User talk:JBS66/Medieval Template

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Alternate Names and Wikipedia [19 mrt 2009]

Fred, If you want, you can e-mail me privately by going to this link http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Special:Emailuser/JBS66. I am experimenting with a few ideas regarding alternate names and linking to Wikipedia, among others see Person:Gisela of Swabia (1) where I added a Source link to Dutch Wikipedia. Regards,--Jennifer (JBS66) 10:38, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

Wikipedia is only an encyclopedia, is not scientific. there are to many changes to be a good base for WeRelate. You can see the difference between Wikipedia english and wikipedia dutch, every language will give other differences because having other autors.

Gisela of Swabia (989 or 990 – February 14, 1043 in Goslar) was the daughter of Herman II of Swabia and Gerberga of Burgundy. She first married Bruno I, Count of Brunswick, in 1002. Her second marriage was to Ernest I, Duke of Swabia, and she became regent for their son Ernest II after his death in 1015

Gisela van Zwaben (11 november 995 - 14 februari 1043) was een dochter van Herman II van Zwaben en van Gerberga van Bourgondië. Zij huwde eerst met Ernst I van Zwaben en werd na diens dood in 1015 regent voor hun zoon Ernst II van Zwaben, maar moest dit regentschap afstaan onder het voorwendsel van te nauwe bloedverwantschap met haar echtgenoot. Vervolgens huwde Gisela met Bruno van Brunswijk. Zij huwde tenslotte met Duitse koning Koenraad II

Thank you for this example. I was thinking that since WeRelate has a software that is so similar to Wikipedia, there may be ways to gather alternate names from there (just a thought - I don't know). My other thought was that having the link provides 2 things: 1: it gives us the alternate name, and 2: it gives a link to a foreign language explanation that may help those whose first language is not English.
I want you to know that there are many ways to work to improve this. You have interesting ideas that are very valid. You have done so much to help the medieval space here, and with that you have many ideas on how to improve it. Can we talk about ways to make some of these ideas happen?--Jennifer (JBS66) 16:18, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

I just told to Leo that I deleted my file with doubles in the medieval spece. I made a database of not known duplicates because I gathered all persons and families I could find in medieval space. Now I am busy to unlock all persons and family (tree - and not watch) and I will wait for the new familysearch to merge my medieval ancestors. My "normal" ancestors I don't remove out of my tree here Bergsmit 14:31, 19 March 2009 (EDT)

But Fred, you really enjoy the medieval work! I am glad that you did not delete your own personal tree from here. I am concerned though. If you have thoughts about problems in the way WeRelate works, then it would be good to discuss that. I mean it when I say that your ideas from all of your merging can help - both you and the site. Again, I hope we can talk about your ideas and the things that frustrated you! Kindly, --Jennifer (JBS66) 16:47, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

I also want to say there have been no policy changes about naming pages or alt names. Were mistakes made, possibly, but we have not changed how we view Wikipedia, English titles, or including alt names. And look at that - we got two new Dutch users today! The Dutch Users Group is growing!!!--Jennifer (JBS66) 16:52, 14 March 2009 (EDT)


medieval name templates [19 mrt 2009]

Fred, I have an idea :>) What about a medieval template? I can't PROMISE anything, but it could be a workable idea. I put together a sample here Person:Aagtje Kloosterman (1) on a random page of mine. I know, it still links to Wikipedia, but it does provide some protection against deletion and it gives the alternate names in other languages. What is interesting is that information all together like this does not seem to exist on the Internet. What are your thoughts? By the way, it wouldn't be the only information on the page, just a table at the bottom, like this Person:Matthias Hitchcock (3)--Jennifer (JBS66) 20:05, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

This is an excellent idea !

I'm really glad that you like the idea! Let me set up a page off of my userpage where we can work on it.--Jennifer (JBS66) 06:41, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
Lets talk more about this template on the talk page over here: User:JBS66/Medieval Template.--Jennifer (JBS66) 07:38, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

The next problem to solve is to make a template to alt sources ! but now I think, you can !

