Person talk:Samuel Scott (31)

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Do not merge this page with Person:Samuel_Scott_(54).




Original records [1 December 2013]

Some corrections and additions to what you have here...

1) Transcriptions of Samuel Scott's importation records are erroneous. I obtained a copy of the actual record from the Orange County Circuit Court Clerk. It reads as follows: "Samuel Scott proved his rights to land... May 22d 1740... Samuel Scott came into Court and made oath that he imported himself, Ann, Jane, & John Scott from Ireland to Philadelphia & from thence into this Colony & that this is the first time of his proving his & their rights in order to obtain Land which is ordered to be certified." [Orange County, Virginia Order Book 2 - 1739-1741, pp. 158-159] As you know, his wife was Ann, so it seems likely they were married in Ireland (or Scotland), and other than the age differences of his known children, I don't see any evidence that she is a second wife. Jane was Samuel's mother, and she is also mentioned in his will. John was his son.

2) The original will as written by Samuel Scott is dated "the 16th of March 1748/9" and was proved in court 17 May 1749. The first notation is dual dating and highlights the difference between the Julian and Gregorian calendars, which did not officially change in England and the colonies for another year or so with the Calendar Act of 1750. In any case, his date of death can be narrowed to a smaller timeframe in early 1749.

3) The son Samuel was born in 1749, the same year that the elder Samuel died. This is clear from another record in Chalkley: "AUGUST 18, 1767. Page (216) Saml. Scott, aged 18 years, orphan of Saml. Scott, decd., chose Skidmore Mousey guardian." [book 1, p. 136]

4) Samuel Scott's children and their birth dates can be inferred from various records...

John, prob. b. abt 1727. He was old enough to buy land in 1748, which at that time would have implied he was 21, although the land grant record (as transcribed in Chalkley) states that he was Samuel's son, so maybe Samuel sponsored the purchase. But it appears John was also old enough to have children by 1746. The baptismal records of the Rev. John Craig list two children of John Scott: Elizabeth (bapt. May 1746) and Abigail (bapt. June 1748). I believe this John is also the father of my 5g grandfather, Samuel Scott (1750-1833). Rev. Craig's records end in Sep 1749.

Mary, b. abt 1740 (bapt. Dec 1740) [Rev. Craig]. She was married to Skidmore Muncy by 1762. "Hook vs. Munsey.--Daniel Smith deposes August 23, 1762, that being chosen guardian for Jean Scot, sister to Skidmore Munsey's wife." [Chalkley, book 1, p. 329]

Jean, b. abt 1743. She was 16 in 1759. "NOVEMBER 22, 1759. Page (320) Jane Scott, aged 16, chose Danl. Smith guardian." [Chalkley, book 1, p. 85]

George, b. abt 1747 (bapt. Jun 1747) [Rev. Craig] He probably died around the same time as his father (not listed in the will), or otherwise before May 1759. "Page 311.--17th May. 1759. Samuel Scott's estate settlement, by Robert Scott and Robert Hooks, executors... 1 coffin for Samuel Scott; 1 coffin for George Scott..." [Chalkley, book 3, p. 53]

Samuel, b. 1749 (see above)--Drwsctt 17:04, 27 November 2013 (UTC)


Perfect, great info, thanks for the update! I agree with everything except I think you have son John's birthdate a few years too early. It creates a 13-year gap between him and the next closest sibling, which is unlikely. The fact that his father signed for him (sponsored) the purchase shortly before Samuel died indicates that John was likely still a minor, so I've placed his approx. birthdate at "abt. 1735", which is likely more accurate given the birthdates you've estimated for his siblings. Let me know if you concur on this, or if additional records and discussion are needed.

I've updated Samuel's Person and Family page with your additional information. Please feel free to update any other Augusta families with records such as this in the future.

Thanks again and best regards,

Jim:)


Thanks! I don't know if Samuel somehow sponsored the land purchase in 1748, or if their relationship was simply noted in the grant, or even if Chalkley himself added that note. I should try to get a copy of that original record.

Rev. Craig's baptism records list two children of a John Scott: Elizabeth (1746) and Abigail (1748). That John Scott would have been born by 1728 at least. I had been under the assumption that he was Samuel's son. But another perusal of Chalkley confirms there was at least one other John Scott in the area and with children at that time - cursed common surnames!

And there is this record that I had somehow overlooked: "Page 97.--20th March, 1755. Daniel Harrison's bond as guardian (chosen) to John Scot, orphan of Saml. Scot, with sureties David Stewart, Robert McClenachan." [Chalkley, book 3, p. 38] I don't find the names of the bond securers in any other records for the Scott family, which could cause doubts. But this is most likely still the same John and Samuel. I believe 16 was the common age for choosing a guardian, so that would put his birth closer to 1738 or 1739. And that honestly makes a lot more sense in context with everything else.

To be honest, I think my judgement was a little clouded by the fact I am looking for a John Scott in Augusta County that was old enough to have children by 1750. A biography of my 5g grandfather, Samuel Scott (1750-1833), states that he "was born on a farm near Staunton" and that his father was named John Scott and from Scotland. It was fairly easy to place the "Cub Run" property only about 10-15 miles northeast of Staunton using landmarks, and that along with the recent importation from Ireland (and probably Scotland before) makes this family of Scotts the only probable candidates. I also have a relatively close Y-DNA match with a likely descendant of John's. And there is strong evidence of relationships between my Scott family and this one [ex: Skidmore Muncy married Samuel's daughter, Mary, and he was guardian to Samuel's son, Samuel. Skidmore Muncy was also the uncle of my Samuel Scott's wife, Alice Muncy]. It is entirely plausible that my Samuel is the same one that was orphaned by the Samuel in this article the same year he died (1749). The biography was informed by "my" Samuel's children, and they may very possibly have confused their grand uncle John with a grandfather who died before his son was even born.

