Person talk:Frances Whitmore (1)

birth date [4 June 2011]

According to the Cambridge Vital Records, the Francis that was born on 3 Mar 1671 to Francis Whitmore and his second wife Margaret was a son. By his first wife Isabell, there is a birth of a daughter Frances in "---, 1650". --Jrich 10:14, 4 June 2011 (EDT)

NEHGR, p. 9:134 has will of Francis Whitmore of Cambridge dated 8 Oct 1685 when the Franc[e/i]s b. 1671 would have been 14. It mentions his wife, to bring up three youngest children, "two youngest sons Thomas and Joseph", "son Samuel", "eldest son Francis", "grandchildren of Daniel Markham which he had by my daughter Elizabeth". To be eldest son, one would assume that is the "Frances" b. 1650, unless, since most of the children named in the will come from the second marriage, he means eldest son of his second wife(but that seems unlikely as he gave no land to Francis in the will, only money, and one would expect a minor son Francis to be treated like Thomas and Joseph). There is no birth records for youngest sons Thomas and Joseph, and Cambridge VRs also give the birth of a Hannah in 1668 who was of his second wife and would have been under age, so who the three youngest children are is indeterminate. He does not mention a daughter Frances, but he also does not mention his daughter Margery from the first marriage who was alive at the time, or even his son John by his first marriage. This is not all that helpful, but it is frustrating that all the secondary sources seem to parrot W. H. Whitmore, who never seems to explain how he knows what he asserts, including that son Francis went to Middletown, CT and daughter Frances m. Jonathan Thompson. --Jrich 11:50, 4 June 2011 (EDT)

Whitmore Surname Project has some good some not, contains the following: HISTORY of CAMBRIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS 1630-1877 page 797 Whitmore, Francis, (Fra.) b. 12 Oct. 1650, [m. Hannah Harris (Wm.) 8 Feb. 1674, d. Middletown, Conn., 9 Sept. 1700, H. L.] 684

Pane Joyce site has many source citations at: http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/gen/report/rr09/rr09_097.htm--Scot 15:47, 4 June 2011 (EDT)

Unless I am missing something, all are secondary sources. For example the 1907 Purdy book justs lists children and gives virtually no detail (this is most of what the Pane Joyce footnotes cite). The introduction of Purdy book says they verified all dates with town clerks and only relied on Bible records when there was no other source. But since it isn't identified which dates are the verified ones and which aren't, you don't know which to believe and which might need more confirmation. For example, he shows the older Francis b. 12 Oct 1650 when the published VRs say only ---, 1650. He shows daughter Margaret b. 1668 when the published VRs say Hannah was b. 1668. Either he or the published VRs is not an accurate representation of the records.

We all know published VRs can be wrong. I am pretty much willing to accept this for the two Frances/Francis entries just based on the eldest son remark in the will. The front on one line interchanged with the front of the next line, etc., etc. But I would expect some comment in sources about the apparent switching of Francis and Frances, or that there are two copies of the original records and one is right and the other has errors. Surely, somebody has tried to verify this stuff, and run into this same discrepancy.

If there was a marriage for Frances and Jonathan Thompson, it wouldn't be a problem accepting that the son born in 1671 should have been recorded as a girl, but there isn't, the marriage date given is an estimate based on birth of a child (and makes her not yet of legal age, though with her father d. 1685 perhaps she felt under some pressure to get married). How was the maiden name proved? If she was named in her father's will, that too would be helpful, but she's not mentioned.

If there was a marriage record for Francis in Cambridge to Hannah Harris I would feel better about this guy in Middletown being from Cambridge, but it's in Middletown apparently, so how is the connection to Cambridge known? After all there was a Whitmore family of Middletown, as all the DNA articles let us know. How is it known that in the midst of this foreign Whitmore family, that this one particular Whitmore is known to be from Cambridge? If there was a deed where one of the various Whitmores identified another as father or son or daughter or sister or brother, but I haven't found one mentioned or excerpted.

It's not just one source that seems lacking this detail, but in all the sources I have seen. I am sure I have just missed the source, but right now, it seems a little bizarre.

By the way Paige's History of Cambridge doesn't say what was posted. Don't know if it was a different History of Cambridge the remark referred came from, but don't really think I care either, as there is no sign that it tells how it knows all this. It probably just copied it from W. H. Whitmore or Purdy. [Amendment: Just noticed the 684 at the end. Paige on p. 684 does say "Francis, b. 12 Oct. 1650, living in 1691". I don't know what page 797 refers to, as there aren't that many pages in the book, and the other stuff about marrying Hannah Harris and dying in Middletown is simply not there, apparently added by the website owner but not based on Paige.] --Jrich 19:52, 4 June 2011 (EDT)