User talk:JBS66/Netherlands (Nederland) Portal

Hi Jenny

, it is a lovely idea in itself; we must give the matter thought. The audience would likely come to include the descendants from the great migration waves; therefore: for them: in English as well. vriendelijke groeten, Leo

Hi, no the National Archive [formerly: Algemeen Rijksarchief] functions as state archive for the province Z-H. The other thing is some historical centre I had never even heard of.........well,.......considered myself an educated guy, well, well..........:)

groeten Leo --Leo Bijl 08:02, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Educated guy you are! Thank you for catching my question!

I expect that I may have made some mistakes, as I'm reading most of the sites through Google Translate, but I figured it was a starting point.--Jennifer (JBS66) 08:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

You've caught all of them, did the city names for you. Leeuwarden doesn't seem to link back to the portal, unless I looked over

Thank you for entering the city names. You know, you gave me a new way of looking at the Place field. I was thinking it meant the Place that this resource covers (ie all of the province of Friesland), but it makes sense that it's the town where the archive is located in!

When you way that Leeuwarden doesn't link back to the portal, what do you mean?--Jennifer (JBS66) 09:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

It's nothing, just overlooked that it is a list of a few hundred; and it's the one at the very end :) --Leo Bijl 09:25, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Noticed that Haarlem was already there, including adress and phonenumber; must we do that for all? Extra work and it is evident from the websites I would say (besides, things change over the years). leo

No, I only enter the Place and URL - I skip the phone number & address (for the same reasons that you describe).--Jennifer (JBS66) 09:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Waterkoeler [17 mrt 2009]

Sounds funny:), I've heard of wine/wijnkoeler leo --Leo Bijl 09:42, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

I moved over your comment, since we probably don't want to create a Waterkoeler page :)

Sounds like it doesn't translate too well! Watercooler is meant as a place where office workers stand around and gossip - though standing around the wijnkoeler at work sounds like fun! --Jennifer (JBS66) 09:56, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Nice! Time for a drink. What of "forum" then or something (less imaginative, I admit). Leo

Don't remember what made me do that; suppose it must have been the wijnkoeler :). Better delete the empty one.

Now, I'm going to admit, I'm confused! I've seen s-Gravenhage, The Hague, Den Haag - are there any other things you call this city???--Jennifer (JBS66) 10:27, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Fun! 's-Gravenhage is the official name but we always say Den Haag, even institutions do (the Library even, and the Queen, I take it). What made me choose for The Hague at first, was that WR is international (French: La Haye, etc) and that 's-Gr. wouldn't mean anything to anyone.

groetjes, Leo (flooded with emails, lol)

You sure you don't want to change the preference that sends you an e-mail every time a watched page is changed? Don't want you to start getting annoyed or anything! :~) --Jennifer (JBS66) 12:12, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

No Jennifer dear, not at all, it's quite allright. I enjoy the messages crossing the ocean at lightspeed. The cat annoys me, 'cause his food has run out, so I am off now. Love to see the project expanding. groeten, Leo --Leo Bijl 12:25, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

CBG and Royal Library [17 mrt 2009]

There is this one for the box general research

http://www.cbg.nl/

leo--Leo Bijl 10:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

I'll add a link to CBG's Repository Page.

Also, when I was searching for that, I see that you made 2 Source Pages for Collecties Centraal Bureau Voor Genealogie, Source:Collecties Centraal Bureau Voor Genealogie and Source:Collecties Centraal Bureau voor Genealogie. Do you want both of them?

And then there is our national pride, the Royal Library: http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Repository:Koninklijke_Bibliotheek--Leo Bijl 10:16, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

doesn't seem to work, this then: http://www.kb.nl/

You did make a page for the Repository:Koninklijke Bibliotheek (when you reference an internal link, you don't need the whole URL). Ooh - I'm going to have to spend some time at this website!

This is a nice one: (and some 70 hits for Swart btw)

http://www.mensenlinq.nl/mensenlinq/overlijdennl/site/home

Combined effort of regional newspapers. It is a collection of digitalised obituaries, starting 2006, daily updated. I have a page for it. Leo--Leo Bijl 11:46, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Dutch Forum [16 March 2009]

Hallo Leo,

Dallan gave his OK for us to create a Dutch language version of the Watercooler (so now the local gossip can take place away from your User Page!). Like the Main Watercooler, it would be a page "for discussing anything you want to discuss unless it relates only to a single page."