By the way, I have a few more ideas to discuss with you today. But, I don't want to post it all at once, because I want to clear up some of your problems one at a time. Is that OK?--Jennifer (JBS66) 06:41, 15 March 2009 (EDT)


the second is better, 2 names in stead of 1, Fred (BergSmit) 14:23, 19 March 2009 (EDT)


Admin moderators [22 mrt 2009]

...I think that it is important that not everybody can change the templates or names. It should be necessary to appoint "admin moderators" who are responsable for this. Everybody should propose changes to this moderator. The moderator should then decide ! -Fred

Regarding the moderators idea. This is a structure that we don't really have in place here. I can tell you that there is conversation about protecting pages that have content from Wikipedia (Proposal for Managed Pages). I have not kept up on this conversation, so I don't know the results.

Let me tell you why I think this template will be good. When a user is merging, sometimes it is hard to tell the good information from the bad information. Somebody may think the alt. names are not important, or are not accurate, whatever. When there is a template - the information will look more official. I really cannot picture a user deleting a template on a page.

So, would you like to try it out on a few pages? Maybe you can give me the titles of a couple of your favorite medieval people and I will work on putting in the template.--Jennifer (JBS66) 14:31, 19 March 2009 (EDT)


CHARLEMAGNE 742-814 
LOUIS PIOUS 778-840 
CHARLES THE BALD 823-877 
Judith of Flanders  ca 844-870/
Baldwin II, Count of Flanders ca 864-
Arnulf I Count of Flanders 890-965 
Hildegarde of Flanders ca 936-975 
Arnulf Count of Holland  ca 951-993 
Siegfried van HOLLAND 980-1030 
Symon Sifridsz van BREDERODE van TEYLINGEN 

Gerrit van TEYLINGEN †1100 Gerrit van TEYLINGEN Hugo van TEYLINGEN †1172

Willem van Teijlingen ca 1156-ca 1203

Dirk I van Theylingen van BREDERODE ca 1180-1245/ Floris van BREDERODE ca 1225-1306/ Floris V Brederode van der Doirtoghe van HOLLAND Meijna van Doirtoghe van HOLLAND /1308--Bergsmit 14:35, 19 March 2009 (EDT)


False medieval network [22 mrt 2009]

I don't understand why WeRelate is not finding all duplicates when I am looking for them. I sometimes cannot find my own pages back ! Also the network is not working properly I have hundreds of pages in common with more users then mentioned in my network ! Manually I can find the duplicates and common watched pages but not automatically ! -Bergsmit

Yes, I see what you mean. I believe that both problems you describe are related. Network is working for me JBS66, but when I try Bergsmit, I can see your problem. My theory is that this happened when you deleted and then restored your userpage. I posted a note to Dallan. Something similar happened to me before when I renamed a tree. He was able to fix it pretty quickly. I will let you know when I hear back from him.--Jennifer (JBS66) 07:27, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

As you know I tried to improve the data in the medieval space. I discovered that sometimes there are more then 10 times the same person and or family but different named, being there for a longtime and not proposed to merge or to unify their names. When I use the search function then I have to open a second page to compare and merge. It should be useful if Dallan should make possible that the search pages have direct the possibility to compare and merge, just as we are searching parents or spouses ! Fred (BergSmit) 09:31, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

Unfortunately, I am not sure how much work Dallan will do to improve this. This is because he is working harder to PREVENT this from ever happening again. He is working on a program that we should see in about 1 week. This program will change the way GEDCOMS are allowed to be uploaded. (So, if you are thinking of uploading your Medieval Genealogy GEDCOM again - we should talk!)

It's a little hard to explain, but the easy explanation is that people will be forced to merge WHILE they are uploading their GEDCOM. This way, duplicate pages will not be created.

Let me think more about your ideas, and I will let you know if I come up with anything creative!--Jennifer (JBS66) 09:39, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

Here we have a similar system, but it works only for 100% matches (names, birth, death) and problems start just when there are differences ! Fred (BergSmit) 14:19, 18 March 2009 (EDT)


I have a lot of ( thousands !) watched medieval pages in common among others with Irm03063 (http://werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Network&user=Bergsmit&relateduser=Jrm03063), but they are not in my network ! Fred Bergman 14:53, 19 March 2009 (EDT)

This is the problem that we talked about yesterday on your userpage. I posted a note to Dallan about it, but have not heard back from him yet. I think it happened when you deleted your userpage. This is probably something Dallan needs to fix from his end.--Jennifer (JBS66) 15:00, 19 March 2009 (EDT)


the problem was there allready before deleting and restoring my userpage.

