Person talk:John Edmiston (1)

temporary holding place [8 December 2009]

These materials were in Dlbradley's original presentation. I've temporarily moved them here while I organize the article for the Southwest Virginia Project format. I'll move them back to the appropriate spot when the structure of the article is finalized. Q 19:50, 17 February 2009 (EST)

It is alright with me--Dlbradley1 12:51, 20 February 2009 (EST)

Family Name Spelling [10 December 2009]

The family actually used the Edmiston" spelling in the 18th century. It comes out with Edmondson and other spellings in the records because clerks tended to spell names phonetically -- and Edmiston is probably phonetic variation of Edmondston. Around 1800, for reasons unknown, some branches went with Edmondson, some stayed with Edmiston, and there were even other variations, but in our famous, never Edmundson. John is probably more recognizable to us as Edmondson, but he would have written Edmiston.

Actually Erik Edmundsson king of Birka (Sweden) is the earliest spelling I've seen. His father was Edmund Eriksson. Edmundsson = Edmund's son. The King of the Viking's his descendants essentially founded Poland, Russia, and Normandy. The royalty changed names. The family conquering and pillaging did not. I do believe that is the true origin of the family name.

Erik Edmundsson died in 906 (the spelling is still found in Europe). When the Norman Setons (north men of the sea towns, I say) arrive in Scotland we see a place called Edmondstone (Edmond's town or Edmond's castle or possibly even the clan of Edmonstone). The earliest use as a sir name in Scotland is Henricus de Edmundiston in 1248. One of the signers of the truce at Edinburgh Castle, of 20 July 1369 was John de Edmondiston Miles. With the arrival of sir John Edmonstone in 1371 that spelling briefly sticks.

About the time the Edmondstone's start to disappear in Scotland they show up in England, but it quikly becomes Edmondsone, Edmondson,and Edmonson. William Edmondson, the father of the Quaker movement in Ireland, was born in England in 1627 and goes to Ireland with his brother John when they are in The Parliamentary Army under Thomas Cromwell, thus continuing a family tradition of conquering and pillaging. After acquiring a new religion William Edmondson is known by that name in his and George Fox's publishing, though he is also known as Edmundson and Edmunson.

In the America's we also see Edmisten, Edmiston, Edmison and more. We're in the French and Indian War, the Revolutionary War, The War of 1812, The Civil War (but my 2g Grandpa would argue that was the 2nd War of Independence and back up his point with a shot gun.), and every argument since is bound to have an Edmondson on both sides. The preferred English spelling is Edmondson, but pick any of the above, or one of the infinite number of phonetic near misses and argue it is the correct version. It's a family tradition. Think all of these cannot possibly be the same family? Historians would agree with you, but DNA testing is beginning to show otherwise. Degrees and Pedigrees can not argue with chromosomes.--Dave E 21:39, 8 December 2009 (EST)

About John Edmiston [8 December 2009]

John no doubt came into the colony at Philadelphia, as did lots and lots of Scotch-Irish. He did spend some time around Philadelphia, since it is pretty clear that Col. William was born in Cecil Co. MD, which is just south of Chester Co. The Edmistons had land right on the border, so the records wobble from Cecil to Chester and back again.

John's father ought to be a William, if he followed the naming pattern, and there is a William visible in Chester Co. briefly in the 1730's, who was the father of a David Edmiston, who had an acreage on that county line and who is, I think a brother of John and Robert. No proof of that, but David's father is provably the William of 1732.

Allison, 1960 agrees with much of that. However, the main David Edmiston in the area settled on Elk Creek near Staunton, and was associated with the Tinkling Springs MH. This is on Beverly's Manor, to the north. This David Edmiston is easily shown to have been a recent emigrant. That seems to conflict with the idea that he might have come from Cecil County, son of William.

There is a record for a David Edmiston owning land near Timber Ridge---close to where John owned property. At first I assumed it was David of Elk Creek, but as I think about it, its possible that this is John's brother---a different David Edmiston altogether. This is something that needs to be looked at. Most folks seem to think that either David son of William of Cecil County, either remained in that area or moved to western PA. That needs to be examined.Q 07:32, 10 December 2009 (EST)

There is no will that anyone has ever found for John. I think he gave away his property in 1765 and thus had no estate worth probating.

