for Francis, but see below; they say this John was *father* of the emigrating Thomas and Francis brothers...]
• 1575-1655-- William Kendall, above, wife, first, Mary Leigh (Lee). Second. Elizabeth Arlington, Sons: first wife, John; William; Thomas. Son: second wife, John (kinsman)
• 1599-1686-- William Kendall, above, merchant, statesman, Jamestown, Virginia, made his first business trip to America when 18 years of age.... (Virginia...)
• 1617-1679-- John Kendall, kinsman, above, half brother of Lt. Col. William Kendall, son by the Arlington marriage, general manager of his half brother’s vast business enterprises, recieivng an annual salary of 24,000 pounds of tobacco.... (Virginia)
• 1580-1660-- John Kendall, above, son of John and Mary Miles Kendall 1548-1628-- married Elizabeth [Satcherell?]. Letters and other items in the Archives of London show at least two sons Francis and Thomas went to the Plymouth, Massachusetts Colony.

The rest of the source focuses on southern Kendalls, not those of New England.--Jillaine 17:23, 23 January 2010 (EST)

It doesn't seem like that the John or Thomas could be sons of John Kendall and Mary Miles as this would make his father somewhere around 68 when Francis was born about 1620 (deposed, two different occasions). Also his name wasn't Francis, alias Miles, Kendall, it was Francis Kendall alias Miles, so suggesting he was the son named Miles seems a misreading.

Thus Francis and Thomas would appear to be the sons of the last John, and the notation "New England" next to John, s/o John Kendall and Mary Miles, would appear to suggest John of Cambridge is their father. But, as you say, this is basically still unsubstantiated without knowing where this all came from. --Jrich 17:44, 23 January 2010 (EST)