Person:Joseph Sands (5)

Watchers
Joseph Sands
d.14 OCT 1822 , , Pennsylvania, USA
m. ABT 1774
  1. Joseph Sands1775 - 1822
  2. Catharine SandsAbt 1777 -
  3. Hannah SandsAbt 1777 -
  4. Aaron Sands1778 - 1854
  5. Sarah SandsAbt 1779 -
  6. Nathan SandsAbt 1783 - 1872
  7. John Sands1788 - 1858
  8. Elizabeth Sands1796 -
Facts and Events
Name Joseph Sands
Gender Male
Birth? 16 JUL 1775 of Roxborough, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Death? 14 OCT 1822 , , Pennsylvania, USA
Burial? Old Burial Ground, Emanuel Lutheran Church, Pottstown, , Pennsylvania
Other? Notes

!BIRTH-MAR-DEATH: Noterized Statement of Horace A. Sands; in possession of Robert E. Givens, Clovis, CA. History of Columbia and Montour Counties; by Battle; (1887); p. 519. Prominent Families of the USA; by Burke. Levering Family Genealogy Genealogy of the Sands; by Ellen L. Sands; p. 11. Malcolm Sands Wilson book; p. 20. Will of Daniel Sands; Berks County Courthouse. Source: correspondence with "Betty Burdan" <bjburdan@dejazzd.com>, Feb. 2006 Tim and Bob,Speculating that the 1800 Colebrookdale Joseph and the 1810, 1820 Pottsgrove Joseph are the same person, and that his wife was in fact Elisabeth Schoener, I have worked out a suggested list of children for the couple. In addition to Ephraims's headstone stating he is the son of Joseph and Elisabeth we had one other child, Elisabeth d/o Joseph and Elisabeth, b. 1802 baptized at New Hanover Luthern. Check me out carefully on this as for the most part, my math skills are not outstanding. I tried to be methodical and compare who should have been in the household in the next census. We would be looking for at least 6 children born between 1800 and 1820, and a possible 2 more born between 1820 and 1823. 1800 Colebrookdale Twp., Berks Co., PA Roll 35, p. 582Joseph Sands, 2 males 0-10, 1 male 16-26, 1 female 16-26Age in 1810Joseph Sands 16-26, b. 1774 1784 26 -46 1 female 16 - 26, b. 1774 1784 26 -46 1 male 0 - 10, b. 1790 1800 10 -201 male 0 - 10, b. 1790 1800 10 - 20 This appears to be a young married couple with two sons.1810 Pottsgrove Twp., Montgomery Co., PA Roll 52, p. 1198Joseph Sands 3 males 0-10, 1 male 10-16, 1 male 26-44; 1 female 0-10, 1 female 26-44Age in 1820Joseph Sands, 26-44, b. 1866 - 1784 36 -54 1 female, 26-44, b. 1866 1784 36 -541 male 10-16, b. 1794 1800 20 -36 1 male 0-10, b. 1800 1810 10 -20 1 female 0-10, b. 1800 1810 (new) 10 - 20 1 male 0-10, b. 1800 1810 (new) 10 - 20If this is the same family then the children have increased by 1 son and 1 daughter, although it might have increased by 2 sons, if one of the oldest sons was out of the household. I believe 2 children were born between 1800 and 1810, 1 male and 1 female 1820 Pottsgrove Twp., Montgomery Co., PA Roll 100 p. 114Joseph Sands | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 || 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 ||2 males age 0- 10, 1 male age 10-16, 1 male 16-18, 1 male over 451 female 16-18, 1 female over 45Note: the Pottgrove census columns were not divided as age ranges their columns for male and female were:| 10 | 16 | 18 | 26 | 45 | up || We can assume they should be what the other census columns were, but I’m not certain what they meant. Age in 1830Joseph Sands, over 45 b. 1775 or before over 551 female over 45, b. 1775 or before over 551 male 16-18 b. 1802 1804 26 38 1 female 16-18 b. 1802 1804 26 38 1 male 10-16, b. 1804 1810 20 26 1 male 0-10, b. 1810 1820 (new) 10 20 1 male 0-10, b. 1810 1820 (new) 10 20 Old Burying Ground, Pottstown, Montgomery Co., PAJoseph Sands, Esq. (b. Jan. 16, 1775 d. Oct. 14, 1822)If this is the same family then at least one of the oldest sons, who should be at least 30 was out of the household. There are now 2 more children for a grand total of 6 children born to this couple, 5 in the household and 1 out of the household. Two sons were born between 1810 and 1820.If this is the same Joseph (b. 1775 d. Oct. 1822) who is buried at the Old Burying Ground, then time would permit the possibility of 2 more children. I would suggest that if this is the correct Joseph and Elizabeth then they had 6 children, and could have had as many as 8 children. The family might look like this:Joseph Sands and Spouse over 45 years1 son b. 1790 1800 1 son b. 1790 1800 1 daughter b. 1800 18101 son b. 1800 18101 son b. 1810 