There are several records showing that he and Margaret systematically disposed of their property about 1765. This is probably a preparation to moving to Grayson County on New River. I'm guessing that John either died in Grayson County, or shortlly after the c1770 move to the Holston watershed.Q 07:32, 10 December 2009 (EST)

The reference to Chalkley ... is the source of our saying that John died in 1771. But what it says is that an unspecified suit in the court is abated by John's death.

Good point. Needs elaboration. This fixes John's DOD as no later than 1771. It might be useful to find the specific date on which the suit was abated. If we can find when the suit was initiated that would bracket John's DOD, and give us insight into where he died as well. Q 07:32, 10 December 2009 (EST)

John's wife was Margaret, but whether she was Margaret Buchanan or some other name is not known. Buchanan is a good guess, is all that I can say.

Need more on why Buchanan is a "good guess". The following is part of it, but there's more to it than that---for example, we know that John and Margaret settled adjacent to Samuel Buchanan on Borden's grant. When did John marry Margaret? Presumably it was before the family got to Borden's Grant, so that means the Buchanans were probably near where John was living before 1740 (e.g., Cecil County.) Do we have evidence of Buchanan's in that area? Believe the answer is yes, I'd like to see this developed more completely. I might add that there is a James Buchanan is listed as an Elder of the Nottingham Presbyterian MH in 1733. The location of the MH (as well as its named) moved around quite a bit, but in 1733 it was in what is now the Community of Rising Sun, Cecil County MD. White, 1902 identifies several individuals who were undoubtedly members of this congregation. Among these are the Walkers who settled on Walkers Creek where it is thought John Edmiston originally settled prior to moving to Moffett/Hays Creek. The Buchanan's settled in this same general area (walkers Creek and Hays Creek watershed). There's a good chance that these Buchanans are related to James of Nottingham Presbyterian. Q 07:32, 10 December 2009 (EST)

A tract next door to John belonged to John Buchanan and was later sold to Samuel Buchanan. Apparently, John's mother Janet (Jane Jennet) Buchanan (as it appears in the records) lived there while son John was off extending the frontier. When she died, John Edmiston was her executor, so there was certainly some close connection between the families. I think Samuel lived thee with her before he bought the place, and that he is somehow in the same family.,

All of which is to say that (a) Janet Buchanan might have been an Edmiston ; (b) Margaret Edmiston might have been a Buchanan, and (c) the unnamed wife of Robert Edmiston might have been a Buchanan.

It is his descendants who married like mad with Samuel Buchanan's children.

Need to document that. Q 07:32, 10 December 2009 (EST)

The children are right, but outside of the first two, the birth dates are dubious -- I'm too lazy to check each one to see how close it is. We don't have birth dates, so someone is guessing based on the age of their children or their marriage. I do have some death dates: two are easy: Andrew and Robert were both killed at King's Mountain in 1780. John was wounded there, but survived and died in 1816 in TN. Elizabeth probably died in TN, don't know when, and Mary is also unknown.

I will work that information into the assessment. Q 07:32, 10 December 2009 (EST)

John Edmiston very possibly was born in Ireland and came to northern Maryland as a young man. It is equally possible that he was born in MD or southern PA, where a nest of Edmistons is apparent from the early 1700's. Since it is generally accepted that John's eldest son, Col. William, was born in Cecil Co. MD, it is probably that John married there or in neighboring Chester Co. PA. No record of his stay in either county has been found, but he apparently was there for several years.

I will have to check my notes, but I believe some of the Edmiston's are shown as elders of the Nottingham Presbyterian MH in what is now Rising Sun. Other elders included Buchanan's. A Samuel Houston played a significant role in the organization of that MH, along with a John Thompson. Some of the Walkers for whom Walkers Creek was named were of that meeting house. I will have to review further. OK Checked notes. The list of Elders for Nottingham MH for 1733 includes nine persons. Someshare surnames that appeared on Borden's Grant (e.g., Buchanan and Moore), but it has yet to be shown that they are connected. In anycase, I was wrong with regards to "Edmiston"---none by that surname are listed. The church records for this congregation have not been preserved, though scraps of information about them survive in the records of the New Castle Presbytery. So we can't easily check to see if the Edmiston's were members of this MH. Q 07:32, 10 December 2009 (EST)

Exactly when John Edmiston went out to the Virginia Valley is not in the records. However, in a much later trial, his son Samuel deposed that "he came on the land with his father's family and his brother William" and was living there from 1740 to 1745. The land in question seems to have been on Walker's Creek, since many years later, in 1806, James Mitchell deposed that John had lived on Walker's Creek before getting his land from Benjamin Borden.1 This land is part of the Borden Tract, in the southern part of old Augusta County, the part which later became Rockbridge County.

