Person talk:Israel Packard (1)

Marriage? no sources [26 March 2010]

Source:Packard, Theophilus. Genealogies of Samuel Packard of Bridgewater, Massachusetts and of Abel Packard of Cummington, Massachusetts says nothing about a marriage for this Israel, s/o Samuel (#10, p. 6). Neither does Source:Mitchell, Nahum. History of the Early Settlement of Bridgewater, in Plymouth County, Massachusetts, Including an Extensive Family Register says Israel was appointed Trooper 1671 and no farther account of him. Source:Cutter, William Richard. Genealogical and Personal Memoirs Relating to the Families of Boston and Eastern Massachusetts lists Israel as a son of Samuel but has absolutely no other details about him.

The Packard Genealogy, however, does say that his nephew Israel, s/o Zaccheus (#22, p. 8) had a wife Hannah --- (m. Taunton 1701 per Taunton VRs). There is no marriage for any Israel before 1735 in the Bridgewater VRs (Samuel moved to Bridgewater in 1660 when his son Israel was 14 so this is where we would expect to find it), no children born in Bridgewater to any Israel before Seth in 1703, which was the son of the nephew.

Unfortunately, as no source is given on this page, one must suspect that the marriage to an unknown Hannah is the resulting of confusing this Israel with his nephew Person:Israel Packard (2). --Jrich 20:01, 25 March 2010 (EDT)

Jrich, please feel free to make corrections, add sources, etc. and move on. This is genealogy by collaboration, not confrontation. I don't know where I got the confused information as I have had it for a very long time. Israel is not a person of particular interest to me as he is the brother of my ancestor, John. Unlike you, I do not feel it is necessary to submit only perfectly documented data as I hope what I submit will invite improvement by persons such as yourself. I appreciate your efforts, but I can do without the acerbic tone. My biggest issue here is to identify John's wife, Judith Winslow. She was once accepted by the Mayflower society as the granddaughter of John Winslow and Mary Chilton, but is no longer as she wasn't mention in John,Jr's will.--Scot 14:45, 26 March 2010 (EDT)

Is this the person who once proposed (among other things): "Screen the sources and reject submissions based on questionab[l]e sources or those known to be flawed." Does questionable sources include no sources? At least a questionable source can be argued against. Nothing can be done with no sources.

Sorry if you thought my tone was ascerbic. I spent three hours looking into this Israel Packard when I was interested in the other one merely because the page Israel Packard and Hannah Unknown came up on a search and I wanted to avoid creating a duplicate. I was trying to collaborate. The page didn't have any sources and that is what made it hard for me to do so.

Yes it is hard to document things well. I feel it is at least three times as hard to document a fact with a single source as it is to simply enter the fact and leave it for some other person to document. I believe undocumented facts are not collaborating. They do not give the reader any basis for assessing the fact and its credibility. The reader must still do the work from scratch.

I don't imagine your dump of sources onto Israel's page will be very helpful to many readers. Perhaps one or two will pursue them all to find the three and a half that actually have anything to do with Israel (6, 7, 12, and a page in 13 other than the one cited). If source 12 had been posted, I would have known right away this was simply an misidentification and could have responded to the source in a discussion, instead of trying to locate an imagined source that turned out not to be there, and having to complain about a lack of sources.

1. Stonham Aspal Parish Register Transcript. LDS film 991989

No access, but doubts this has anything about Israel since he was born in New England, not in England.

2. "Daniel Cushing's Record", NEHGR, XV, 25; C. E. Banks, The Planters of the Commonwealth, Boston, 1930, 194

p. 27 says 1638 Samuel Packer and his wife and child came from Windham and settled in New England. Nothing about Israel.

3. NEHGR, XLVI, 187

Corrections to Savage's Dictionary, p. 3:327: Samuel Packard in W. - 1655 to 1664. Selectman. Removed to Bridgwater. His daughter Hannah m. Clement Briggs, Jr., who died 1669. Packard & his daughter settled estate of Briggs. she m. second Thomas Randall of Easton.

4. E. W. Peirce, Civil, Military and Professional Lists of Plymouth and Rhode Island Colonies, Boston, 1881, 40 et seq.

On p. 40 Samuel Packer of Bridgewater is listed as a constable in 1664.

On p. 53 Samuel Packer of Bridgewater is listed as a surveyor of highways in 1671.

On p. 59 Samuel Packard is licensed to keep an inn in Bridgewater 8 Mar 1671.

On p. 71 Samuel Packard of Bridgewater is listed as an ensign on 2 Oct 1689.

5. Town Records of Bridgewater, Massachusetts 1656-1683, Taunton, 1988, 31

No easy access to this source so can't comment on it.

6. G. E. Bowman, "Samuel Packard's Will", The Mayflower Descendant, XV, 253

Dated 29 Oct 1684, signficant because it does not mention Israel or any heirs (abstract posted on Family:Samuel Packard and Elizabeth Unknown (1)).

7. "The Hobart Journal", NEHGR, CXXI, 19

[1646 Julia] 19 Samuell Hannah Israell Peck [bapt]

8. ibid, 24-25

[1651 Aprill] 20 Zechaus Jane and Abigail Parker bapt

9. NEHGR, XII, 349 [Boston Records, Weymouth Births] John son of Sam & Eliz. Pacer 20 : 5 mo : 55

10. NEHGR, IX, 314

[Plymouth Colony Records, Taunton] Thomas Auger [Alger?] to Elizabeth Packer [Packard?], of Br., NOv. 14, 1665.

11. Vital Records of Taunton, Massachusetts to the year 1850, Boston, 1928-29, Vol. II, 356

Parker, Elizabeth [T.P.R. Elezebeth Paker] of Bridgwatter and --- [T.P.R. [worn]gg[worn]], Nov. 14, 1665. [Elizabeth Packer of Bridgwater and Thomas Auger, P.C.R.]

12. ibid, 349

Packard, Israel and Hannah Crosman, July 16, 1701. [Israel Packer, PR21]

13. Nahum Mitchell, History of ... Bridgewater..., Massachusetts, ..., (1840), Baltimore, 1970, 40

Appears to refer to p. 39 which discusses activity during King Philip's War and mentions Ensign Samuel Packard (Jr.) and John Packard, but not Israel.

Of course, also, p. 264 under Samuel Packard's list of children: "Thomas was here 1673, and Israel was appointed Trooper 1671, and no further account of them."

--Jrich 16:44, 26 March 2010 (EDT)