Person talk:Jonathan Powers (1)

[2 August 2014]

Jonathan Powers-111, was born to Bridget and Jonathan-l, in 12 Jun 1759 Jonathan Powers-11, was born to Hannah and Jonathan-l, in 22 Jul 1744 Jonathan Powers-1, was born to Elizabeth and Daniel, 13 Oct 1704

Jonathan Powers-11,birth 1744, could not have married elizabeth Kidder in 1725 as he was not born until 1744. Jonathan Powers-ll,birth 1744, married Susannah Willoughby 28 Nov 1764. History of the town of Hollis, N.H. Page 344: samuel Thomas

Jonathan Powers-1,birth 1704, married Bridget after the death of Hannah his first wife. Hannah was 39 years old when she died in 1749. Her last child was born in 1749.

Bridget died 21 Sept 1763 one day after the birth of her last child, Jerusha b. 20 Sept 1763. She was 34 years of age.

I had to do the math.--Pat rayburn 01:35, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

I found this under: Find A Grave: Power Burying Ground, Littleton, Middlesex, Mass. The Massachusetts Historical Commission refer to this cemetery , MACRIS as "Lit.801, Powers-Reed Burying Ground,Littleton, Middlesex, Mass. Power Family Cemetery on Walter Power farm. Several generations were buried before the farm went out of family hands and was purchashed by the Reed brothers. To the horror of the community, the Reeds plowed over the old burying ground in 1850, using the surviving tombsones to build a fence and leaving no trace of the graves. There was no law at that time about descecrating graves.

I found the buriel dates of Walter Powers, Tryall Shepard, Daniel Powers.--Pat rayburn 01:59, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Lieut.Daniel Powers-11 brother to Isaac Powers-1 [31 July 2014]

Chelmford Historical Society: Kidder;

John Kidder b. 1655/6 d, 7 Oct 1731 M. 3 Sept 1684 Lydia Parker Children: Elizabeth Kidder b. 12 Jul 1704 m. 25 Dec 1725 Jonathan Powers son of Issac and Mary (Winship) Powers. Children: Jonathan b. 18 Jul 1726 d. 16 Oct 1777

This information is from the line of Isaac, brother to Lieut. Daniel Powers.--Pat rayburn 21:10, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

That's interesting, but still basically an unsubstantiated assertion. The website says most of the information comes from a book, Source:Stafford, Morgan Hewitt. Genealogy of the Kidder Family : Comprising the Descendants in the Male Line of Ensign James Kidder, 1626-1676, or Cambridge, and on p. 12, that book says in a listing of the children of Elizabeth Kidder and Jonathan Powers (surname Powers):

"1. Jonathan, b. 18 July 1726, d. 16 Oct. 1777"

That's it. It doesn't say how it knows this, it doesn't say where the death occurred, it doesn't even say who Jonathan married or who his children were. Not a good way for the author to convince readers he is an authority on this person.

I don't find that death date listed in any vital record (americanancestors.org has about 1/2 to 2/3 of Massachusetts online), I don't find any gravestone on Find A Grave, there is no probate file for Jonathan Powers listed in the Index to Middlesex County Probate. Therefore, I have no idea where that death date came from. There would need to be some information showing which Jonathan Powers this is. A big start would be to have a concrete death location. After all, it could be his father who signed up to serve in the Revolution at age 70 so was alive in 1775 (the above book gives no death date for the father). It could be the mother's death date and it got typeset in the wrong place. Until you know why that date is given you essentially don't know anything. The big problem here, too, is if this was correct - if - then all the Jonathan Powers would then be paired with wives or dead, and none are left to marry Susannah Willoughby. I will try some more unorthodox searching to see if I can locate the source of this date, but right now I have no clue. --Jrich 21:58, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Well that was a quick search: [1]

Name: Jonathan Powers Gender: Male Death Date: 16 Oct 1777 Father's Name: Aaron Powers Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B00713-9 System Origin: Massachusetts-EASy GS Film number: 1871030 Reference ID: P69

Film 1871030 is Church records, 1760-1935 [Greenwich, Massachusetts]. So this death is a Jonathan Powers of Greenwich, s/o Aaron Powers. Not our Jonathan. --Jrich 22:10, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Removed notes [1 August 2014]

I removed the following notes.

Littleton, Mass. Historical Sketch by Harwood: Daniel Powers b,1669--Jonathan powers-1, b, 1704, Jonathan Powers-11,b.22 July 1744.

This overlaid an existing source citation which I am restoring. I have looked through this short book and don't see that it says anything about Jonathan Powers at all! So it doesn't seem to have any purpose on this page. A proper source citation and page number will help ensure we are talking about the same reference.

Geni.Ancestry.-Chelmford Historical Society: Kidder: Powers: John Kidder,b.1655 m Lydia Parker. Children: Elizabeth Kidder b. 12 July 1704, m. 25 Dec 1725 jONATHAN POWERS, SON OF ISAAC POWERS and Mary (Winship) Powers.