THAT is quite interesting. I'm fairly familiar with the Walkers Creek families, and I've noted proximity connections between some of them and the Edmiston's. Nothing concrete to show a family relationship, but the kind of thing that suggests it. (e.g., serving as executor, witnessing wills, land transactions and the like).

In 1742, John is listed on the Muster of Augusta Co., on Capt. John Buchanan's list.

Need source

At some point, he moved to land on Moffett's Creek, a few miles from Walker's Creek. There before 1743, he had land from Benjamin Borden Sr. (who died in that year), but the deed was not made until 1753.3 This land adjoined the land of Robert Edmiston and Samuel Buchanan. In 1806, David Sayers deposed that John purchased from Benjmain Borden Sr. in 1742; Hugh Fulton deposed that Edmonston lived on the place 59-60 years ago; and James Mitchell deposed that Edmondson was in possession more than 60 years since, and had previously lived on Walker's Creek. The source of all of John's land has not yet been ascertained. He is said to have owned more than 1000 acres.

Need source

Dave E Comments [14 December 2009]

Hello, I'm new here. This looks like a great group. I am a direct decedent of Robert (Edmiston) Edmondson (2) the brother of Person:John Edmiston (1). According to the Georgia clan (no I've never lived there) he is believed to have been born in Cecil county Maryland in 1695. Robert's will states that his wife is Jean (sometimes Jane) Buchcanon (sometimes Bohannan, the index of the will uses both spellings!). We believe Jean is a widow. Jean also leaves a will dated 1747 (we believe is was witnessed in 1747 and she died in 1751, one year after her husband Robert). I have only recently seen the index record, someone in the family does have an actual copy of the will. She references granddaughter Mary Bohannan daughter of son John, eldest daughter Elizabeth Bohannan, and second daughter Margret Campbell and “the tablecloth I brought from Ireland.” Executors: Joseph Culton, Robert Edmiston, Teste: Joseph Culton, Robert Edmiston, Francis McCown, Betty, proved August 1747 by Francis McCown.

Robert's will Wife Legatee Jean Edmiston, daughter Dorothy Edmiston, son James (my ancestor), and son William. Executors Thos McSpaden, Wm Edmiston. Teste Jno Edmisten: Samuel Buchanon. Proved 22nd May 1750 by Buchanon and Edmiston Summoned.

So I would say that Margaret (Buchanon) Campell was also a widow and the daughter of Jean Buchanon (Edmiston) Edmondson

My known lineage:

Robert (Edmiston) Edmondson b 1695 Cecil, MD d 1750 +Jean (Edmiston) Edmondson b ca 1680 Pennsylvania? Ireland? d 1751 Augusta Co, Va (*Appalachian Scotch-Irish Settlement)m unknown date Pennsylvania? Ireland?

James (Edmiston) Edmondson b ca 1725 Orange, Va* d ca 1792 Wilkes Co, NC* +Sarah Hayes b ca 1720 Orange, Va* d after 1800 Burkes Co, North Carolina* m 1748-49 Wilkes Co, NC*

William (Edmiston)Edmondson b ca 1759 Augusta Co, Va* d 21 Oct 1847 or 14 Oct 1848 (both dates appear on wifes Rev. War Pension App.) +Elizabeth (or Mary) Suddereth (or Suddreth) b ca 1765 Virginia* d 1830-1840 Wilkes Co, NC* m ca 1780 Burke Co, NC*

Robert (Edmiston) Edmondson b 1783-85 Burke Co, North Carolina* d 5 Dec 1865 Fannin Co, Georgia +Nary Harris b ca 1796 Burke Co, North carolina* d ca 1867 Fannin Co, Georgia m 11 or 13 Jun 1813 Burke Co, North carolina*

