Family talk:John Libby and Unknown (1)

Do not merge this page with Family:John Libby and Mary Unknown (2).

From John Libby and Unknown (5): Children [27 February 2008]

My theory is that all children born between 1635 and 1647 belong to Judith. (I have not found the name Sarah anywhere other than written in pencil in my own family records, but Judith was listed a number of times on Familysearch.org). This is because the earliest marriage date I have found for John and Mary was 1648, although it was likely later than that. There is a gap between the children's births from 1653-1657, which is the largest gap between children. That seems like a likely time for a man to lose a wife and marry another. I think we can also safely say that Matthew and Daniel belong to Mary because they are both born after 1662, which is the latest marriage date I found for John and Mary. It was also specifically noted in one of the references.

--Brannon 18:26, 27 February 2008 (EST)

I just found that Judith's death date was entered as 1661 on werelate already, and I found another reference to it on familysearch.org. So I think all the children are Judith's except for Matthew and Daniel, as stated in the Genealogical and Family History of the State of Maine. The only child in real question is Mary. Her birth was "about 1661". Perhaps Judith died giving birth to her, or the birth could be 1660 or 1662. It still seems most likely to me that she is a child of Judith, however.--Brannon 18:30, 27 February 2008 (EST)

From John Libby and Unknown (5): Structure of this page is all wrong [2 October 2008]

The two wives should not be listed as alternates. John Libby should have two marriages, each with one wife. Those children known to belong to the first wife (all sons except Matthew and Daniel plus most daughters) should be in that marriage. Those children know to belong to the second wife (Matthew and Daniel, maybe a daughter) should be attached to the second marriage. Those that are unsure (possibly Mary) are the place to use alternates. When the truth is uncovered, the wrong one can then be removed.

Browsing familysearch.org and picking the date that feels right to you is not genealogy, by the way.

--Jrich 22:31, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

From John Libby and Unknown (5): Identifying first wife [20 September 2009]

[moved this comment from being a note on the family page to here, because I wanted to start a discussion of this. --Jrich 10:17, 23 March 2009 (EDT)]

User Brannon has a source that says John's first wife was named Sarah. The information was obtained by relatives from "Cumberland Co. Me, County History". Other users have his first wife's name as Judith.

It would be very good if Brannon's sources could be cited here, because others would like to assess these sources. The importance of John Libby as the original immigrant has caused this to be the subject of considerable study, and most of those studies seem to indicate that nothing is known about John's first wife beyond her existence.

Previous comments on this Talk page hint at counting entries on familysearch.org which is not a valid methodology, since it only takes one person to be right, and many people can all drink the same kool-aid. On the Family page, the History of Rye, NH is mentioned as a source. This reference is a little ambiguous, but assuming that refers to Source:History of the town of Rye, New Hampshire : from its discovery and settlement to December 31, 1903, that source does not mention the name of John's wife, nor even indicate that he had two wives. As cited in source Family:John Libby and Unknown (5)#S1, the Source:Genealogical and family history of the state of Maine explicitly says the name of his first wife is Unknown. I tried searching (since no page number is given) Source:History of Cumberland Co., Maine : with illustrations and biographical sketches of its prominent men and pioneers (645106) and did not find this topic discussed, though the copy on Repository:Heritage Quest Online is missing its last 100 pages, including the index. The most comprehensive Libby source, Source:The Libby family in America, 1602-1881, p. 25, echoes the quotation cited in the Gen. Hist. Maine previously mentioned. I have reviewed in the past, but cannot at this time re-review, Source:Genealogical dictionary of Maine and New Hampshire (33860). However, since one of the contributing authors is the author of the Libby Family in America, I feel it is reasonable to trust my memory that there is no big relevation on this topic there.

To assess the validity of Judith or Sarah as a name, I would need to know what these hypotheses are based on. Given the long-standing lack of evidence on this issue, a source cited to justify the name of John's first wife would probably need to reference, if not quote, some contemporaneous document providing his first wife's name, such as a deed, or diary entry, church record, etc. It would seem that guesses provided by secondary sources, perhaps based on presumed family connections or naming patterns of the children, etc., will not really further the discussion on this issue. --Jrich 10:17, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Do not merge this page with Family:John Libby and Mary Unknown (2).