I'm thinking maybe the title: WeRelate talk:Forum (Dutch). However, I believe I err here. If this were a French forum, I would title it WeRelate talk:Forum (Français), so would WeRelate talk:Forum (Nederlands) be more accurate? So in the end, we'd create a language specific watercooler instead of a country specific one.

Also, feel free to give me your opinions... (like do you think this concept will catch on?)

Vriendelijke groeten (without using a translator, this looks like friendly greetings).--Jennifer (JBS66) 15:19, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

featured [16 March 2009]

I think "Uitgelicht" wouldn't be a bad candidate. The verb uitlichten = lift out something, set apart from the rest, so as to focus attention to it. Uitgelicht being perfect participle

How delightfully charming of you to take one of mine.

vriendelijke groeten (you translated it without any assistance, bravo for the USA lady) Leo--Leo Bijl 16:33, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

My goodness, you're really fast!. Leave out the word 'pagina', it doesn't combine, forgot to mention, so sorry. Leo

I was already working on the page when you left the note on the talk page - so, I'm not that fast. Don't be sorry!--Jennifer (JBS66) 18:41, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Onderzoekslinks [17 mrt 2009]

Onderzoekslinks would do better.[-s = genetive suffix]. Like German my language is one of the champions in making long words, whereas English follows Romance languages in separation.--Leo Bijl 18:28, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

discussieforum [18 March 2009]

discussion forum = discussieforum

helping out = hulp gevraagd [no capital g there]

date...well, mar. would be English; we say maart, abbrev. mostly mrt. [when and if we use that, which we rarely do]; then there is mei/may, which has no abbrev.

But is it really a matter of relevance; the names being international, at least for the western world, as far as I know. And only these two differ slightly.

Personally nowadays, I am gradually switching over to the American notation: 1900.01.01, being jan. first--Leo Bijl 18:55, 16 March 2009 (EDT) I was able to find this wording in a new Help:Date Conventions page: "The preferred format of dates is DD MMM YYYY. For example, 14 Sep 1753". I know that to avoid confusion and for future implementation of GEDCOM uploads, we want to encourage a standard. As it says in the Help "Dates should never be given in numeric form, as there is far too much ambiguity inherent in these forms. If the record of the event uses numeric dates, it should be converted and entered in the form above." (Sorry - I didn't write it!)

Perhaps changing the portal text to read (that is if I've translated correctly!): Datum: dag maand jaar: 19 mrt 1874 (small m for mrt?)

Then, I was going to discuss Source titling conventions! I had brought up the issue elsewhere that I believe the way we title book sources does not seem international friendly. WR wants "title case"(Capitalize everything except articles (a, an, the) and prepositions (of, to, above, for, etc.) instead of "sentence case" (Capitalize first letter and proper nouns). Do you think this is something that warrants mentioning on the portal?

'Jennifer, do I take it correctly that with 'everything' they actually mean this:

"The History of a Cup of Hot Boiled Tea Without Sugar in the Rural Areas of France And Germany in the Early Nineteenth Century" ; including the copulativum 'and'. :)

Whereas -quote!- Library of Congress: De invloed van het heliumisotoop met massa 3 op de eigenschappen van vloeibaar helium II. Beenakker, Joannes Joseph Maria, 1926- | 1954] | text Leo --Leo Bijl 17:25, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

' Thank you for the translations! Until later. --Jennifer (JBS66) 07:11, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Goodness Leo, surely you jest! Tea without sugar??? The thought makes me cringe! Then, you go from talking about tea - to helium isotopes - to the most interesting word I have ever seen to describe the conjunction (and) - Leo, I believe I'm dizzy! ;-) Let me start a new heading below for this most interesting - and complicated discussion.--Jennifer (JBS66) 06:35, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

Capitalizing Titles

The subject of how to capitalize a book title... The rules are about as complicated as - well - the English language! Here is a primer on it Wikipedia:wikibooks:Basic_Book_Design/Capitalizing_Words_in_Titles.

So, let's see, in your example I think you only erred with - and...

Mention the issue around here and you'll witness the ruffling of feathers - and encounter resistance like ... oh I don't know, trying to move a boulder up hill maybe? Am I wrong?? I thought your second example is more internationally appropriate. You can't even attribute it to being a foreign language title, because the LOC has all their titles like that.