Lewis Edmondson b 21 Mar 1816 Burke Co, North Carolina* d 29 Oct or 6 Nov 1896 Gilmer Co, Gilmer Co, Georgia +Frances Russell Rogers b 18 Oct 1827 Macon Co, North Carolina d 29 Oct 1893 Gilmer Co, Georgia m 30 Sept 1845 Union Co, Georga

George Cleveland Edmondson b 15 May 1852 Murray Co, Georgia d 2 Jun 1945 Cassville, Barry Co, Missouri +Martha Ann Hipp b 9 Nov 1859 Gilmer Co, Ga d 25 May 1936 Cassville, Barry Co, Missouri m 15 March 1876 Gilmer Co, Georgia

James Madison Edmondson b 25 Oct 1878 Alabama d 20 Oct 1966 Seneca, Newton Co, Missouri +Bertha Lee Plummer b 29 Mar 1882 Barton Co, Missouri d 1982 Maimi, Ottawa Co, Oklahoma m 29 Nov 1905

• As I'm sure you know, no western movement is indicated until my family reached Georgia. Someone in present day Burke Co, North Carolina would have been in the "Wilderness" until Orange Co, Virginia was created in 1734 with no western border. Orange County's western border is established in 1738 when Frederick and Augusta Counties are formed, with Augusta Countyhaving an open western border. Next comes Botecourt, then Fincastle, which is divided into Kentucky, Montgomery, and Washington counties in 1776. Virginia continues expansion through what would be known as Eminent Domain. North Carolina may have applied the same theory to it's western borders, but doesn't seem to have been able to enforce the claim. It yields to The State of Franklin it's western border in 1785. That independent state that almost no one has heard of existed until 1790, just after the war. The lines on the map move, not necessarily the population. This doesn't apply to wills and documents with known landmarks, but birth, Marriage, and death records for Virginia counties are very confusing, and may not be for an area in present day Virginia at all. I hope this has been of some help, as this group has already helped me greatly.--Dave E 03:49, 8 December 2009 (EST)

FYI- I'm just curious, and haven't had a chance to check this with other male Edmondsons. My name is David Edmondson and my g grandfather is James Madison Edmondson. In my line males are color blind, but skipping generations. I'm not color blind, but may father is. My grandfather was not but g grandfather was. My brother is not, but his son is. Another nephew, my sister's son also is. I'm just curious how far up the tree (and back down again) this goes. If this trait was inherited from an ancestor prior to William (9), and my lineage is correct, William (9) would have been color blind. This trait should have inherited through both male and female descendants, though only males in every other generation would have issues with color perception. While this has been observed by my family this pattern of inherited vision traits is widely known and was only recognized by family until after we were informed of the condition. If you are researching descendants of this line where there are known vision issues in this pattern it can help in establishing and confirming the proper generations in even and odd numbers from a given point.

Q 07:32, 10 December 2009 (EST)

Some data [10 December 2009]

19 March 1747

Benjamin Borden to Col. John Buchanan. Testator agreed to sell in his lifetime to John Buchanan, £ 3, 100 acres, part of 92,100 acres beginning on the creek, corner to John Edmiston.6 This land went later to Samuel Buchanan: 20 May 1756. John Buchanan, Gent., late of Reed Creek to Samuel Buchanan, 393 acres, corner to John Edmondson on Moffett's Creek. This Buchanan family and the Edmistons were closely involved with each other from then on.

Need Source Q 07:32, 10 December 2009 (EST)

6 Apr. 1749== Augusta Co., WB I, 241. 6 Apr. 1749. Will of Robert Edmiston, pr. 22 May 1750. Witnesses are John Edmiston and Samuel Buchanan. Buchanan proves the will on 22 May, but Edmiston is summonsed to appear at the next court.

Need Source Q 07:32, 10 December 2009 (EST)

In the 1740's

In the 1740's, there seems to have been at least one other John Edmiston in Augusta County, probably the son of David "Turk" Edmiston, who originally lived on land in the Beverly Manor, some miles north of the Borden tract. David died in 1751. By that time, his son James was already on land further south, and the entire family seems to have moved there. It is virtually impossible to be certain which John is which in some of the entries.

