User talk:Samples 59

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Welcome to WeRelate, your virtual genealogical community. We're glad you have joined us. At WeRelate you can easily create ancestor web pages, connect with cousins and other genealogists, and find new information. To get started:

If you need any help, we will be glad to answer your questions. Just go to the Support page, click on the Add Topic link, type your message, then click the Save Page button. Thanks for participating and see you around! --Support 12:25, 10 January 2013 (EST)


Samuel Semple [13 January 2013]

Hello! Welcome. I've noticed your extensive work on Person:Samuel Samples (2), and, since you're new, wanted to make a couple of best practices suggestions.

First, you have numerous sources entered (which is great), but they are 1) entered with a drop-down choice of "mysource", but the pages have not been created, which makes them show up as red links, and 2) the source detail field contains details about the source itself rather than what the source says about the person.

Some of these pages already exist (i.e., Source:Veech, James. Monongahela of Old, or, Historical Sketches of South-Western Pennsylvania to the Year 1800). When entering a source, you should always check and link to the existing Source Page where appropriate. If no page exists, then please follow the page naming rules (found Help:Source page titles and here) and add the appropriate Source Page. On that page, you should put the information you have gathered about the source itself. If no Source Page exists, and you do not intend to reuse the source, then you can instead choose "citation only" in the drop-down menu. This will prevent the sources from showing as a red link. MySources are intended for sources that are either very suspect quality (i.e. websites, letters from cousins) or unique to one or a handful of people (birth/death certificates, pension records). Most of your sources do not fall in this category, so should either be created as Source Pages, or use Citation Only.

Second, you are making extensive use of the "description" field. As you have probably noticed, this makes editing of this information very difficult, and source citation tricky. It also makes it hard to create a narrative that ties together the events in one's life. I admit that after reading through your entries, I do not understand how most of them relate to Samuel Samples, and that is something that could be explained in a unified narrative. Sources can be cited in the narrative by using <ref name=S#/> (where S# is the source number, i.e., S1), or, similarly, <ref>Text</ref>, where "Text" is the footnote that appears in the "References" list, which allows for non-standard formatting of citations (I use it for page numbers, and embedded references ("Anderson, citing....") for example). It isn't really a requirement to do it one way v. another, I just wanted to point out the difficulty for others in your current approach, and make sure you knew the ways the wiki is set up to create alternatives.

If you have questions, you can check Portal:Source or ask on my talk page. It's always helpful to know what people want to know and can't find easily. Regards, --Amelia 23:42, 13 January 2013 (EST) (volunteer admin)


Adding unsourced, questionable information [23 January 2013]

Hello, I've noticed several recent changes regarding the Hogue/Hoge family of Delaware and Virginia. Several of these persons added are unsourced and some have contained questionable information (born in counties that did not exist until several years after their birthdate, children born several years BEFORE their parents were married, etc.). We'd ask that you only add Persons or Families to WeRelate that are adequately sourced and researched, and make sure that those sources are cited on the Person and/or Family Pages to show other researchers that those pages have been thoroughly researched. Obviously, primary sources (original documents and records), are much prefered over secondary sources or below.

Also, information solely based on being "found on the internet" is NOT considered trustworthy unless it has been backed up (verified) by other (hopefully) primary sources, and should not be added to WeRelate until it can be verified.

Thanks much for your assistance and best regards,

Jim
Volunteer Administrator, WeRelate--Delijim 11:05, 23 January 2013 (EST)

Thomas Rutherford [24 January 2013]

You've added a Thomas Rutherford as a father of Mary B. Rutherford. This person does not exist. The birthdate in 1695 likely belongs to Thomas Rutherford, (1695-1768), who died in Frederick County, Virginia, and the date of death, 20 March 1770 is the date of death (actually BEFORE this date, as it was the date his will was proven) of a different Thomas Rutherford, (b. abt. 1735, d. bef. 20 March 1770, who is a nephew of the first Thomas. There are also no records or sources listed on the Thomas Rutherford you've added to substantiate him as the father of Mary B. Rutherford, or establish Thomas in Augusta County. Since WeRelate only allows one Person Page for each person, the Person Page for the Thomas Rutherford you've added will be deleted unless you can substantiate him with records to distinguish him from the existing Thomas Rutherford that DID leave a will that was proven on 20 March 1770 in Augusta County.