I could very much enjoy a lively debate about this, but I fear it's for naught. I'm told it's more an issue of computer programming. Apparently it is easier to program the system to NOT capitalize certain "special" words (hmmm does that include all the foreign language versions of these words too). With the sentence case/LOC way - the computer would have to be smart enough to know what a Proper Noun is.--Jennifer (JBS66) 10:15, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

forum etc [17 March 2009]

Het Nederlandse (mind –e here, adj. here declines) discussieforum is bedoeld om alles wat je wilt met elkaar te bespreken, tenzij dat het betrekking heeft op één enkele pagina. Heb je een vraag of opmerking over een specifieke persoon of familie, laat dan op die betrokken pagina een bericht achter.

  .

(ps : is ‘discussing what you want to discuss’ fair English, same verb twice}

Abbr. b.v. is correct. Also: bijv.

Capital letters for months and days have become obsolete.

Till later Jennifer, I’ ll be back on the other matters. Vr. Groeten. Leo--Leo Bijl 08:12, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

forgot this one:

Naams- yes, because it is not a loose word; it's a genetive case and the primary component has been moved towards the end

en datumconventies. 

or you might also go for: Naams- en datumgebruik [gebruik = usage]--Leo Bijl 08:30, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

next to province: nederland without -s; nederlands is an adject. whereas nederland is a noun

do you mean "Plaats (voor Nederland): dorp, gemeente, provincie, Netherlands"? I did Netherlands because even though our towns and provinces are/could be in native language, the country is not (go figure). ie, Rotterdam, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands.

true, it escaped my attention, saw it afterwards

btw - love the grammar lessons!--Jennifer (JBS66) 10:04, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

well, how lovely, more to come then as we go; and you are such a talented student! bravo! Leo

Salut, Hello, Hallo Leo en anderen [17 mrt 2009]

van Nicolette, from Nicky, or whatever. Seems you haven't decided on a language yet...it's all the same to me English, Dutch, French...:)

Bye, see you later, Toedeloe, et Chiao!

Nicolette: Brongers, Bijl, Eikenberg, de Vries, Riemersma, Land, de Vries, van der Veen (That's one circle in the wagon wheel...)--Nicolette 05:05, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Hello Nicolette - Welcome! --Leo Bijl 10:17, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

wargraves [18 mrt 2009]

http://www.ogs.nl/pages/home.asp

including a database: slachtofferregister [register of warvictims]--Leo Bijl 18:03, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Leo. hartelijk dank ! Eindelijk heb ik alle gegevens van mijn oom Dirk Bakker, broer van mijn grootmoeder, kunnen vinden. Hij sneuvelde in 1942 in de Indische Oceaan en kreeg een zeemansgraf.--Bergsmit 03:22, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

Moved from Regionale Archieven in Nederland [16 June 2009]

Storage place for items moved from Regionale Archieven in Nederland (Regional Archives in the Netherlands)