this is my network 14 users http://werelate.org/wiki/Special:Network/Bergsmit

these are the users watching Charlemagne Watching Page

CTfrog Coret Barak4u Okrick Jolayne Allwayslearning Rjfoxx Jameslhahn Genealogist84 IRelate Hendrik Bystillwaters Barrylodge1975 Johnroy98 Jeffhomes Gtcurtis Jrm03063 Scot Claudiakerr Rwillimon G.h.vandoorn Drewwalkerski Gregobhte1 Corvino3 Ravencrest Herschel Lascorpia64 Feenerty Biebuyck Mperozziello Lkm02196 Bergsmit Stephanielindhardt Fofofo

but most of them are not in my network, perhaps because not all watches the latest renaming of charlemagne ?--Fred Bergman 15:46, 19 March 2009 (EDT)

Try something for me to help problem solve - Go to the Person:Charlemagne (1) page, and make some kind of edit - add an alt name or some other valid edit. Then save it. I want to see if any names are added to your Network after that. This still may be a problem that Dallan needs to fix, but you have done a great job giving the details of the problem!--Jennifer (JBS66) 16:00, 19 March 2009 (EDT)

I just added the source www.kareldegrote.nl and deleted alt name karel de grote (was double) Fred Bergman 16:10, 19 March 2009 (EDT)


my network is unchanged ! 14 persons--Fred Bergman 16:11, 19 March 2009 (EDT)

I noticed that! This helps to provide another piece to the puzzle - and you like kruiswoordpuzzels too! I'll give Dallan these details. Thank you for being patient with me!--Jennifer (JBS66) 16:15, 19 March 2009 (EDT)


I think I found the problem: if I watch a page and another user watches the same page, but a renamed version then you see the page in common if you use the url http://werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Network&user=Bergsmit&relateduser=USERNAME, but in the network page http://werelate.org/wiki/Special:Network/OWN USERNAME you don't see the user with common, but renamed, pages !--Fred Bergman 18:00, 20 March 2009 (EDT)

I wonder if you can you put together a specific example for me? Maybe like this:

  • Bergsmit is watching page: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Family:Gijsbrecht Van Vianen and Beatrix Van Egmond (1) Family:Gottfried Ahaus and Kunigunde Oldenburg (1) Family:Gottfried Julich and Elisabeth Kleve (1) Family:Gunzel Schwerin and Margarethe Mecklenburg (1) Family:Haakon Haakonsson Of Norway and Richiza Birgersdotter of Sweden (1) Family:Haakon Haakonsson Prince Of and Richiza Birgersdotter Princess Of (1) Family:Heinrich Brunswick Grubenhagen and Agnes Thuringia (1) Family:Heinrich Henneberg and Judith Brandenburg (1) Family:Heinrich Hesse and Adelheid Brunswick Luneburg (1) Family:Heinrich Holstein and Heilwig Bronckhorst (1) Family:Heinrich Holstein and Ingeburg Mecklenburg (1) Family:Heinrich Mecklenburg and Agnes Lindau-Ruppin (1) Family:Heinrich Mecklenburg and Anastasie Pomerania (1) Family:Heinrich Mecklenburg and Anna Saxony Wittenberg (1) Family:Heinrich Oldenburg Wildehausen and Elisabeth Tecklenburg (1) Family:Heinrich Waldeck and Mathilde Arnsberg (1) Family:Heinrich Werle-Gustrow and Mechtilde Pomerania (1) Family:Heinrich Werle-Gustrow and Richiza Birgersdotter Princess Of (1) Family:Heinrich Windeck and Agnes Marck (1) Family:Henryk Glogau and Mathilde Brunswick-Grubenhagen (1) Family:Jan Arkel and Johanna Julich (1) Family:Jan Egmond and Guyote Amstel (1) Family:Jan Egmond and Maria Arkel (1) Family:Jean Brabant and Marie Evreux (1) Family:Jean Brabant and Marie Evreux (2) Family:Jean Dampierre and Marie d'Artois (1) Family:Jean France and Bonne of Bohemia (1) Family:Jean France and Jeanne of Auvergne (1) Family:Jean France and Jutte Bohemia (1) Family:Johan Brabant and Margaret England (1) Family:Johan Van Luxemburg and Elisabeth Van Bohemen (1) Family:Johann Brandenburg and Jutte Saxony (1) Family:Johann Mecklenburg and Luitgard Henneberg (1) Family:Johann Mecklenburg and Luitgard Henneberg (2) Family:Johann Nassau Dillenburg and Margarethe Mark (1) Family:Johann Oldenburg and Richza Hoya (1) Family:John Somervile and Unknown (1) Family:John Stewart and Unknown (3) Family:John V, Duke of Brittany and Joan of Holland (1) Family:John of Bohemia and Elisabeth of Bohemia (1) Family:Leopold Austria and Verde Visconti (1) Family:Louis Flanders and Marguerite Brabant (1) Family:Louis I of Flanders and Margaret I, Countess of Burgundy (1) Family:Louis I of Flanders and Marguerite France (1) Family:Ludwig Bavaria and Mathilde Austria (1) Family:Ludwig Holy Roman Empire and Beatrycza Glogau (1) Family:Ludwig Holy Roman Empire and Margaretha Holland (1) Family:Ludwik Brieg Luben and Agnieszka Glogau Sagan (1) Family:Neil Campbell and Mariota Cameron (1) Family:Otto Lippe and Irmgard Mark (1) Family:Otto Pomerania Stettin and Elisabeth Holstein (1) Family:Otto Pomerania Stettin and Katharine Pomerania (1) Family:Otto Ravensberg and Margarethe Windeck (1) Family:Philippe France and Marguerite Flanders (1) Family:Philips Van Wassenaar and Maria Van Egmond (1) Family:Reinoud Gueldres and Marie Brabant (1) Family:Robert Stewart and Unknown (1) Family:Rudolf Saxony Wittenberg and Unknown (1) Family:Simon Lippe and Adelheid Waldeck (1) Family:Stephen II, Duke of Bavaria and Elizabeth Sicily (1) Family:Thomas Isaac and Maud Scotland (1) Family:Vaclav Bohemia And Of and Jutte Austria (1) Family:Wilhelm Holland and Catharina Gerritsdochter (1) Family:Willem Van Gulik En and Maria Van Gelre (1) Family:Wouter Egmond and Beatrijs Doortoge (2) Family:Wouter Van Egmond and Beatrijs Van De Doirtogne (1)

