Person talk:John Niles (8)

Straightening this up [29 January 2019]

I am trying to address who Sarah Winslow married and naturally fixing this page is part of that task. The following discussion was taken from Person page and moved here. It is hard to address everything as sources were partially or not cited, and the situation is complicated by an apparent erroneous record, but considering evidence in total, it is significantly wrong and is going to be erased, and correct data inserted with sources.

Who are we talking about

We are talking about John (i.e., no H.) Niles born about 1778, the father of Zebulon Winslow Niles. The age is critical.

John H. Niles appears to be a different person, who was born about 1809 and died in 1843. There is some confusion in the 1840 census, which I will cover later. Some further research involving deeds may be useful.

Michigan [29 January 2019]

Moved to Royal Oak Oaklamd County, Michigan in 1832; moved back after his wife died in 1848; lived with his son Zebulon from 1842 to 1862.

No source is provided for either the relocation or the death of his wife.

In the 1840 census, I find only one John Niles in Michigan, age 30-39 (Madison, MI, [1]). Clearly not him. Meanwhile, I find in Danville, VT (here) John H. Niles whose household includes a man 60-70 plus a man 30-40. There is a woman of similar ages to each of them as well. The older man appears to be this man, in Vermont, not Michigan.

By census, I see no reason to think John Niles ever moved to Michigan, and given no source for that assertion, I must treat it as false.

By the way, the 1840 census just cited is the only record that might possibly be construed as suggesting John H. Niles is the name of the older man. The census uses it as the head of the household and we don't which of the two men is the head of the household. We would have to assume the old man is the head of the household to think this page could be named John H. Niles. Given that no other record names the older man John H. Niles, I believe this assumption is invalid, and he was resident at his son's household.

Later Censuses

I looked up John Niles in the 1860 USC at Morgan VT today. He's listed on the same page of the census index as Z.W. Niles. Going to that page shows John age 82 born NH living in the family of Z.W. Niles. Z.W. Niles 57 VT
Sarah C. 46 VT
Allen P. 20 VT
Laura A. 14 VT
John Niles 82 NH Z.W. is Zebulon Winslow Niles. Sarah C. is Sarah C. Morrill. Allen P. is Allen Pope Niles. Laura A. is Zeb's dau by his 2nd wife Sarah C Morrill. Zeb's first wife was Sally G. Pope by whom he had 3 children: Mary Ann, John W., & Allen P. Laura A., born c1845, was most likely by his 2nd wife Sarah C. Morrill.

See lines 2-6 on this page. Morgan, VT is in Orleans County, VT. They are also living there in 1850 (here, lines 25-30), though John's birthplace is shown as Mass here instead of NH as in 1860. Oddly, no wife is shown for Zebulon, though Zebulon's two marriages are in 1830 and 1844 respectively, so there should have been one. Also, the person corresponding exactly in age to "Laura A." is here called Julia or Lucia A. Cutting. No obvious resolution to the last item is seen, as the appropriate birth record has not been located for any of these possibilities, and census information is not very reliable.

John's Wife [29 January 2019]

John, age 82, was the son of Ephraim 5 & Hannah (Houghton) Niles. John's wife was Nancy Winslow but it's possible she was Sarah Winslow as it appears they named no dau's Nancy for their mother. "Nancy," sons John H. & Zeb, and Zeb's first wife, all supposedly died early 1843. They may be buried at the Pope Family Cem. That cem would be worth a visit for further clues on relationships.

Hmmm. Nancy died in 1843 but above it said John's wife died in Michigan in 1848. There seems to be some self-contradiction going on here.

Let's start with John's son Zebulon Winslow Niles. It does not seem far-fetched to suggest that his mother was a daughter of Zebulon Winslow. Zebulon W. Nile's death record in 1889 names his mother as Sally Winslow (here). The problem with this is that his birth was in 1803 based on his age at death, and Sally was barely 15 at the time of his birth, and assuming she married before the birth, probably 14 at the time any marriage would have happened. Further, we can show it was not Sally, as the 1810 Census shows John's wife was 25-44, while Sally would have been 22. In the 1820 census, both John and wife are over 45 (Sally Winslow would have been 32), and in 1830 census both are 50 to 60 (Sally Winslow would have been 42).

Now this information comes from a death record, informed not by Zebulon, but a survivor. I believe the mother is named wrong, possibly confusion over hearing about Zebulon's first wife? I have not found any other record naming John's wife as Sally.

So Sarah/Sally Winslow does not appear to be John's wife. Source:Canterbury, Merrimack, New Hampshire, United States. History of the Town of Canterbury, New Hampshire, 1727-1912, p. 1; and Source:Cross, Lucy R. H. History of Northfield, New Hampshire, 1780-1905 : In Two Parts, with Many Biographical Sketches and Portraits, Also Pictures of, p. 326, both say Sally Winslow married in 1826 to Elias Abbott as his second wife; and such an assertion is supported by a marriage record here.

Who was John's 'wife? Source:Greeley, George Hiram. Genealogy of the Greely--Greeley Family, which covers Zebulon Winslow's family, says on p. 145, that Anna, 1773, "married --- Niles and moved to Vermont". Combine this with Nancy being sometimes used for Ann (wikipedia:Nancy (given name): "The name Nancy was originally a diminutive form of Anne or Ann."), and we appear to have an answer. Nancy "wife of John Niles" died in Danville, VT, (not Michigan) in early 1843. If the age is listed on the gravestone, it is buried and can't be seen, but the Vermont death record lists it as 69. This would make her birth before Jan 1774, i.e., sometime in 1773, which matches the birth of Anna Winslow, d/o Zebulon Winslow, as recorded in the Loudon, NH, town records (here).

Regarding no daughter Nancy, I have a candidate. Nancy (Niles) Wilmarth (gravestone) is about the right age. No parents are listed her death record, so this speculation could be wrong, but is not immediately contradicted. Only more research will tell.

Birthplace

The 1860 USC says John, age 82, was born c1778 at NH. John's father, Ephraim 5, served in the Rev War. His pension application offers some clues on his whereabouts during the time in question. Ephraim entered service at Milton MA in April 1775 where he was residing. He enlisted again for 8 months at Bridgewater MA summer of 1777, where he then resided; also, summer of 1778 from Bridgewater to RI for about 6 weeks. Afterwards, at Bridgewater, he enlisted for four months and marched to Ft Ticonderoga by way of Charlestown NH. Thus he was in NH, according to his application. He does not remember exactly when. Was his wife with him? Did they stay long enough at Charlestown NH for their son John to be born?

Note above comment about different birthplaces being listed in 1850 vs. 1860 censuses.

Death date

No source for the 1862 death is given and none has been found.

On the other hand, a John Niles b. 1778, died in Derby VT, in 1867 here. Derby is where son Zebulon was living in 1870 (here, line 16) and where Zebulon died, as noted above. --Jrich 04:47, 30 January 2019 (UTC)