Person:John Monger (1)

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John Charles Monger
b.Nov 1764 Virginia
m. 21 Nov 1741
  1. Maria Margretha Manger1742 -
  2. Johannes Monger1745 - bet 1790
  3. Anna Barbara Manger1747 -
  4. Anna Eva Manger1748 - Abt 1830
  5. Henry Monger1754 - aft 1812
  6. David Monger1756 - aft 1802
  7. Mary Mongerest 1760 - 1840
  8. Henry William Monger1762 -
  9. John Charles Monger1764 - 1794
m. Abt 1786
  1. Joseph Munger1787 - 1859
  2. Susan Mungerabt 1789 - 1794
  3. Margaret Munger1791 - bet 1860 and 1870
  4. Elizabeth Munger1793 - 1873
m. abt 1793
Facts and Events
Name John Charles Monger
Alt Name[1] Charles Monger
Baptismal Name[9] Johann Karl Manger
Gender Male
Birth[8] Nov 1764 Virginia
Christening[8] 10 Feb 1765 McGaheysville, Rockingham, Virginia, United StatesPeaked Mountain Church
Marriage Abt 1786 Grosse Ile, Western Territory, United Statesto Christina Sycks
Divorce Abt 1793 probably informal, in keeping with First Nations tradition
from Christina Sycks
Marriage abt 1793 to Catherine Honn
Death? 20 Aug 1794 Maumee, Northwest Territory, United StatesBattle of Fallen Timbers

John Charles Monger (who used the name Charles) moved with his father and other family members from Virginia to Kentucky about 1779[1]. They were all taken into captivity by the Indians during a raid on Ruddell's Station on June 24, 1780[2].

Charles is said to have been married to two women while in captivity, Christena Six/Sycks and Catherine Honn, both of whom outlived him. There are various theories regarding the order in which he married these women and which of his wives was the mother of his son Joseph. The earliest sources appear to be an interview regarding Catherine Honn and a letter from a nephew of Christina Sycks, both many decades after Charles died[4][5], neither of which provides a lot of clarity, but both of which provide hints. Another early source[6] is the statement that Catherine Honn was identified as his "widowed wife" after his death.

A quote from a "Shawnee Heritage web page" (not apparently available online any more, and probably information from Shawnee Heritage), states that Christina Sycks was his first wife[7]. The quote suggests that both Christina and Charles ("a Chalakatha man") were adopted into the Shawnee nation - as such, Charles could have easily divorced Christina, as was not uncommon amongst First Nation tribes.

The letter from Christina's nephew Daniel[5], while apparently confused about who held Christina, states that her family came to take her away, and was successful the second time they tried. This may have been when she left Charles (and he subsequently remarried), or after his death, as the letter speculates and consistent with the Shawnee Heritage quote (about 1795)[7].

The interview regarding Catherine Honn identifies Charles as the father of Joseph Sr., without stating that Catherine was Joseph's mother[4]. This omission supports the theory that Christina was Joseph's mother.

Thus, a reasonable theory appears to be that Charles first married Christina Sycks, who was the mother of all his children, divorced her about 1793 or 1794, then married Catherine Honn and was killed shortly thereafter.

An additional note: Christina left the Shawnee about 1795, taking her two surviving daughters, but not her son, who would have been about 8 years old. It is possible that the Shawnee would not allow her to take her son, as he would have been considered part of the tribe, and well on his way to becoming a hunter/warrior.

References
  1. 1.0 1.1 Chalkley, Lyman. Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish settlement in Virginia: Extracted from the Original Court Records of Augusta County, 1745-1800. (Rosslyn, Virginia: The Commonwealth Printing Company, 1912-1913 in Three Volumes), 2:60-61.
  2. Ruddell's Station].
  3.   Morgan, Lynn A., and Toronto Branch United Empire Loyalists' Association of Canada. Loyalist Lineages of Canada, 1783-1983. (Agincourt, Ontario: Generation Press, c1984-c1991), p. 793.

    'm 1781 Christena Margaret SYCKS b 1764 Greene Co PA d 1844 bur Wood Co WV. Issue: Joseph, Susan, Margaret, Elizabeth.'