Also, the Thomas Rutherford that did die before 20 March 1770 in Augusta County, DID have a daughter Mary Rutherford, but she married Spencer Hill, as proven in the following record in Chalkley's:

Vol. 2 - SEPTEMBER, 1802 (H to Z). - Memorandum, 1790-91. Memorandum for Mr. Williams. Enquire after Elliott Rutherford, executor to his brother, Thomas Rutherford, who died about 20 years ago. Spencer Hill married Mary Rutherford, daughter of Thomas Rutherford, deceased, and her fortune is in the hands of Elliott, who lives about one mile from Rockingham Courthouse.


Thanks much for your cooperation and best regards,

Jim--Delijim 09:02, 24 January 2013 (EST)


Adding additional Person Pages for existing Persons on WeRelate [27 January 2013]

Hello again, we've noticed that you've added additional Person Pages for persons that already exist on WeRelate. For instance, on January 24th, you added John Woods as a son of John Woods and Isabella Bruce, when another John Woods was already listed as their son. Since WeRelate only allows a single Person Page for each person, we'd ask that you please comply with that rule. If you'd like to add additional records and/or documentation to existing Person Pages, that would be fine (primary records are preferable). Also, you've added Elizabeth Worshop as the wife of John Woods (104). As you'll note on the Analysis: The Wife of John Woods, the wife of John Woods is not likely to be Elizabeth Worshop, per the research of several previous genealogists.

We'd ask for your understanding and cooperation in collaborating with existing WeRelate Users instead of adding additional Person and Family Pages that will eventually have to be merged to keep them consistent with other WeRelate pages.

Thanks and best regards,

Jim--Delijim 15:42, 27 January 2013 (EST)


Got your message [14 February 2013]

Hi Pat, I got your message on George Croghan. I believe you might want to concentrate on adding your lines where they have been more "source-based" and well-researched. I don't know who George's wife is, but if I had to guess, based upon the article on several other person pages, I think it was probably a SISTER of Sarah Wilkins, who married Robert Trent. Supposedly Robert Trent and George Croghan were brothers-in-law, so both marrying Wilkins sisters would accomplish this, although, we still need records to back up this thinking.... Let me know if you find anything:)

Best regards,

Jim--Delijim 08:19, 14 February 2013 (EST)


County Formation in Virginia [17 March 2013]

Hello, I noticed a change you made to Gideon Blackburn, changing his place of birth in 1772 from Augusta County to Rockbridge County. Since Rockbridge County did not exist until 1777, Augusta County would have been where Gideon was born (if the area he was born in later became Rockbridge). As you're looking at records in the Augusta County, Virginia area, you might want to keep in mind the dates of county formations to make sure you're putting the correct places depending upon the year:

Orange - formed in 1734 from part of Spotsylvania
Augusta - formed in 1738 from Orange (records kept in Orange until 1745)
Frederick - formed in 1743 from Orange
Hampshire - formed in 1754 from parts of Frederick and Augusta
Botetourt - formed in 1770 from Augusta
Berkeley - formed in 1772 from northern third of Frederick
Shenandoah - formed in 1772 (then called Dunmore) from part of Frederick, Dunmore was later re-named in 1778 to Shenandoah
Rockbridge - formed in 1777 from part of Augusta and Botetourt
Greenbrier - formed in 1778 from part of Botetourt and Montgomery
Rockingham - formed in 1778 from part of Augusta
Hardy - formed in 1786 from part of Hampshire
Pendleton - formed in 1787/88 from parts of Augusta, Hardy and Rockingham
Bath - formed in 1790 from parts of Augusta, Botetourt and Greenbrier
Monroe - formed in 1799 from part of Greenbrier

Hope that helps.

Best regards,

Jim:)--Delijim 17:59, 15 March 2013 (EDT)


Record of Samuel Samples in West Augusta [9 June 2013]

Hi Pat, I ran across the following record of a Samuel Samples, but I'm not sure which one of the three Samuel's of the correct age that it might be:

At Court Con'd and held for Augusta County at Fort Dunmore, Sepr. 20th, 1775
On the motion of Sam's Sample, It is Ordered that his Serv't Woman, Betty McHolister, serve him 12 Mo; it App by Wits that she had a bastard, It is Ord that she Serve.
[Source: http://www.oldsaintlukes.org/court.htm].

I thought you might know which one it might belong to....

