MySource:Samples 59/Personal Interview with Lawrence Monroe Hogue

Oral Interview of Lawrence Monroe Hogue

• Personal Interview of Lawrence Monroe Hogue by his son Patrick Lawrence Hogue on (1 Dec 1985).

My father Lawrence Monroe Hogue and I visited aunt Sybil Aline (Hogue) Andrews at her home in Sacramento, California on December 1, 1985. Sybil told me that she had received the information on the Hogue’s and the story of A. D. Hogue’s sod house that our great-grandfather James Monroe Hogue once lived in. Aline said her sister Gertha Lorene (Hogue) Gilbert called via telephone and advised her that she had not received the story of the sod house and wanted to have a copy. Aline told me she had made a copy of this story and mailed one copy to Lorene and another to her own daughter Martha, in Virginia.

While visiting Aunt Sybil, Martha called via telephone from Virginia and said that she had received the information and appreciated it very much. Martha invited our family to come back to Virginia anytime to visit and she would show us around the early settlements in our country, stating that the capital, archives, Smithsonian, was all back there waiting to be seen and used. Martha has a son around the age of 19 that is attending the Valley Forge Military School. His name is David Bruce Jr. Martha described the school as being a two year community college, only it is a military oriented school. Martha said David Bruce Jr. had no plan to continue a military career afterward. Sybil showed me pictures of David Bruce Jr. in his military dress uniform. The uniform was neatly pressed, tailored, with gold buttons extending vertically from the neck to the waistline and were brightly polished. He wore black patent leather shoes and a military cap placed three-fingers-width above the bridge of the nose. David Bruce Jr’s. uniform was grey in color, with red trim. Picture’s of him, showed him standing next to an old cannon. Martha told me over the phone that David Bruce Jr. is now around the height of 6’ 1”. This was hard for me to imagine because it seemed like only yesterday that I saw him as a child. He was five years old at that time.

Sybil said that Gertha told her about where she (Sybil) had been born. It was in a half-sod house, half-Clapboard house. The sod portion of the house was the kitchen area and lower than the living room area of the house.

Sybil remembers her father Oscar Samuel Hogue having a fiddle that he kept underneath his bed. Oscar would often bring it out and play it. Sybil thinks the fiddle probably was dropped one time, breaking into many pieces too small to have repaired.

My father and Sybil reminisced about the Hogue family living on Roly Canard’s place, or “Roly’s Place”. They said Oscar Samuel Hogue was a good farmer and shared-farmed on Roly’s property for a living. Share-farming was farming the land of another and sharing the crop produced from it. Roly Canard was full blooded Creek Indian, and was principal chief of the Creek tribe, and pastor of the outside church near Wetumpka, Oklahoma. My sister, Suzanne Pearl Hogue and I saw this outside church. The outside church had wooden benches for the people to sit. Sybil and dad remember there were some good gatherings there. Dad said they use to line up the tables and benches end to end. There would be every kind of food you could think of on top of these tables.

Sybil and dad remember one time, while living on Roly’s place, an Indian walked into the house they were living in and hugged the heater stove to keep warm because it was freezing cold outside. The Indian never spoke a word and after warming himself, walked out and they never saw him again. Dad and Sybil laughed, saying they would never forget that Indian.

There was a barn on Roly’s place and the Hogue’s kept a wooden storage chest in it. Inside the chest were many personal valuables being kept for sentimental purpose. Dad remembers his father Oscar going into the barn to get the Bible out of the chest. Oscar liked spending time in the barn reading the Bible. Sybil even kept her military service uniform in the chest. One day, during a storm, the barn was struck by a bolt of lightning. Uncle Homer Harold Hogue described the bolt of lightning hitting the barn, “It was so powerful, it tore through the roof, through the hay-loft, and made a hole in the concrete cement floor inside the barn, and boy was that loud”. As a result of this bolt of lighting, the barn caught fire and burned to the ground. The storage chest was completely burned and Sybil lost her military uniform. Dad, Sybil and Harold remember that they stayed in the cellar during this storm and that someone had to run into town to tell Oscar the barn caught fire. I asked dad if the fire-department responded. He said no, because the creek near Roly’s place had to be crossed before you could get to the barn, and it was muddy and flooded, making it impossible to cross without getting stuck. Dad said they didn’t even attempt responding to the fire.