Finally, at the risk of seeming too argumentative... I have my doubts that Samuel's father was Anthony Scott. The cited records state that Samuel was a landowner in Spotsylvania County in 1734, and all of the referenced land of Anthony's is near there or along the Rappahannock River. However, Samuel gave oath in Orange / Augusta County in 1740 that he had come there from Ireland through Philadelphia and that he had never obtained land in the Virginia Colony. His mother Jean/Jane was imported with him, which would imply that his father was probably deceased by then.

Thanks,

Drew Scott


Thanks Drew, I've updated John Scott's estimated birthdate per the record you cited (I had missed that one too). As far as Samuel's reputed father Anthony, if you look at the records on Anthony's person page, there are certainly several familiar names that ended up settling in the area surrounding the South Branch Shenandoah area that make a case that his father knew and was familiar with George Hume and James Genn (who surveyed land for many early Augusta settlers), Gabriel Jones and Robert Green, both early land speculators and settlers who amassed land in several areas of early Augusta [and previously Orange] County.

I've also added a few records to Samuel's Person Page, many of which list Samuel and Anthony Scott, but two of which may be of interest as to if Samuel's father is indeed Anthony, and brother of Robert. The first, is from "Orange County Road Orders", as follows:

23 November 1744, O.S. p. 229-A - Ordered that the Road Petitioned for by Henry Downs Gent and Viewed and Lay’d of by George Anderson Henry Dowley and Alexr. Thompson be allowed and that the same be Cleared and Kept in repair and its further ordered that the Male Labouring Tythables in this precinct (To Wit) From the road Below Samuell Guys to Capt John Smiths on the north mountain to Saml Scotts on the Peeked Mountain Do Clear the same under the instructions of Capt Robert Scott who is appointed Overseer of the same.
This sure appears to be Samuel Scott and his brother Robert.....

The second record is a listing from the estate of John Lucas in "Orange County Will Book 2, 1744-1778", Dorman, pg. 61, in July 1751:

Payments made to Robt. Scott (on account of Saml. Scott, dec.), Dr. Walker, Richard Vernon, Col. Taylor, Mr. Secretary Nelson, Hon. Wm. Byrd Esq., Wiliam Lucas Jur., John Wade.
The interesting thing about this record is that "our Samuel Scott" had just died in 1749, and it appears that John Lucas may have been indebted to Samuel prior to Samuel's death, which the payment had to be made to the executor of Samuel's estate, which as we know just happened to be his brother Robert!!

I'll also note that there is no will or estate record for a "duplicate" Samuel Scott in Orange County records, only the reference to Samuel being deceased in John Lucas' estate record. Also, the area that Samuel Scott and his brother Robert were located had many settlers that had lands and records in both Augusta and Orange County [which was previously Spotsylvania], explaining why many had records listed in both counties, as did Samuel and his brother Robert.

Your comments and evaluation of this information would be appreciated.

Best regards,

Jim:)


The lands that Anthony and his son Samuel owned were at the little fork of the Rappahannock River. This is about 10 miles northeast of the town of Culpeper in Culpeper County, which was formed from part of Orange County in 1749. I looked for Samuel's will there. I didn't find it online, but I did find a copy of Anthony's will on Virginia Pioneers...

Anthony's will was written 7 Jan 1754 (or more probably 1764, but it looks more like "fifty four"). He names his wife Jane, son Samuel, and some daughters. Wife Jane and son Samuel were named as executors, and Samuel delivered the will to the Court, where it was proved in May 1764.

As you know, the Samuel Scott in this article died in 1749, so he couldn't possibly be the son of Anthony Scott.

There is no question that Samuel and Robert were brothers, and that they had a sister Jean whom married Robert Hook. I believe George was their brother too. Again, it appears to me that their father died in Ireland/Scotland or en route and that their mother, Jean, imported with Samuel in 1740.

Having fun!

Drew


So there WERE two Samuel Scott's! Since I don't have access to Virginia Pioneers, can you please list Anthony's will below so I can add it to Anthony's Person Page? I'll re-do his family and un-attach Samuel, Robert, Jean and George and put them as children of "Unknown Scott". We still don't know what happened to the "other" Samuel Scott that was Anthony's son, I'm puzzled why there were no additional records in Orange County after the other Samuel died... No records of him in Orange County, perhaps he went to Culpeper, or some other neighboring county (perhaps same county as where Anthony's will is)?

Your thoughts?

Best regards,

Jim


I would assume this Samuel could be found in Culpeper County as well. Anthony's will states that his wife is to have use of the plantation until her death or marriage, and that Samuel is to then inherit the land. Land and tax records in Culpeper would probably help establish his residence.

Virginia Pioneers has a copy of the original will, not a transcript or abstract. The original can be found in Will Book A, 1749-1770, pp. 371-372. It was proved on 17 May 1764. It names wife Jane, son Samuel, and daughters Frances (wife of Abraham Cooper), Elizabeth Corbin, and Ann Buck. Witnesses: Rawley Corbin, Frances Corbin, Isaac(?) Wall. Samuel Scott, exr. and bond.

I did find an abstract on another site, but it has "Thos." instead of "Samuel" as the son, which is clearly wrong. Samuel's name is mentioned at least twice in the will, and it is spelled quite clearly. The record further states, "This last Will and Testament of Anthony Scott dec'd was Exhibited to the Court by Samuel Scott one of the Exrs therein name and was proved..."

Drew


Thanks, I think I've separated the two families. Let me know if you see anything amiss. Thanks for your help.:)

Best regards,

Jim

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