Best regards,

Jim:)--Delijim 21:39, 8 June 2013 (EDT)


Record of Samuel Samples in West Augusta [9 June 2013]

Hi Pat, I ran across the following record of a Samuel Samples, but I'm not sure which one of the three Samuel's of the correct age that it might be:

At Court Con'd and held for Augusta County at Fort Dunmore, Sepr. 20th, 1775
On the motion of Sam's Sample, It is Ordered that his Serv't Woman, Betty McHolister, serve him 12 Mo; it App by Wits that she had a bastard, It is Ord that she Serve.
[Source: http://www.oldsaintlukes.org/court.htm].

I thought you might know which one it might belong to....

Best regards,

Jim:)--Delijim 21:39, 8 June 2013 (EDT)


Sources for dates [27 June 2013]

Hi. It is great to see someone working on some of the same people as I am. I just want to explain what I have been doing with dates/sources for dates so it doesn't seem too nitpicky or, worse, hostile. A problem in the medieval area is that a number of large, low quality GEDCOMs were uploaded a few years ago with dates that were sometimes right, and very often wildly off, and no sources given -- which made all the unsourced dates in the medieval area of Werelate pretty much worse than useless, since all unsourced dates became untrustworthy, and the dates have occasionally generated conflicts surrounding merges.

I know adding sources for dates can seem a hassle. (They did for me for a long time.) But when you look at it from the point of view of a (sophisticated) reader of the page, the difference is night and day.

Anyways, I didn't mean to come here to give a sermon on sources. I just wanted to explain my last couple of edits. On the page Family:John Dutton and Margaret Atherton (2), I moved "1438" to an alt marriage, since the only source cited, Ormerod, doesn't give a date, and it would be misleading to give the impression that Ormerod is the cite for "1438". (I am sure you know this already, but just in case you don't: if you want to give a citation for a fact, there is a box below and to the right of the fact (when you are editing the page.) If you click on the plus sign beside the box, it will take you to the beginning of the process for citing a source. If the source is already in the list of references, then you don't have to do this. Rather, just type, for example, 'S2' in the box if the cite is the second reference in the list of references.)

On the page Person:Margaret Atherton (4) I thought I would be helpful be doing that for you for the death date. Then I deleted my edit when I discovered that the third reference isn't actually a cite for the 1453 death date for Margaret.

Yours, --Werebear 11:42, 27 June 2013 (EDT)


Source titles [25 July 2013]

Just wanted to note that the source title format for books is Author. Title, with last name first, and no honorifics (i.e. PhD). I've renamed a few of yours lately, so wanted to let you know. Thanks, --Amelia 14:26, 25 July 2013 (EDT)


I'm confused [31 August 2013]

How does moses etherton sr get to green co with his original wife Rachel After being married to Mary bigerstaff in Illinois and Hickman co and fathering 4 children while all That time spelling his name atherton not etherton? The moses atherton in the 1820 census in Ill. And 1830 and 1840 in Hickman co my is 7 years older than moses etherton jr not young enough to be etherton jr and not old enough to be etherton sr

I appreciate your efforts but obviously disagree with your conclusions Jim atherton. ( Moses is my 3x gr grandfather)--Jimatherton 01:08, 31 August 2013 (EDT)


Duplicate pages [13 November 2013]

Hi Samples 59, I was working on WR's Duplicates report and noticed one of your familes: Family:Robert Semple and Ann Lowry (1). There are two wives listed on the page, which will need to be corrected. If Robert Baylor Semple married both Ann and Lucy, you would need to create a new family page for Robert Semple and Luch Clark. Also, the list of your potential duplicates can be found here or by clicking on My Relate>Show Duplicates.

If you have any questions about merging duplicate pages, just let me know! Thanks --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:15, 13 November 2013 (UTC)


Multiple spouses [13 November 2013]

Hi again, I found a few more family pages that contain multiple spouses, such as Family:Gabriel Semple and Jonet Spruele (1). Each family group needs to have their own Family page. If a person married twice, you would go to their Person page and click on the "Add another spouse & children" link on the right side of the page. The page for Gabriel will need to be corrected. Since the title says "Gabriel Semple and Jonet Spruele", you would remove John de Pollock by editing the page and clicking the Remove link next to John de Pollock's name. If you have questions about fixing these, or if you would like more explanation on creating Family pages for additional spouses, just let me know. Thank you, --Jennifer (JBS66) 13:55, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Additional pages that need to be fixed:


Hi There! [26 November 2013]

Could you please review the remarks I've added to the Semple Clan "Person" page and the immediate family page? The content is very nice - but there is a more proper location.

