Person talk:James Montgomery (16)

Discussion on Person Page [29 November 2013]

Could we please move the "discussion" that is taking place on the Person Page of James Montgomery to the Talk Page where it belongs? Would appreciate it if someone could "clean-up" his Person Page, which is currently cluttered with conversation.... We've tried to keep the Person Pages for Records, Sources, Documentation, Images, Maps, etc...

Thanks:)

Jim--Delijim 20:54, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm working around these families today, so I'll move the text over. See below. --Cos1776 19:54, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Discussion below moved from Person Page [7 Dec 2015]

re: "Note: this land coincides with the deposition of James Montgomery, Jr., listed below. This same 654 acres on Cataba Creek was acquired 17 days later by Robert Montgomery, James Montgomery's son."

13 Nov 2011 - User:Papapi writes: (this is debatable, contrary to the published accounts. This Robert might have been James's brother:

re: Note: James Montgomery apparently died intestate.

13 Nov 2011 - User:Papapi writes: Note: This James Montgomery, who lived a few miles west of Fincastle, has been confused with James Montgomery who lived on the Jackson River more than thirty miles north of Fincastle. There is reason to believe this James Montgomery was NOT the James killed in the Indian attack on the Jackson River in 1756, contrary to most published accounts.

5 Mar 2012 - User:Quolla6 writes: However, the following record from 82 Chalkley's Chronicles tells us that by 19 Aug 1758, Ann, widow of James Montgomerie, has removed out of the County. Presumably this Ann is the Ann Thompson who married James Montgomery. Perhaps there are two Ann Thompsons married to two different James Montgomeries, or perhaps the one who lived near Fincastle is not married to Ann Thompson. Q 13:13, 5 March 2012 (EST)

27 Nov 2013 - User:Papapi writes: Why should this be presumed? None of the people associated with the settlement of James Mountgomery's estate of 1756-1757 lived anywhere near Catawba Creek, a tributary of the James River. All the people mentioned in the estate settlement lived at what is today Lexington Virginia, in lands commonly known as the Beverley Manor and the Upper Borden Tract (present day Rockbridge County, Virginia). The estate settlement mentions James Simpson (lived on Jackson River), John Dickinson (lived on Jackson River), Francis McKowan (lived in Beverley Manor), John McKowan (lived in Beverley Manor), Jacob Anderson (lived in Beverley Manor), Jno. Buntin (lived in Beverley Manor). All these people lived miles and miles away from the confirmed location of James Montgomery, who lived three miles west of Fincastle.

Page 176.--19th November, 1756. Ann Mountgomery's bond (with John Dickinson and James Simpson) as administratrix of James Simpson [Mountgomery;transcription error]

Page 183.--16th March, 1757. James Mountgomery's appraisement, by Francis McKowan, John McKowan, Jacob Anderson, Jno. Buntin.

[cont from User:Papapi above] This story simply does not conform to logic. The James Mountgomery killed by Indians in 1756 on the Jackson River was the James Mountgomery who owned lands in the Beverley Manor and on the Jackson River above present day Covington, Virginia. p 12:18 27 November 2013 (EST)

27 Nov 2013 User:Quolla6 writes: Perhaps. We're all just trying to find the right answers, supported by facts. But perhaps its your logic that's in error. See above. By the way, I liked your map additions. Those are always useful. Unfortunately they are Google maps, and the terms of use for Google maps pretty much prevent their use on WeRelate. If you use the GNIS system (USGS) for mapping, you'll no longer get a link to a Google map. That's probably because of the terms of use of Google Maps, and USGS removed them, as they have others in the past that made it difficult to use US Government product. There are, however, links to ESRI map's that don't seem to have those onerous terms of use attached. So I think we can use those freely. Q 12:45, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

[cont from User:Papapi above] If James Montgomery of Catawba Creek near Fincastle had a living spouse named Ann, then why did she not release her dower rights on the 654 acres when it was sold by James Montgomery in 1751, then immediately purchased by Robert Montgomery the following day? Virginia required the spouse's release of this right, yet no record is found in the Augusta County, Virginia records of an examination of the spouse or the release of her dower rights.

27 Nov 2013 User:Quolla6 writes: Also, if there were dower rights attached, how do you know that they weren't released by his wife? Court records, especially if you are drawing from Chalkley's version, are not necessarily complete, and depending on the circumstances, a court interview concerning dower might or might not have occurred. How do you know this particular parcel was the one to which dower rights were attached? Not all land a man owned had dower rights to the wife.

re: Page 176.--19th November, 1756. Ann Mountgomery's bond (with John Dickinson and James Simpson) as administratrix of James Simpson [Mountgomery;transcription error]

27 Nov 2013 User:Quolla6 writes: How do you know this is a transcription error? Because it doesn't conform with the presumption that Ann Montgomery was the wife of James Montgomery? If the original document said "MOntgomery" that's one thing, and this would be a transcription error. If, on the other hand, it said "Simpson", your emendation would be in error. Have you looked at the original document?

Some of the given information is not correct [18 January 2023]

If we as researchers are to believe the 1797 depositions given before the Chancery court in Wythe Co. Va. by James Montgomery Jr. aged 68 and his brother Joseph Montgomery aged 64 where they say that they lived on their brothers land for 20 odd years then we must also believe that they never owned any other lands on or near Catawba Creek until after about 1771. (Robert purchased the 654 acres in May 1751 from the Borden Heirs)

If the depositions are true, then we also must believe that the James Montgomery that purchased the 80 acres that adjoined the lands of Thomas Hadley was the same that first purchased the 654 acres on Catawba Creek from Benjamin Borden Sr. in 1742. (Augusta County, Virginia: Survey Record Book I. Dated: 1 May 1754: 80 acres adjoining Thomas Hadley. Wm Preston County Surveyor, Thomas Lewis Asst. County Surveyor.

This Thomas Hadley owned lands on Catawba Creek.

Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia, Vol I Lymon Chalkley

Augusta Co. Va. Court Records Order Book No. XI. page 138 (239) August 21, 1767 Surveyors of highways appointed: Patrick Shirley and Wm. Watkins from James Montgomery's at Catawba Creek to the side of Craigs Creek Mountain where John Pott's quit clearing

This Patrick Shirley was most likely the same AKA Patrick Sharkey.

Chronicles of the Scoth-Irish Settlement in Virginia Lymon Chalkley

Augusta Co. Va. Court Records Order Book No. XII. (143) May 19, 1768 James Robinson, Hugh Crockett and Phillip Love--to view a road from James Montgomery's to the Old County Line leading from Catawba to the New River.

To this researcher it sounds as if James Montgomery Sr. was still alive and living on Catawba Creek in 1768.--Michael Shuman 06:16, 18 January 2023 (UTC)