Children of Jonathan Powers, son of Isaac: Jonathan Powers b. 18 July 1726, d. 16 Oct 1777 of LITTLETON,MASS. May have married Bridget.

Jonathan Powers, b. 22 Jul 1744 was the son of Jonathan Powers, b. 13 Oct 1704 who was the son of Daniel Powers, b. 10 May 1669,who was the brother of Issac Powers, b. abt. 1665. Their father was Walter Powers,b. 1639/1640

The death date form the Chelmsford Historical Society was refuted yesterday (above). It belongs to a child who died in Greenwich and not this Jonathan. Thus that Jonathan did not marry anybody.

Numbering systems are inappropriate on WeRelate and are being removed (again). --Jrich 17:20, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

This is all very new to me. What do you mean by numbering systems.--Pat rayburn 20:59, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Jonathan 1 Powers

Jonathan 11 Powers

Abel-1 Wright

I believe, or at least if I was asked, I would say this is discouraged because any numbering system tends to be very personal and counts from some arbitrary starting point. So they would not necessarily be understood or shared by other researchers using this website. Even more traditional numbering systems like Abel-1 Wright that count from the original immigrant would not be meaningful to people in other countries. For example, there is a William-1 Reed who is actually William-4 Reed if you continue the family back into England (going on memory so numbers may be off). Case in point, I have no idea why you are choosing the numbers you are using for the various Jonathan Powers.

When there are numbering systems used in sources, those are usually reported as part of the source citation, but not in the name fields. (For example, see Person:Bartholomew Pearson (1). The Early Settlers of Rowley assigns a number to each person it covers, e.g., 80-53 or 80-10, but it applies to that source and is not universal. In fact, the later edition of this same book, I believe, reordered their whole numbering system so Bartholomew Pearson wouldn't even be 80-53 in the new edition.) --Jrich 21:59, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Genealogy of Willoughby and Chamberlain [5 August 2014]

Deputy Governor Francis Willoughby Nehemiah Willoughby

Susanna Willoughby b. 26 May 1744, d. 1828 +Jonathan Powers b. 22 July 1744, d. 5 Nov 1815

William Chamberlain

Anna Chamberlain b. 3 Apr 1712 Billerica, Middlesex, MA, d. 3 Feb 1773 Hollis, NH +John Willoughby b. 25 Dec 1707, d. 2 Feb 1793 Hollis, NH

Susanna Willoughby b. 26 May 1744 Billerica, Middlesex, MA, d. 1828 Dunstable, NH +Jonathan Powers b. 22 July 1744 Lancaster, Colchester, MA, d. 5 Nov 1815

m. 28 Nov 1764 Hollis, NH

Where was the death record found on Jonathan Powers? I know this is my side of the family as told to me by my mother and her sister before they passed away. I'm at a loss as to where to look for proof of Jonathan's death.

+--Pat rayburn 19:31, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Not sure what you are asking here, so I attempt to will address all.

The death record of Jonathan Powers in 1766 is above, given by the link. It is an index entry describing information found by a volunteer on the film of actual church records in Greenwich. Assuming it was indexed correctly, a church record is usually a high quality reliable source, being made as the event happens by people involved. If it wasn't indexed correctly, that would be easy to determine, as the microfilm number is given, and could be rented and investigated.

The death record of Jonathan Powers in 1815, I don't know. I suspect an error. See the death of Jonathan and Susannah's son John: here. Exact same date! 1766 + 49 = 1815. So suspect somebody took sloppy notes, or used index cards, and got them mixed up, or something like that.

The death date of this Jonathan Powers, specifically, I don't know where to find it. I haven't found a contemporary record that appears to be this Jonathan. This happens sometimes. Deaths were not recorded as well as births and marriages, property was given away to children so no will was needed, or he moved and died somewhere nobody has checked, or he was buried on the back of a farm and the gravestone was destroyed and there is no record at all any more. Land and probate records for Hillsborough county don't seem to be on line. A motivated researcher would start renting microfilm looking for anything they can find. Jonathan and Susannah's last child was born 1785 in Dunstable, NH, it appears, so looking for mention of him after that date in church records, town meetings, probate files, land records to see if he moved, died, or whatever clue pops up. Study the lives of the children and try to see if there is a pattern in where they lived, etc. Hard, tedious, research with no guarantee of finding anything, but the way to solve these kinds of problems.

I am not familiar what Genealogy of Willoughby and Chamberlain is, but given the list of books discussed on the main page for Jonathan, clearly finding an assertion in print means little, on the Internet even less, unless it explains how it knows something, e.g., based on a gravestone, based on a will, based on vital records, or some other source having a primary basis that can be verified. It appears all the previous authors discussed on Jonathan's page were not aware there were two Powers families; had only subsets of the available records, i.e, from Lancaster or Dunstable, but not both; made lots of assumptions; and then printed their work as fact. This is actually pretty common in genealogy, unfortunately, and a problem that I hope WeRelate will help fix, by forcing people to reconcile their sources with other people's sources. This requires, as noted, finding verifiable sources having a primary basis. --Jrich 20:54, 5 August 2014 (UTC)