• AlleGroningers (Groningen geboorte-, huwelijks- en overlijdensakten)
• DrenLias (Drentse geboorte-, huwelijks- en overlijdensakten)
• Genealogische Databank http://www.gendalim.nl/
• Isis Brabantarchieven
• Kennemerland http://www.haarlem.digitalestamboom.nl/
• Zuid Oost Utrecht http://www.genealogiezuidoostutrecht.org/
• Westfriese Families
• Source:Noordhollandse Huwelijken
• Midden-Drenthe - Archieven (Beilen) - informatory only, links, its archiefnet; usefull, but it's a different taxonomy
• FriesArchiefNet (WR entry) same as above, provides entrances, but it isn't an archive or source in itself, [doetje swart, buried ferweradiel 1921]
• Genealogie in de Achterhoek (regio/region), private website,provides transcripts, part of it just links back to genlias; different taxonomy again, there he is: {his name is Ben, I believe) http://www.genealogiedomein.nl/index.php?option=com_contact&Itemid=3
• Stichting Oud meppel, nice, but different taxon.-, it's a historical foundation (1964) of private people; study of the towns history, publish periodical, collect photographic material, genealogical search as well; publish on the site, e.g.: http://www.oudmeppel.org/genealogie/vos.html
• Cultuurhistorisch Centrum Oldambt other taxon,- not an archive, created by a regional historical foundation, its role is advisory both to archives and private people, also for geneal-, it promotes the regions history, publishes and assists scanning projects and several other things; location is public library Winschoten, general management: a regional archivarian
• archief van hoogheemraadschap Amstel, Gooi en Vecht (AGV) this concern the administration of the polder; the oldest democracy, as you read before, category of archives in themselves,other kettle of fish, often very old, this goes back to approx 1460; sometimes they are deposited in regular archives
• NEW http://www.oostachterhoek.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=569&Itemid=289
• the public library Oost-Achterhoek at Winterwijk holds the collection of late dr. Das, practitioner of medicine; on april 11 a digital version of the collection became available; the public library is the first in the country to have an item from its manuscript collection of the internet.
• http://www.dans.knaw.nl/en/projectenpagina/
• http://www.kitlv.nl/home/Projects?id=19
• http://www.voorouder.nl/
• http://www.archieven.org/
• http://www.genealogieonline.nl/
• http://www.parlement.com/9291000/modulesf/g6ki9ydx
• http://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/content.jsp?objectid=9779
• http://www.stamboomforum.nl/
• http://gedbas.genealogy.net/
• http://www.geneanet.nl/
• http://www.stambomen.net/nieuws/cbg-neemt-deel-aan-biografisch-portaal.html
• http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.benelux
• http://www.vfg-pulheim.de/thesaurus/texte/totenzettelsammlung_nrw_06-2005/totenzettelsammlung_nrw_06-2005.pdf
• http://www.rkd.nl/rkddb/(44nqg545a2fzyd45andz1455)/default.aspx
• http://www2.archieven.nl/
• http://www.veteranenmeteenmissie.nl/page/pag_view.asp?pag_id=22175
• http://unstats.un.org/UNSD/Demographic/sources/popreg/popregmethods.htm
• http://dave-verdooner.net/
• http://www.groenegraf.nl/
• http://www.plechelmusbasiliek.nl/kerk/dynamic_frame_k.htm?http://www.plechelmusbasiliek.nl/kerk/pagina/kerk_10.htm
• http://www.waterlandsarchief.nl/
• http://www.genliasmonitor.nl/

Newspapers [20 April 2009]

• http://www.archiefalkmaar.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Itemid=34
  • Alkmaarsche Courant (1930-1939)
  • Heldersche Courant (1920-1955)
  • Schager Courant (1857-1919*) *m.u.v. 1872, 1873 en 1892--Jennifer (JBS66) 09:37, 20 April 2009 (EDT)
• http://archiefeemland.courant.nu/
  • De Arrondissementsbode van Amersfoort, 1848-1850
  • Amersfoortsche Courant, 1851-1888, 1910-1920
  • Weekblad voor Amersfoort en Omstreken, 1872-1873, 1878
  • Nieuwe Amersfoortsche Courant, 1880-1900, 1903-1920
  • De Eembode, 1890-september 1941. (Hiaten: april 1910 - maart 1912, januari-maart 1922, april 1936-april 1937)
  • De Eemlander, 1904-1912. (Hiaat: mei - december 1909)
  • Amersfoortsch Dagblad - De Eemlander, 1913-1942
  • Dagblad voor Amersfoort, 23 september 1946 - 15 mei 1964.
  • Leusder Krant, 1970-1993
• Texelsche Courant, 1887-1973 http://www.beeldbanktexel.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=41 or http://www.beeldbanktexel.nl/index.php?option=com_pdpkranten

• http://leiden.courant.nu/
  • Leidsch Dagblad 1984-1988
  • Leidsch Dagblad 1862-1980
  • Nieuwe Leidsche Courant/Trouw 1968-1980
• 't Kleine Krantsje: http://hcl.pictura-dp.nl/content/view/18/39/lang,nl_NL/

Beeldbank [20 April 2009]

• http://beeldbank.zeeuwsebibliotheek.nl/
• Beeldbank Leeuwarden: http://hcl.pictura-dp.nl/content/view/16/30/lang,nl_NL/?
• http://www.beeldbanktexel.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=26

are you sure you want to dive into all these things; there must be hundreds of newspapers and entrances like these and I think you mostly get to them through the main site of the archive or the library; shipload of work this will be... heard of Michael- vaguely, never seen it before; a nice one

No, not planning any big project yet! I just wanted a place to put this info that I found, and I thought this would work. I do like the idea of newspaper source pages (for ones that are available online). If I did add them, I would just do a few here and there - not try to tackle ALL of them!--Jennifer (JBS66) 11:42, 20 April 2009 (EDT)