Thanks! --jrm03063 18:38, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

 ??? --jrm03063 19:08, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Yes - what's needed - is to move general information on the clan to the Category page for the clan. Since you have a really extensive amount of information - it might be more appropriate to create an article on Clan Semple (no special namespace) which would itself be included/referred to by the category. --jrm03063 19:13, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

I'll start working on that...Thanks--Samples 59 19:18, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Ok, in general what you're doing seems reasonable to me - presuming that you're satisfied that Semple is the proper clan and it's origins are Scottish (it's a sub-category of the Scottish Clan category).
It's fine to add pages to a Category using the traditional [[Category:whatever|sortkey]] syntax. As a matter of "official practice" - that's the correct way to do it. My practice of recent months however, is to try to make use of an appropriate key "fact" that establishes membership in the category. I then populate the fact's description field with a template that not only adds the Person page to the category, but also creates a link to the category at the right spot on the displayed fact list. I prefer this since it provides a way to add explicit source support for category membership. That relationship would also survive a GEDCOM export (even though the template string probably wouldn't do anything very useful when imported to another system).
For example, if someone is a member of a clan by virtue of birth - then I would put in the birth description field {{CategorySorted|Clan Sempill|Last, First}}. If I wanted to have the text in the description field appear with text other than "Clan Sempill", then {{Category|Clan Sempill|other text that I want as link to category|Last, First}}.
From what I've read about clans - membership is not strictly genealogical - as it would be for a House of Nobility or a Dynasty. Is someone were to become a member of a clan by virtue of changing their residence or pledging an oath of allegiance - then I would think the preferred fact types would be "Residence" or "Other" respectively.
Does that seem reasonable to you?

When you're satisfied that you've moved everything you wanted from [Person:Clan Semple], please let me know and I'll delete it.

I was wondering - is the page, [Family:Unknown Sempill and Unknown (1)] "real"? By that I mean, is this meant to mean that the children of the family are siblings? Or are they the most distant relatives in your collection, who are believed/held to be of the clan? If not a real family, then this page too should be removed. You can rely on the category to keep those names together and, if you wish, you could create a list or table on the category page to indicate people who are foundational (as far as hereditary membership in the clan is presently understood) - even if their exact parents are not known. --jrm03063 15:06, 26 November 2013 (UTC)


Another Idea.... [26 November 2013]

Even though I set up what exists regarding Scottish Clans and some related pages - I don't really have much knowledge on the subject - and I can't admit to a whole bunch of interest either. However, if I understand some of what you're doing, a few thoughts come to mind.

It seems that there are branches or sub-groups in the overall Clan. At present - you're creating a variety of sections on the Clan Semple page - corresponding to each of those sections. Further - you are concerned/interested in knowing what people are associated with what subgroups. The wiki software of WR can help you with that in a couple of different ways.

One way, would be to select a sort key (in the syntax where a page is indicated as being part of the category) that encodes the subgroup. Then, the pages appearing at the bottom of the category page would be ordered by groups.

But the more obvious, and presumably better choice, is to create sub-categories. Individual Person pages would be attached to their sub-category. Resources specific to a sub-category would be indicated in that sub-category. Finally, the sub-category would itself be a member of the "Clan Semple" category. --jrm03063 18:27, 26 November 2013 (UTC)


Identity of Jane O'Neil who was adopted by Alexander Mathes [28 November 2013]

Howdy Pat, I noticed you had added Hugh O'Neal and Ann Cox as parents of Jane O'Neal, who was adopted by Alexander Mathes. I do not think the records support them as her parents. Jean is listed in the will of John Wiley, as follows:

  • Page 113.--11th December, 1748. John Willey (Wiley)'s will--Daughters, Jean and Margaret; son, George. Executors, Alexander Mathews and George Leath. Jean is aged 7 years 13th of next June. Margaret is aged 5 years 23d of next April. George is aged 2 years 23d of next April. Teste: Thos. Brown, William Beames. (Note that Alexander Mathes (Mathews) was named the Executor of John Wiley's will, tying in with the subsequent adoption of his step-daughter Jean).

And subsequent records show that Jean and her likely sister Margaret appear to be step-children of John, as shown in this Chalkley's record:

  • Vol. 1 - MAY 22, 1750. (360) Church Wardens to bind out Jane O'Neal, Margaret O'Neal, and George Wiley, orphans of John Wiley, decd.