For example: 21 May 1747. John Edmondson given leave to build a mill. This could be either John, and we originally thought it was this John. However, evidence has emerged showing that the David Edmiston family had one or more mills in this area later on, whereas our John is never referred to as a miller. Therefore, we now think that the John who had the mill was the son of David, (Notes given to me by Howard Valance Jones)--Q 19:48, 17 February 2009 (EST)

Talbot County MD [22 November 2011]

Allison 1960 makes some observations about the Edmiston's from Cecil County perhaps having come to that area from Talbot County. She does not offer any evidence to support this other than point to an Archibald Edmiston who was in Talbot County in the 17th Century. The only connection for her seems to have been the fact that Archibald shared the surname.

However, if that's the case, then there are a several other Maryland Counties that could be equally identified as being the place of origin of the Cecil County Edmiston's.--for there are land records in several of them showing that Edmistons were there at an early date. On the otherhand we know that there was a substantial influx of Scot Irish into what's now Cecil County beginning in the early 18th century. My personal guess is that this line was among those immigrants, and came there either from Ireland or conceivably Scotland.) But that's just guessing. It seems, however, more plausible than coming from Talbot County. Q 13:04, 18 February 2009 (EST)</font>

You may not believe this, many don't. But many do. We should definitely keep looking. But keep in mind that we may be looking for a man who was born, died, and possibly was married and in Ireland, not America, and may have been disowned by his family in Ireland. People have been looking for him for a very long time.--Dave E 22:05, 9 December 2009 (EST)

Insert of Howards data [22 February 2009]

I think in genealogy we are always standing on the shoulders of those that came before us, and its important to acknowledge their contributions. In that vein I've put the bulk of Howards very useful information into the Digital Library, and linked back to it from the "Source Box" at the top of the page. While its not impossible to change something in the Digital library, it requires operator intercession to do so, so the DL makes a fairly secure location to place something like this. The only thing I've done with his original material is to elide the narrative where he quoted a posting on the Rootsweb mailing list. That material is copyrighted, so its a problem quoting it so completely. I'll occassionally quote something like this when I think there's particularly good information there, but I always do that with the intent of incorporating the concepts and information into the articles narrative, and acknowleding the original source of the information in a footnote, or whatever. In this particular instance the narrative provided no especially useful information--the thing Howard was pointing to was the list of communicants---which had been taken from a Morton's History of Rockbridge County, a work now out of copyright. Since Morton is out of copyright, there's no infringement in using the list, (just with using the authors narrative)---especially since it's been extracted and presented in a number of places. So I elided the narrative and left the list intact.

That said, I think we've met the intent of Howards desire to preserve his rights to his own work, while permitting us to use that work here on WeRelate. What I'd like to propose is that we use Howards write-up as the core of the narrative in the overview section, and insert any additional material that's come to hand either parenthetically, as footnotes, or in some other way that distinguishes between what Howard has written and what we have written. The idea is to build on what Howard has done, but still be able to weave a consistent storyline that includes other infomation that's come to hand.

One of the points Howard makes is that he believes it likely that John died in Rockbridge. Given Andrew Edmiston's letter in which he traces the family migration, I think a slightly different tale can be told. Howard notes a flurry of activity around 1765, in which John and Margaret dispose of much (probably not all) of their property. I've noticed that as well. What I think this signals is preparation for the family to move on---first to Grayson County, then to Southwest Virginia. We don't know for sure what happened to John, but its obvious Margaret made it to Southwest Virginia (Ebbing Springs Call). Perhaps John did as well dying say 1771-1773. The fact that Margaret is functioning as head of household suggests that the household was still intact when the family established themselves on the Holston---ie, John was still alive. I think if John had died before the move, and Margaret went with her sons to SW VA, she would NOT have re-established herself in an independent household, but would have lived with one of them---hence she would not have signed the Ebbing Springs Call.)

The above doesn't prove anything, but its a storyline consistent with the data available. Possibly John died in Rockbridge, possibly in Grayson County, but more likely in SW VA. Additional data may come to hand to help us judge this. In that regard, something that we don't have much on is the family stay in Grayson County. We know from Andrews letter that they settled briefly on the New River, stayed a short while, and moved on. Here I can point to others in the Ebbing Springs Congregation that did pretty much the same thing---George Teater, for example. In George's case we know quite precisely where he was living in the period just prior to 1770. Since he ended up in the same community as the Edmiston's in southwest Virginia, perhaps they were living nearby on the New River. Just speculation, but we could use additional data on the New River stay. Q 09:29, 22 February 2009 (EST)