18201 son b. 1810 18201 child b. 1820 1823 possible1 child b. 1820 1823 possibleI have found only one baptism for a child of a Joseph and Elisabeth at New Hanover Lutheran Church, New Hanover Twp., Montgomery Co., PA and this Elisabeth would fit the time frame of the one daughter born to the 1800, 1820, 1820 census, who was born between 1800 and 1810 according to the 1810 census and between 1802 and 1804 according to the 1820 census.Elisabeth Senz (b. Nov. 6, 1802 BP. Jan. 1, 1803) d/o Joseph & Elisabeth SenzSp: Elisabeth widow of Christoph SchoenerElizabeth appeared in her own household in 18301830 Colebrookdale Twp., Berks Co., PA Roll 143 p. 462Elizabeth Sand (wide), 1 female age 50-60, 1 female age 60-70In 1840 I think she is the elderly female in the Ephraim Sands household.1840 Colebrookdale Twp., Berks Co., PA Roll, Roll 438 p. 334Ephraim Sands, 1 male 0-5, 1 male 5-10, 4 males 20-301 female 0-5, 1 female 5-10, 1 female 15-20, 1 female 20-30, 1 female 60-701850 Colebrookdale Twp., Berks Co., PA Roll 754 p. 325Elizabeth Sands 70James Sands 71860 Colebrookdale Twp., Berks Co., PA Roll 1073 p. 156359 / 413 John Brower, 24, carpenterEmelina Brower, 24Eleanore Brower, 2Clara Brower, 6 months259 / 414 Elizabeth Sens, 83,Fairview Cemetery, Boyertown, Berks Co., PASection B-4 Row 18Elizabeth b/o Joseph Sands d/o Christopher & Elizabeth Shaner (b. May 15, 1778 d. Dec. 14, 1867) age 89 R. 6 MOS. 29 daysElizabeth is buried next to her brother at Fairview, while her parents are buried at the Old Burying Ground where Joseph Sands (1775-1822) is buried.Section B-4 Row 19 …..[ buried with Elizabeth Sands identifies mother’s maiden name as Groff ]Christian Schoner S/o Christopher Schoner & Elisabeth (nee Groff) (b. Oct. 25, 1772 d. Jan. 7, 1848) age 77-2-12. Married Maria d/o Jonathan Roth on Oct. 29, 1797, married 50 years 2 months 8 days, begat 2 sons, 3 daughters. Two sons died before Chtistian.Old Burying Ground, Pottstown, Montgomery Co., PAChristoph Schoener (b. March 19, 1745 d. Apil 25, 1802) b/o Eliz. Grafin, begat 9 children, 7 living in 1802)Elizabeth Schoner (nee Grafin) wife of Christopher (b. Aug. 31, 1746 d. July 20, 1826) wife of ChristopherThe EndBetty SOURCE: From research of Tim Sands in email 2-2006 - Establishing the identities of his parents, Joseph and Elizabeth Sands, is where the lineage begins to become hazy, because we are having difficulty locating historical records for the family. But, we do have information which is helping to locate the trail.There is a cemetery record for Fairview Cemetery, Boyertown, Berks, PA for:- Elizabeth, w/o Joseph Sands, d/o Christopher & Elizabeth Shaner, b. 15 May 1778, d. 14 Dec 1867, 89-6-29[buried next to Elizabeth is a brother Christian Schoener, b. 25 Oct 1772, d. 7 Jan 1848, which identifies the mother's maiden name as, nee Groff]Next we'll move to the Emmanuel Lutheran Church, Pottstown, Mont Co, PA records:- Elisabeth Schoner, b. 25 May 1778, bpt 5 Jul 1778, d/o Christopher & Elisabeth Schoner, sp. Johanes Shoner & Anna Maria [ This birth date, is off from the tombstone by 10 days, but I've encountered this type of "date drift" before, and feel pretty confidant this is the baptism record for the Elizabeth Sands, interred at Fairview Cemetery.]Also, appearing in New Hanover Lutheran Church, New Hanover Twp, Mont Co, PA:- Christian Schoener, b. 25 Oct 1772, bpt 10 Jan 1773, s/o Christopher & Elizabeth Schoener, sp. William Kebner and wifeThe above suggests that Elizabeth Schoener, and her family lived in that area, and she married Joseph Sands.Next, I would like to move to the census records. I'm going to be brief, but Betty can provide detailed analysis of what I'm talking about, and please Betty, I'm running on memory here, so if I type something incorrect, please correct it.Anyway:There are Federal Census records for a Joseph Sands in Colebrookdale in 1800, Pottsgrove Twp in 1810 and 1820, then in Colebrookdale again in 1830. At first blush, it would appear that all records appear to be for the same household, and as Betty can explain (Colebrookdale and Pottsgrove Twps adjoin one another) in that era it is not inconceivable that these might have been the same home, only picked up by different census takers when recorded; but of course that is just speculation. However, when examining the age demographics in the