And per your prior revision, Jane was bound to Alexander Mathews (Mathes) in this record:

  • Vol. 2 - Page 63.--28th August, 1750: Orphan Jane O'Neal bound to Alex. Mathews (aged 8 years last July).

So John Wiley appears to have married an O'Neal widow (with daughters Jane and Margaret) prior to the birth of his son George in 1746, but the dates of death of the Hugh O'Neal and Ann Cox, do not agree with these records.

If you have any additional records to prove Hugh O'Neal and Ann Cox as parents of Jane and her sister Margaret, I'd appreciate seeing them, but if not, I believe the records firmly support them as step-children of John Wiley from a yet un-named wife, an O'Neal widow.

If records exist for Hugh O'Neal and Ann Cox as their parents, I will make the changes to correspond with such records that you may have.

I will also note that it is very clear from the records that there were two different Jean's in this equation: 1) Jean O'Neal, born 13 June [or possibly July] 1742, step-daughter of John Wiley, and 2) Jean Mathes, born 23 April 1747 [Find-A-Grave], daughter of Alexander Mathes (Matthews). It appears that several researchers have combined them into a single person, in spite of records establishing them as two different people.

Thanks and best regards,

Jim--Delijim 15:35, 27 November 2013 (UTC)


Hello, No additional records. Thanks--Samples 59 01:42, 28 November 2013 (UTC)


GEDCOM Export Ready [27 November 2013]

The GEDCOM for tree Default is ready to download. Click here.


GEDCOM Export Ready [27 November 2013]

The GEDCOM for tree Default is ready to download. Click here.


GEDCOM Export Ready [28 November 2013]

The GEDCOM for tree Default is ready to download. Click here.


Duplicate pages for Family George Duffield and Elizabeth Blair [29 November 2013]

I noticed you created two different pages for the family George Duffield and Elizabeth Blair. I have merged them because, as you know, there are not supposed to be duplicate pages for the same person or the same family on WeRelate. It appears that one reason for creating the different pages may be because there is conflicting information regarding the parents of Elizabeth Blair, as well as for her actual name. Rather than creating duplicate pages, which can mislead other researchers, it's better to try to resolve the conflicts (with sources, of course). If you can't resolve the conflict, it's still better to state that there is a problem of conflicting information so that other researchers will be aware of the problem(s).

Hope this helps, --GayelKnott 05:38, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

I would also note, that there are ways to record speculation and alternatives, short of insisting on a single answer. Perhaps we should all go look at the page and see what alternatives are presented? Along with whatever support those ideas may have? --jrm03063 21:31, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Creating Duplicate Pages [24 July 2014]

I see you have created duplicate pages for Isaac Cochran and Rosanna Sample. Although there were some differences between the pages, these people had enough information in common that I merged them. When there is conflicting information, especially from derivative (or unnamed) sources, it is not helpful to create duplicate pages. First, the duplicate pages hide the fact there there is conflicting information that needs to be resolved. Second, it becomes very confusing to anyone else who is seeking information about this family, or perhaps has information to contribute. In order to avoid the confusion and to make it clear that there is a problem that needs to be resolved, all the information should be on one page. Having merged the pages, it now becomes obvious that there are problems with the information.

I've also added information from the DAR files for both Isaac and for his father Samuel. Admittedly, the DAR can be wrong (it is a derivative source), but it does provide at least one source for Isaac. Perhaps you could provide other sources, which can then be evaluated in terms of their quality, and this might help to resolve the problem with conflicting information. --GayelKnott 01:30, 25 July 2014 (UTC)


"Easter" Greenrock [8 October 2014]

Good heavens, copy /paste errors abound. Apologies, thanks for corrections, please do not feel obligated to catch them all, I will revisit.

Thanks, Jon--Jonmcrawford 14:53, 8 October 2014 (UTC)


Thank you [17 November 2014]

Hi,

Thank you for compiling all of the information regarding the Sample/Semple family.

Regards, David Sample Alexandria, Virginia--Tyrion1 16:39, 17 November 2014 (UTC)


Alexander Eakin - Father of your James Eakin [20 December 2014]

I have filled in the basics on Alexander Eakin of Washington County VA who was father of your Ancestor James Eakin. I have also left you a note from Ancestry post of a related cousin that should lead you to the family of Alexander.--EakinKin 04:03, 20 December 2014 (UTC)