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Facts and Events
Jason Bordeaux saw her name as "Marszak."
References
- ↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 Jason Bordeaux, Rochester, [email protected]
e-mail, 1999 Only connection is the name, but Marszalkiewicz is not a common name. - ↑ Jason Bordeaux ([email protected]) in Rochester, MN found this one. Now living in North Carolina
Her name was "Marszak" Census. Could be, but need more proof.
Not a common name.
Written out, Marszal would have a "slashed l" in Polish script. That could have been mistaken for a "k."
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Thanks for writing with all this new information and please keep me in the
loop.
I'm looking at my notes where I copied death certificate information in St. Loius
County. I would have copied the certificates, but they wanted $12 apiece
whether the certificate was certified or not.
Record #221
died in St. Louis County, Duluth, 101 Ave. West
Barbara Katerin Sobczyk
residence 2316 W. 5th St.
white female
died 17 June, 1936
husband Joseph P. Sobczyk
born unknown
born in Poland
age 65
trade - housewife
father - Koscielski, born Poland
mother - Marzak, born Poland
informant - Joseph Sobczyk, Duluth, MN
buried at Polish Cemetery, Duluth, MN 20 June, 1936
This is the only death certificate I have seen where the informant gave the
surname name of both parents but not the given name. That is apparently
what they are... surnames. There were no initials or anything else to identify
a real person. There was not even a question mark or a blank in front of these
surnames. When I get the opportunity, I'll go and look for some of the siblings
of Barbara Katherine Sobczyk in the death certificates and see if I can find a
better match to Marszalkiewicz.
Jason Bordeaux
603 Margaret St NE
Chatfield, MN 55923
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-----Original Message-----
From: BRIAN MARSHALL [1]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:39 AM
To: raymarsh; rgbates
Cc: bordeaux; bmarshal; mj.marshall; jmars35040; meanface; marshall
Subject: Re: FW: Marszalkiewicz - Marszalkowa - Marszalek
Who is Pauline?
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Bri-
I have never mentioned her in the past because the lead sounded kinda
weak. But in genealogy, it is never wise to throw anything away. And
in this case, I didn't.
A guy from Rochester named Jason Bordeaux emailed me sometime last
year and said he was researching his wife's family. She was descended
from Jozef Peter Sobczyk in Duluth.
About 1887, a Barbara Katherine Klowsowska married Sobczyk. Barbara
was the daugher of John Koslowski (the Polish language is inflected and
thus the -a and -i are feminine and masculine word endings.
John was married in Poland to a Pauline Marszalek. Jason inquired as to
whether or not I thought that that name might be the same as
"Marszalkiewicz?"
Barbara was born in NYC in 1870, which would make their coming over
here two years before John & Andrew and four or five years before Anna and
John Michor.
The Koslowskis are not found on the 1875 Census, leading to the possibility
that they stayed in New York until maybe, as Duluth began to revive
in the late 1870's, they came out west. They are on the 80, 85 and 95
Census.
In fine Marszalkiewicz tradition, Pauline had 9 children, making her a
piker though. If she is a sister, that would come to about 60 kids for
four people. I guess that is what is meant by "populate the earth."
I don't know if I ever mentioned it, but there was also a Peter Marshall
living above and rooming with Andrew in the 1890's when Andrew had
the saloons. He was of an age to be a brother.
But these people might be cousins too.
I'm going to have to look at the Census and City Directory information
again to double check Bordeaux's information.
I knew that the names were close, but also knew that they were also
distinct Polish names today. I have corresponded with Fred
Hoffman in the past. Fred has written "Polish Surnames: Origins and
Meanings", which is the bible in its field. He works actively with the
genealogy community. Very, very few would dare argue with him.
When I was looking in the Polish LDS films, I noticed all three names in
the same geographical area. I knew that -owa was feminine and
-wiecz was "son of" etc. But the first names seemed to be the same.
I did find a Tomasz and Maria Marszalkiewicz (John and Andrew's parents'
names) in a little village of Budziszweko, just northwest of the small
town of Skoki, just northwest of Gnesen ten miles or so. It was for the
birth of a child about 1852, putting it in the right time frame.
I am going to look at a third Polish film next week (I am just scanning
them now for general content and review and will go back and do
detailed transcriptions later.
Rick Bates, now in San Diego has been the big promoter on this. The
funny thing is, it started out to be clues as to the Borowiak whereabouts,
but that is turning out to be quite tenuous right now. He makes some
assumptions at times which are just not warranted. But I am grateful
to him for pointing the way. And boy, he sure is enthusiastic about
this. He is retired from ATT and this is his main preoccupation now.
You know about what I know now. Nobody ever said this would be easy,
but it gets more complicated the further back you go. But it is a hell of
a lot more interesting than crossword puzzles.
Roar
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Reply Separator
Subject: FW: Marszalkiewicz - Marszalkowa - Marszalek
Author: [email protected] at INTERNET
Date: 12/14/00 12:58 AM
Fred Hoffman is THE authority on Polish names, perhaps in
the entire world, at least in terms of etymology.
Looks like we're going to have to expand our searching and
include Pauline as far more probable than we have in the
past.
-----Original Message-----
From: William F. Hoffman
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 2:06 PM
To: Ray Marshall
Subject: Re: Marszalkiewicz - Marszalkowa - Marszalek
To: Ray Marshall <[email protected]>
Hi, Ray,
> With respect to the above three names, might they be used
> interchangeably, especially in the smaller, more rural areas of
> Poland? Might a pastor put his own "twist" on the spellings of names?
> How many liberties might a person take when interpreting names?
> And, of course, I fully understand that statistics and probabilities are
> often not of much help when doing family history. People have a
> way of being contrary.
These names could indeed be interchanged. In fact, MARSZALKOWA is the
correct
way of saying "Mrs. Marszalek." The suffix -owa is added to surnames derived
from nouns to make feminine forms, so that Mrs. Nowak is pani Nowakowa. Add
that -owa to Marszalek and the -e- drops out, giving you Marszalkowa. So
that
particular form is perfectly correct when referring to females. (In modern
Polish they're getting away from this -owa business, but that's a
comparatively recent development.)
As for MARSZALKIEWICZ, the -ewicz is "son of," and again, when added to
Marszalek that -e- drops out to give Marszalk- + -ewicz = Marszalkiewicz. So
if a person were called Marszalek, it would be the most natural thing in the
world to call his son Marszalkiewicz. That usage might persist, say, until
the father dies, at which point his son would become THE Marszalek, and his
son, in turn, would be Marszalkiewicz. So you see, there is a logical basis
for using these names almost interchangeably. Add in a touch of human
sloppiness and the lack of necessity for consistent surnames -- no one was
filling out government forms or applying for credit cards, so there was no
real need to pay a lot of attention to surname consistency -- and you may
end
up seeing Marszalek, Marszalkowa, Marszalkiewicz, even Marszalkowski all
used
for the same family. Poles sense that the names are closely connected, so it
would be that big a deal to interchange them occasionally. Everyone who knew
them would know who they were.
> I am well acquainted with John Radzilewski who has been a
> wonderful asset for the Polish Genealogy Community here in
> Minnesota. Did I read that you are in Orchard Lake now, or
> in Chicago?
I'm living now in North Aurora, a western suburb of Chicago, about 30 miles
from the big city itself. I have been to Orchard Lake twice in the last 3
years, while speaking at Seminars of the Polish Genealogical Society of
Michigan, and all I can say is, I wish I lived in the area. It's beautiful!
Fred Hoffman
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