Sybil and dad said it wasn’t long after the barn burned that, “Roly let dad (Oscar) go”. Sybil and dad questioned each other as to why Roly let their dad go. Both ruled that it wasn’t because Oscar was a bad farmer, because he was a very good farmer. Both later agreed that it must have been because Roly had lost a good mare and probably didn’t want to buy another one. The mare’s were needed to plow the fields.

Dad remembers Rollie always saw to the Hogue family while they lived on his property. “We never did without”. Dad remembers as a kid growing up on Roly’s place, he would rush home from school and pick potato bugs off the potatos for Roly and when finished, Roly would hand him a nickel. Dad said a nickel in those days was a lot to a kid.

Dad said that as a kid growing up there wasn’t the toys around that there are today and they had to make do with what they had, so they improvised. He remembers using pop and catsup bottles for horses. He called them “bottle horses”, and it was great if they could find the brown bottles because they made the best “brown horses”. Sybil remembers using corn cobs to make dolls and cutting out magazine paper to make clothes for the doll. She said it really was a big deal if you could find color glass to.

Oscar Samuel Hogue was a pretty fair wood carver. He would often sit in a chair with his back to the house or barn and “widdle” to pass the time away. Reaching at one of the wooden posts of the foundation to the building, he would cut a small piece, or sliver of wood, to carve out two small harnesses like the ones used on horses. Frank Dale Hogue enjoyed taking these small harnesses and put them over the necks of two cats. The harnesses were then linked together by string and those cats had a heck of a time getting loose. Another time Oscar carved a small six inch double bladed axe.

James Monroe Hogue once told Gertha Hogue to put her finger on top of the table because he was going to cut it off with the six inch double bladed axe. Gertha put her finger on top of the table and James struck her finger as if he were going to cut her finger off. The six inch double bladed axe was so sharp, it actually cut Gertha’s finger, causing it to bleed. Astonished that the blade cut Gertha’s finger, James quickly too Gertha in his arms hugging, kissing and apologizing.

Iv’e often watched my father, Lawrence Monroe Hogue carve wood. One time he made a “link chain” from a single block of wood. At the end of the chain was a solid enclosed cage, with two carved movable wooden balls inside the solid enclosed cage. I kept asking dad how the balls got into the solid enclosed wooden cage. He said he carved them in there. Sybil always said that dad got his wood carving skills from his dad Oscar.

While visiting with Sybil, she told me the story of how their brother Willie Wayne Hogue died. “Willie was sick, and her mom, Ittie Cemantha (Elms) Hogue, covered Willie’s face with tar. It was around Thanksgiving, or Christmas time because the family had just eaten a big dinner. Willie Wayne was sick in bed and doctors had told Ittie not to give Willie any food, because of his sickness, he would have a hard time digesting the food. Willie Wayne was crying for his mom to give him a piece of banana. Ittie was just about to give in and give Willie a piece when he died. Grandma Elms was their and she tied a red bandanna around Willies head and jaw to keep his mouth from dropping open after his death. It was determined that Willie Wayne died from pneumonia.”

Dad and I spent two days with his brother Homer Harold Hogue and wife Lea, in Concord, California. Harold told me that at the age of thirteen his father Oscar was let go by Roly Canard. Harold at that time decided to leave home because there was just no reason to stay. He traveled by bust to West Texas and worked in a restaurant belonging to Charlie Smith. Charlie was heavy set with a beer belly. Around his waist was a leather belt and holster with handgun. Harold told me that Charlie drank quite a bit and one day he just up and left. Nobody had heard from him again.

Uncle Homer Harold Hogue served during WWII. He enlisted August of 1942 and was in the 13th Armored Division, 135th battalion, Company C. He spent over a year in Germany and commented that the Germans sure knew how to build better highways than the ones built today here in America. Harold served in ordinance and once his squad was called on to remove an unexploded shell from the barrel of a tank, in order to salvage the shield behind it. The shield could not be removed unless this shell was removed from the barrel. His squad all drew straws to see who would cut the unexploded lodged shell from the barrel and he drew the shortest straw. Harold commented, he had never seen men move so fast to get out of the way. Harold cut that shell out of the barrel with a torch, knowing that the tiniest bit of heat could have exploded that shell.