  • User Holyhabanero is watching page: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Family:Gijsbrecht Van Vianen and Beatrix Van Egmond (1) Family:Gottfried Ahaus and Kunigunde Oldenburg (1) Family:Gottfried Julich and Elisabeth Kleve (1) Family:Gunzel Schwerin and Margarethe Mecklenburg (1) Family:Haakon Haakonsson Of Norway and Richiza Birgersdotter of Sweden (1) Family:Haakon Haakonsson Prince Of and Richiza Birgersdotter Princess Of (1) Family:Heinrich Brunswick Grubenhagen and Agnes Thuringia (1) Family:Heinrich Henneberg and Judith Brandenburg (1) Family:Heinrich Hesse and Adelheid Brunswick Luneburg (1) Family:Heinrich Holstein and Heilwig Bronckhorst (1) Family:Heinrich Holstein and Ingeburg Mecklenburg (1) Family:Heinrich Mecklenburg and Agnes Lindau-Ruppin (1) Family:Heinrich Mecklenburg and Anastasie Pomerania (1) Family:Heinrich Mecklenburg and Anna Saxony Wittenberg (1) Family:Heinrich Oldenburg Wildehausen and Elisabeth Tecklenburg (1) Family:Heinrich Waldeck and Mathilde Arnsberg (1) Family:Heinrich Werle-Gustrow and Mechtilde Pomerania (1) Family:Heinrich Werle-Gustrow and Richiza Birgersdotter Princess Of (1) Family:Heinrich Windeck and Agnes Marck (1) Family:Henryk Glogau and Mathilde Brunswick-Grubenhagen (1) Family:Jan Arkel and Johanna Julich (1) Family:Jan Egmond and Guyote Amstel (1) Family:Jan Egmond and Maria Arkel (1) Family:Jean Brabant and Marie Evreux (1) Family:Jean Brabant and Marie Evreux (2) Family:Jean Dampierre and Marie d'Artois (1) Family:Jean France and Bonne of Bohemia (1) Family:Jean France and Jeanne of Auvergne (1) Family:Jean France and Jutte Bohemia (1) Family:Johan Brabant and Margaret England (1) Family:Johan Van Luxemburg and Elisabeth Van Bohemen (1) Family:Johann Brandenburg and Jutte Saxony (1) Family:Johann Mecklenburg and Luitgard Henneberg (1) Family:Johann Mecklenburg and Luitgard Henneberg (2) Family:Johann Nassau Dillenburg and Margarethe Mark (1) Family:Johann Oldenburg and Richza Hoya (1) Family:John Somervile and Unknown (1) Family:John Stewart and Unknown (3) Family:John V, Duke of Brittany and Joan of Holland (1) Family:John of Bohemia and Elisabeth of Bohemia (1) Family:Leopold Austria and Verde Visconti (1) Family:Louis Flanders and Marguerite Brabant (1) Family:Louis I of Flanders and Margaret I, Countess of Burgundy (1) Family:Louis I of Flanders and Marguerite France (1) Family:Ludwig Bavaria and Mathilde Austria (1) Family:Ludwig Holy Roman Empire and Beatrycza Glogau (1) Family:Ludwig Holy Roman Empire and Margaretha Holland (1) Family:Ludwik Brieg Luben and Agnieszka Glogau Sagan (1) Family:Neil Campbell and Mariota Cameron (1) Family:Otto Lippe and Irmgard Mark (1) Family:Otto Pomerania Stettin and Elisabeth Holstein (1) Family:Otto Pomerania Stettin and Katharine Pomerania (1) Family:Otto Ravensberg and Margarethe Windeck (1) Family:Philippe France and Marguerite Flanders (1) Family:Philips Van Wassenaar and Maria Van Egmond (1) Family:Reinoud Gueldres and Marie Brabant (1) Family:Robert Stewart and Unknown (1) Family:Rudolf Saxony Wittenberg and Unknown (1) Family:Simon Lippe and Adelheid Waldeck (1) Family:Stephen II, Duke of Bavaria and Elizabeth Sicily (1) Family:Thomas Isaac and Maud Scotland (1) Family:Vaclav Bohemia And Of and Jutte Austria (1) Family:Wilhelm Holland and Catharina Gerritsdochter (1) Family:Willem Van Gulik En and Maria Van Gelre (1) Family:Wouter Egmond and Beatrijs Doortoge (2) Family:Wouter Van Egmond and Beatrijs Van De Doirtogne (1)

bedankt (is that right?)--Jennifer (JBS66) 18:11, 20 March 2009 (EDT)

bedankt is right ! but usualy I say bij voorbaat dank (thanks in advance)

http://werelate.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Network&user=Bergsmit&relateduser=Jrm03063

http://werelate.org/wiki/Special:Network/Jrm03063

http://werelate.org/wiki/Special:Network/bergsmit

to be seen was we have 14 watched pages in common, I added to watch Berenger II of Italy and Willa of Tuscany (1) and now this is also to be seen, but in both our networks doesn't change anything, I don't belong to network Irmo3063 and she doesn't belong to network bergsmit

met verschuldigde hoogachting, bij voorbaat dankend voor uw zeer gewaardeerde medewerking, verblijf ik, uw dienstwillige, Fred Bergman 03:46, 21 March 2009 (EDT) ;-)

Well, Graag gedaan! :~) Dallan responded to the question that I posted about this (see here under User's Network View). He too doubts that it happened because of deleting your Userpage. It appears that it will be a few days before he can look into fixing it. I will post a note suggesting that Dallan look here on this page for your additional details. Zeer goed werk! This is likely a site-wide problem that you found here (we call computer "problems" like that a - bug).


On another note - about the template. I was waiting for an answer for Dallan on one question before I could proceed. Now that I have that, I can begin working on the template - probably not until Monday though. groetjes--Jennifer (JBS66) 06:42, 21 March 2009 (EDT)


I think you've hit the nail on the head. The bug has to do with page renaming/redirecting not being accounted for in the network. What I plan to do late next week (once the new gedcom upload is finally in place) is to re-calculate your network either once a day or each time you visit your network page. That should fix the problem.--Dallan 00:45, 22 March 2009 (EDT)


Thank you in advance !--Fred Bergman 16:56, 22 March 2009 (EDT)

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