  4. 4.0 4.1 Draper's interview with Mrs. Ledwell, Miss Ferris, and Joseph Munger Jr., August 5, 1863, in Lyman C. Draper Manuscript Collection, 17S:200.

    'Mrs. Honn and daughter ­ latter 18 ­ were taken prisoners at the capture of Ruddell's and Martin's Stations, Kentucky, 1780 ... She married first Charles Munger (father of Joseph Munger Sr., now deceased) who was killed in Wayne's battle; and then she married Joseph Ferris, and died ten years ago some 85 years old. ...'

    This citation is via a Family Tree at Ancestry.com, and might not be 100% faithful to the original.

  5. 5.0 5.1 letter to Lyman C Draper, quoted in Anderson/Dinwiddie RootsWeb tree.

    'Mr. Lyman C. Daper [sic]
    Sir, yours of the 3 of Decr at hand. 1st Phillip Six was my Uncle. I aint positive But I think his fathers name was Coonrod I don’t have mutch Reckerlection a bout him he was found Dead in the woods a setting up a Gainst a Tree my fathers name was John he was Brother of Phillips. 2. Phillip married Celsers Daughter I don’t Reclerlect what her first name was I dident know but one of Phillips children he come up some time after his father moved to Mmaches territory Celsers lived their some where to he went Back and think went to Ill But aint certain. #. Cristena was Phillipses cister the woman that the Indians Took She was Taken late in the Evening when she was A milkingh ther was no others taken at that Time she wasn’t Grown when she was Taken I don’t know how old she was they took her Down to New Orleans and sold her to the French the Frenchman had her some Time her people went after her she wouldn’t come the first Time then went ther went the second Time and got her But I don’t know how But I think the Frenchman Died I don’t kno wherther she fetched her children or not She never married any more as I know of I seen her after she come Back.
    She seamed like she dident want to talk to a white man I killed A aligator when I was their in 1804 I was Back on Holland Creek Holland Creek [both crossed out] Dunkard Creek called By the Indians Crooked Creek I was on Dunkard Creek in 1800 as well as I reckerlect I think the Witzels and Phillip was Cousins But I don’t know for certain how the kin come when Phillips cister was taken the woods was full of Indians their Towns wasn’t A Great ways off
    Hs Heaven Kindly Bless You.
    D[illegible]l [Daniel?] Six
    Grand sin of David Six I think this is a bout all that I know if you want to know Any thing that you think I can Give you any information write me and I will do so. '

  6. Christena Six, in Anderson/Dinwiddie RootsWeb tree.

    note from Jim Sellars 'Charles died in 1794, but "Catherine Honn" was named as his widowed wife.' (Jim believes that Catherine was his first wife and he split from her and then married Christena, but that the split must not have been legal, since Catherine was named as his widow.)

  7. 7.0 7.1 Christena Six, in Anderson/Dinwiddie RootsWeb tree.

    'Found a notation in a Shawnee Heritage web page that sayd "Christina Sycks was adop[t]ed about 1772; returned to whites about 1795' in 1777 "first wife of a Chalakatha man."
    v[icki] a[nderson]'

    Two of the years in the quote appear to be wrong by a decade, as Christena was abducted in Apr 1781, and most sources believe she married Monger about 1786 or 1787.

  8. 8.0 8.1 Virginia, United States. Virginia Births and Christenings, 1853-1917. (FamilySearch Record Search).

    John Charles Manger (son of William and Susanna Manger), born November 1764, christened 10 February 1765 in Peaked Mountain Church, McGaheysville, Rockingham, Virginia

  9. .

    MANGER, JOHANN KARL (1764-1794) Charles was born in Augusta (now Rockingham) Co., Virginia. He followed his parents to Kentucky in 1779 and served in Captain Isaac Ruddell's company. After his capture he was taken to Detroit where he joined the rangers. He settled at Grosse Ile about 1787. He married first to Catherine Hon and had one son. He later married Christena Sycks about 1790 and had three daughters, one of whom died young. He died in 1794 during the Battle of Fallen Timbers.

    http://www.frontierfolk.net/ramsha_research/captivesite.html