Help talk:Images

Ancestry and Footnote images question [22 July 2009]

Can anyone provide a bit of clarification regarding the Ancestry image license? In many cases, Ancestry is sharing images of historical documents (census etc) that wouldn't normally be copyrighted, although certainly their work in scanning the image, if not copyrighted, certainly is "licensed" in some way (presumably the limited use license).

Solvieg updated the license to an image I'd posted from Ancestry ([[Image:Remeschatus.jpg]]) from the Ancstry license to the Fair Use (limited portion of a historic image) license. Does that change imply that I can post *portion* of *historical (generally noncopyrighted) images* under the "Fair Use" license? Does that apply to one page of the census (unclipped)? i.e. is that a *portion* (for purposes of the license) because it is one page out of the several gazillion pages that is the census for that year? Or would I need to use the Ancestry Limited License to post a complete Ancestry image of a given page?

Sorry, I made a mistake. The best license to use for images obtained from Ancestry is the Ancestry Limited Use license. The fair use: small snippet of a historical document usage only applies if you're copying a "small snippet" of a single page.

And, could I post a clipping from an otherwise presumed copyrighted source (a recent book) that I have access to via Ancestry? Would that be posted under Fair Use? or under the Ancestry limited license?

I guess I'm asking for a criteria to distinguish between Ancestry limited license and Fair Use license usage. One criteria is clearly whether the image is clipped. What are the other factors?

Here's what I believe are the relevant portions of Ancestry's Terms and Conditions contains graphics, information, data, editorial and other content accessible by any registered Internet user and similar content which is accessible only to our subscribing members (“the Content”). Whether in the free section or in the subscription section of the Service, all Content is owned and/or copyrighted by Ancestry, or third party providers and may be used only in accordance with this limited use license.
You are licensed to use the Content only for personal or professional family history research, and may download Content only as search results relevant to that research. The download of the whole or significant portions of any work or database is prohibited. Resale of a work or database or portion thereof, except as specific results relevant to specific research for an individual, is prohibited. Online or other republication of Content is prohibited except as unique data elements that are part of a unique family history or genealogy.
While I am not a lawyer I believe the above is far too broad and does not validate their claim. I know for a fact that there is original material written by myself and others that has been downloaded by third parties from the AFAOA website and then uploaded to that falls within that for which they claim copyright, even though they are clearly in violation of copyright law.--Scot 10:52, 22 July 2009 (EDT)
This is not a legal opinion, but I believe that this means you can upload complete images from Ancestry (of any content) to WeRelate in accordance with their limited use license so long as they apply to your specific genealogy.
At WeRelate we require that you use either a small snippet of an image or a lower-resolution image for an image to qualify as "Fair use". Because of this, I'd use "fair use" only when the license for an image can't be found or the license doesn't allow posting full-resolution copies.

Finally, I have been very cautious about posting images in general, but I would really like to attach (from Footnote) some of the Revoutionary War Pension application documents for people I'm researching. Some of these files are absolutely unique and invaluable in providing specific genealogy data (marriages, deaths, children, military service, signatures), as well as unique insights into people. I can, of course, cite the source as Revolutionary War Pension Applications, where Footnote is the repository, and I can include a link to the specific image in my citation.

But in principal these are National Archives documents and not in any way copyrighted. Certainly Footnote has the right to license usage of their IMAGES of these documents, and usage of the images seems to be limited to 200 a year for any given individual, and that credit to Footnote for the images must be provided. Footnote Terms and conditions are here. Can anyone help me with an interpretation of what this means in terms of WeRelate reuse

I believe the following is the relevant portion of the Footnote terms of use: does not claim a copyright to images already in the public domain that it has then converted into a digital format. However, through agreements we have obtained, and may continue to obtain, certain images or documents that are protected by copyrights or that, even if in the public domain, are subject to restrictions on reuse. Unless such specific restrictions apply, we encourage Members to reproduce public domain images from the Website for their own personal use. By agreeing to these Terms of Service, however, you agree to limit your reuse and republication of such public domain images to small portions of the Footnote collection. For purposes of this paragraph, a "small portion" means a limit of no more than 200 images per year. If you republish public domain images, you agree to credit as the source of the digital image, unless additional specific restrictions apply.
Again this is not a legal opinion, but based upon my reading of this paragraph I'd say that you are free to post public domain images obtained from Footnote on WeRelate so long as they apply to your own genealogy, you don't post too many, and you credit as the source of the digital image. I assume that the "unless specific restrictions apply" clauses are meant for non-public-domain images at Footnote, and that those restrictions would be spelled out in conjunction with the specific image. I'll ask Dallan to add a "Footnote limited use" license to the license options when we return from vacation.

Thanks, -Brenda --kennebec1 12:33, 9 July 2009 (EDT)

And another question regarding Family Search: I can't find terms of use at the Family Search Pilot site. If a document is available there that is not copyrighted (historical document or public record), does anyone know if it is alright to repost the image at WeRelate? or is it better to just provide a link?

Thanks, Brenda--kennebec1 14:05, 9 July 2009 (EDT)

You can find the FamilySearch Record Search terms by clicking on the "Conditions of use" link at the bottom of the page. I believe the relevant portion is
You may view, download, and print material from this site only for your personal, noncommercial use unless we specifically indicate that other uses are permitted. You may not use this site or information found at this site (including the names and addresses of those who submit information) for selling or promoting products or services, soliciting clients, or any other commercial purpose.
Based upon this, my non-legal-opinion is that you could post images from FamilySearch Record Search on WeRelate as well so long as they apply to your genealogy and you're not getting paid for the work. Just attribute them to FamilySearch like you would the Footnote images. I'll ask Dallan to add a "FamilySearch limited use" license as well.
--sq 11:12, 10 July 2009 (EDT)

Adding FS and Ancestry to the FAQ [7 September 2012]

Sorry to keep having these conversations all over WeRelate, but I was thinking that adding some text to the Image FAQ regarding Ancestry and FamilySearch images would be a great start for helping people to find this info. I'm going to just move your great answers from the talk page to the main help page. If you want to change/revert, then please feel free. - Jdfoote1 10:25, 7 September 2012 (EDT)