Harold brought out a leather holster with a Walther P38 automatic handgun. Etched on the inside of the holster was a German Officer’s name. Harold said that he took the weapon from a dead German Officer in Germany. Harold said that many of the U. S. soldiers brought back souvenirs and that he had hid the weapons in a haystack and retrieved it later before coming back to the states. Harold had given my father one of these weapons, it is an 8mm mouser. Harold was discharged from the army January 24, 1946. Harold said that Walt Disney had drawn a cartoon cat as sort of a mascot to the 13th Armored Division and Harold remembers a celebration parade and he saw Walt Disney.

Harold said before he went into the service, he worked on the oil rigs in Texas. He worked at the bottom of the rig. One day a man fell from the top of one of these rigs and smashed on the ground below. Harold said when he looked at the man he could see the man was dead and described him as being all messed up. The forman working the oil rig immediately needed someone to go back up top of the rig and work. All the men were asked and no one would do it. The forman looked at the young 17 year old Harold and said, “How ‘bout you Hogue”. Harold said he volunteered and went up top. I told Harold that I would never have volunteered, because I’m afraid of heights. Harold replied that neither would he if older at the time, but, being young, it didn’t bother him. He knew that the man who fell to his death was careless. He explained that the man did not tie off on top, meaning, he had a safety belt which was secured to a stationary object and to the man’s waist, to catch the man and prevent a death fall. The man didn’t secure himself to either. Harold said that when working around oil, everything is slippery and dirty and the man slipped and fell.

Upon returning home to Weed with my father, I asked him about some of his families other pastimes. Dad told me that his dad (Oscar) always went into town on Saturday. Oscar would drive his horses and wagons into Wetumka. Everyone went into town on Saturday, it was everyone’s chance to see their neighbors. Dad remembers his dad walking up and down main street all day visiting.

Rolla Canard, Principal Chief Creek Nation

• Interview with Lawrence Monroe Hogue by his son Patrick Lawrence Hogue (Samples) on (1 Dec 1985).

Oscar Samuel Hogue was Sharecropping for Roly Canard.

My father Lawrence Monroe Hogue and my Aunt Sybil reminisced about the Hogue family living on Roly Canard's place, or "Roly's Place" during the late 1920's and 1930's. They said their dad Oscar Samuel Hogue was a good farmer and shared-farmed on Roly's property for a living. Share farming was farming the land of another and sharing the crop produced from it. Roly Canard was a full-blooded Creek Indian and was Chief of the Creek Tribe and pastor of the outside church near Wetumka. The outside church had a wooden canopy and wooden benches for the people to sit. Dad and Sybil remember there were some good gatherings there. Dad said people use to line up table's end to end and there would be every kind of food you could think of on top of these tables. Sometimes the Creek Indians would swing a ham tied to a rope from a tree branch, shooting arrows at it. The first to hit the ham with an arrow got the ham.

Dad remembered one time on Roly's Place that an Indian walked into the house they were living in and hugged the heater stove to keep warm because it was freezing cold outside. The Indian never spoke a word and after warming himself, walked out and they never saw him again. Dad said they would never forget that Indian!

There was a barn on Roly's Place and the Hogue's kept a wooden storage chest in it. Inside the chest were many personal valuables that were kept for sentimental purposes. Dad remembers his father Oscar going into the barn to get the bible out of the chest. Oscar would spend time in the barn reading the bible.

One day the barn was struck by a bolt of lighting which was so powerful it tore through the roof, through the hayloft, and made a hole in the concrete floor. It was very loud. As a result, the barn caught fire and burned to the ground. The Hogue storage chest was completely burned. Dad and Sybil remember they stayed in the cellar during the storm and that someone had to run into the town of Wetumka to tell their dad [Oscar] the barn caught fire. I asked my dad if the fire department responded. He said that the fire department could not get there because the truck could not cross the flooded & muddy creek on Roly's property.

It wasn't long after the barn burned that Roly Canard let Oscar Hogue "Go". It wasn't because Oscar was a bad farmer, but because Roly lost a good mare and probably didn't want to buy another one and without the mares you couldn't plow the fields.

My Dad remembers Roly Canard as always seeing to the Hogue Family while they lived on this property. "We never did without." Dad remembers that as a kid he would pick potato bugs off the potatoes for Roly and when finished, Roly would hand him a nickel. In those days a nickel was a lot to a kid.