household it becomes evident that unless a gross error was made in the 1830 census, that household is a different Joseph Sands, from 1800 to 1820. If you are interested in the details, Betty can provide the analysis she did which clearly supports this conclusion. Hence, we have one Joseph Sands family, in 1800 to 1820, and a different household appearing in 1830. Also beginning in 1830, a single Elizabeth Sands also appears with a household in Colebrookdale. This census information is very significant because it leads to the next cemetery record.Old Pottstown Burying Ground (next to the Emmanuel Lutheran Church)Joseph Sands, Esq., b. 16 Jan 1775, d. 14 Oct 1822This information is what led me to contact you, since Malcolm Sands Wilson's book indicates a DOB of 16 Jul 1775,and a DOD of 14 Oct 1822. Unfortunately, as you've indicated, the work does not provide his source. Also, I don't think he obtained the information from the cemetery record, because there are other Sands family members there, which have not had this data included with them, even tho' they are buried in the same cemetery.So, the census records suggest that there was a Joseph Sands living in Colebrookdale/Pottsgrove area 1800 to 1820, and the family no longer appears in the census, but an Elizabeth Sands appears in the census in 1830. The cemetery records indicate that Joseph died in 1822, which would make the spouse a widow. One may question Joseph and Elizabeth are buried in different cemeteries, but Betty explained that the Old Burying Ground, in Pottstown was no longer in use when Elizabeth died in 1867, which would have necessitated that she be interred elsewhere. SOURCE: From Tim Sands (tsands@epix.net) to Betty Burdan - With new information on a marriage date for Joseph Sands and Elisabeth (Schoener / Schaner / Shaner) I took another look at their 1800, 1810 and 1820 census. I realized that I made an error in my former assessment of what they might mean. When I did my count of possible children, I forgot to account for older children who might be missing from the 1810 and 1820 census. On re-thinking it I see that by 1810 at least one of the older males was out and possibly the second one as well. By 1820 both of the older males were for sure out of the household. This adjusts my estimated number of children by at least 1. Giving me an estimate of at least 7 children born to Joseph and Elisabeth. Add to that the possible births that may have taken place after the 1820 census and there may be as many as 9, if not ten, depending on whether the first son in the 1810 census was the same as one of the sons who appeared on the 1800 census.Marriages of the St. Paul's ChurchAmityville, Amity Township, Berks Co., PennsylvaniaAlso called Amity ChurchBy Rev. IngoldSens, Joseph, Elizabeth Schoner 31 Jul 17951800 Colebrookdale Twp., Berks Co., PA Roll 35, p. 582Joseph Sands, 2 males 0-10, 1 male 16-26, 1 female 16-261800 Family Joseph Sands 16-26, b. 1774 1784 1 female 16 - 26, b. 1774 17841) 1 male 0 - 10, b. 1790 1800 [born after marriage in 1795] 2) 1 male 0 10, b. 1790 1800 [born after marriage 1795]1810 Pottsgrove Twp., Montgomery Co., PA Roll 52, p. 1198Joseph Sands 3 males 0-10, 1 male 10-16, 1 male 26-44; 1 female 0-10, 1 female 26-441810 Family Joseph Sands, 26-44, b. 1866 - 1784 1 female, 26-44, b. 1866 1784 1) 1 male missing here b. 1795-18002) 1 male 10-16, b. 1795 1800 [possibly older male who appeared on 1800 census] 3) 1 male 0-10, b. 1800 1810 [could be male who appeared on 1800 census b. 1790-1800] 4) 1 female 0-10, b. 1800 1810 (new) 5) 1 male 0-10, b. 1800 1810 (new) 1820 Pottsgrove Twp., Montgomery Co., PA Roll 100 p. 114Joseph Sands | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 || 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 ||2 males age 0- 10, 1 male age 10-16, 1 male 16-18, 1 male over 451 female 16-18, 1 female over 451820 FamilyJoseph Sands 45+Elizabeth Sands 45+1) male b. 1795-1800 missing here would be 20-25 years old2) male b. 1795-1800 missing here would be 20-25 years old3) 1 male 16-18 b. 1802-1804 [appeared on 1800 as b. 1800-1810] 4) 1 female 16-18 b. 1802-1804 [appeared on 1800 as b. 1800-1810]5) 1 male 10-16 b. 1804-1810 [new child b. 1810 or after not on 1810 census]6) 1 male 0-10 b. 1810-1820 [new child b. 1810-1820 not on 1810 census]7) 1 male 0-10 b. 1810-1820 [new child b. 1810-1820 not on 1810 census]8) possible child born 1820-18229) possible child born 1820-1822Joseph and Elisabeth Sands must have had 7 children, with a possible 9 if two more were born between 1820 to 1822 when Joseph died. Conclusion is we should be looking for 7 children of Jospeh and Elisabeth, 6 sons and 1 daughter, all born between 1795 and 1822 or even 1823I hope I was able to make this understandable....it sure took some serious thinking to come up with this updated version. Betty SOURCE: Email from Tim Sands (tsands@epix.net) 3-2007 - Anyway, I've been puzzling over Joseph's dates of birth and death, since our early conversations, last year.Particularly how Wilson obtained the DOB and DOD for Joseph Sands, in his work. It appeared that he had obatined his dates from the headstone reading, for Joseph Sands, at the Old Burying Ground, in Pottstown, PA. The DOD agreed with the headstone reading for the Joseph Sands, at the Old Burying Ground, in Pottstown, as 14 Oct 1822. However, his DOB for Joseph did not agree. Wilson's work listed it as b. 16 Jul 1775, when the headstone reading indicated a DOB of 16 Jan 1775. However, both the headstone, and Wilson's work were in agreement except for the month of birth. So, if Wilson had used the headstone reading for the data, why did the month of birth differ in his work, from the actual headstone reading ?(After discussing birthdate problems for the father Daniel) This same problem also appeared with the DOB for Joseph Sands. Wilson's work listed it as 16 Jul 1775, and the headstone reading listed it as 16 Jan 1775.In other words, this "mix up" of the month of Jul and Jan occurs at both places in Wilson's work, i.e. with the date Daniel's will was proved, and with the month of Joseph's birth. That doesn't appear to be coincidential, and is almost certainly a transcription error that arose when his original notes were transcribed. Personally, I can't think of another logical scenario that would fit the circumstances.While I'm beginning to suspect that a baptismal record will probably never surface for Joseph, there is a significant amount of circumstantial data that supports that the Joseph Sands, buried at the OBG, in Pottstown, was the son of Daniel Sands. I also think that Wilson had also arrived at the same conclusion, during his research, and probably utilized the headstone information for Joseph Sands, Esq., for his birth and death dates. Here are a few other items:- Daniel's will clearly indicates he had a son Joseph, and this son was of age, and responsible enough to be a co-executer for his father's estate. This Joseph, born in 1775, would have been of the correct age to function in that capacity.- The Joseph buried at OBG was clearly a responsible person, because he was elected, and served as a Justice of the Peace, from 1817, until his death in 1822.- That this was the same Joseph, who served as JP, and was married to Elizabeth Shoener, is a given, because his estate papers include a receivable due for his JP work. Joseph died intestate in Oct 1822, and papers were filed with the Orphan’s court, for his estate, in Aug 1823.- Daniel’s will is written with an address of Amity, Twp, however the papers were filed as Colebrookdale Twp. Joseph was living in Colebrookdale Twp, at the time of Daniel’s death, and he was probably the person who filed Daniel’s will.- Joseph was buried in the same cemetery as his mother and father-in-law. His spouse was buried in Fairview cemetery, with her brother’s family, almost certainly because the OBG, in Pottstown, had fallen into disuse by the time of her death (as well as her brother’s family) because the cemetery was full. The OBG cemetery was actually removed in the early 1900s.- Baptismal records suggest that Joseph and Elizabeth were interacting with the family of his uncle Samuel Sands.- One of his sons was named "Daniel" and another was named “Enoch”. Enoch is not a name that appears in the naming patterns of the Sands family. However, oddly, “Enoch” is a name that does appear in the Levering family lineage. (I don’t think that is a coincidence, either.)Hope you find this to be interesting, because I personally think your ancestral grandfather, John Sands, and the Joseph Sands buried at the Old Burying Ground, were brothers.Best regards,-Tim

_FSFTID: KNH5-H1B